Feller and Bloxham

[JayLDD]

I don't call out doctors, Trix.

 

 

 

And if that's not enough, simply view that horrid video Dr. Bhatti posted of himself performing an FUE extraction on one of his own patients. Then compare it to the serene and controlled manner that FUT grafts are dissected from the strip.

 

Come on Dr. F.

[MAGNUMpi]

 

People pay him for his surgical skills, not how he debates. I like his frankness. It has made me consider FUT over FUE (still haven't made my mind up though hence why I am hoping the debate goes ahead).

What you read as frankness, I read as aggressiveness. I'm not implying for a second that he isn't a great doctor, but reading so much personal tension between him and other HT patients is disconcerting.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

What you read as frankness, I read as aggressiveness. I'm not implying for a second that he isn't a great doctor, but reading so much personal tension between him and other HT patients is disconcerting.

 

Magnum,

Thank you sincerely for the kind words. That was very nice of you to write what you did and I truly appreciate it.

 

It's hard to interpret intent in an online forum post because it's just text without body language and tone of voice.

 

Trix is right and he gets it. I'm trying to be direct and frank. There is way too much incorrect information floating around the internet about FUE based on wishful thinking, incorrect information, and deliberate mis-information.

 

I'm trying to deliver facts, but facts don't care about feelings so the person stating them may come across as aggressive and uncaring in an online post.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Come on Dr. F.

 

You didn't do your research before you made your post.

 

Dr. Bhatti called me out, not the other way around.

 

He started it, I finished it.

[MAGNUMpi]

Magnum,

Thank you sincerely for the kind words. That was very nice of you to write what you did and I truly appreciate it.

 

It's hard to interpret intent in an online forum post because it's just text without body language and tone of voice.

 

Trix is right and he gets it. I'm trying to be direct and frank. There is way too much incorrect information floating around the internet about FUE based on wishful thinking, incorrect information, and deliberate mis-information.

 

I'm trying to deliver facts, but facts don't care about feelings so the person stating them may

come across as aggressive and uncaring in an online post.

Ok. To each their own. I get it.

[Shampoo]

What you read as frankness, I read as aggressiveness.

 

I think some of that could be a bit of built up frustration over years of basically non-stop "oh FUE is so wonderful" BS. Both procedures have their pros/cons, but for awhile the squeaky wheels were only speaking about the positives of FUE and only speaking of the negatives of FUT....when in reality BOTH have pros and cons.

[mav23100gunther]

Mav,

 

I think it has become ridiculously obvious that the only reason you come onto this site is to attack me or to promote your own doctor. So I am disappointed that the moderators would allow that agenda driven behavior to continue.

 

I do not attack doctors like you do. I criticize procedures by offering facts. You are a layman and don't understand the facts. But the FUE practitioners do. So it is up to them to come onto this forum, which they all read, and refute the facts I have offered. To date only one has ever tried and I wiped the floor up with him by posting his OWN video of him performing FUE extractions.

.

 

Dr Feller, with all due respect, this statement by you is complete and utter nonsense. If you actually read my posts, you will see that I use this site to ask questions, used it as a research tool for my own procedure, documented my second procedure in detail, and try to help others where I can by chiming in or answering questions. Do I inadvertently promote my own Dr in the process, yes I do, but why wouldn't I seeing that I had such success with him, success that I backed up in real time with my own thread and pictures. I acknowledge that my rant above comes off as an attack on you, but I have also supported you and Dr Bloxham previously, including in your infamous FUT vs FUE thread, as well as when Professer made his allegations against you last year. You accused me of using this site only to attack you and promote my own doctor. Seeing that you only present facts, then please can you provide evidence that all my 1,000 + posts do exactly that and nothing else? If not, then I would appreciate a retraction and an apology.

 

Sample of some of my past posts below:

 

You left out Dr Wesley. I think Feller is probably the best in NY, but Wesley is worth a look. My advice to you, don't limit yourself to New York. I am a New Yorker, and travelled to Ottawa for my own 2nd procedure. I thought that the best surgeons for me were not in NY.

