‘Propecia Castrated Me,’ Says New York State Man

[mikeyhwk]

Not really, I think there is some good info within this thread. Also exposes a couple of people who think they know it all and clearly do not

 

What did you learn from this thread that you didn't know coming in? I don't feel like anything new was said, it's the same ole info, which quickly degenerated into insults from both sides.

Edited March 27, 2018 by mikeyhwk

[10x12x6]

What did you learn from this thread that you didn't know coming in?

 

JeanLLD doesn't know what he's talking about and no one calls him out on it. Keep in mind there are even younger and dumber guys reading his shit and think the bullshit he's saying makes sense. The cycle continues. It's kind of a fuck-up case study in memetics.

[JayLDD]

JeanLLD doesn't know what he's talking about and no one calls him out on it. Keep in mind there are even younger and dumber guys reading his shit and think the bullshit he's saying makes sense. The cycle continues. It's kind of a fuck-up case study in memetics.

 

And not once have your critiques of what I've said accurately portrayed what I actually said, or others you have called idiots have said.

 

"the difference was statistically significant in favor of placebo with p < 0.05."

 

You keep bringing this up to people who already admit this as if it is a revelation and call them idiots when they focus on other issues in the dataset and facts outside of it. What does this even mean to you? Are we supposed to throw the drug out the window because a small subset of the population get side effects? Are we to sue Merck into oblivion for side effects they themselves admit to? Why not a gun company every time someone gets shot? Your conclusions don't lead anywhere different than where we are now.

 

Significant numbers of patients who claim finasteride side effects cannot reasonably attribute these to finasteride as shown by an extensive placebo group claiming side effects in every major study, act like the master of statistics and data analysis all you like to deny this, it's a fact. The mechanisms of finasterides causal influence on sexual dysfunction, fatigue, depression and other issues aren't understood in any concrete way either. The current models of understanding don't explain why 95% of users have no noitceable side effects at all, even in the long term.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with memetics. There are specific probabilities offered by various studies from the past twenty years of getting short term finasteride sides and those that are long term. Accept the risk or don't. There is also a significant group of people who attribute ailments to finasteride when there is a strong influence of the nocebo as shown by all major data sets including the one you linked.

 

And sorry if it offends you, but it is an issue that arises when the PFS propaganda brigade is partnering with law firms that they're linking, systematically posting propoganda on every last hair related video or forum they can find, with precision and in depth research on the issue while claiming they can't work or function in any form. Well clearly that is false when they are indeed working on their PFS crusade, it's just not useful to anyone else. The issue arises when PFS propogandists claim that data sets such as the FDA stat review are false, manipulated or a poor representation of accurate results. An issue arises when you focus on fear through clickbate titles like "propecia castrated me" rather than simply offering people the data. Another arises when you make an unsound bandwagon fallacy that your believes are accepted by the medical community, despite the multiple doctors I've talked to on the issue (including those taking the drug) saying it's among their most prescribed drugs, and those who attribute side effects to it are a few in a hundred, they've never had a patient with long term side effects and they don't see enough evidence to make firm conclusions on the nature of PFS.

 

Again, no one is arguing that the drug cannot be attributed to short or long term side effects. It's a question of the overall benefits, alternatives and whether the risks and probabilities are out in the open, which they are. You'd have the vast, vast majority of users suffer and not be able to make the decision at all because of your own rare, tiny minority problem. That's what it comes down to. Nothing more to say.

[JayLDD]

What did you learn from this thread that you didn't know coming in? I don't feel like anything new was said, it's the same ole info, which quickly degenerated into insults from both sides.

 

He's just sore I ruined him in another thread when he praised horrible work and enjoys me getting attacked from all angles.

[JayLDD]

What did you learn from this thread that you didn't know coming in? I don't feel like anything new was said, it's the same ole info, which quickly degenerated into insults from both sides.

 

He's just sore I ruined him in another thread when he praised Dr. W00ds horrible work and enjoys me getting attacked from all angles.

