Jump to content

3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018


Payam

Recommended Posts

30 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Payam,

Do you really think there was no growth? Even with you spreading you hairline apart making it look worse you can tell the growth is obvious. Also, your growth is slow, but steady and is improving every month something that can not be denied. The problem areas still have several months to grow in, I think it would be appropriate to at least wait the full time before making a final judgement.

Wish i could show it to you in real life, the left side is so sparse i cant slick my hair, it is exactly as bad as the pictures show

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Payam,

Do you really think there was no growth? Even with you spreading you hairline apart making it look worse you can tell the growth is obvious. Also, your growth is slow, but steady and is improving every month something that can not be denied. The problem areas still have several months to grow in, I think it would be appropriate to at least wait the full time before making a final judgement.

Man, I’m sorry but I feel Melvin can be a little too optimistic at times, to a fault. Yes, we need to be encouraging to other members but when we start giving others false hope when something objectively went wrong, it can really mess with one’s physche. We’re all adults here. Let’s try and be a little more realistic with each other so the correct next steps can be made. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
38 minutes ago, Payam said:

Kind of mean calling me unhinged mate, lol. I am voicing my concerns about certain aspects of their methods, yes I am emotional, I went into this with so much hope an excitement and have been left disappointed. But being emotional and rational are not mutually exclusive in my opinion. I will share my feelings when I post, but I'm also trying to take a critical look at the clinic, simply don't believe that "bad transplants just happen sometimes", there must be a root cause and if I'm going to ever do this again I should at least make an attempt at finding that root cause. 

 

I was speaking in general terms about certain patients being unhinged , believe me they have been on this site in the past ,and if you want my honest opinion I think some of your comments and opinion on how your result is shaping up have been disproportionate to the actual result so far ,you have been advised time and time again to wait until the 12 month mark ,I am the first one to take a patient's side if he has been treated in an unfair manner or has obviously ended up with a sub -par result or been botched . 

Edited by Mick50
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators
14 minutes ago, PeloDinero said:

Man, I’m sorry but I feel Melvin can be a little too optimistic at times, to a fault. Yes, we need to be encouraging to other members but when we start giving others false hope when something objectively went wrong, it can really mess with one’s physche. We’re all adults here. Let’s try and be a little more realistic with each other so the correct next steps can be made. 

If everyone starts calling a 7 month result a failure, there will be unnecessary panic. The fact is growth does occur after 7 months. There are still several months left for the situation to improve, if at 12 months things don’t change then it’s time to find a solution, until then all we can do is wait. The situation has improved as shown in the photos. Albeit no at the rate that Payam would like, but he also is a late grower. 


I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice.

Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey

View my thread

Topical dutasteride journey 

Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
5 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

If everyone starts calling a 7 month result a failure, there will be unnecessary panic. The fact is growth does occur after 7 months. There are still several months left for the situation to improve, if at 12 months things don’t change then it’s time to find a solution, until then all we can do is wait. The situation has improved as shown in the photos. Albeit no at the rate that Payam would like, but he also is a late grower. 

7 months is way too early to call a result a failure .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

If everyone starts calling a 7 month result a failure, there will be unnecessary panic. The fact is growth does occur after 7 months. There are still several months left for the situation to improve, if at 12 months things don’t change then it’s time to find a solution, until then all we can do is wait. The situation has improved as shown in the photos. Albeit no at the rate that Payam would like, but he also is a late grower. 

Sure, there will be more growth but most of us have seen enough timelines that you can project out how things will pan out as early as 5 or 6 months. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
20 hours ago, Payam said:

1. Hey man, do you have a thread on your HT? Would really like to follow your progress, hope it turned out good for you, were you satisfied in the end?

2. I disagree on the 3rd point however, I was not ready for the Asmed experience is all.

3. ... it's starting to look like I was right. 

