Dr. Koray Erdogan at ASMED Recommended 5000 Grafts?

[Norwoody]

So I got an online consult from Dr. Koray Erdogan at ASMED. He has gotten some good reviews on here. However, many people have noticed that the number of transplants he recommends is higher than other physicians.

I'm sitting somewhere between a NW2 and NW3 with some diffuse thinning on the top of my head. Shockloss is a concern of mine.

 

Dr. Koray Erdogan recommended I get 5000 grafts. This seems like a lot to me. I'm including the exact pictures I sent the doctor (except with my identity hidden.) to get your opinions.

I used some powerful light on these photos. In dimmer light my hairline actually looks pretty good.

Also, in the consult form I said multiple times that I previously had sexual sides from Finasteride and yet in the consult he recommended I use it. I sent a second email with the both these concerns and in response they stood by their initial consult.

 

Let me know if you guys think that 5000 grafts is reasonable with my case.

 

Thanks!

[Bill - Seemiller]

Norwoody

 

Welcome to our hair restoration forum. Dr. Erdogan is top notch so I'm sure there's a reason why he's suggesting so many grafts. That said, I'd like to hear his explanation because by looking at your photos, it does seem like you still have a lot of natural hair and 5000 grafts is higher than I would expect. What were some of the other quotes you received? Did Dr. Erdogan explain why the number of grafts he suggested is so high?

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Norwoody]

Thanks for the reply, Bill.

 

About a year ago I was looking into surgeons but was having difficulty finding one that I trusted at a price I could afford. I received two consults using different pictures. One consult was estimated at 1200 grafts and the other consult was 2000 - 2500.

 

This was his office response to my two concerns:

 

"thank you for your Mail. Kindly be informed, that you have many telogen hair. This means, you have many weak hair which is already thinning and which you will continue to lose. Therefore, the Doctor recommends you the usage of Finasteride in order to maintain and optimise your original hair and also to avoid shockloss. But if you don't want to use it, we will respect it. It's up to you!

 

Dr. Koray can see on your Photos that your hair loss is in all areas and it will not be enough to achieve a natural and satisfied density with a smaller number of Grafts."

[JayLDD]

You are nowhere near a norwood 2-3 and your hairline is borderline non existent. Diffusing also in a norwood 5 pattern.

 

Without knowing how quickly you are thinning, it should still be said that getting a 2000-2500 graft transplant if you weren't on finasteride would be disastrous. Most hairline procedures alone utilise more than that and you have major thinning across a norwood 5 area. Do you want to fill in a hairline, wait a few years until you are completely bald behind it so it looks ridiculous and then get another transplant, or fill in the entire area now?

 

Even a 0.25mg microdose of fin would do you more good than a transplant in the long run, but if you get one without medication keep your expectations reasonable. Do you want to fill in the entire balding area so even if you lose more hair you will have decent coverage across the scalp, or do you want a hairline that is going to look ridiculous in a year or two as you lose coverage elsewhere across the entire norwood 5 area?

[Norwoody]

You are nowhere near a norwood 2-3 and your hairline is borderline non existent. Diffusing also in a norwood 5 pattern.

 

Without knowing how quickly you are thinning, it should still be said that getting a 2000-2500 graft transplant if you weren't on finasteride would be disastrous. Most hairline procedures alone utilise more than that and you have major thinning across a norwood 5 area. Do you want to fill in a hairline, wait a few years until you are completely bald behind it so it looks ridiculous and then get another transplant, or fill in the entire area now?

 

Even a 0.25mg microdose of fin would do you more good than a transplant in the long run, but if you get one without medication keep your expectations reasonable. Do you want to fill in the entire balding area so even if you lose more hair you will have decent coverage across the scalp, or do you want a hairline that is going to look ridiculous in a year or two as you lose coverage elsewhere across the entire norwood 5 area?

 

Hello Jean,

i would like to keep the hairline I currently have or even start the implants a little behind my current hairline and just thicken it out. I'm worried with 5000 grafts I'll have massive shock loss and it will use up a good portion of my reserves for future transplants.

 

I have included an image that overlays a NW 3 over my lateral view.

[JayLDD]

In shape yes, but in terms of diffusing you are going on a norwood 5. Finasteride will help you a hell of a lot more than 2000-2500 grafts which will do virtually nothing and create problems down the road.

Also no reason to be worried about shock loss considering you aren't on finasteride so you will lose all of those hairs in a few years anyway.

