Feller and Bloxham

[JayLDD]

I find jarring that the vast majority of Feller's videos particularly the one he just posted are very informative for the average patient. Really wish he could just name and accept the European FUE surgeons that are doing vastly better FUE work than him and 95% of other American doctors. The first step is to mention these doctors by name and acknowledge comments mentioning Ferudini, Erdogan, Bisanga, Keser and other Europeans doing substantially better work than American doctors.

[andy_+_+]

Interesting that Dr Feller mentions that it is required on HRN that surgeons post one case a month. I'm pretty sure that there are recommended surgeons that don't do this.

 

Bang on Mav23100gunter - This is a great site with great doctors but some of the doctors NEVER post online results.

[andy_+_+]

A question for the doctors commenting.

 

Why would Hasson and Wong start doing FUE and claim that their transection rates are on par with FUT.

 

Their world renowned for FUT and one of the most respected clinics in the world.

 

Why not stay just doing FUT...Other than the obvious make more money.

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

Andy,

 

I wouldn't speculate. You'd have to ask them. Better yet, ask them to join the discussion here. It would be great to get multiple doctors discussing. I'd happily participate.

[andy_+_+]

... Money.

 

I just edited my previous post to say other than money right before you responded.

[JayLDD]

I could show you some Erdogan, Kesser, and Feriduni FUE cases that would would make a Ken doll who fell into a garbage disposal head first feel better about themselves. The key is physician oversight and eliminating technician extraction entirely.

 

Ok well I'd be glad to see them. Post links.

[andy_+_+]

Andy,

 

I wouldn't speculate. You'd have to ask them. Better yet, ask them to join the discussion here. It would be great to get multiple doctors discussing. I'd happily participate.

 

I believe in both procedures and depend to believe there are many factors to a great result.

 

The one other thing I would say is when ever Dr.Feller debates FUE VS. FUT I've only ever seen one doctor come out and defend FUE.... I find this interesting.

[JayLDD]

You didn't actually just call Dr. Feller retarded and then incorrectly use "Appeal to Authority" did you? Let me give you a quick philosophy and logic lesson on appeals to authority.

 

Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.

Person A makes claim C about subject S.

Therefore, C is true.

 

That's not what happened here. And Dr. Feller doesn't have to "claim" to be an expert on hair restoration. His credentials are easily verifiable.

 

You've committed what most philosophy professors would write off as stupidity.

 

First of all I didn't call Feller retarded just because I used the word in the same sentence in relation to his logic; your English comprehension skills are atrocious.

 

"A logically valid argument from authority grounds a claim in the beliefs of one or more authoritative source(s), whose opinions are likely to be true on the relevant issue. Notably, this is a Bayesian statement -- it is likely to be true, rather than necessarily true. As such, an argument from authority can only strongly suggest what is true -- not prove it."

 

You clearly have no understanding of logic. As this definition shows, Just because Feller asserts as an expert that non doctors can't make claims on transplants doesn't make it true, it only suggests it is the case.

 

If an FUE doctor such as Erodgan claims FUE is better, you're claiming that because he is an authority he is correct, but then you'd also be saying that because Feller is an authority saying FUT is better that Feller is also correct. Again, you clearly know nothing about logic or philosophy. It is the argument and facts that matter, not the one saying it.

 

 

Here is an example akin to what I'm saying:

 

"In 1923, leading American zoologist Theophilus Painter declared, based on poor data and conflicting observations he had made,[31][32] that humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes. From the 1920s to the 1950s, this continued to be held based on Painter's authority,[27][33][34][32] despite subsequent counts totaling the correct number of 23.[31][35] Even textbooks[31] with photos showing 23 pairs incorrectly declared the number to be 24[35] based on the authority of the then-consensus.[36][27]"

[hsrp10]

FUT and FUE both have their place and merits and I've had both procedures.

 

If you really want to see the new trend then ask Dr. Konior what his FUT/FUE workload percentage is, last I spoke with him he said it was around 50/50. And that's from a doctor who used to specialize in mostly FUT.

 

long live HRN, let's not kill each other with FUT vs. FUE battles

[JayLDD]

I could show you some Erdogan, Kesser, and Feriduni FUE cases that would would make a Ken doll who fell into a garbage disposal head first feel better about themselves. The key is physician oversight and eliminating technician extraction entirely.