 

Wazaam, I must admit that I find it shocking that you took this particular quote from Dr Bhatti, and then passed it off in a differnt context as Dr Fellers. Have to agree with the Dr on this, and I know thats what journalists do all the time, but it was shocking none-the-less. His original quote on learning disabilities was fair game, but not this one. Sorry bud

 

Honestly, although I appriciate this input, I feel Dr Bhatti has danced around the claims made by Dr Feller, and hasn't really refuted much of anything, specifically disproving the theory that besides the linier scar, FUT is a better procedure than FUE. Still awaiting Dr Bhatti's view on lifetime donar supply, yield, and cherry picking of grafts of FUE as compared to FUT. He also hasn't explicitly stated that he has successfully overcome the three forces. No disrespect to the doctor, but in my opinion he is dancing around the topic rather than addressing it head-on. Sort of like our dear politicians do.

 

Dear Dr Bhatti,

 

With all due respect sir, I must admit I am dissapointed by your post above. Although sincer, you still have not disputed any of the statements made by Dr Feller on his view of FUT being a better procedure than FUE. You mentioned previously that you disagree with some of his statements, please can you ellaborate on why you feel that way, i.e. 1) can the three forces of FUE mentioned by Dr Feller be overcome 2) Does FUT really provide a greater number of lifetime donor grafts compared with FUE 3) Is the transection rate on FUE higher than that of FUT 4) Does FUE damage the donor region more than FUT 5) Is cherry picking for FUE really a myth as you still can't really identify singles from doubles?

 

Honestly, the fact that neither yourself nor any other FUE surgeon is coming out and disputing the facts laid out by Dr Feller is just adding credibility to what he has stated, and for someone like myself, I really have no option but to trust what he states. So far, the only pro to selecting FUE over FUT is the lack of that linier scar, is that really the only one?

 

Please please please can you make good on your promise and engage in an intellectual debate. Looking forward to hearing your views.

 

The good Dr. makes a good point here. A hell of a lot of members hiding behind keyboards are actively shooting down the facts laid out by Dr. Feller and trying to convey that he is wrong and they are right. It's more than possible that these guys are specialists and know what they are talking about, but I highly doubt they are close to as qualified and experienced than Dr. Feller. If they want to come out and challenge the good Dr, then to his point, lay out who they are and what qualifications they have. I'm also not saying they are wrong about their beliefs regarding FUE, but the facts as they stand is that NOT 1 single FUE specialist surgeon or verified FUE subject matter specialist has come out and challenged Dr Feller or laid out an adequate rationale as to why Dr. Feller is wrong. I admit that I have no idea about what is right and what is wrong, but what I do know is that based on the information provided by Dr. Feller, and information obtained from the 7 or so surgeons I consulted with, I have absolutely no reason not to believe the facts and opinion laid out by Dr. Feller in his and other threads. In fact, only one surgeon, Dr. Maras recommended that FUE would be better for me than FUT, and his reason was that he believed he could get a better result because he is able to cherry pick the singles, pairs, and threes via FUE. To be honest, so far the only valid counter-argument I have heard favoring FUE over FUT is the linier scar.

Edited May 23, 2017 by mav23100gunther

[Spanker]

I am not a physician, but I have seen a lot of cases. The first thing that I think of when I read these threads is: "People would be so much better served if they concentrated half as much on how the grafts are put it as they do how they are pulled out."

 

Seriously, we still see pitting, cobblestoning, hairlines that are too low, ridiculously high, over packed, over spread, crappy temple points, etc, etc, etc. There is still room for improvement in the industry without such a concentration on this debate.

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

I think some of that could be a bit of built up frustration over years of basically non-stop "oh FUE is so wonderful" BS. Both procedures have their pros/cons, but for awhile the squeaky wheels were only speaking about the positives of FUE and only speaking of the negatives of FUT....when in reality BOTH have pros and cons.

