2500 grafts with Dr Steven Gable

[UKLad81]

Looking good buddy and glad to hear that the shedding has stopped! Fingers crossed you're an early grower!

 

What's the deal with black seed oil? Never heard of it but interested to know your thoughts.

[MattyNJ1]

Congratulation for after HT new look is very nice.

 

Thank you : ]

[MattyNJ1]

Looking good buddy and glad to hear that the shedding has stopped! Fingers crossed you're an early grower!

 

What's the deal with black seed oil? Never heard of it but interested to know your thoughts.

 

Ironically i discovered BlackSeed Oil when trying to treat a Histamine Intolerance (disorder) I believe i got as a reaction to using Finasteride. (long story). I started getting pruritus and urticaria (itchy with hives) Histamine is basically a chemical response the body puts out when its having an allergic reaction.

 

BSO is truly a miraculous oil that cures many issues ...even kills cancer cells. And one of the effects its ability to regrow hair. According to studies. Search it out, here are a couple links: https://draxe.com/black-seed-oil-benefits/

https://www.betternutrition.com/checkout/black-seed-oil-benefits

[lukeyb1687]

BSO is incredible stuff! Glad that it's helped with fin side effects! I'm a huge natural holistic guy, would rather heal my body that way rather than chemically produced compounds. For your Danny routine name sure that you take vitamins from a whole food source not a chemically produced source. Usually will say in the bottle

[Animo]

It looks really good, nice work from a top doctor. congrats man, the best bit is to come when you see the little buggers growing as the months go on.

 

Can I ask how old you are?

[MattyNJ1]

It looks really good, nice work from a top doctor. congrats man, the best bit is to come when you see the little buggers growing as the months go on.

 

Can I ask how old you are?

 

Thanks for the positive words, during the not-so-positive time of a HT. Iam hoping for the best...I said to myself from the beginning when i decided to move fwd, I cant come out of this any worse than i started, so i hope iam right about that....Iam 49 now, 50 this coming Sept. when i should see about 90% growth i would think....

[MattyNJ1]

BSO is incredible stuff! Glad that it's helped with fin side effects! I'm a huge natural holistic guy, would rather heal my body that way rather than chemically produced compounds. For your Danny routine name sure that you take vitamins from a whole food source not a chemically produced source. Usually will say in the bottle

 

Same here. I eat completely organic / grass fed / free range, even grow a lot of my own produce most of the year!~ I reluctantly tried Fin last July for about 3 months, and it really worked great i saw results very quickly, but developed this "condition" as i call it as i really don't know what it is...Suddenly out of no where had an allergic reaction to pretty much everything i ate. Making a very long story /journey short.. I cant say for sure if it was Fin, but i have a Histamine Intolerance now that iam left with. I eat clean, run everyday, and take alot of high end supplements. I stopped Fin / minoxidil and decided to do the HT, without any Rx or Chemicals, (other than Rivivogen shampoo), and let the chips fall where they may...

[MattyNJ1]

(1 MONTH) POST HT Today.

 

Made it to 1 month, time goes by pretty quick. Donor area has fully healed, no pain...getting some pimples in both the donor area and the recipient areas.

 

Recipient area still has significant redness and also is still slightly numb. I get a tingly sensation the past week or so at night laying in bed, maybe the nerves just returning or follicle activity?..hoping the latter...

 

I know its early on, and at the risk of sounding redundant, iam very concerned about shock loss. The pics are in full day light outside, and i have a lot less hair on the top of my head then when i started, and it worries me...its more thin than before the procedure for sure.

 

Other than that the shedding is over, the recipient area looks as it should at this stage, and i may get a hair cut at this point. Fingers crossed for alot of good growth (including my native shock loss) I will post in a month or so. thanks for the kind words and encouragement

Edited January 11, 2018 by MattyNJ1

[hairlossPA]

good lucky matty. i’m following your case and looking into Gable as well for my HT. don’t sweat the small stuff. many people seem to worry in the first 1-3 months and then have a homerun 5 months later. i understand the concern though. i would feel the same lol. easier said than done

[hsrp10]

Solid words from hairlossPA.