[10x12x6]

Significant numbers of patients who claim finasteride side effects cannot reasonably attribute these to finasteride as shown by an extensive placebo group claiming side effects in every major study, act like the master of statistics and data analysis all you like to deny this, it's a fact.

 

I know you think you're saying something safe, but you're really saying literal nothing. The truth is, we already know some people in the general population suffer from sexual dysfunction. So pointing out the placebo group also reported sexual dysfunction isn't the great "hur dur check mate fear mongers!" you think it is. You're just saying people sometimes have sexual problems. You're not even telling us something we don't already know. What we want to know, and what the methodology was designed to answer, is there a statistically significant difference between the finasteride group and age-related control group? That establishes causation between the drug and its effect. That's what we want to know. Does x have an effect on y? Does the Independent Variable have an effect on the Dependent Variable? Does Finasteride have an effect on sexual function? If so, at what months? 3 months? 6 months? etc. Those are the questions these methodologies are designed to answer. It's stated in the null hypothesis. The methodology isn't designed for these pubby talking points of "nocebo" and "percents." And no it doesn't even assess the severity or longevity of side effects. What's of interest is the between-group difference. And in all tested categories of sexual dysfunction, there was a statistically significant difference between finasteride and placebo. So when you point out the the percents of reported sexual side effects, you think you're helping your case but you're literally pointing to the inference that establishes the causal relationship between finasteride and sexual dysfunction.

 

There are epidemiological measures that can infer the risk of developing sexual dysfunction from finasteride. But it's far more complicated than you're making it out to be. You need to take into account things like days of exposure. In the "major studies" you keep referencing, patients took the drug for different amounts of time, and you're just assuming they all took it the same amount of time. That, among many other things, makes any conclusions you draw from these "percents" totally worthless. There's so much more wrong with your comment but I know exactly how you'll respond. And I'll roll my eyes at that reponse. I don't feel like explaining something to someone who really has no interest in learning.

Edited March 28, 2018 by 10x12x6

[JayLDD]

I know you think you're saying something safe, but you're really saying literal nothing. The truth is, we already know some people in the general population suffer from sexual dysfunction. So pointing out the placebo group also reported sexual dysfunction isn't the great "hur dur check mate fear mongers!" you think it is. You're just saying people sometimes have sexual problems. You're not even telling us something we don't already know. What we want to know, and what the methodology was designed to answer, is there a statistically significant difference between the finasteride group and age-related control group? That's what we want to know. Does x have an effect on y? Does the Independent Variable have an effect on the Dependent Variable? Does Finasteride have an effect on sexual function? If so, at what months? 3 months? 6 months? etc. Those are the questions these methodologies are designed to answer. It's stated in the null hypothesis. The methodology isn't designed for these pubby talking points of "nocebo" and "percents." And no it doesn't even assess the severity or longevity of side effects. What's of interest is the between-group difference. And in all tested categories of sexual dysfunction, there was a statistically significant difference between finasteride and placebo. So when you point out the the percents of reported sexual side effects, you think you're helping your case but you're literally pointing to the inference that establishes the causal relationship between finasteride and sexual dysfunction. There are epidemiological measures that can infer the risk of developing sexual dysfunction from finasteride. But it's far more complicated than you're making it out to be. You need to take into account things like days of exposure. In the "major studies" you keep referencing, patients took the drug for different amounts of time, and you're just assuming they all took it the same amount of time. That, among many other things, makes any conclusions you draw from these "percents" totally worthless. There's so much more wrong with your comment but I know exactly how you'll respond. And I'll roll my eyes at that reponse. I don't feel like explaining something to someone who really has no interest in learning.

 

"I know you think you're saying something safe, but you're really saying literal nothing. "

 

Look at every post you've made so far. All it amounts to is that finasteride can cause sexual dysfunction among other side effects based on the data. Again, as Mikey said nothing of note is being said that we didn't know. I already acknowledged this before you came raging in like a deranged, strawmanning bull in a china shop. Pot calling kettle black much.