 

Very nicely stated.

[TrixGlendevon]

Dr. Feller - You said in a video that all top surgeons will use FUT examples on their websites as they give the best results but Dr. Lupanzula has almost entirely FUE megasession examples, and they're videos too not jsut photos, on his website. The results look very good too. Do you have an opinion about this?

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Dr Feller, with all due respect, this statement by you is complete and utter nonsense. If you actually read my posts, you will see that I use this site to ask questions, used it as a research tool for my own procedure, documented my second procedure in detail, and try to help others where I can by chiming in or answering questions. Do I inadvertently promote my own Dr in the process, yes I do, but why wouldn't I seeing that I had such success with him, success that I backed up in real time with my own thread and pictures. I acknowledge that my rant above comes off as an attack on you, but I have also supported you and Dr Bloxham previously, including in your infamous FUT vs FUE thread, as well as when Professer made his allegations against you last year. You accused me of using this site only to attack you and promote my own doctor. Seeing that you only present facts, then please can you provide evidence that all my 1,000 + posts do exactly that and nothing else? If not, then I would appreciate a retraction and an apology.

 

Sample of some of my past posts below:

 

Mav,

1. You have made uncalled for and inappropriate personal attacks on me in threads.

2. You have inferred and outright told people to visit your doctor instead of seeing doctors in NY-especially me.

3. You are an aggressive and relentless cheerleader for your own doctor.

 

The evidence is attached.

 

Why don't you stay off my threads and just keep your mouth shut when my name comes up. You've made your attacks, points, and subtle digs. You should have your fill by now.

 

It's demonstrable that you stalk me in an effort to harass and injure my reputation. Your second to last post attacking me and calling on the moderators to somehow censure me was particularly disgusting and libelous.

 

You are not a patient of mine. I have never met you. You have never met a patient of mine. We have no business together nor relationship of any kind. Stop trolling me and the threads that refer to me.

 

 

1. Your personal insults:

 

 

 

 

 

2) Don't go to NY doctors, go to Rahal in Canada instead:

 

 

This is in response to someone else who was saying to go to Rahal:

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Cheerleader:

 

 

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Dr. Feller - You said in a video that all top surgeons will use FUT examples on their websites as they give the best results but Dr. Lupanzula has almost entirely FUE megasession examples, and they're videos too not jsut photos, on his website. The results look very good too. Do you have an opinion about this?

 

I can't speak to what that particular doctor does and does not do. You would have to ask him, I don't assume to know anything about him as I've never heard of him or met him.

 

I will make my general premise clear because I know what you are getting at in the bigger picture:

 

I believe most FUT doctors are not performing FUE. They may claim it, but the lack of FUE results on their website and on the forums is a pretty strong indicator that they really aren't doing as much FUE as they claim, OR, their FUE results are not worth posting-which is worse in my opinion.

 

The same can be said of FUE doctors. I suppose some could claim they do both FUE and FUT, however, if their gallery includes few to no FUT results it would be fair to question whether that doctor is actually performing FUT in the numbers he is implying, OR, that he is doing some FUT but producing results he may not want posted online.

 

Being able to perform both procedures gives a much greater air of credibility to prospective patients. All doctors know this, and this is why I believe so many FUT doctors falsely claim they SUBSTANTIVELY perform FUE when they really don't.

 

The same, I guess, can be said for FUE doctors. Rather than being viewed as a one trick pony they too understand the importance of being perceived as being able to offer both procedures substantively even though in actuality they don't really perform much FUT.

 

If you want to know if a doctor actually performs FUT regularly it's pretty simple:

 

1. Look online and his website in the photo gallery. If you don't see FUT cases then something is probably up. Ask him to show the photos to you if he has them. Make sure of the dates.

 

2. Ask him how many FUT procedures he has performed in the last week, month, year. How many grafts were the cases ?Have him commit it to writing.

