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Dr. Alan Feller

Why NOT to get an FUE- Interview with Dr. Willaim Reed- by Dr. Feller and Bloxham

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Stay tuned.

 

Dr Bloxham - I assume this means you or Dr Feller will be responding to this comment in the (hopefully) near future. If that is the case, can you outline exactly what it is please? To my untrained eye, it is just strip surgery i.e FUT. I don't see the difference at all.

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To my untrained eye, it is just strip surgery i.e FUT. I don't see the difference at all.

 

There is an entire Thread about it! Why do we not discuss this topic there were it belongs? This will avoid confusion. There are enough unanswered questions here without mFUE.

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There is an entire Thread about it! Why do we not discuss this topic there were it belongs? This will avoid confusion. There are enough unanswered questions here without mFUE.

 

Yeah a new thread is fine. There is a lot of talk from the clinic that FUE has not advanced at all, but apparently it's already been "modified" to obtain strip-like results - an advancement to remove the three detrimental forces. Therefore I was just surprised it has not been mentioned here.


1st Procedure, Oct. 2012 - 1,704 grafts FUT w/Dr. True

2nd Procedure, Sept. 2015 - 2500 grafts FUE w/Dr. Vories

 

FUE Progress - http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/180966-my-experience-w-dr-vories-2-500-grafts.html

FUE 1 year result - http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/184716-1-year-results-2-500-grafts-w-dr-vories.html

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I am wondering what set of data Dr. Feller is using when he writes "Indeed, FUE causes 13 times the amount of vascular trauma," as compared to FUT surgery. How did you deduce that FUE causes 13 times the amount of trauma as opposed to say 2X or 5X or 9X, etc. Is it based on information in a peer reviewed medical journal?

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It's probably cited from another US FUT surgeon pissed off he's losing business to European FUE surgeons, so they made the number up and threw it out there as medical literature.

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It's probably cited from another US FUT surgeon pissed off he's losing business to European FUE surgeons, so they made the number up and threw it out there as medical literature.

 

I don't know for sure of course, but you can quantify scarification based on surface area. If you take into account the fibrotic webbing (think of connect the dots) with FUE, it would be reasonable to assume the total amount of sub dermal scarring covers 13x the scalp real estate that a strip surgery would. This terms gets thrown around a lot, but it is (simple math).

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I'll let Dr. Feller answer the question, as he made the representation.

 

I am also wondering how he came up with "25% sacrifice of grafts during FUE is a more likely optimistic figure."

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I'll let Dr. Feller answer the question, as he made the representation.

 

Good luck, some others (inlcuding myself) wait for month to get some answers ;-)

 

I am not sure if there is a study about it, but like jbl2093 said: Based on pure math it is clear that FUE greats more trauma/scarring even when the effects underneath the skin are not considered.

Edited by Gasthoerer

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This has been previously posted- but we performed an FUE procedure into a large scar from a previous MRSA infection. 100 grafts were placed with implanter pens in a test case, and at 6 months we re-evalauted with a hair count. Out of the 100 grafts placed, 99 were actively growing at 6 months- into scar tissue. So while there maybe physical forces placed on the grafts during extraction, they have little impact on graft survival. We went to graft an additional 2500 FUE grafts into the scarring area. Here are the close-up photos of the test case and before and afters 6 months from the 2500 graft case.

 

I know I am just a layperson, but is this not game, set, and match to Dr Vories?

 

It will be interesting to see results of the Shapiro study, although they reported that early results indicated that FUE and FUT yielded the same results. I would take 99 grafts out of 100 all day long....great work Dr Vories!


 9133 FUE grafts over 4 operations:

1)  Dr De Reys - 3000 grafts in 2012; 2) Dr De Reys - 1800 grafts in 2014; 3) Dr Raghu Reddy - 1200 grafts in 2017; 4)  Dr Arshad - 3133 grafts in 2019

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/54899-9133-fue-grafts-3000-dr-de-reys-in-2013-1800-dr-de-reys-2014-1200-dr-reddy-2017-3133-dr-arshad-2019/

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I know I am just a layperson, but is this not game, set, and match to Dr Vories?