 

You can roll your eyes all you like, what of note have you put forth that I and other posters hadn't acknowledged?

 

"There are epidemiological measures that can infer the risk of developing sexual dysfunction from finasteride"

 

Sources?

 

Only an idiot would suggest the percents don't matter. If the sample size was a million people, only a hundred had side effects but a causal relationship was found on the data, this is remarkably different than if a hundred thousand had side effects from the perspective of a potential user. You keep making an argument separate to the one others are making to counter them. It's laughable.

 

"And no it doesn't even assess the severity or longevity of side effects"

 

Its directly discussed in the FDA stat review, just because you choose to ignore it and act like the causal relationship is the only thing discussed at all in any study ever created doesn't make it so.

 

Enough of your garbage and strawmans.

[mrmoskowitz]

Hey man the side effects are real. I took Propecia in 2000 and in 2003 at age 25 I had sexual side effects. I kept taking it until 2005 when I stopped and I recovered from the sexual side effects in 2009. But from 2003 to 2009 my life pretty much sucked. I had to take Viagra for it to work, but it was never the same. Thankfully not having it in my body for 4 years was the only thing that helped - I tried everything I bought pills from loveaction.com or actionlove.com, I would boil broccoli and drink the juice, had a running regimen. I went to a Dr. who told me to see a therapist. I had extensive bloodwork and everything came back normal.

The reality is these drugs are dangerous and Dr’s don’t really know why certain drugs work and why side effects happen. You can take it but like anything it is a risk. You may never have side effects, or you may.

[Mark2010]

You will find that the only Doctors who say Propecia is "safe" have a vested interest in prescribing the drug.

 

 

 

[JayLDD]

You will find that the only Doctors who say Propecia is "safe" have a vested interest in prescribing the drug.

 

 

 

 

And this is the type of conspiratorial nonsense that I'm talking about. My doctor didn't even recommend brand or a specific generic, this makes absolutely zero sense.

[Mark2010]

And this is the type of conspiratorial nonsense that I'm talking about. My doctor didn't even recommend brand or a specific generic, this makes absolutely zero sense.

 

It's not conspiratorial most GPs in Europe refuse to prescribe Propecia/Finasteride for hair loss.

[ej]

What did you learn from this thread that you didn't know coming in? I don't feel like anything new was said, it's the same ole info, which quickly degenerated into insults from both sides.

 

 

I did not say I had learnt anything from this thread. What I did say was that there

is some good information within this thread, perhaps that may be useful for someone reading and considering medication.

[ej]

He's just sore I ruined him in another thread when he praised Dr. W00ds horrible work and enjoys me getting attacked from all angles.

 

 

 

Pah ! It is amusing though seeing you get torn a new one by 10x12x6

 

If it was a boxing bout it would have been stopped ages ago

[JayLDD]

Pah ! It is amusing though seeing you get torn a new one by 10x12x6

 

If it was a boxing bout it would have been stopped ages ago

 

He was arguing against points I never made. I stated that I acknowledge the causal relationship between various sides and fin three times but he kept attacking saying I didn't understand the data, then arguing what I'd already said and proceeding to call me an idiot. He also kept arguing that percentages weren't relevant and only the fundamental null hypothesis of the review determining a link between variables mattered which is blatantly false. Percentages matter 100% from the perspective of anyone looking to take the drug, not just a causal relationship.

 

We'd already established your mind isn't particularly nuanced so I don't expect much but to avoid more embarrassment try actually looking at what the arguments being made are, rather than just jumping on whatever side I'm against.

[ej]

He was arguing against points I never made. I stated that I acknowledge the causal relationship between various sides and fin three times but he kept attacking saying I didn't understand the data, then arguing what I'd already said and proceeding to call me an idiot. He also kept arguing that percentages weren't relevant and only the fundamental null hypothesis of the review determining a link between variables mattered which is blatantly false. Percentages matter 100% from the perspective of anyone looking to take the drug, not just a causal relationship.

