3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

[HT0416]

Most results have issues with multi hair grafts in frontal, hair grafts pointing in wrong direction and low density. Just not good enough when you paying a premium compare to other known clinics in Turkey which cost a fraction of the price.

[Payam]

1 hour ago, JeanLDD said:

 

You say this:

"You call it mudslinging but I have not said anything false anywhere about their process"

Then subsequently:

"they clearly changed their model to maximize profits and Erdogan is not nearly as involved in the process any longer, he even leaves supervision to his lead tech. Most patients have no idea of these things because the clinic is not upfront about it"

How in the world can you honestly say they did it to "maximise profit"? Did Hasson and Wong or Rahal decide to use technicians for extraction and implantation to "maximise profit"? Nor is it fair to say he isn't nearly involved any longer, the tech setup has been going on for at least 5 years, and being a surgeon with some of the most patient posted results on the internet, at least A HUNDRED of these say that Erdogan is not involved with extractions in detailed descriptions of the process. Nor does it say in the emails or booking confirmation or the website that he is directly involved. Nor is it industry standard ANYWHERE IN EUROPE for the surgeon to extract the grafts.  It isn't misleading if its the industry standard and the clinic aren't proclaiming that he is involved in it, you are clearly the one being disingenuous.

Nothing I said there was related to name calling, nor was it hyperbole, nor was it a conversation with you because the reality is that you're deluded to the point its like talking to a brick wall and have made your mind up. Wish you well with any surgery you have in future, although I feel for the surgeon that is going to have to deal with having you as a patient.

 

Erdogan was much more involved earlier with his lead tech named Dilek whom he supervised, now he barely enters one of FOUR operating rooms to do the incisions and leaves supervision to Dilek, a tech supervising techs. How is this not raising eyebrows? Is he trying to set a record for most surgeries in a day? Are 4 completely tech driven and supervised surgeries in parallel also the industry standard? If he had been more involved I would have accepted the result, but now of course I worry that maybe it was due to negligence. Of course the assumption when booking a surgery with Erdogan is that he will perform most parts of it or be very involved, how can you even argue this point.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Payam

[hairlossPA]

Payam - instead of me going through 13 pages of this thread, can you summarize the time from pre-op to current?

Pic 1: pre-op. best your hair can look at the moment

Pic 2: imediately post-op

Pic 3: 6 months

Pic 4: Current. best you can get your hair to look at the moment. Dont brush it all over the place so it looks worse than it actually is. style it the best you can

[Friedman]

On 10/11/2018 at 8:13 PM, Payam said:

 

 

 

 

This actually looks like a great result to me. I don't think people should go into a hair transplant surgery expecting better. It looks thick enough, does it not?  I think those pics where the OP parts his hair right by the hairline will look thin on anyone. What matters is how you look with the hair as you go out in public. 

 

 

On 10/11/2018 at 8:13 PM, Payam said:

 

 

 

Took these today. Don't think I can go out without toppik, anyone have tips for concealers? Something that is a bit easier to apply and doesn't make such a mess, from a spray bottle would be nice

[Friedman]

2 hours ago, HT0416 said:

Most results have issues with multi hair grafts in frontal, hair grafts pointing in wrong direction and low density. Just not good enough when you paying a premium compare to other known clinics in Turkey which cost a fraction of the price.

 

Can surgeones actually do anything about hair pointed in the right direction? Or is this just a hazard of the business?

[FarsanUk]

4 minutes ago, Payam said:

Erdogan was much more involved earlier with his lead tech named Dilek whom he supervised, now he barely enters one of FOUR operating rooms to do the incisions and leaves supervision to Dilek, a tech supervising techs. How is this not raising eyebrows? Is he trying to set a record for most surgeries in a day? Are 4 completely tech driven and supervised surgeries in parallel also the industry standard? If he had been more involved I would have accepted the result, but now of course I worry that maybe it was due to negligence. Of course the assumption when booking a surgery with Erdogan is that he will perform most parts of it or be very involved, how can you even argue this point.