 

 

This is exactly what I was saying. If this study is "legit "then the "forces" can be overcome! End of story.

 

Only options coming to my mind that this debate is not over are:

- Was there a non-standard method used e. g. very large punch (which helped in yield but cannot be carried over to larger cases)

- This patient was an "outlayer" with very good characteristics

 

But the answer of Dr. Bloxham that he even expected this outcome speaks volumes.

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Some members might remember the story about the “Interview” with Feller, Feriduni (as a FUE/FUT clinic) and myself, which finally never realized.

 

Nevertheless, I went to a second consult with Feriduni. Please be aware, I made an appointment for a consultation and not (!) an interview. Therefore, I only could ask some questions directly related to my case. I also did not record (of course) the discussion, but made notes before and after which I want to share. I also mentioned that I am in an online discussion about strip vs. FUE.

 

- Dr. Feriduni recommended FUE as the right procedure for me (same did Bisanga and Lupanzula but the latter is performing purely FUE so maybe that doesn’t count).

 

- This time I mentioned directly to Feriduni that I am open for strip if the results woud be significantly better

 

- I also mentioned, that in the past I always had my hair long enough to disguise a good strip scar

 

- Feriduni was confident that he could get results with FUE very close (or even similar) to his FUT and I had enough grafts available (which makes the lifetime graft count not a decisive factor for me)

 

- He mentioned that I am (most likely) a good FUE candidate (hair type)

 

- From what I understand it required many years (starting in 2003?) to come from 100-200 grafts a day to the numbers/results he does nowadays

 

- He also mentioned that he would defend his opinion (almost similar results with FUE vs. FUT ) against anyone and actually there is a lot of discussion in the FUE conferences about this topic

 

- Interesting point was that he told that on both sides (pro strip and pro FUE) there are “extremist” in both their opinion and their language (he mentioned the clinics names, but I will not publish them)

 

- He admitted that there is very poor scientific data (FUE vs. FUT) and we had a brief discussion about the scientific articles and how they are edited (would be worth an extra discussion).

 

- Interesting side note: Feriduni briefly explained different FUE extraction methods depending on the patients grafts (which helps reduce trauma but reduces grafts/session)

 

Background to put the recommendation of the clinics into context:

 

- I am 38 years old

- Currently require totally 2500-3000 grafts

- From my age and family history lifetime grafts required are ~ 5000 (if meds stop working)

- All clinics estimated around 10 000 grafts available via FUE (and above average thickness and number of multis)

As I am always suspicious and do not trust any doctor blindly (not Dr. Feller, not Dr. Bloxham nor Dr. Feriduni):

- I used the “coverage value” from Lorenzo/Erdogan to calculate the available grafts myself and also ended up with around 10 000 grafts

- Before I go for a big FUE session, I will do a minor fix for my W-Shape hairline (<300 grafts), which will hopefully tell if I am a good FUE candidate (how easy the grafts can be extracted)

- If I am not a good candidate I will do FUT for the major area (crown)

 

Maybe some will find this summary helpful.

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The extremists on the fue side would likely be a doctor in Georgia who doesn't believe strip has a place and Feller is getting a reputation as a strip extremist. But nothing feller or bloxham has said has been successfully refuted. The industry demands a narrative that is conducive to making patients feel comfortable with large fue sessions.

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Some members might remember the story about the “Interview” with Feller, Feriduni (as a FUE/FUT clinic) and myself, which finally never realized.

 

Nevertheless, I went to a second consult with Feriduni. Please be aware, I made an appointment for a consultation and not (!) an interview. Therefore, I only could ask some questions directly related to my case. I also did not record (of course) the discussion, but made notes before and after which I want to share. I also mentioned that I am in an online discussion about strip vs. FUE.

 

- Dr. Feriduni recommended FUE as the right procedure for me (same did Bisanga and Lupanzula but the latter is performing purely FUE so maybe that doesn’t count).