1. Thank you Payam. No, I do not have a thread yet, but I shared the results with users I trust and will post a story at the 12 month mark. Bottom line: My surgery was perfect, painless, no scabs or crust afterwards. I had a very small precedure and the surgeon took a lot of time to dicuss the hairline etc. I am at the 6 month mark tomorrow, and it looks similiar to your status right now. Since month 4 it is a really slow, slow progress. It drives me crazy. My introduction thread is here:

2.  Well, what can I say. I do not blame you, but I think you should have done more research, considering how sensitive you are.

3. Here you are wrong IMO. Like mentioned 1000 times, this is a roulette even with a good clinic. There is no magic trick, which guarantees great yield. But one thing is clear: If this result turns out bad after 12 month this will be a classic showcase of self fulfilling prophezie.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators
55 minutes ago, PeloDinero said:

Sure, there will be more growth but most of us have seen enough timelines that you can project out how things will pan out as early as 5 or 6 months. 

You don’t really believe that you can tell how successful a procedure will be at 5 months. That’s barely the beginning.

For anyone reading do not actually take those words to heart. Some patients like Payam have not even begun to grow at 4 months. Therefore, 5 months is impossible to know what the final outcome will be, same goes for 6 months.


I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice.

Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey

View my thread

Topical dutasteride journey 

Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The results are not natural coming out of asmed. hairlines look fake af. payam has a point on how the clinic is operating.

asmed are now using microscopes to sort single grafts for hairline but wasnt using before when i had my procedure done. still have major concerns on how they place the graft angles to hairline just looks odd with root sticking straight up, nothing natural to it. i know you can achieve natural result, i seen good natural results from other surgeons.

hair restoration forum mods should be a little honest, its understandable if you getting referral fee or some sort of commision but when peoplee getting a un natural result you cant be ganging up on patient.

customer are also getting mislead when they see threads with dr erdogan 2500+ grafts it should be asmed 2500+ grafts. as dr erdogan is only doing incision with unknown techs doing surgery.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
35 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

You don’t really believe that you can tell how successful a procedure will be at 5 months. That’s barely the beginning.

For anyone reading do not actually take those words to heart. Some patients like Payam have not even begun to grow at 4 months. Therefore, 5 months is impossible to know what the final outcome will be, same goes for 6 months.

I   certainly wouldn't have been happy if this was my final result.  Pic taken 5 month 9 days post op .Anyone wanting to see my final result check out my post 4200 FUE 3.5 years post op 

Photo on 15-06-2015 at 15.50 #2.jpg

Edited by Mick50
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
4 minutes ago, Mick50 said:

I   certainly wouldn't have been happy if this was my final result.  Pic taken 5 month 9 days post op .Anyone wanting to see my final result check out my post 4200 FUE 3.5 years post op 

Photo on 15-06-2015 at 15.50 #2.jpg

Can you link it here please 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

You don’t really believe that you can tell how successful a procedure will be at 5 months. That’s barely the beginning.

For anyone reading do not actually take those words to heart. Some patients like Payam have not even begun to grow at 4 months. Therefore, 5 months is impossible to know what the final outcome will be, same goes for 6 months.

Substandard results at 6 months followed by satisfactory results at 12 months are a rarity. Go back and look at examples of great results people ultimately ended up with. The vast majority will have the “wow factor” early on. Compare comments like “looks great for 6 months!” vs. “don’t worry, it’s only 6 months in, you should expect more growth!”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
13 minutes ago, PeloDinero said:

Substandard results at 6 months followed by satisfactory results at 12 months are a rarity. Go back and look at examples of great results people ultimately ended up with. The vast majority will have the “wow factor” early on. Compare comments like “looks great for 6 months!” vs. “don’t worry, it’s only 6 months in, you should expect more growth!”

I don't think Melvin's point is that this will necessarily be a great result or anything, but its not a disaster, he's still had a sizeable amount of growth that should be correctable unless it was physiological issues that caused the poor growth. Obviously no one can know the truth but his mention of experiencing a fever and flu like systems after the procedure seems like it plausibly could have effected the growth. Also as Melvin says its clear there is progressive growth and a rational and careful decision should be made at the end of the 10-12 month period where the average patient sees minor improvements until. He should look at options for correction and already start researching more intelligently than he did last time, but a black and white claim that its a "failure" at this point is just silly. Growth is growth, only idiots or those who haven't done their research expect going into surgery that its a guaranteed one and done.

