3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

[Sean]

Squidward, you make a great point on saving money.  If surgery fails and you paid 7000$ vs 30000$ then you obviously have more money.  Not a lot of American docs offer refunds nor help, they may try to do repairs again and fail or etc.  you are kind of held hostage.  I can see your point here.  But there are few docs with gaurantees.  You just have to document really well though. 

A lot of docs prey on folks and do not fully inform, just so they can get you in the chair.  I do not believe that I am out to help you storyline at all anymore by some folks in this industry.  Some docs will even try to put words in your mouth when things seem to go downhill.  Business is business.  Be a good documenter and things will be easier.    Best thing is to teach out to authentic repair patients. But try to find ones that are not biased.  

Payam is certainly doing his best here and  hoping things change by the end of the year for him.  At this stage, result is obviously not there yet.  That is a fact.  It is a waiting game and we’ll all see how his clinic responds.  

[Payam]

On 10/14/2018 at 3:21 AM, Sean said:

Squidward, you make a great point on saving money.  If surgery fails and you paid 7000$ vs 30000$ then you obviously have more money.  Not a lot of American docs offer refunds nor help, they may try to do repairs again and fail or etc.  you are kind of held hostage.  I can see your point here.  But there are few docs with gaurantees.  You just have to document really well though. 

A lot of docs prey on folks and do not fully inform, just so they can get you in the chair.  I do not believe that I am out to help you storyline at all anymore by some folks in this industry.  Some docs will even try to put words in your mouth when things seem to go downhill.  Business is business.  Be a good documenter and things will be easier.    Best thing is to teach out to authentic repair patients. But try to find ones that are not biased.  

Payam is certainly doing his best here and  hoping things change by the end of the year for him.  At this stage, result is obviously not there yet.  That is a fact.  It is a waiting game and we’ll all see how his clinic responds.  

Money is not the issue for me, lost grafts are much much worse, they are priceless.

While I wish I had kept my cool earlier in the thread as it is easier to antagonize and discard an emotional response, I don't regret arguing that there are a number of recent sub par and what I would consider failed Asmed results, and I still firmly believe that it is due to the techs as the clinic very rarely did badly when Koray and his head tech Dilek had more involvement. It is important for me to look at the facts and get to the bottom of what happened here so that I can plan for the future.

 

[HT0416]

Not seen a good Asmed result in a few years maybe longer theres not many if you look closely. Graft angles and density are major issues at Asmed. I agree with Payam if newly trained technicians are handling grafts and Dr Erdogan jumping from one room to the next or watching via cctv, how on earth you going to get a solid result. Patients are not in and out jobbys, they want a natural result. Would like to hear from someone on here who is a professional in this field to give an unbiased opinion on some of the results coming out of Asmed.

Also another bashing when hairline is drawn it is just a rounded curve, no thought on part sides, how patient is going to style for future, just a curve.

When you get a below par result you are screwed and have to rely on existing hair and fin to be able to cover bad low density  hair transplant.

I think their could be some confusion when incisions are made from dr and graft placing from techs.

[Gasthoerer]

2 hours ago, HT0416 said:

Not seen a good Asmed result in a few years maybe longer theres not many if you look closely. 

ASMED is not my first choice clinic either but this is certainly not true. 

[Payam]

On 10/16/2018 at 4:22 PM, Gasthoerer said:

ASMED is not my first choice clinic either but this is certainly not true. 

I agree with Gas, we should be able to criticize the clinic but try to be constructive man, they have certainly had great recent results no doubt

Edited October 19, 2018 by Payam

[HT0416]

It's just my opinion, we all have one. 

Hair transplant are never going to look good if hair grafts look like plugs sticking out. Successful hair transplants are meant to be undetectable.

I am hoping to see some solid results in next couple months.

Edited October 16, 2018 by HT0416

[BigBen]

Payam, why do you disapprove his message when many recent Asmed patients have shared exactly the same concerns, including you? You only disagree with him on two subjective points: good results ratio and hairline design.