 

- This time I mentioned directly to Feriduni that I am open for strip if the results woud be significantly better

 

- I also mentioned, that in the past I always had my hair long enough to disguise a good strip scar

 

- Feriduni was confident that he could get results with FUE very close (or even similar) to his FUT and I had enough grafts available (which makes the lifetime graft count not a decisive factor for me)

 

- He mentioned that I am (most likely) a good FUE candidate (hair type)

 

- From what I understand it required many years (starting in 2003?) to come from 100-200 grafts a day to the numbers/results he does nowadays

 

- He also mentioned that he would defend his opinion (almost similar results with FUE vs. FUT ) against anyone and actually there is a lot of discussion in the FUE conferences about this topic

 

- Interesting point was that he told that on both sides (pro strip and pro FUE) there are “extremist” in both their opinion and their language (he mentioned the clinics names, but I will not publish them)

 

- He admitted that there is very poor scientific data (FUE vs. FUT) and we had a brief discussion about the scientific articles and how they are edited (would be worth an extra discussion).

 

- Interesting side note: Feriduni briefly explained different FUE extraction methods depending on the patients grafts (which helps reduce trauma but reduces grafts/session)

 

Background to put the recommendation of the clinics into context:

 

- I am 38 years old

- Currently require totally 2500-3000 grafts

- From my age and family history lifetime grafts required are ~ 5000 (if meds stop working)

- All clinics estimated around 10 000 grafts available via FUE (and above average thickness and number of multis)

 

As I am always suspicious and do not trust any doctor blindly (not Dr. Feller, not Dr. Bloxham nor Dr. Feriduni):

 

- I used the “coverage value” from Lorenzo/Erdogan to calculate the available grafts myself and also ended up with around 10 000 grafts

- Before I go for a big FUE session, I will do a minor fix for my W-Shape hairline (<300 grafts), which will hopefully tell if I am a good FUE candidate (how easy the grafts can be extracted)

- If I am not a good candidate I will do FUT for the major area (crown)

 

Maybe some will find this summary helpful.

 

How long did you have to wait for the consultation with Doctor Feriduni?

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The extremists on the fue side would likely be a doctor in Georgia who doesn't believe strip has a place and Feller is getting a reputation as a strip extremist. But nothing feller or bloxham has said has been successfully refuted. The industry demands a narrative that is conducive to making patients feel comfortable with large fue sessions.

 

Getting lol? suicide bombers are less committed to their cause than Dr Feller is to strip :P

 

but I would disagree, I think we're getting not just well reputed drs but the top doctors in the world coming down on the side of saying fue survival rates and yields are rivaling fut which DIRECTLY refutes what they're saying.

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The extremists on the fue side would likely be a doctor in Georgia who doesn't believe strip has a place and Feller is getting a reputation as a strip extremist. But nothing feller or bloxham has said has been successfully refuted. The industry demands a narrative that is conducive to making patients feel comfortable with large fue sessions.

 

Much of the FUE vs FUT literature I have read on both sides is barely high school level and shows utter disdain for the scientific method and understanding of controlled variables. For example the Beehner study on FUE cited by Feller and Bloxham regards a surgeon who considers himself experienced and yet also claims to have performed less than 100 FUE surgeries in a decade. To believe anything a talented surgeon writes even if the work is utter garbage and the evidence does not reflect evidence it is nothing more than an appeal to authority fallacy.

 

We can look at the generalities on the other hand like the hundreds of Erdogan 5000-5500 graft cases on the international forums in which norwood 5s are achieving full coverage and the results are arguably more consistent than any FUT doctor in the world. When this extends beyond the hundreds (and failure rates or low yields below 2-3%) with doctors such as Lorenzo and Erdogan, you can no longer dismiss it as anecdotal evidence.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/NUFCBLOGS/videos

International Hair Loss Forum - Dr. Koray Erdogan / ASMED SURGICAL CENTER : 5021 FUE

International Hair Loss Forum - Vladimir 83 : 4502 FUE - Dr Erdogan - 14 et 15/05/2014

International Hair Loss Forum - Djeetee: 5500 FUE - Dr Erdogan - 27&28/09/16

International Hair Loss Forum - Vanpierresi & p?re : 3000 & 5000 FUE - Dr Erdogan - 14/02/17

International Hair Loss Forum - XABABA : 3200 FUE - Dr. Koray Erdogan, ASMED

 

 

There are hundreds of these if you would like to look further.