 

Still waiting on those links to results.

[TrixGlendevon]

The OP asked to hear from people who have had large FUE transplants that's why I posted my results

I have had a mega FUE hair transplant of 4200 2 years 3 months ago ,and as I have stated my result is amazing by any standards .

I really was hoping it wouldn't kick off the whole FUE/'FUT debate but Dr Feller as usual has felt threatened and decided to wade it with his usual heavy handed manner regarding this issue .

The bottom line is European Docs, we all know who they are, are producing amazing FUE results

maybe more grafts are needed to produce these results , but you can counter that with no worry about a nasty scar or nerve damage etc.

Dr Fellers claim that FUT is more Popular than FUE may be true in America but in the rest of the world

this is obviously untrue .

If you look at my pics I was a difficult case but the transformation is incredible, but of course I am just one of the lucky 20 per cent ,yea sure tell that to Dr Erdogan who is a world respected Doctor on this site.

I seem to remember Dr Feller /Bloxham stating the best a large FUE patient could hope for is a 60 per cent yield ,in all honesty

would 2520 grafts have given me the coverage I achieved as a NW 5-6

 

I think your result is amazing! It looks great.

[TrixGlendevon]

 

Trix:

This is absolutely correct and an immutable fact that many in the online community simply can't and won't accept. In fact they will reject it loudly.

 

Until an online poster can get a medical license, perform the FUE procedure and take responsibility for it they are uninformed. Being the recipient of a hair transplant procedure does not make a laymen into an expert-no matter how bright, motivated, and enthused he may be. And, no matter how much time he spends on a lay hair transplant forum. So you should weight their input accordingly.

 

If you are rejecting FUT for whatever reason. This means you are putting the actual growth of the graft secondary to some other concern. That is your business and it is fine in my book IF and only IF you have been properly informed about the risks of FUE compared to FUT. I am not a hair transplant cop, so you do what you think is in your own best interest.

 

May I ask, Trix, why you are interested in FUE over FUT ?

 

Fewer risks overall with numbess etc. there can even be permanent pain. Also, tonight I saw a guy who had done a hair transplant (clearly with a terrible surgeon) and he had a massive scar across the back of his head. I felt sorry for him.

[JayLDD]

I could show you some Erdogan, Kesser, and Feriduni FUE cases that would would make a Ken doll who fell into a garbage disposal head first feel better about themselves. The key is physician oversight and eliminating technician extraction entirely.

 

Obviously your comment was entirely idiotic and you don't have a clue what you are talking about, but it should also be mentioned that Keser does the manual extractions, incisions and implantations himself. Try not to outright lie next time jackass.

[Melvin- Admin]

Guy's let's stick to the thread, the OP originally wanted members who've had a large amount of grafts done via FUE to share their experiences, me and mick both shared our experience, it was in no way to dissuade or convince the OP that one procedure is better than the other. Both procedures produce good results and have left patients very satisfied, we should refrain from name calling and attacking other members.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Fewer risks overall with numbess etc. there can even be permanent pain. Also, tonight I saw a guy who had done a hair transplant (clearly with a terrible surgeon) and he had a massive scar across the back of his head. I felt sorry for him.

 

Trix:

You've got it inverted. The chances of donor numbness and permanent pain are much higher with FUE than FUT. In fact the term "donor neuropathy" was coined to describe FUE pain. I have never seen it applied to FUT.

 

The reasons for this are simple. In FUT there is only one plain of cutting and virtually no neurological or vascular damage so thees wounds heal extraordinarily well. FUE, by contrast, inflicts thousands of damaging holes in the donor area that disrupt nerves, nerve endings and vascularity throughout every plain.

 

In fact, the damage inflicted by FUE is 7 to 13 times greater. The real neuropathies, however, don't show up until a second FUE procedure is attempted. It is at that time numbing is harder to achieve and maintain and postoperatively an increase in pain in the form of "burning" occurs. There is no analogue for FUT surgery.

 

Below is a video I made a while ago that explains the damage caused by FUE compared to FUT.