 

We'd already established your mind isn't particularly nuanced so I don't expect much but to avoid more embarrassment try actually looking at what the arguments being made are, rather than just jumping on whatever side I'm against.

 

 

Oh please ... give it up you are embarrassing. The above is your modus operandi. You claimed I made statements that I never made, on the thread you claim you `ruined` me in .......

 

You know the one you took hours out of your day to trawl through youtube with ten year old results from a doctor you do not like, to try and discredit him.

 

Only to then get totally owned by a happy patient of that doctor who posted to say how `happy` he was ..... You know first hand experience, actual patient experience, happy with his outcome overjoyed in fact!!! That resulted in zero comment from you because just like 10x12x42 owned you ......

 

You got totally owned .....

[JayLDD]

Oh please ... give it up you are embarrassing. The above is your modus operandi. You claimed I made statements that I never made, on the thread you claim you `ruined` me in .......

 

You know the one you took hours out of your day to trawl through youtube with ten year old results from a doctor you do not like, to try and discredit him.

 

Only to then get totally owned by a happy patient of that doctor who posted to say how `happy` he was ..... You know first hand experience, actual patient experience, happy with his outcome overjoyed in fact!!! That resulted in zero comment from you because just like 10x12x42 owned you ......

 

You got totally owned .....

 

Care to say what what those points you never made that I attributed to you were?

 

I literally said he was correct on the fact that the study confirms a causal link between fin and sides which he said I was denying by mentioning the placebo group. How much clearer can I get? If I'm outright saying his point is correct, why does he continue to attack and call me an idiot? Because he's another deranged propagandist, more interested in making noise than being honest or accurate.

 

"You know the one you took hours out of your day to trawl through youtube with ten year old results from a doctor you do not like, to try and discredit him. "

 

Maybe there's something wrong with your internet connection (or your head?) but it doesn't take hours to search a doctors work on Google or Youtube. More absurd attacks from rabid dogs frothing at the mouth.

[Gasthoerer]

It's not conspiratorial most GPs in Europe refuse to prescribe Propecia/Finasteride for hair loss.

 

Did you just made this up by yourself? Or do you actually wanted to say that FIN is typically prescribed by a dermatologist in europe...

[Legend007]

There really wasn’t much information I learned from this thread .. only thing I want to know about propecia . Is from people that has tried it.. will it really thicken up with ur current hair ? Will u be able to sustain ur baseline when u started the meds? So far for me .. it’s been 7 months .. n my hair feels thinner with loss of volume than last year . Mpb is winning right now . . it’s not a wonder drug as I hoped .. the side effects .. kinda minor .. less morning wood , less needing to watch porn .. but I think the side effects are less now after 7 months.. I’m getting morning wood lately .. n erections are strong again .. I think my body has gotten used to propecia now .. so no worries about sides .. it’s the effectiveness of the drug itself I am unsure of .. did I start on the meds too late .. cuz my hair has gotten too miniaturized n I’m in my late 30’s now . So propecia doesn’t all of a sudden just make ur hairs thicker again or regrow old follicles.. . only positive thing I feel so far is my hair doesnt fall out as much .. like when I shake my head . Hair doesn’t feel as fragile .. but yeah at this rate , losing hair every day n not being able to regrow new hair .. propecia isn’t all that awesome .. it helps .. but it’s no miracle drug ..

[MeetYourMaker]

1) Side effects are real. I have experienced :

 

- Bloated face due to excessive estrogen ratio against T

- TMJ (the only side effect that stuck with me after discounting the drug)

- Female type weight gain, lost my jawline

- Losing facial hair, beard, eyebrow

- ED

- Slurred speech

- Brain fog

- No sex drive

- Gyno

 

Did Propecia work for my hair? Hell yes. I was NW4 when i started, it made me NW1.5 in 7 months. Vertex / Crown was totally bald, it filled %70 of it. Receded hairline came back.