It's not exactly uncommon for a touchup to be required or below acceptable growth to occur, no matter who the surgeon we are talking about. The clinic guarantees a touchup but Payam isn't interested in this from what he's said and I suspect the clinic likely wouldn't want him anywhere near them at this point.

Edited by JeanLDD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be very un professional in this circumstance. would you be happy if negligence was the cause to a poor result. going back to a clinic for a touch up by an unknown tech would be scary if they cant get it right first time round. asmed know what is going on. inexperience techs extracting grafts and planting with a dr rushing round from one room to the next.

clinic and dr have got complacent in the last couple of years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators
39 minutes ago, HT0416 said:

The results are not natural coming out of asmed. hairlines look fake af. payam has a point on how the clinic is operating.

asmed are now using microscopes to sort single grafts for hairline but wasnt using before when i had my procedure done. still have major concerns on how they place the graft angles to hairline just looks odd with root sticking straight up, nothing natural to it. i know you can achieve natural result, i seen good natural results from other surgeons.

hair restoration forum mods should be a little honest, its understandable if you getting referral fee or some sort of commision but when peoplee getting a un natural result you cant be ganging up on patient.

customer are also getting mislead when they see threads with dr erdogan 2500+ grafts it should be asmed 2500+ grafts. as dr erdogan is only doing incision with unknown techs doing surgery.

 

I’m being honest and I’ve been a forum member long before I was ever a moderator, to incinuate that I’m being dishonest because of a referral fee is insulting. 

Firstly, I don’t sell hair transplants nor do I work for any particular clinic. In fact, it’s my job to advocate on behalf of the patient when a result is sub-par. However, how can I say this result is sub-par when the final result is not known. This is a fact, it can not be disputed. Just because there are some patients who see most of their growth at 6 months doesn’t mean everyone will. 

Payam, has been saying his results are a failure literally before he even saw any growth. I’m trying to be rational and be the voice of reason. Seeing things objectively, it’s a fact that his results have improved every month with several months left it’s not crazy to believe his results will continue to improve. Until then all we can do is wait. 

  • Like 2


I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice.

Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey

View my thread

Topical dutasteride journey 

Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
On 10/21/2018 at 9:24 PM, Payam said:

I'm not going back there its too risky, you have no idea which techs you are getting on a given day, clearly they have tech teams that perform better than others judging by the results I've seen. We don't know anything about these people, age, education, not even names. They look in their mid twenties at most yet the clinic claims they have at least 5 years of surgical experience? How is that even possible are they pick them out of high school or something?

Clinic is pretty much ignoring me now as well. I'm doing them the courtesy of mostly containing my criticisms to this thread for now. In the end i will know what my yield was.

 

IMG_20181021_145751.jpg

IMG_20181016_144817.jpg

Yes, I know that you are saying the truth because it was the same the day I was there and people including myself were a bit surprised to see the four of us getting +2000 grafts each in the same morning. It was worrying. We were introduced quickly to the assigned technicians. Some of the recent results that have been posted by patients are not as I had expected. Dr Erdogan's replies on this forum are a bit too generic and doesn't really answer anything. Some other results from this clinic are pretty good, basically the ones I had checked before going there. I am a bit worried but I can only hope and wait that mine is one of the good results.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
12 hours ago, Mick50 said:

I think Payam's situation to a degree is symptomatic of the whole hair transplant industry in general ,there just isn't enough honesty about what can be achieved  with a hair transplant   and the actual results , clinics ,naturally most  would argue, show their best results on their websites, and people who have had great results, myself included, come on here to get admired and congratulated which is great ,but if we agree clinics show their best results, by definition there are results which are not as good and maybe they are more the norm than the home-runs that are proudly shown .