 

Hair transplant surgery is primarily cosmetic, we can deduce that FUT is clearly the better procedure by the nature of dissection under a microscope vs blind removal of tissue, however the results of doctors like Erdogan and Lorenzo show that large megasessions and massive cosmetic improvements that equal and better 95% of FUT surgerons in aesthetics and yield is possible.

 

You cannot explain away all these cases with studies from American surgeons who are clearly having there business hit by superior and cheaper FUE surgeons who offer a more appealing service to the average patient (whether or not it is better). The studies are clearly inaccurate and high school level in many of their claims.

 

Erdogan and Lorenzo have some of the most readily available results to view online, feel free to disprove with evidence of failure rates, poor yield and cosmetic mediocrity by looking at their results. Citing study data done by FUT surgeons who are incompetent at FUE and against it for business reasons is piss poor evidence against genuine results.

 

Why are these and a number of other FUE surgeons such as Couto, Freitas, Lupanzula and Feriduni acheiving these results that so many highly intelligent and skilled FUT doctors claim is impossible? The explanation that it comes down to can be nothing other than competence. Why are doctors like Erdogan and Lorenzo able to get 6000-7000 on a regular basis from patients with no visible damage to the donor even with a fade cut? Why is there not a single case of an Erdogan 5000 with visible donor depletion when Feller claims this is impossible? Competence, experience and use of a manual punch. In regards to FUE, Feller lacks all of these in contrast to some of the top full time FUE surgeons. Either that, or he is simply lying.

 

The claim that FUE cannot rival FUT for high norwood work and achieving similar cosmetic results for similar graft numbers is blatantly disproven.

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Some members might remember the story about the “Interview” with Feller, Feriduni (as a FUE/FUT clinic) and myself, which finally never realized.

 

Nevertheless, I went to a second consult with Feriduni. Please be aware, I made an appointment for a consultation and not (!) an interview. Therefore, I only could ask some questions directly related to my case. I also did not record (of course) the discussion, but made notes before and after which I want to share. I also mentioned that I am in an online discussion about strip vs. FUE.

 

- Dr. Feriduni recommended FUE as the right procedure for me (same did Bisanga and Lupanzula but the latter is performing purely FUE so maybe that doesn’t count).

 

- This time I mentioned directly to Feriduni that I am open for strip if the results woud be significantly better

 

- I also mentioned, that in the past I always had my hair long enough to disguise a good strip scar

 

- Feriduni was confident that he could get results with FUE very close (or even similar) to his FUT and I had enough grafts available (which makes the lifetime graft count not a decisive factor for me)

 

- He mentioned that I am (most likely) a good FUE candidate (hair type)

 

- From what I understand it required many years (starting in 2003?) to come from 100-200 grafts a day to the numbers/results he does nowadays

 

- He also mentioned that he would defend his opinion (almost similar results with FUE vs. FUT ) against anyone and actually there is a lot of discussion in the FUE conferences about this topic

 

- Interesting point was that he told that on both sides (pro strip and pro FUE) there are “extremist” in both their opinion and their language (he mentioned the clinics names, but I will not publish them)

 

- He admitted that there is very poor scientific data (FUE vs. FUT) and we had a brief discussion about the scientific articles and how they are edited (would be worth an extra discussion).