Month 0 is where all the adrenalin and excitement kicks in, but months 1-3 are the hardest part as the new hairs shed and you return back to basically square one.

 

I had three procedures with Konior who trained Gabel and both docs are known for producing some rather early growth based on my experience and other patient's stories.

 

By around 2.5 months or maybe slightly thereafter things should start to happen with initial growth (not always but there is a good chance).

Good luck and keep everything clean while avoiding heavy sun and and major head bumps or injuries.

[MattyNJ1]

good lucky matty. i’m following your case and looking into Gable as well for my HT. don’t sweat the small stuff. many people seem to worry in the first 1-3 months and then have a homerun 5 months later. i understand the concern though. i would feel the same lol. easier said than done

 

Thanks man. All my faith is in Dr. G going thru this phase...I agree 9 out of 10 of these stories has a happy ending and im hoping im one of them for sure...

[MattyNJ1]

Solid words from hairlossPA.

Month 0 is where all the adrenalin and excitement kicks in, but months 1-3 are the hardest part as the new hairs shed and you return back to basically square one.

 

I had three procedures with Konior who trained Gabel and both docs are known for producing some rather early growth based on my experience and other patient's stories.

 

By around 2.5 months or maybe slightly thereafter things should start to happen with initial growth (not always but there is a good chance).

Good luck and keep everything clean while avoiding heavy sun and and major head bumps or injuries.

 

Early growth would be a great sign! Yeah Konior & Gable are the best in the country IMO Dr. G spoke alot to me of their friendship and working relationship during my visit for my procedure, and he sounds like a very ethical surgeon for sure.

[MattyNJ1]

3.5 month update:

Reached the 3 month mark on March 11th, and took some photos that day...now 2weeks later ive taken a couple more.

 

May hair is fully grown back to the same length as the day i had the procedure, but the problem is i have A LOT less of it. My hair is at least 30% thinner now than when i started. And im not talking about my donor area...im talking about the top of my head that didn't have any HT, yet seems to have suffered collateral damage.

 

I've noted my concerns with "shock loss" since the beginning of this journey. My 1st wash after the procedure the sink was just littered with stubble (shock loss) and i was very concerned as ive read some horror stories about it not growing back it....(lets face it.. it permanent shock loss wasnt a possibility then it wouldn't be listed in the surgeons liability waiver.)

 

My hair now doesn't even cover my scalp in daylight at the moment, and iam very concerned about permanent (collateral) damage to my native hair. So despite my (native) hair fully grown back, i cant even been in daylight without looking like a diffuse thinner or a cancer patient growing back from chemo. This has me very concerned.

 

That being said, i haven't been able to get a straight answer .. to exact questions pertaining to shock loss return.

1) what % is permanent loss?

2) what is the timeline for shock loss follicles to regenerate and grow back permanently as compared to the new graft cycles?

 

How long should it take for shock loss to return? ...as long as the transplanted grafts?

very worried....

 

as for the "transplanted" new front hair line area, im just starting to notice some shadowy signs of growth now. Noticed a 2nd shed of the transplanted grafts over the past few weeks after shampooing small stubble from the front. Must've been the new growth kicking out the existing follicles for new ones to come.

 

Sorry i dont have more positive news, but its all a bit concerning right now...i mean, what's the point of a new front hairline if the entire top of your hair thinned out from the procedure??!

Edited March 24, 2018 by MattyNJ1
Add pics

[PSJohnny]

Wow Matt, just saw your thread. Did you talk to the doctor about this? I think you're still a little early in being concerned even if you're thinking the top is looking a little thin. Can anyone else chime in on this about shock loss happening in an area where he didn't have the HT done? I'm very surprised in seeing this; I'm no expert but I've seen plenty of results on this forum and have never seen shock loss happening in area where the person didn't even have the HT. I'll agree with you when you're saying there's some thinning; do you have any pictures to compare it to? Maybe consider taking supplements such as Biotin and possibly consider Propecia. Hopefully this is just a phase or something and it'll start thickening up.

[Legend007]

Keep us updated okay ..