Payam

That is exactly why you should ask these questions several times before you even book surgery. These are all basic questions among more that should be asked. Before I booked I had done extensive research and spoke to many experts in the field and used that education to ask the relevant questions. So once i booked I knew that he does 4 patients a day, he only does incisions and supervises through the cameras in each operating room and watches from his office. I also asked how they separate single hairs and they said they have just started using microscopes so i was well aware of what was to come. As for Dilek she is very well known in the industry and is one of the best senior techs around she has been at Asmed since the start and speaking to people that know her she often corrects Dr Erdogan and tells him how something should be done. She has extensive experience in the field in fact people have specifically requested her to do their extractions that is how good she is. That said, if you had asked these basic questions in the first place and knowing those answers would you have still gone with Asmed? The fact that you did not ask this - and if you now answer yes you did ask these questions then you must not blame their model for your results because you knew exactly what you were going in for. If you did not ask these questions then that is  your fault and no one else. I can imagine your response - " But that is no excuse for a bad result" and I agree to a point. 

What you need to do now is stop going round and round in circles because it is not achieving anything. Focus on  getting to the 12 month mark at least and continue to send photos to the clinic. Then focus on how you can repair what has happened and honestly it would not require a big job to repair your concerns be grateful that it is not a botch job where no amount of repair can fix it. And this time go to a surgeon (no matter what the cost) whos model is what YOU expect (dr. does all extraction/incisions/1 patient a day) do not make the mistake of going back to Asmed because you would be completely contradicting what you have been complaining about. 

So stop with the forums because it is driving you mad. You are just getting into arguments with people - you have your view they have theirs and no one is helping anyone. Focus on what needs to be done going forwards.

[HT0416]

22 minutes ago, Friedman said:

 

Can surgeones actually do anything about hair pointed in the right direction? Or is this just a hazard of the business?

If done right by the right surgeon. I would say a major hazard of the business. Seems like a lot of clinics/surgeons cant get this right from looking at results. People seem to over look at how angles are placed if they see new hair on the head.  If angles are placed wrong you will get a un natural looking result which will look botched. 

My opinion stands until i see a solid result. I think Payam has every right to voice his concerns in this forum, people telling him otherwise should focus on their own results and wait to see a solid result themselves.

No clinic/surgeon should ignore patients concerns.

[Melvin- Admin]

Just to keep things in perspective, Payam has indeed seen a big improvements from months 4-7. I see no reason why things won’t continue to improve when they have improved every month since he’s been updating the thread. It’s hard to appreciate change when you look at the mirror everyday and personally don’t see it. However, looking back it’s quite obvious.

[2941grafts]

Hi Payam, your hair is becoming better each time you post new update. As for the current progress you will have nice hair by next May.

[Gasthoerer]

2 hours ago, Friedman said:

 

Can surgeones actually do anything about hair pointed in the right direction? Or is this just a hazard of the business?

This is not the right place to discuss, cause it is not an issue here I believe.

To give an answer: The angles of the grafts are determined by the incisions typically made by the surgeon (in this case Erdogan). The techs during planting have only a minor influence.

The curvature of the grafts is determined by the way the graft direction is chosen. This is the responsibility of the techs and requires a lot of experience. 

[Gasthoerer]

Some points are clear to me:

1. So far (!) the result would not be satisfying to me either, but it is not a butchered job. No clinic and no protocol guarantees a better result than this. Actually, it is quite common that for such a big case a 2n round is required. It is unfortunate but happens. 

2a) It is normal for any (!) clinic that they will not give a detailed answer to every status report to any client. Also clinics with less patients per day are often bad in communication. It is a long travel and the clinic can only help you partly though it. 

2b) The way the communication is handled will make future cooperation between clinic and patient impossible IMO. I said this 10 pages ago and in several other threads.

3. Payman was not prepared for a HT and to be honest: Many people are not as the waiting game is horrible. You can clearly see from the initial discussions (Crusts, hairline to low) that there was nth which could calm him down. Not even the worse crusts by a Konior patient (unfortunately the link is broken since the transfer to the new forum) could calm him down or convince him that this is not an ASMED issue.