 

- Interesting side note: Feriduni briefly explained different FUE extraction methods depending on the patients grafts (which helps reduce trauma but reduces grafts/session)

 

Background to put the recommendation of the clinics into context:

 

- I am 38 years old

- Currently require totally 2500-3000 grafts

- From my age and family history lifetime grafts required are ~ 5000 (if meds stop working)

- All clinics estimated around 10 000 grafts available via FUE (and above average thickness and number of multis)

As I am always suspicious and do not trust any doctor blindly (not Dr. Feller, not Dr. Bloxham nor Dr. Feriduni):

- I used the “coverage value” from Lorenzo/Erdogan to calculate the available grafts myself and also ended up with around 10 000 grafts

- Before I go for a big FUE session, I will do a minor fix for my W-Shape hairline (<300 grafts), which will hopefully tell if I am a good FUE candidate (how easy the grafts can be extracted)

- If I am not a good candidate I will do FUT for the major area (crown)

 

Maybe some will find this summary helpful.

 

 

The sketchy part of this is your assumption about future loss and how many grafts you'll need (requiring 2.5-3k now but assuming you'll only need 5k total over lifetime which is probably another 40 years of progressive loss), plus it's impossible to guess how bad your hair will get when fin stops working for you (not if, when). My hair isn't following any known family loss, it's earlier and worse. Also you say you don't blindly trust any doc but then seem to trust a doctor's coverage value equation in the next sentence.

 

Also 10k grafts from just FUE is pretty much unheard of, so unless you're in the very tippy top % of men then that's not right, most men get like 5-6k grafts before the donor starts getting that depleted look. If it sounds too good to be true... yeah you might actually be in that top % but I'd be very careful making plans on that.

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The sketchy part of this is your assumption about future loss and how many grafts you'll need (requiring 2.5-3k now but assuming you'll only need 5k total over lifetime which is probably another 40 years of progressive loss), plus it's impossible to guess how bad your hair will get when fin stops working for you (not if, when). My hair isn't following any known family loss, it's earlier and worse. Also you say you don't blindly trust any doc but then seem to trust a doctor's coverage value equation in the next sentence.

 

Also 10k grafts from just FUE is pretty much unheard of, so unless you're in the very tippy top % of men then that's not right, most men get like 5-6k grafts before the donor starts getting that depleted look. If it sounds too good to be true... yeah you might actually be in that top % but I'd be very careful making plans on that.

 

The burden of proof is on you to disprove the coverage value system of Lorenzo and Erdogan, as they are the one consistently proving they can hit targets of 5000-7500 with FUE on average donors with no visible thinning. Likely over 1000 of these results visible online between them.

 

Provide evidence to the contrary in regards to RESULTS, or you simply come across as incompetent at arguing this. Bringing up Feller's complaints to argue against results is nothing more than an appeal to authority fallacy. It doesn't hold up to reality.

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The burden of proof is on you to disprove the coverage value system of Lorenzo and Erdogan, as they are the one consistently proving they can hit targets of 5000-7500 with FUE on average donors with no visible thinning. Likely over 1000 of these results visible online between them.

 

Provide evidence to the contrary in regards to RESULTS, or you simply come across as incompetent at arguing this. Bringing up Feller's complaints to argue against results is nothing more than an appeal to authority fallacy. It doesn't hold up to reality.

 

Lol well the most obvious response is that the men in those countries naturally have thicker hair so those doctors will have more examples to show off. And just because they can get guy's donors to appear non-raped after 5-6k grafts (7k+ is rare) doesn't mean they can double that amount afterward. You provide us with hundreds of 10k graft FUE cases and maybe I'll agree that it's something a man can count on.

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Lol well the most obvious response is that the men in those countries naturally have thicker hair so those doctors will have more examples to show off. And just because they can get guy's donors to appear non-raped after 5-6k grafts (7k+ is rare) doesn't mean they can double that amount afterward. You provide us with hundreds of 10k graft FUE cases and maybe I'll agree that it's something a man can count on.

 

Very few people require 10k grafts or would want to go through that many due to time and cost constraints so that is a moot, ridiculous point to make. Before it was an appeal to authority fallacy, now a move the goalposts fallacy.