It’s also my biggest fear ..getting the side effects of transplant .. extreme redness .. bumpy skin , n shock loss . The doctors make it seem like it’s no big deal n should resolve itself eventually .. because it’s something they can’t predict .. but yeah .. common sense is when u cause trauma to ur scalp it can’t be good . N if ur native hair around the recipient area is impacted..

Yeah u going to lose hair around transplanted area.. either by trauma / shockloss n other factors.. doctors say if u on finasteride or if u over 30 shock loss is minimal .. so hopefully the loss Hairs will grow back.

[Spanker]

Hey Matty,

 

Hope things are starting to progress. It can takes about 6 months to recover from shock.

Are you on fin? I remember you were apprehensive about it and started and said you may cycle on and off of it? Did you do that?

 

Also, in rare occasions, you can shock out hair that was on it's way out and it doesn't bounce fully back. Looking at your pics, you did have thinning hair before the procedure throughout. I would strongly suggest getting on finasteride daily without cycling and sticking with it.

 

I believe if you grow your hair out and comb it by month 6 or 7 you'll have bounced back more and your transplant will start showing you the direction its heading for month 12, but you won't get more hair that you already had in areas that weren't transplanted.

 

Its early days. Seriously consider a steady fin regiment though because I do think you are patterned for advanced loss without it.

 

Good luck!

[Windjammer]

Wow Matt, just saw your thread. Did you talk to the doctor about this? I think you're still a little early in being concerned even if you're thinking the top is looking a little thin. Can anyone else chime in on this about shock loss happening in an area where he didn't have the HT done? I'm very surprised in seeing this; I'm no expert but I've seen plenty of results on this forum and have never seen shock loss happening in area where the person didn't even have the HT. I'll agree with you when you're saying there's some thinning; do you have any pictures to compare it to? Maybe consider taking supplements such as Biotin and possibly consider Propecia. Hopefully this is just a phase or something and it'll start thickening up.

 

Unfortunately, shock loss can definitely extend beyond the recipient zone and there has been cases on here detailing that very issue. It tends to affect those that have minor or diffuse loss in the adjacent areas to the surgery; these are weaker hairs, which makes them more susceptible to shock out. The injections and overall trauma to the scalp for these surgeries is considerable, and how each of us reacts to it is hard to predict. It's something anyone considering a transplant needs to always take into consideration in terms of possible risks.

 

Having said the above, Matt, I feel for you and truly hope your situation improves with time. Hoping to see when you're at six months things take a turn for the better. Keep us posted.

[MattyNJ1]

Hey Matty,

 

Hope things are starting to progress. It can takes about 6 months to recover from shock.

Are you on fin? I remember you were apprehensive about it and started and said you may cycle on and off of it? Did you do that?

 

Also, in rare occasions, you can shock out hair that was on it's way out and it doesn't bounce fully back. Looking at your pics, you did have thinning hair before the procedure throughout. I would strongly suggest getting on finasteride daily without cycling and sticking with it.

 

I believe if you grow your hair out and comb it by month 6 or 7 you'll have bounced back more and your transplant will start showing you the direction its heading for month 12, but you won't get more hair that you already had in areas that weren't transplanted.

 

Its early days. Seriously consider a steady fin regiment though because I do think you are patterned for advanced loss without it.

 

Good luck!

 

I went on Fin for 2 months, and then mysteriously started to developed severe hives and itching out of nowhere...i still cant explain this condition but cant help but assume it was from the Fin. Ive have zero health issues or allergies and the ONLY thing i changed in my life was adding that Rx....so i stopped using it....despite it working quite well.

 

That being said i dont think id agree that im on a pattern for "advanced loss" as you put it...ive had thick hair my entire life, and only started to thin in recent years..im going to be 50 this summer so, YES iam thinning for sure, but not sure its full speed ahead for advanced loss....my Doc didn't mention anything like that either. But did note some miniaturization on the the back crown area.