Regarding hairlines, it's totally subjective, I like Koray's design but I understand that it might look artificial to others. It depends on your original hairline and face considerably, but it's quite different to what Feriduni would do, to name two doctors I asked. I liked Koray's hairline because it looked good on my face. So it's both subjective and it's influenced by your face and original hairline. Mine looks great on my face and it's similar to my hairline before the loss (I keep the temples). If others don't like them, that's okay.

Results? I have seen a few awesome results but also some others that lack density even after one year, you have seen them too. So yes, I agree with you not all but not any are bad. I have realised that some people consider a good result what others wouldn't but I believe that this is partly influenced by two facts. Firstly, trying to cheer up the patients; secondly protecting the doctors' reputation. I find some cases to not be good or bad, but enough and slightly disappointing. I also check the pre-HT photos because it's not the same covering the front than covering almost the full top of the head. I also pay special attention at the front and the overall homogeneity so basic hairstyles can be done and hair looks consistent overall.

I can't comment on my results at all because I had it done just over two months ago. I would say it's going well this far because I see small thin hairs already but it's so early and uncertain at this stage that I consider that it's pointless to try to reach any conclusion and that doing that would confuse me and confuse other people.

[HT 2]

Hey Payam,

Just skimmed over this thread and I totally agree where you are coming from but as annoying as it sounds it’s a waiting game and looking at your 7 month progress another 5 months should get you a decent result. If not people will till you to wait another 6 months!

I am scheduled to see Asmed in Dec to get my HT. I hope your comms with him has made him sort out any issues they “may have “with techs.

I must admit this has made me worry a bit since I hardly see any negative comments about the clinic but again with the changing workforce throughout the years and tech stability/mood on the day makes it hard to maintain a flawless reputation.

Keep us posted on progress

[Payam]

11 hours ago, HT0416 said:

It's just my opinion, we all have one. 

Hair transplant are never going to look good if hair grafts look like plugs sticking out. Successful hair transplants are meant to be undetectable.

I am hoping to see some solid results in next couple months.

I mostly agree with you, even if my surgery had a great yield It would probably not look that great due to all the doubles in my hairline, at least it would not look as bad as it does now

[Payam]

16 hours ago, BigBen said:

Payam, why do you disapprove his message when many recent Asmed patients have shared exactly the same concerns, including you? You only disagree with him on two subjective points: good results ratio and hairline design.

Regarding hairlines, it's totally subjective, I like Koray's design but I understand that it might look artificial to others. It depends on your original hairline and face considerably, but it's quite different to what Feriduni would do, to name two doctors I asked. I liked Koray's hairline because it looked good on my face. So it's both subjective and it's influenced by your face and original hairline. Mine looks great on my face and it's similar to my hairline before the loss (I keep the temples). If others don't like them, that's okay.

Results? I have seen a few awesome results but also some others that lack density even after one year, you have seen them too. So yes, I agree with you not all but not any are bad. I have realised that some people consider a good result what others wouldn't but I believe that this is partly influenced by two facts. Firstly, trying to cheer up the patients; secondly protecting the doctors' reputation. I find some cases to not be good or bad, but enough and slightly disappointing. I also check the pre-HT photos because it's not the same covering the front than covering almost the full top of the head. I also pay special attention at the front and the overall homogeneity so basic hairstyles can be done and hair looks consistent overall.

I can't comment on my results at all because I had it done just over two months ago. I would say it's going well this far because I see small thin hairs already but it's so early and uncertain at this stage that I consider that it's pointless to try to reach any conclusion and that doing that would confuse me and confuse other people.

No i agree with him, i think looking logically at it you introduce a lot of unknowns with having this many patients a day, everything to maximize profits i guess. I am over 7 months and i have never been this self conscious about my hair, it looks really bad in real life, peoples eyes keep drifting to my hairline when I speak with them and I understand why, my camera adds noise to the pictures making them look better and the hairline softer, in real life it looks like black toothpicks stick from my head. I have to hide the hairline like these two guys, which absolutely sucks but will have to do for now as I can't handle the looks I get, trying to get other opinions in my case from professionals in the field as well. 