 

The grand stupidity of what you said doesn't count the fact that you can still get an FUT, albeit with a lower yielding strip after you have extracted 5-6k FUE grafts.

 

Regardless, the hundreds Erdogan and Lorenzo 5000-7000 cases (many with Erdogan 5000 in a single two day session) and total lack of misfires prove the hypothesis of Feller wrong. FUE can, and does on a daily basis provide top notch megasession results for high norwood cases and many of the doctors doing so are just as consistent as any FUT surgeon in the world.

 

You can't argue against the results. Many doctors aren't talented or experienced enough to provide successful FUE that stands up to FUT, the problem is these arrogant doctors who blame it on the procedure type, not the procedure itself.

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Very few people require 10k grafts or would want to go through that many due to time and cost constraints so that is a moot, ridiculous point to make. Before it was an appeal to authority fallacy, now a move the goalposts fallacy.

 

The grand stupidity of what you said doesn't count the fact that you can still get an FUT, albeit with a lower yielding strip after you have extracted 5-6k FUE grafts.

 

Regardless, the hundreds Erdogan and Lorenzo 5000-7000 cases (many with Erdogan 5000 in a single two day session) and total lack of misfires prove the hypothesis of Feller wrong. FUE can, and does on a daily basis provide top notch megasession results for high norwood cases and many of the doctors doing so are just as consistent as any FUT surgeon in the world.

 

You can't argue against the results. Many doctors aren't talented or experienced enough to provide successful FUE that stands up to FUT, the problem is these arrogant doctors who blame it on the procedure type, not the procedure itself.

 

"Total lack of misfires" lol just lol if you really believe that. They aren't gunna broadcast their failures or the patients who have raped donors and are shit out of luck when they inevitably lose their remaining native hair and need more grafts. And strips are horrible once you've raped the donor with FUE, you can't count on that giving you any appreciable amount of grafts once you've done that FUE damage. Also we are talking about total donor supply, no shit these FUE megasessions show some results, we are talking about when those guys lose their remaining native hair and need thousands more grafts to maintain their look, they aren't getting another 4-5k grafts out of that megasession FUE'd donor. This is especially pertinent for the young guys who Erdogan loaded 4-5k grafts into their frontal 1/3rd.

 

And the 10k graft number came from him hypothesizing that is what he has available and realistically NW 6/7 men need 10k at least to get a good result, every single case I've seen that's less then that would benefit immensely from thousands more grafts and quite frankly should've just shaved the remainder off and moved on, but that's their choice to make. And if you can't afford to move that many grafts you shouldn't have gotten a HT to begin with, no one can predict how bad your loss will get with the passage of time.

 

Finally, Dr. Konior told me that the way to max out donor is to strip out before FUE'ing out. IF you think you know more then that guy then you really are delusional.

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"Total lack of misfires" lol just lol if you really believe that. They aren't gunna broadcast their failures or the patients who have raped donors and are shit out of luck when they inevitably lose their remaining native hair and need more grafts. And strips are horrible once you've raped the donor with FUE, you can't count on that giving you any appreciable amount of grafts once you've done that FUE damage. Also we are talking about total donor supply, no shit these FUE megasessions show some results, we are talking about when those guys lose their remaining native hair and need thousands more grafts to maintain their look, they aren't getting another 4-5k grafts out of that megasession FUE'd donor. This is especially pertinent for the young guys who Erdogan loaded 4-5k grafts into their frontal 1/3rd.

 

And the 10k graft number came from him hypothesizing that is what he has available and realistically NW 6/7 men need 10k at least to get a good result, every single case I've seen that's less then that would benefit immensely from thousands more grafts and quite frankly should've just shaved the remainder off and moved on, but that's their choice to make. And if you can't afford to move that many grafts you shouldn't have gotten a HT to begin with, no one can predict how bad your loss will get with the passage of time.

 

Finally, Dr. Konior told me that the way to max out donor is to strip out before FUE'ing out. IF you think you know more then that guy then you really are delusional.