 

We transplanted a total of over 7000 hairs (2500 grafts with a 2.5 average) thats alot of hair ...most went into the front triangular section of the scalp, fortifying the very front hairline with most, then with more mixed in with the native hair going back into the front, and then about 400 o/ 500 in the thinning crown area...(which may need more later). It was a very smart use of the amount of grafts, addressing most of the concerns in order of importance.

 

Since this update, there has been noticeable improvement of the front hair line NEW growth, as well as some overall density of my native hair, and what i hope is shock loss returning.

 

I agree with you, Fin was very effective, and would offer alot more from my HT, however there are just too many risks with that drug that unfortunately out weight the pros... I went into this with the intent on being completely drug free, as many do. And iam a firm believer that a HT is NOT contingent on Fin to be successful...

 

I think in the months to come i will have a good outcome, just hoping for a good density turn out from the procedure...iam confident in my surgeon Dr Gable, and i will revisit the crown area with perhaps another small transplant maybe next year IF my thinning advances.

 

Thanks for your reply I will update in a couple of months!

[Spanker]

I'm glad to hear you are starting to bounce back.

 

I do not think fin is required for a successful procedure, but I do think for many people it can be the difference in short term gains and long term success. Considering that you responded well to fin as far as your hair goes, you could be above your base line while on it for a decade or more. Without it, you will only go below base line.

 

If you are understand that, then i think you're making an informed decision.

 

The other part is that you actually are patterned for advanced hairloss. When I say "patterend", I mean, you have hair there, but you have miniaturization. That really is not a debatable point. You've been lucky up to now, but without some medical intervention your natural pattern showing right now will continue to thin. I know it isn't good news, but I see people all the time that are unaware or in denial of their state. I would put you as patterned as a 3V headed to NW4 with your crown a little more open. You seem like a diffused thinner so maybe that made you a little more susceptible to the shock you had.

 

You have an awesome doctor, and I am sure that your transplant is going to turn out well, I just want you to consider maintaining the result your going to get.

 

Anyway, I wont bother you any more about fin and good luck. Please keep us posted.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Spanker

[Legend007]

Thanks for the information spanker.. it makes total

Sense ,, n logically I can apply that logic to my own hair loss..

[MattyNJ1]

Spanker...lol, i promise you, you are not bothering me about Fin...and i actually appreciate your input, and agree with you for the most part. Although not sure if i interpreted your point here?

 

Considering that you responded well to fin as far as your hair goes, you could be above your base line while on it for a decade or more. Without it, you will only go below base line.

 

If you are understand that, then i think you're making an informed decision.

Youre saying i did, or didnt make an informed decision by NOT using Fin?

 

Truth be told, I battle with going back on Fin everyday, knowing i had incredible results with it...but in reality Fin is a very controversial drug, with a lot of risk.....I still don't know if my "episode" of Pruritus and then becoming "histamine intolerant" was related to Fin, but it's hard to rule it out considering i've never been allergic to ANYTHING in my life, and iam 100% healthy. I still till this day (nearly 7 months later) get itchy for no apparent reason after meals...apparently this is called a histamine intolerance , caused by unstable mast cells producing histamine for no apparent reason as a defense mechanism ....its completely bizarre and all happened after using that drug for only 3 months....

 

As far as the NW scale i agree absolutely a 3 Vertex heading into the 4v range for sure. Although I said that to Gable and he told me i was a NW ll ..so... lol....so no denial here!

 

I think i should have another 2000 in the bank (i hope) to do one more HT to fortify my thinning back crown area, and that will hopefully get me across the finish line ....at least that's the plan. If not?....oh well, such is life if im a NW 5 in my late 60s so be it! ....

 

I respect and welcome your comments, knowledge and opinions please don't hesitate to speak your mind, anytime... Thanks

[Legend007]

U look great for ur age Matt..

[Spanker]

Spanker...lol, i promise you, you are not bothering me about Fin...and i actually appreciate your input, and agree with you for the most part. Although not sure if i interpreted your point here?

 

Youre saying i did, or didnt make an informed decision by NOT using Fin?