 

[BigBen]

The good thing, Payam, is that Asmed has this 90% surviving grafts guarantee so if you don't get that go back to them like other disappointed patients have done and keep us posted. We appreciate their sincerity so we know how Asmed deals with their not so good results. It's early though, you have to wait at least one year for the definitive result. I know that time goes slow after a HT but there's nothing we can do but wait. In the meantime, remember to eat healthy (including fruit, vitamins...). I'd recommend minoxidil and finasteride which is what most doctors and patients recommend (I don't remember if you use them or not). I have used finasteride since I was 19 or 20 and one month after the HT (as recommended by the doctor) I went back to minoxidil, now foam instead of liquid. I keep buying the shampoo that Asmed use (Seba Med Everyday) because I like it.

[ILtrooper]

I am experiencing very minor cracking as well. Thanks to this thread, I m not freaking out. I am day 4 post op now. It’s very minor, but it’s there.

[Payam]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:58 PM, BigBen said:

The good thing, Payam, is that Asmed has this 90% surviving grafts guarantee so if you don't get that go back to them like other disappointed patients have done and keep us posted. We appreciate their sincerity so we know how Asmed deals with their not so good results. It's early though, you have to wait at least one year for the definitive result. I know that time goes slow after a HT but there's nothing we can do but wait. In the meantime, remember to eat healthy (including fruit, vitamins...). I'd recommend minoxidil and finasteride which is what most doctors and patients recommend (I don't remember if you use them or not). I have used finasteride since I was 19 or 20 and one month after the HT (as recommended by the doctor) I went back to minoxidil, now foam instead of liquid. I keep buying the shampoo that Asmed use (Seba Med Everyday) because I like it.

I'm not going back there its too risky, you have no idea which techs you are getting on a given day, clearly they have tech teams that perform better than others judging by the results I've seen. We don't know anything about these people, age, education, not even names. They look in their mid twenties at most yet the clinic claims they have at least 5 years of surgical experience? How is that even possible are they pick them out of high school or something?

Clinic is pretty much ignoring me now as well. I'm doing them the courtesy of mostly containing my criticisms to this thread for now. In the end i will know what my yield was.

 

[HT0416]

Photos defiantly soften what it actually looks like. You may see more growth in the next 6 months

Edited October 21, 2018 by HT0416

[LonelyGraft]

What did u ask the clinic that they started to ignore you?

[Payam]

50 minutes ago, jj51702 said:

What did u ask the clinic that they started to ignore you?

I have been updating Koray with pictures asking him what he thinks is happening, last time he answered was over a month ago

 

[LonelyGraft]

2 hours ago, Payam said:

I have been updating Koray with pictures asking him what he thinks is happening, last time he answered was over a month ago

 

Can you post his last response? Is the patient coordinator ignoring u too?

[Markee]

Very frustrating and unprofessional I'd be calling him 

[JayLDD]

2 hours ago, Markee said:

Very frustrating and unprofessional I'd be calling him 

He's said himself that he's had a direct line with Erdogan including by email from despite making false claim after false claim about the clinic and attacking them from day one.  He attacks him, the clinic and the tech model  (which was known before he went) again and again on various threads saying they're incompetent or too young to be working there. Payam has also said he doesn't want to go back to the clinic at this point.

The clinic can't wave a magic wand to improve the density, if Payam has already had significant access to discussing his result to the clinic, but attacks them on his and every thread possible including with false statements, and now doesn't want to go back, please explain exactly how the clinic is being unprofessional or what they are supposed to do. Not just from the perspective of ASMED, but from the perspective of future clinics that Payam wanted work from, if they had ever read this thread or his comments elsewhere there's a strong chance they wouldn't be willing to take him as a patient. I mean this in an objective sense and it isn't intended to offend, but Payam is not mentally cut out for hair transplants. Read his initial posts, he was a problem patient waiting to happen, and certainly if I was the clinic I wouldn't be handing out names of techs to someone who comes across as this neurotic. 