 

 

It makes little sense to be worrying about "reserves" considering you would end up using them anyway if you're not on fin and your balding pattern is already very obvious. 5000 today across the whole scalp is no different than 2500 now and 2500 in a few years, which is what you will end up with if you opt for a small transplant but you will achieve a lesser result in the short term, its harder to plan and will incur more travel expenses, time out of work and hassle. A transplanted patch in the middle of your head with nothing in front or behind is not a good look which is what you would have with 2500 grafts after a few years more of balding.

 

I'd try a microdose of fin first, but if you're not up for that then a large megassession is ideal.

[Norwoody]

In shape yes, but in terms of diffusing you are going on a norwood 5. Finasteride will help you a hell of a lot more than 2000-2500 grafts which will do virtually nothing and create problems down the road.

Also no reason to be worried about shock loss considering you aren't on finasteride so you will lose all of those hairs in a few years anyway.

 

 

It makes little sense to be worrying about "reserves" considering you would end up using them anyway if you're not on fin and your balding pattern is already very obvious. 5000 today across the whole scalp is no different than 2500 now and 2500 in a few years, which is what you will end up with if you opt for a small transplant but you will achieve a lesser result in the short term, its harder to plan and will incur more travel expenses, time out of work and hassle. A transplanted patch in the middle of your head with nothing in front or behind is not a good look which is what you would have with 2500 grafts after a few years more of balding.

 

I'd try a microdose of fin first, but if you're not up for that then a large megassession is ideal.

 

Ok, thanks for the reply. This is why I come to these forums. It gives me good food for thought

[HairDew]

I agree with JeanLucBergman. You are a diffuse thinner. You will need more grafts to cover them all because you are going towards NW5 and within a couple of years you will lose even more of that hair in the middle.

 

I also want to comment on Dr. Erdogan's "excessive" graft counts. He usually takes a "one and done" approach. But even having some donor left, he will take a homogeneous approach. So if you need more grafts later on, he will transplant them in a way where your entire head will look the same. He did exactly that with Dr. Umut (an anesthesiologist at ASMED). He had 6k grafts transplanted and even though he doesn't have a very dense result, his entire head looks the same.

You can check out Dr. Umut's results here:

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/181820-dr-koray-erdogan-6008-grafts-performed-dr-umut-kartal-asmed-staff.html

Edited August 2, 2017 by HairDew

[mikeyhwk]

I actually had more hair than you did from the pics you showed, and am also a diffuse loss patient and I over 2 procedures have had 4600 grafts put in so I don't think the 5k is too high at all. You are definitely not a nw2-3 you're trending to nw 5. Finasteride for our hair loss pattern works better than average so if you can go the every other day route or even the topical route which I hear is showing good results with no systemic sides, it could help your hair significantly. Shock loss with diffusion is definitely a possibility so you want to strengthen your hair the best you can pre procedure and that's where fin would help. I still got shock loss both procedures but nothing that didn't come back the 1st time, and I'm expecting, and praying it does this time as well. It took out healthy hair both times, as I said completely back the 1st time and only 1.5 months post op so wait and see mode currently.

[OzzyBoy]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 4:11 AM, Norwoody said:

So I got an online consult from Dr. Koray Erdogan at ASMED. He has gotten some good reviews on here. However, many people have noticed that the number of transplants he recommends is higher than other physicians.

I'm sitting somewhere between a NW2 and NW3 with some diffuse thinning on the top of my head. Shockloss is a concern of mine.

 

Dr. Koray Erdogan recommended I get 5000 grafts. This seems like a lot to me. I'm including the exact pictures I sent the doctor (except with my identity hidden.) to get your opinions.

I used some powerful light on these photos. In dimmer light my hairline actually looks pretty good.

Also, in the consult form I said multiple times that I previously had sexual sides from Finasteride and yet in the consult he recommended I use it. I sent a second email with the both these concerns and in response they stood by their initial consult.

 

Let me know if you guys think that 5000 grafts is reasonable with my case.

 

Thanks!

 

Hi Norwoody, did you end up going ahead with this, with Dr Erdogan? Did you go back onto Finasteride? 

[OzzyBoy]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 4:49 AM, JeanLDD said:

You are nowhere near a norwood 2-3 and your hairline is borderline non existent. Diffusing also in a norwood 5 pattern.

 

Without knowing how quickly you are thinning, it should still be said that getting a 2000-2500 graft transplant if you weren't on finasteride would be disastrous. Most hairline procedures alone utilise more than that and you have major thinning across a norwood 5 area. Do you want to fill in a hairline, wait a few years until you are completely bald behind it so it looks ridiculous and then get another transplant, or fill in the entire area now?