4. ASMED is a tech and math driven clinic. This approach is borderline to me. Also I do not like the "typical" hairline design of Erdogan which might be just my taste or "partly" the result of the time spend with the patient. I personally prefer more time with the surgeon and paid significantly (!) more money for it (even though also techs are used for extraction and planting!). On top I went to the clinic twice (!) before the surgery day. BUT: I cannot expect a better result due to that especially not in terms of density. 

[Payam]

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

Some points are clear to me:

1. So far (!) the result would not be satisfying to me either, but it is not a butchered job. No clinic and no protocol guarantees a better result than this. Actually, it is quite common that for such a big case a 2n round is required. It is unfortunate but happens. 

2a) It is normal for any (!) clinic that they will not give a detailed answer to every status report to any client. Also clinics with less patients per day are often bad in communication. It is a long travel and the clinic can only help you partly though it. 

2b) The way the communication is handled will make future cooperation between clinic and patient impossible IMO. I said this 10 pages ago and in several other threads.

3. Payman was not prepared for a HT and to be honest: Many people are not as the waiting game is horrible. You can clearly see from the initial discussions (Crusts, hairline to low) that there was nth which could calm him down. Not even the worse crusts by a Konior patient (unfortunately the link is broken since the transfer to the new forum) could calm him down or convince him that this is not an ASMED issue.

4. ASMED is a tech and math driven clinic. This approach is borderline to me. Also I do not like the "typical" hairline design of Erdogan which might be just my taste or "partly" the result of the time spend with the patient. I personally prefer more time with the surgeon and paid significantly (!) more money for it (even though also techs are used for extraction and planting!). On top I went to the clinic twice (!) before the surgery day. BUT: I cannot expect a better result due to that especially not in terms of density. 

Hey man, do you have a thread on your HT? Would really like to follow your progress, hope it turned out good for you, were you satisfied in the end?

I disagree on the 3rd point however, I was not ready for the Asmed experience is all. You could blame me for not reading the forums beforehand like Jean, I personally blame the clinic for not being upfront about the whole process. The experience left a foul taste in my mouth unfortunately and I couldn't shake the feeling that something was wrong, it felt like I was on a conveyor belt in the Asmed FUE factory and as much as it pains me to say, it's starting to look like I was right. 

[LonelyGraft]

Its easy to point fingers and state payam is overreacting. However, being someone that suffers from anxiety myself, a hair transplant can really trigger negative thoughts and emotions. I am currently one month post op in full ugly duckling stage and the last 4 weeks have been a roller coaster. In my mind I get caught up in negative thoughts similar to payam and that’s why I have so much empathy for him.

 

please try to be considerate of his emotional state of mind. Yes, it may not be the exact way you would handle the situation but we are all not the same and some of us can handle a certain situation better than others.

 

i really hope payams results transform into what he’s looking for. There is still a lot of time and like others have said the work is not bad.

 

Payam- please stay strong my friend 

[LonelyGraft]

Btw, payam, have u ever thought about seeing a therapist so you can openly talk to someone regarding some of your thoughts? Sometimes it helps to be able to talk to a neutral party that can help lead you in the right direction. Sometimes it’s hard to get that good advice from our friends and family. Please pm me if you have questions or want to talk to someone.

[HT0416]

 

[Payam]

3 hours ago, jj51702 said:

Btw, payam, have u ever thought about seeing a therapist so you can openly talk to someone regarding some of your thoughts? Sometimes it helps to be able to talk to a neutral party that can help lead you in the right direction. Sometimes it’s hard to get that good advice from our friends and family. Please pm me if you have questions or want to talk to someone.

I really appreciate the concern brother, I will be fine though. As anyone will tell you it sucks when you are speaking to someone and their eyes focus on your hairline, really makes your heart drop and I have been quite depressed over it. I do firmly believe this can be fixed though, there is still a couple of months left of maturation and I am making plans for a surgery to fix this in the meantime, mainly the density and the doubles in the hairline which look especially awful with thick dark hair.