There are hundreds of bad results from good doctors on this forum, 99% don't resort to thoughtless, immature mud slinging and making false claims about the clinic they went to. The clinic should uphold their growth guarantee, but if Payam doesn't want to go back to the clinic then explain exactly what ASMED are supposed to do. If you ran a clinic, I doubt you'd be jumping through hoops to compensate or babysit someone who slanders your clinic with false information and almost single-handedly makes an effort to hurt your reputation. A lot of people questioning ASMED lately, despite 90% of the complaints coming from Payam and being littered everywhere. Of course he ignores that 95% of results on here and the international forum (which has over 40 from the last 18 months) that are positive, and that they're doing the work at a substantially cheaper rate than with someone like Konior who performs the extractions himself.

 

[HT0416]

Payam has every right to complain. He has a below par result which looks very un natural. 

[Payam]

9 hours ago, jj51702 said:

Can you post his last response? Is the patient coordinator ignoring u too?

His latest response from a month ago was quite unprofessional, I understand he feels I am trying to sully the reputation of the clinic, but we must be able to discuss the lesser known aspects of his process and the dangers to patients without resorting namecalling and attempts to discredit the patient as Jean is doing here. I have done my research and the fact is Asmed has a number of par results lately when most of their patients are great prospects for a successful transplant, I am compiling a list of these, they clearly changed their model to maximize profits and Erdogan is not nearly as involved in the process any longer, he even leaves supervision to his lead tech. Most patients have no idea of these things because the clinic is not upfront about it. Claiming 90% of the complaints come from me is ridiculous, I have been contacted by several unhappy patients who are afraid of going public as I am due to the obvious.

Erdogan has a responsibility as my physician to explain to me what went wrong despite his personal feelings, at least answer my questions, not give me pointless platitudes and then ignoring me. You call it mudslinging but I have not said anything false anywhere about their process. I think it is important we are open and honest and attempting to discredit the patient is not doing the clinic any favours.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Payam

[Payam]

6 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

 

Honestly man it's impossible to have a discussion with you when every other sentence you type is either name calling or hyperbole

Edited October 22, 2018 by Payam

[JayLDD]

17 minutes ago, Payam said:

Honestly man it's impossible to have a discussion with you when every other sentence you type is either name calling or hyperbole

.

Edited October 22, 2018 by JeanLDD

[MYINT SOE]

Hello friend,I ca

Edited October 22, 2018 by MYINT SOE
Sorry for my name calling.

[JayLDD]

10 minutes ago, Payam said:

Honestly man it's impossible to have a discussion with you when every other sentence you type is either name calling or hyperbole

 

You say this:

"You call it mudslinging but I have not said anything false anywhere about their process"

Then subsequently:

"they clearly changed their model to maximize profits and Erdogan is not nearly as involved in the process any longer, he even leaves supervision to his lead tech. Most patients have no idea of these things because the clinic is not upfront about it"

How in the world can you honestly say they did it to "maximise profit"? Did Hasson and Wong or Rahal decide to use technicians for extraction and implantation to "maximise profit"? Nor is it fair to say he isn't nearly involved any longer, the tech setup has been going on for at least 5 years, and being a surgeon with some of the most patient posted results on the internet, at least A HUNDRED of these say that Erdogan is not involved with extractions in detailed descriptions of the process. Nor does it say in the emails or booking confirmation or the website that he is directly involved. Nor is it industry standard ANYWHERE IN EUROPE for the surgeon to extract the grafts.  It isn't misleading if its the industry standard and the clinic aren't proclaiming that he is involved in it, you are clearly the one being disingenuous.

Nothing I said there was related to name calling, nor was it hyperbole, nor was it a conversation with you because the reality is that you're deluded to the point its like talking to a brick wall and have made your mind up. Wish you well with any surgery you have in future, although I feel for the surgeon that is going to have to deal with having you as a patient.