 

Even a 0.25mg microdose of fin would do you more good than a transplant in the long run, but if you get one without medication keep your expectations reasonable. Do you want to fill in the entire balding area so even if you lose more hair you will have decent coverage across the scalp, or do you want a hairline that is going to look ridiculous in a year or two as you lose coverage elsewhere across the entire norwood 5 area?

Hi mate, me again........I can see that you've contributed to quite a few threads regarding Dr Erdogan, so hoping to get your opinion on my pics (dry & wet) below that I have sent ASMED (still waiting for them to get back to me). 

1) You may recall I mentioned going to DHI for a consultation. So, they recommended I get 2000 grafts in total to address my hair loss. Going off what I have read so far, it seems like this may not be enough and that Dr Erdogan will recommend more than this for me, what do you think? 

2) I have never used Finasteride (or any other meds to address my hair loss). My wife and I are planning to start a family within the next 12 months, so I'm honestly a bit confused about using this med. Can I just get more than 2000 grafts packed in, so I don't need to use Finasteride in the immediate future....or do you think I would have to go on it immediately post-surgery? If I get more than 2000 grafts and pack it in, is there any other meds / shampoos I could just use instead? 

 

 

[JayLDD]

1 hour ago, OzzyBoy said:

Hi mate, me again........I can see that you've contributed to quite a few threads regarding Dr Erdogan, so hoping to get your opinion on my pics (dry & wet) below that I have sent ASMED (still waiting for them to get back to me). 

1) You may recall I mentioned going to DHI for a consultation. So, they recommended I get 2000 grafts in total to address my hair loss. Going off what I have read so far, it seems like this may not be enough and that Dr Erdogan will recommend more than this for me, what do you think? 

2) I have never used Finasteride (or any other meds to address my hair loss). My wife and I are planning to start a family within the next 12 months, so I'm honestly a bit confused about using this med. Can I just get more than 2000 grafts packed in, so I don't need to use Finasteride in the immediate future....or do you think I would have to go on it immediately post-surgery? If I get more than 2000 grafts and pack it in, is there any other meds / shampoos I could just use instead? 

 

 

 

 

Your donor is well below average. Bad enough that I wouldn't be surprised if Erdogan rejects you. Honestly your best option is meds.  

For good results I think optimally you'd need around 5k grafts, problem is you have what looks like a lot of thinning in the donor and the crown area dipping further down. Also seems to be retrograde thinning (at the bottom of the donor). Not sure you're a good candidate in general, and a lower number like 2k might create more problems than it solves in the long run if you continue to thin at a reasonable rate.

Finasteride is your best bet. I'd consult Erdogan but I wouldn't get your hopes up. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by JeanLDD

[OzzyBoy]

9 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

 

 

Your donor is well below average. Bad enough that I wouldn't be surprised if Erdogan rejects you. Honestly your best option is meds.  

For good results I think optimally you'd need around 5k grafts, problem is you have what looks like a lot of thinning in the donor and the crown area dipping further down. Also seems to be retrograde thinning (at the bottom of the donor). Not sure you're a good candidate in general, and a lower number like 2k might create more problems than it solves in the long run if you continue to thin at a reasonable rate.

Finasteride is your best bet. I'd consult Erdogan but I wouldn't get your hopes up. 

Yeah, DHI told me that my donor area at the back isn't too great either (at a face to face consultation where they actually examined my head), so they would try to take some from the side of my head....

Also, I have an attempted 'fade' haircut, so that's actually why the bottom of the donor area suddenly looks really thin lol....my barber cuts it down to a size 1 at the bottom and keeps it longer as it goes up my head.....it is definitely not great in general though, I agree with you. I guess I can only wait and see what Erdogan responds this week and go from there......I will let you know what he says, as I've sent him these same pics. Thanks mate. 

[HairGone29]

Erdogan is a crook, all you need is 1500 on the hairline. 5000 is insane, will create all kinds of shock loss and you'll have no donor hair left for later on

[Legend007]

If I were u I wouldn’t even consider a hair transplant.. think about it ,, hair transplants do not magically grow new stronger hair ..

all u doing is transplanting the current hair u have in the back to the top of ur scalp ..

ur donor hair seems to be just as weak n patchy as the top of ur scalp .. u won’t get a dense  result no matter how much hair u move ..

not only that ,, but u still have a lot of viable hair up top , just patchy in some areas .. do u not think that those native hairs will survive the trauma of surgery ? It’s not like u have a bald spot to fill in .. u have diffused thinnin all over .. making ur case difficult .. even if it’s successful ,, n u don’t get too much shockloss ,, those native hairs will be gone in a few years .. putting u in the same situation u are now .. n u won’t have enough donor hair to correct it .. well those are my thoughts ..