I am being cautious though and won't rush into anything, no surprises this time.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Payam

[kw877]

21 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

 

 

What is this international fo

Edited October 23, 2018 by kw877
Posting error

[kw877]

21 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by kw877
Posting error

[kw877]

21 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by kw877
Error

[kw877]

21 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

A lot of people questioning ASMED lately, despite 90% of the complaints coming from Payam and being littered everywhere. Of course he ignores that 95% of results on here and the international forum (which has over 40 from the last 18 months) that are positive, and that they're doing the work at a substantially cheaper rate than with someone like Konior who performs the extractions himself.

 

What is this international forum?

[Mick50]

I think Payam's situation to a degree is symptomatic of the whole hair transplant industry in general ,there just isn't enough honesty about what can be achieved  with a hair transplant   and the actual results , clinics ,naturally most  would argue, show their best results on their websites, and people who have had great results, myself included, come on here to get admired and congratulated which is great ,but if we agree clinics show their best results, by definition there are results which are not as good and maybe they are more the norm than the home-runs that are proudly shown .

In an ideal world there would also be some pre-phychological screening by the clinics  ,there are some people who are obviously not equipped to deal with having a transplant and all that it entails , in my opinion it makes good business sense anyway to do this ,,as an unhappy unhinged patient with a perceived  bad result can do a lot of damage to a clinic , surely Docs know that a guy losing his hair especially young  guys can suffer form severe depression , and just taking a bit of time possibly with  trained psychologist  to talk through the whole thing would be worth it, because as I say an unhappy unhinged  patient will take down as many people as possible  online etc 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Mick50

[JayLDD]

4 hours ago, kw877 said:

What is this international forum?

Just google international hairloss forum, then use the translate tool on Chrome.

[Payam]

15 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Just to keep things in perspective, Payam has indeed seen a big improvements from months 4-7. I see no reason why things won’t continue to improve when they have improved every month since he’s been updating the thread. It’s hard to appreciate change when you look at the mirror everyday and personally don’t see it. However, looking back it’s quite obvious.

I think you should compare them to month 6 instead. Even in the pics above you can see the problem areas barely had any growth in the past three months.

[Melvin- Admin]

Payam,

Do you really think there was no growth? Even with you spreading you hairline apart making it look worse you can tell the growth is obvious. Also, your growth is slow, but steady and is improving every month something that can not be denied. The problem areas still have several months to grow in, I think it would be appropriate to at least wait the full time before making a final judgement.

[Payam]

7 hours ago, Mick50 said:

I think Payam's situation to a degree is symptomatic of the whole hair transplant industry in general ,there just isn't enough honesty about what can be achieved  with a hair transplant   and the actual results , clinics ,naturally most  would argue, show their best results on their websites, and people who have had great results, myself included, come on here to get admired and congratulated which is great ,but if we agree clinics show their best results, by definition there are results which are not as good and maybe they are more the norm than the home-runs that are proudly shown .

In an ideal world there would also be some pre-phychological screening by the clinics  ,there are some people who are obviously not equipped to deal with having a transplant and all that it entails , in my opinion it makes good business sense anyway to do this ,,as an unhappy unhinged patient with a perceived  bad result can do a lot of damage to a clinic , surely Docs know that a guy losing his hair especially young  guys can suffer form severe depression , and just taking a bit of time possibly with  trained psychologist  to talk through the whole thing would be worth it, because as I say an unhappy unhinged  patient will take down as many people as possible  online etc 

 

Kind of mean calling me unhinged mate, lol. I am voicing my concerns about certain aspects of their methods, yes I am emotional, I went into this with so much hope an excitement and have been left disappointed. But being emotional and rational are not mutually exclusive in my opinion. I will share my feelings when I post, but I'm also trying to take a critical look at the clinic, simply don't believe that "bad transplants just happen sometimes", there must be a root cause and if I'm going to ever do this again I should at least make an attempt at finding that root cause.