 

You can't magically create new grafts by doing strip prior to FUE. Of course FUE may result in a small % (under 5) of transection doing extra damage to the donor, but most FUE doctors will not take more than 30-40% of the donor before they stop to overharvest. If you harvest 30-40% of the donor via FUE, a strip will yield 30-40% less at that point, but nonetheless you can still do strip after FUE.

 

The difference between smart people and stupid people is stupid people evaluate using opinions rather than using facts. Konior can't change the laws of mathematics. Grafts are either there or not, whether you opt for strip or FUE first will not make a huge difference. I agree if we are talking in about absolute maximum then FUT first will provide the best results, but overall it will make little difference if the transection rate is low.

 

"once you've raped the donor with FUE, you can't count on that giving you any appreciable amount of grafts once you've done that FUE damage."

 

A donor being raped is typically to do with an motorized punch and large scarring, in every single one of the Erdogan norwood 5 5000-7200 graft results I posted they could still get a sizeable FUT procedure.

 

If you have a donor supply of 5000 grafts with FUE up to 40% of donor removal, you extract 5000 with a 5% transection rate and then proceed to FUT, you will still get a strip that yields 60% as much. Argue with this all you like, what you're saying is pure stupidity and it makes no logical sense. A child can understand the basic maths here.

 

I don't know how to perform surgery as well as an FUT master like Dr. Feller or Dr. Konior, but I also lack the bias of being part of that industry and having my profits directly impacted by this debate subject.

 

Again, there are over a thousand results between Erdogan and Lorenzo available online, MOST of them patient posted that show FUE over the 5000 graft line and with results comparable to any strip surgeon. Ignore the patient posted results I offered on the last page and doing the research yourself if you like, but you come across like an ignorant idiot. If you think my statement about a total lack of misfires is inaccurate, then find some misfires and prove what you are saying.

 

"And the 10k graft number came from him hypothesizing that is what he has available and realistically NW 6/7 men need 10k at least to get a good result, every single case I've seen that's less then that would benefit immensely from thousands more grafts and quite frankly should've just shaved the remainder off and moved on, but that's their choice to make."

 

And more pure nonsense. I cannot believe you are still going on about this goalposts fallacy. The vast majority of patients aren't norwood 7, and the vast majority of norwood 5s and 6s are happy with results around or under the 5000 graft mark. You're honestly trying to say that FUE isn't a good procedure because it can't get 10000 grafts for the average patient? Why not just make it 20000?

 

FUE can't get 20000 grafts? Must be a shit procedure!

 

Seriously, I feel bad for humanity when I read posts as stupid as yours. Your level of understanding logical arguments and what constitutes evidence is below that of a cucumber. Take an epistemology course for real. All opinions and appeal to authorities, not one FACT.

Edited by JeanLDD

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I had a feeling resurrecting this thread was a bad idea.

 

A combination of FUE and FUT will maximise donor capacity, the ordering of which not being particularly relevant, and cosmetic improvement, yield and consistency is correlated to the doctor, not the type of procedure.

 

There are more poor cases of FUE and less competent FUE doctors, however this again does not relate to the procedure itself.

 

Many of the surgeons who doubt the efficacy of FUE for megassessions are not skilled at FUE themselves as otherwise why can they not achieve the results of doctors like Couto, Lorenzo and Erdogan with the same consistency. Tellingly,very often those who criticise FUE megassessions utilise a motorised punch which is designed to make the job easier for an inexperienced doctor, not improve the results of the patient.

 

FUT overall will inevitably produce better results as it is not a blind procedure like FUE, however it is difficult to distinguish a difference in yield and cosmetic improvement comparing a top FUE and top FUT surgeon with the same amount of grafts, area covered and hair type. There is little evidence to suggest any top FUT surgeon is more consistent in their work and yield than any top FUE surgeon.

 

Choose based on the doctor and their consistency with getting results that fit your expectations, not specifically the type of procedure, although the higher the norwood, poorer the donor and if unmedicated then the benefits of FUT become more apparent.

 

End of story.

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