 

 

[mav23100gunther]

Guy's let's stick to the thread, the OP originally wanted members who've had a large amount of grafts done via FUE to share their experiences, me and mick both shared our experience, it was in no way to dissuade or convince the OP that one procedure is better than the other. Both procedures produce good results and have left patients very satisfied, we should refrain from name calling and attacking other members.

 

Yeah, but he also used Feller and Bloxham in the title. I think he was looking to initiate or re-ignite that infamous FUT is more popular than FUE thread. Looks like he succeeded .

[JayLDD]

Here's an ad hominem for you: You're the biggest goddamn idiot I've seen on this board in a while, and that's saying something. You still don't have a firm grasp on what the requisites for a fallacy are, do you? That's a rhetorical question; you don't. Let me put you in touch with one of my ivy professors and the next time you pick up your rogaine you can can buy some ointment for the spanking he'll give you. If Dr. Feller weren't an authority on the the facts relevant to the argument, you would have a case. But you don't. Being a contrarian or having a different opinion from another authority, isn't a red flag for a fallacy. And I'm not saying either is inherently correct because they are an authority. The two aren't mutually inclusively.

 

Still you don't understand logic. Calling someone a "goddamn idiot" isn't an argument, it's just an insult. At least you made me laugh my ass off seeing as you don't know what the most basic logical fallacy is. Thanks for that.

 

If you're going to an ivy league, I feel sorry for you because you're reprehensibly stupid when it comes to logic. If doctor Feller tells you to rub goat shit on your penis to aid your hair transplant growth is it a logical argument just because he's an authority on the subject? Again, this is logic 101, maybe when you finish your subject you'll understand. An argument is functional if the facts are correct and the conclusion stems from the premises. Just because an authority claims something doesn't make it factual. How hard is this to understand you indoctrinated imbecile?

 

Still waiting on those "ken doll" Erdogan and Feriduni results you mentioned.

[JayLDD]

If you're relying on a false authority to prove the premise or (usually) stem of the sentence, then yes. Again, this isn't what happened. You're now setting up a series straw man and non-sequitur arguments. And it's not going to work on someone with a legal background. You're just going to keep burying yourself under wrong presuppositions. Dr. Feller has bolstered his scientific and logical breakdown of why FUE is the inferior procedure with authoritative support. The argument is sound. Whether you agree with it, doesn't matter. You're also entitled to not agree with me if I say the sky is blue. And a series of anecdotal evidence- a few good mass fue sessions- doesn't damage his argument. In fact, he addresses this. You've also introduced a false equivalency with your crap analogy so good on you Mr. High School diploma.

 

*Anyone can type in "Doctor's name" + "Bad results" and find what they're looking for.

 

You're quite welcome for the lesson. Take care.

 

Never knew this forum was so filled with philosophical illiterates. Also I haven't come across a single bad Erdogan result with visual evidence and believe me I've looked, so I would appreciate the links.

 

Please go ahead and point out the straw mans too, analogical reasoning does not equate to this. Your non-sequitur comment is also nonsensical.

 

"You're also entitled to not agree with me if I say the sky is blue. And a series of anecdotal evidence- a few good mass fue sessions- doesn't damage his argument. In fact, he addresses this. You've also introduced a false equivalency with your crap analogy so good on you Mr. High School diploma."

 

This is an example of a straw-man. When did I say anything like this?

 

 

I haven't even argued against FUT being the better surgery option for maximising yield and donor management because I agree with Feller that it is and the evidence suggests so, however when you resort to appeal to authority fallacies (and don't even know what one is) then you come across as moronic. Funny how again rather than SHOWING your evidence for understanding logic you just bring up "I'm a lawyer broseph". Titles over facts, and idiotic arguments.

[JayLDD]

If it is so easy to find a bad Erdogan and Ferudini result, then find one. You never provide evidence, everything you say you assume to be self-explanatory.

 

"I'm a laywer who went to an ivy-league, every argument I make is valid and sound"

 

Grow up. Blatant moron.

[JayLDD]

Sorry that you have to deal with someone who has actually studied philosophy so is able to call you out on this. Poor baby isn't king of the world like his daddy who got him into an ivy-league college said so.

[JayLDD]

I'm not sure how asking for bad FUE results from certain doctors who do regular megasessions is off track. If you cannot find bad FUE megasessions results from doctors like Ferudini and Erdogan who have done thousands of procedures (and posted hundreds) and provide links to these then clearly there is an issue with the argument that FUE is effectively a dud method.