 

Truth be told, I battle with going back on Fin everyday, knowing i had incredible results with it...but in reality Fin is a very controversial drug, with a lot of risk.....I still don't know if my "episode" of Pruritus and then becoming "histamine intolerant" was related to Fin, but it's hard to rule it out considering i've never been allergic to ANYTHING in my life, and iam 100% healthy. I still till this day (nearly 7 months later) get itchy for no apparent reason after meals...apparently this is called a histamine intolerance , caused by unstable mast cells producing histamine for no apparent reason as a defense mechanism ....its completely bizarre and all happened after using that drug for only 3 months....

 

As far as the NW scale i agree absolutely a 3 Vertex heading into the 4v range for sure. Although I said that to Gable and he told me i was a NW ll ..so... lol....so no denial here!

 

I think i should have another 2000 in the bank (i hope) to do one more HT to fortify my thinning back crown area, and that will hopefully get me across the finish line ....at least that's the plan. If not?....oh well, such is life if im a NW 5 in my late 60s so be it! ....

 

I respect and welcome your comments, knowledge and opinions please don't hesitate to speak your mind, anytime... Thanks

 

Hey Matty,

 

I'm saying that if you realize the areas that you and were thinning, and that these areas will get worse without medical intervention, then you made an informed decision, based on the risk vs reward that is acceptable to you in terms of sides.

I can say that lot of changes happen as we age in addition to hairloss, and a lot of people are quick to point to fin as the cause. Unlike yours though, a lot of it is age related (no morning wood, weight gain, etc), all things that happen to people every day off of fin.

 

For me, a decade with as much hair as I started on, and maybe even 15 years was worth the trade off. I believe that some people just can't tolerate it, but for me, it would have to be something that I absolutely couldn't tolerate for me to discontinue.

 

I know some guys try like a .25mg and up it slowly and that worked for them too. For someone who did respond so well, it would be hard for me not to try something. You will never get back as much hair as you will by starting today, the longer your off the less you will get back. You responded better than most. A lot don't grow much back, they just maintain.

 

It sounds like you understand where you're at and the risks. Overall, I think you'll be happy in 9 months, but the front will look good enough you'll wish you had more behind it, which I believe fin will do for you.

[MattyNJ1]

Hey Matty,

 

I'm saying that if you realize the areas that you and were thinning, and that these areas will get worse without medical intervention, then you made an informed decision, based on the risk vs reward that is acceptable to you in terms of sides.

I can say that lot of changes happen as we age in addition to hairloss, and a lot of people are quick to point to fin as the cause. Unlike yours though, a lot of it is age related (no morning wood, weight gain, etc), all things that happen to people every day off of fin.

 

For me, a decade with as much hair as I started on, and maybe even 15 years was worth the trade off. I believe that some people just can't tolerate it, but for me, it would have to be something that I absolutely couldn't tolerate for me to discontinue.

 

I know some guys try like a .25mg and up it slowly and that worked for them too. For someone who did respond so well, it would be hard for me not to try something. You will never get back as much hair as you will by starting today, the longer your off the less you will get back. You responded better than most. A lot don't grow much back, they just maintain.

 

It sounds like you understand where you're at and the risks. Overall, I think you'll be happy in 9 months, but the front will look good enough you'll wish you had more behind it, which I believe fin will do for you.

 

I agree, Fin grew back alot of hair mainly on my back crown area....If i did go back on,i would get the 1mg tabs and take .25mg e.d.....id like to prove this condition was something else other than Fin side effects, like you said the body changes as you get older. But its still a gamble, with ED and sexual sides.

 

Glad to hear Fin worked for you, i ckd out your blog, seems you're about a decade younger than me? ...funny i had more hair than you 10yrs ago! Alot changes in 10yrs thats for sure...late 40s are rough, it happens overnite! Its good that you were proactive back then. You never experienced any sides with Fin?

 

Im starting to see alot of growth in the front everyday now, im hoping the density will thicken over the next few months, but I agree...going to need more in the back crown. Ill prob schedule another HT this next winter for 1500 grafts in the crown ...Im hoping i have at least that much in my donor...

[MattyNJ1]

U look great for ur age Matt..

 

Thanks! I take good care of myself, run everyday! Cheers!