[JayLDD]

2 hours ago, HairGone29 said:

Erdogan is a crook, all you need is 1500 on the hairline. 5000 is insane, will create all kinds of shock loss and you'll have no donor hair left for later on

 

He has 25% at best of original density throughout; no hairline, a diffused forelock, barely existent crown and thin midscalp. That is not going to be even remotely fixed with 1500 grafts, you're utterly delusional. Looking at his donor I don't think he's a good candidate for surgery at all though.

Edited July 15, 2018 by JeanLDD

[OzzyBoy]

Uh oh, it's not looking great for me! Will fill you guys in as soon as I've heard back from Asmed. 

Out of curiosity, can they not take donor hair from anywhere else for hair transplants? Like the side of my head or even my beard (which is quite dense)....?

[Legend007]

Yes they can take hair from where ever u some.. if the surgery n surgeon is good .. they be able to do it with a good survival rate .. I don’t mean to be a downer .. but u have a tough battle .. n if u want to go down that route choose who u have surgery with carefully .. n u need to hop on meds .. finasteride . It’s a good defense for diffuse thinners .. the side effects are rare ,, If u care about ur keeping ur hair u have no choice .. it’s not a miracle drug : but it helps making ur hair stronger n not fall out as easily.. I’ve been on it for a year .. n my hairline seems to be worse ,: but overall I have less Hair fall .. n the feeling of u actually able to control ur hairloss while on meds , is a good thing .. I was feeling depressed seeing my hair just fall out when I shake my head .. so my hair is more manageable now . Hopefully urs will stabilize too . Good luck.. also with some toppik  ur hair won’t be so bad . It be good if u need to go out for special occasions . U won’t look bald .. just thinning hair .

[OzzyBoy]

1 hour ago, Legend007 said:

Yes they can take hair from where ever u some.. if the surgery n surgeon is good .. they be able to do it with a good survival rate .. I don’t mean to be a downer .. but u have a tough battle .. n if u want to go down that route choose who u have surgery with carefully .. n u need to hop on meds .. finasteride . It’s a good defense for diffuse thinners .. the side effects are rare ,, If u care about ur keeping ur hair u have no choice .. it’s not a miracle drug : but it helps making ur hair stronger n not fall out as easily.. I’ve been on it for a year .. n my hairline seems to be worse ,: but overall I have less Hair fall .. n the feeling of u actually able to control ur hairloss while on meds , is a good thing .. I was feeling depressed seeing my hair just fall out when I shake my head .. so my hair is more manageable now . Hopefully urs will stabilize too . Good luck.. also with some toppik  ur hair won’t be so bad . It be good if u need to go out for special occasions . U won’t look bald .. just thinning hair .

thanks man, that's a bummer for me, but ah well! It is what it is, right. 

regardless, I will let you guys know what Erdogan ends up saying too 

[OzzyBoy]

Hey, do you guys know anything at all about Dr Hakan Doganay from ahd in Turkey? I've read that he is one of the best along with Erdogan in Turkey (perhaps not as good as Erdogan?)........but that he also specialises in body / beard hair transplants (BHT), which i'm only just starting to read a bit more about...i'm just doing my research before I completely rule out the possibly of a HT haha

[Legend007]

I think dr doganay got banned off the recommendened list because of a few bad results,, he used to be good ..  but got too busy n neglected his patients .. when money comes before the patients u lose buisiness..

but yeah if I were u get an in person consultation .. there’s no one on here that can determine what path u should go without examining u personally .. hairloss is a difficult issue .. so best u give ur self a chance n see someone in person .. u do have options .. ur hairloss isn’t that bad .. the hair u have looks thich .. it’s the diffusing that’s giving u problems .. n ur donor is below average .. but maybe it’s just cuz it’s short .. so I don’t know .. don’t give up hope .. go get ur self checked out .. 

[OzzyBoy]

*UPDATE*

So Dr Doganay has responded and recommended 4000 grafts. Despite the weak donor, he thinks he can extract that much + can take a few from my beard too.

Dr Erdogan is yet to provide the final evaluation, however has initially replied just saying that he recommends I use Finasteride on my donor area. Waiting to hear back from him regarding number of grafts he can do, etc.