In an ideal world there would also be some pre-phychological screening by the clinics  ,there are some people who are obviously not equipped to deal with having a transplant and all that it entails , in my opinion it makes good business sense anyway to do this ,,as an unhappy unhinged patient with a perceived  bad result can do a lot of damage to a clinic , surely Docs know that a guy losing his hair especially young  guys can suffer form severe depression , and just taking a bit of time possibly with  trained psychologist  to talk through the whole thing would be worth it, because as I say an unhappy unhinged  patient will take down as many people as possible  online etc 

 

I agree but also the clinics should be more honest. Once you make contact with them you expect them to explain all the important stuff, one doesn't think that Google is going to be more knowledgeable or accurate about the Dr/clinic than the website of the clinic or the clinic's representatives. In this case the website was (don't know if it still is or was corrected) ambiguous regarding the doctor intervention and this was proven on another thread and verified by administrators.

Payam is not the only one complaining about Asmed, he is just the most vocal, some patients don't want to say anything negative in case they need to go back. I know a few.

I don't know how much psychological strength one is supposed to have when we all obviously have some insecurities about our hair, but if he is insecure why make him feel worse like aggressive members do over and over (we know who is)? Why is that allowed?

In my case there were things unknown to me until I was there but I stay positive because I believe that that is what I have to do until this wait game is over and that is Payam's only mistake, being pessimistic early on.

However, he has the same right to talk about his case as anybody else. At this stage every one of us would have doubts about our result if we were him. And even worse, if anybody else has a disappointing result will he be brave enough to post it? Most of the forum members are supportive and good people but just one devastating comment written with an intention to hurt you or humiliate you when you already feel down can be quite negative.

Edited by BigBen
Typos
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
50 minutes ago, BigBen said:

I agree but also the clinics should be more honest. Once you make contact with them you expect them to explain all the important stuff, one doesn't think that Google is going to be more knowledgeable or accurate about the Dr/clinic than the website of the clinic or the clinic's representatives. In this case the website was (don't know if it still is or was corrected) ambiguous regarding the doctor intervention and this was proven on another thread and verified by administrators.

Payam is not the only one complaining about Asmed, he is just the most vocal, some patients don't want to say anything negative in case they need to go back. I know a few.

I don't know how much psychological strength one is supposed to have when we all obviously have some insecurities about our hair, but if he is insecure why make him feel worse like aggressive members do over and over (we know who is)? Why is that allowed?

In my case there were things unknown to me until I was there but I stay positive because I believe that that is what I have to do until this wait game is over and that is Payam's only mistake, being pessimistic early on.

However, he has the same right to talk about his case as anybody else. At this stage every one of us would have doubts about our result if we were him. And even worse, if anybody else has a disappointing result will he be brave enough to post it? Most of the forum members are supportive and good people but just one devastating comment written with an intention to hurt you or humiliate you when you already feel down can be quite negative.

Well said. Calling someone unhinged and crazy etc is just cruel. People are spending thousands, sometimes every penny they have got a surgery to improve their lives. Yeah it’s cosmetic but the negative impact baldness can have on someone’s self esteem and quality of life can be massive. It’s why we are all on this forum.

If you don’t agree with his feelings and opinions on his OWN hair and surgery, respectfully disagree and move on instead of name calling and telling him he’s wrong. No one has the right to invalidate payams own feelings about his surgery because they are his feelings and it’s his hair (that he’s paid a large sum of money for). The emotional toll this journey has affects everyone differently. He may not be dealing with it the same as some others but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong.

In comparison to successful results, he is lagging behind. He may be a slow grower, he may not be. It might improve, it might not.

Going forward, I do think the Asmed website could benefit from being 100% transparent, and informing potential patients straight up that Dr Erdogan won’t be performing the actual surgery. They should divulge the level of training, expertise and credentials of the people that actually are performing the surgery.

Yes, we can research and find out in round about ways but the clinic can’t be dependent on that and should instead make a point of making sure potential patients are fully aware of what to expect.

payam, my advice is to just wait. At the end of the day there’s nothing else you can do until the allotted time has passed. If after 18 months you aren’t happy, revisit it. Until then don’t put yourself through the scrutiny and stress. 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
4 minutes ago, kw877 said:

Well said. Calling someone unhinged and crazy etc is just cruel. People are spending thousands, sometimes every penny they have got a surgery to improve their lives. Yeah it’s cosmetic but the negative impact baldness can have on someone’s self esteem and quality of life can be massive. It’s why we are all on this forum.