 

I had an extended blood test and results showed my endocrine system is wrecked by this poison.

 

2) PFS is real. Luckily i never experienced it.

 

3) If you call someone "douchebag" cause he warns people about Propecia, you are the real douchebag here. You cant tell people "take it like a candy" you should ALWAYS warn people that consider to take it.

 

4) Propecia's long-term effects are still unknown. Merck can add a new side effect in 2025 and just keep selling this.

 

5) Propecia's effect on neurosteroids are still unknown. Everyone talks about sexual sides but you cannot know what this drug does to your brain. You. Cannot. Know. Period. Experiencing no sides in your penis does not mean this drug does not harm your endocrine system.

 

Read the VICE / TONIC's paper before making comments about this poison :

 

https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/gqywem/the-medical-mystery-behind-americas-best-selling-hair-loss-drug

[Legend007]

Norwood 4 to 1.5 ehh .. u think we stupid or something ? Everything u said is complete bullshit just by that one sentence .. if u don’t like propeica and don’t want to use it it’s fine .. but don’t be going around spreading lies and stopping others from taking mediciation for their hairloss ..

[Gasthoerer]

1) Side effects are real. I have experienced :

 

- Bloated face due to excessive estrogen ratio against T

- TMJ (the only side effect that stuck with me after discounting the drug)

- Female type weight gain, lost my jawline

- Losing facial hair, beard, eyebrow

- ED

- Slurred speech

- Brain fog

- No sex drive

- Gyno

 

Did Propecia work for my hair? Hell yes. I was NW4 when i started, it made me NW1.5 in 7 months. Vertex / Crown was totally bald, it filled %70 of it. Receded hairline came back.

Norwood 4 to 1.5 ehh .. u think we stupid or something ? Everything u said is complete bullshit just by that one sentence

 

+1 Typically mistake by the anti-FIN brigade. They want to gain credibility by adding the pros of FIN and embarasse themselves by statements like this. In the last discussion in this forum someone claimed he had 50 % improvement or sth like that in 1 (in words: ONE !) week. Everyone who knows about hairloss knows this is impossible. NW4 to 1.5 is impossible in 7 weeks on FIN as well.

[MeetYourMaker]

+1 Typically mistake by the anti-FIN brigade. They want to gain credibility by adding the pros of FIN and embarasse themselves by statements like this. In the last discussion in this forum someone claimed he had 50 % improvement or sth like that in 1 (in words: ONE !) week. Everyone who knows about hairloss knows this is impossible. NW4 to 1.5 is impossible in 7 weeks on FIN as well.

 

I said 7 months, not weeks.

 

Yeah, you look like a stupid guy, Legend007.

[MeetYourMaker]

First photo : November 2016 - starting fin 1mg / day only

 

Second photo : May 2017 - stopped taking it after 1 or 2 weeks after this photo.

 

Merck needs more people like you, keep defending this s.hit and take it like a candy, boys.

[Legend007]

Wow those are awesome results .. I’m staying on the meds for sure now .. can’t believe u quit something that works for u .. If finasteride works half as well as it did for u .. I be more than grateful.. I got high testosterone n a big dik for my size so sexual effects don’t worry me so much .. I’m able to keep my girl happy .. I just need something that actually helps me maintain my hair .n hair transplants to give me back what I lost.. I like having good looks n confidence in myself ..

It helps me stay positive and motivated.. good luck to u bro ..

[mattj]

First photo : November 2016 - starting fin 1mg / day only

 

Second photo : May 2017 - stopped taking it after 1 or 2 weeks after this photo.

 

Merck needs more people like you, keep defending this s.hit and take it like a candy, boys.

 

Looks like a very good response. Do you have any photos showing the difference it made for your hairline? That's the area that usually doesn't see as much regrowth.