 

Obviously the vast majority of megasessions (and successful megasessions) come from FUT, but why is there this need for some strip surgeons to reject outright FUE when clearly there are some doctors regularly producing FUE megasessions with good results. And if this isn't the case, then how do some like Erdogan post hundreds with additional hundreds from forum goers with great results, and no one can link me a bad one.

[TrixGlendevon]

Wow! I didn't expect this. I would appreciate some of the examples of the bad results of Feriduni etc. because these people are on my short list.

[Mick50]

Mick,

 

I definitely understand what you're saying. To be fair, however, the title of the thread is "Feller and Bloxham;" we were definitely going to chime in! Hopefully people get some useful information out of it.

 

And thank you for the kind words about the videos. Glad you enjoyed them.

 

Yes this is true Feller/Bloxham was used in the title as the OP was interested in learning why you're both anti FUE for mega FUE sessions, which is fine very informative for a lot of guys on this site .Other than the fact that I am happy with my result my result cant be used as an example for anyone to base their decision on whether to have FUT/FUE , in all honesty I knew very little about the whole business but I was so pissed of with my hair that I just went for it ,Ha one or the GUYS Spex mentions in his potential red flags post ,and I have always advised anyone to go with a recommended Doc .

As a layman of course I'm sure you and Dr Feller will understand why someone like me

is going to look at some of the large FUE posted on this site and think how are these Docs managing it when there are supposedly so many factors inherently against it .

I appreciate you don't want to/ are not able comment on individual Docs or cases

and I guess your suggestion that other FUE Docs get involved is perfectly valid .

Just to finish I am sorry Dr Feller felt I was vitriolic one of my posts ,I admit I did allude to the old FUT is more popular than FUE thread which was not necessary , but then again I didn't give any advice good bad or different to the OP to sway his decision.

Yes keep the vids coming and congratulations again on your recent recommendation

on this site.

[Gasthoerer]

I have read to the entire FUE vs. FUT thread and watched all F&B videos online.

 

The contribution of F&B in this forum is great:

1. They (F&B) put a lot of effort to educate hair loss sufferer

2. It is very important to mention the positive aspects of FUT, as I believe many people see FUT as outdated which is certainly wrong

3. Hopefully they stay tuned and I wish more clinics would make similar efforts

4. Opinions (!) of F&B are more valuable than opinions from the average forum users as they have a lot of experience

5. I am still in between in the FUT vs. FUE and I would really like to hear the pro/cons of both sides

 

But, F&B hurt their own case and set a bad example for discussion culture in this forum by:

1. Not backing up your claims with facts e. g.

--> a. The famous 99 from 100 or 999 from 1000 FUT to FUE cases, especially when all shown data lead to the conclusion that they are completely (!) off

--> b. The dissection and growth rates of FUE vs. FUT (some but poor data was given, if I remember correctly)

2. Directly, aggressively and repeatedly attacking forum users and even other clinics (maybe that is why no other clinic is contribution)

3. Failing to mention the negative aspects of FUT e. g. that the strip itself destroys grafts and this is for small procedures not neglectable)

4. Putting their opinion so blatantly above others (I mentioned that their opinion is very valuable, but it is still an opinion and no one is perfect), without taking into account that

--> a. Many users here are very educated about hairloss (more than a lot of medical doctors I have met)

--> b. The background of the users is not known (maybe some might even have a medical degree)

--> c. We are talking partly math (statistics) and physics (three forces) where medical doctors have no (!) advantage about other educations (engineers etc.)

5. Promoting your own mFUE method without clearly stating it in advance in the FUE vs. FUT thread and also fail to give answers to simple questions to this method like diameter/area etc.

 

Sorry for my bad English!

[mav23100gunther]

Wow! I didn't expect this. I would appreciate some of the examples of the bad results of Feriduni etc. because these people are on my short list.

 

What did you expect when you used keywords Feller, FUE, FUT and debate in your opening post? C'mon man, you asked for this.

 

I am not disputing what Feller is saying at all, but his complete and utter disdain for "the peanut gallery" is unbelievable - I'd actually forgotten about this side to him.