If you don’t agree with his feelings and opinions on his OWN hair and surgery, respectfully disagree and move on instead of name calling and telling him he’s wrong. No one has the right to invalidate payams own feelings about his surgery because they are his feelings and it’s his hair (that he’s paid a large sum of money for). The emotional toll this journey has affects everyone differently. He may not be dealing with it the same as some others but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong.

In comparison to successful results, he is lagging behind. He may be a slow grower, he may not be. It might improve, it might not.

Going forward, I do think the Asmed website could benefit from being 100% transparent, and informing potential patients straight up that Dr Erdogan won’t be performing the actual surgery. They should divulge the level of training, expertise and credentials of the people that actually are performing the surgery.

Yes, we can research and find out in round about ways but the clinic can’t be dependent on that and should instead make a point of making sure potential patients are fully aware of what to expect.

payam, my advice is to just wait. At the end of the day there’s nothing else you can do until the allotted time has passed. If after 18 months you aren’t happy, revisit it. Until then don’t put yourself through the scrutiny and stress. 

If people are spending "every penny they have" (which is a horrible idea, period) then they owe it to themselves to do a basic Google search. The clinic doesn't hide or deceive anyone on the tech issue the consultation says the "surgical team" performs extractions and that Erdogan comes in during incisions, it is industry standard in Europe for the surgeon not to perform extractions and no clinic is vocally advertising this, nor should they be expected to. Its fair to expect ten minutes of research outside the clinics website which would make this clear, and if that's not happening when you're dropping ten grand, then its very obvious who is at fault, and it isn't the clinic. 

Saying he "doesn't perform the surgery" is blatant hyperbole from someone who doesn't understand how surgical procedure works. Do Rahal, Hasson, Wong, Feriduni, Lorenzo and Freitas not perform FUE surgery either? Because none of those are doing the extractions,  Rahal and Hasson for example having exactly the same amount of engagement in the FUE that Erdogan does. No one I have seen EVER claims this about these clinics however. I would add to that Hasson/Wong in particular went to Erdogan for guidance when they were acquiring FUE skills prior to offering it at their clinic.

I was a NW3 close to a diffused NW5 at 22, I know perfectly well the mental stresses of hair transplants, but being emotional about hair is no reason to be irrational, slander or be dishonest when it comes to research or analysing things objectively. Being emotional doesn't automatically make someone start lying, making things up or fear mongering to scare potential patients based on disingenuous information, like saying that the techs look too young to be experienced.  The feelings are fine, statements like this ", but I'm also trying to take a critical look at the clinic, simply don't believe that "bad transplants just happen sometimes" make it pretty clear his outlook as run off the rails and are objectively in the realm of nonsense. There are hundreds of results on this forum from top surgeons who perform all surgical parts of FUE and have had plenty of poor results before. There is certainly a "reason" for these poor results, but you can't pinpoint it on the first thing you think of like Payam does with "But dah yung girl techs!!" He even said that a poor result wouldn't bother him if it was completely performed by a doctor, it only worries him because it was done by a tech. This is the definition of religious irrationality.

And quite frankly, read Payam's concerns from the start of the thread, hes not crazy but clearly deals with issues that warrant professional psychological assistance, and is incredibly neurotic. He's not a child, for someone this inclined to anxiety not to spend ten minutes searching for information on a clinic hes about to drop 10 grand on for SURGERY, then its laughable to suggest he doesn't have some responsibility. He didn't even have to research, if the tech issue was such a concern he could have simply asked in consultation emails whether the surgeon performed all parts of the procedure, nor when he was at the clinic and was so surprised at the "young girls" that were techs and that there were multiple others having surgery did he have to go through with it. Its a surgical clinic, not a babysitters for manchildren.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...