 

3. Ask how many full time in-house technicians he has to dissect the grafts from the strip and reimplant them. Should be a minimum of five in my book. In my clinic I keep a minimum of 8 full time and in-house (never shared).

 

4. How many technician workstations does his clinic have WITH microscopes ?

 

5. Ask for a photo of the clinic that includes the staff and the workstations. If the office is very small, you are probably not dealing with a serious FUT doctor. That's why so many doctors are attracted to FUE. Low overhead, few staff, and small physical plant.

[TrixGlendevon]

This all actually makes very good sense - thank you again for the reply. I was recommended the doctor by a couple of people on here and his results are good. He is recommended on this site too. He does appear to be FUE orientated though and I think, conclusions of my consults pending, I am leaning towards FUT now. Thanks for the advice re. the questions too. I am starting to compile a list of them to ask.

[mav23100gunther]

Dr Feller, respectfully, I have not done what you continue to accuse me of doing. You have yet to prove that all I do is stalk your threads and promote my own clinic in all of my 1,000 odd posts. Last time I looked this is an open forum, and one in which personal opinions are welcome. I have never stated anywhere that you are a bad surgeon, nor do I think that. I personally believe folks should not limit themselves to just New York when selecting a surgeon. I did consult with Dr Wesley in NY, and although I was very impressed with him, it doesn't change my opinion that folks should expand their search to other cities. In the very first post you attached below, notice how I said "You lost me AFTER Feller" instead of "You lost me AT Feller". Quite frankly, I have always found the manner in which you address members of this forum deplorable. Once you even referred to us as "mentally challenged" and "peanuts in the peanut gallery". Now you are accusing me of harassment and stalking? Those are strong words. I really hope you don't talk to your own patients that way when they are unhappy or dissatisfied in any way. It is for this very reason that I personally would never select you as my surgeon, not because I think you are not a very skilled surgeon. You are, and your videos and posts for the most part have been extremely informative to me, hence why I comment on them and commented extensively on your FUT vs FUE thread. In this particular thread, which is not even yours by the way, It rubbed me the wrong way that you refused to accept those perfectly reasonable conditions to interview and record that interview with the said FUE doctors. Hence my rant. If it offended you, then so be it, but I just feel you needed to be called out on it. There is no reason why you would need a 3rd party involved to do that interview. Quite frankly, I can't see the said FUE surgeons ever agreeing to record that type of discussion, and I think you know it. Moving forward, I will respect your ask (more like a threat) and will gracefully not address you personally again, nor will I comment on any thread initiated by you, but it is well within my right to provide my own opinion, within the terms of conditions of this site, and I will continue to do that on any threads not initiated by you that I so desire, including this one as it is not a thread initiated by you. Do not for a second think that the fact you have a PHD gives you the right to bully me around. Your latest rounds of accusations, threats and insults directed to me are completely unacceptable, and I will not tolerate them from anybody, Esteemed Doctor or not. None of my posts that you presented above are harassment, stalkerish, trolling or defamatory, so I will appreciate a retraction and apology.

Edited May 24, 2017 by mav23100gunther

[JayLDD]

"Once you even referred to us as "mentally challenged" and "peanuts in the peanut gallery". It is for this very reason that I personally would never select you as my surgeon, not because I think you are not a very skilled surgeon."

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/161233-9-5-months-pics-1000-fue-dr-feller-not-good-so-far-9.html

 

This along with his treatment of the patient and God complex presented throughout this case is my personal issue with Dr Feller.

 

It's clear that his support of FUT is due to a passion, facts, experience and a feeling of ethical responsibility, however in presenting his case he CONSTANTLY gets himself into a position that shows a lack of empathy and understanding for the patients perspective, which is particularly devastating when he performs a bad result on a patient and often gets ugly.

 

I will say agree with the majority of what he says to an extent and so would anyone who has looked at hundreds of cases, the prime examples with FUT being a higher success rate, higher yield, lower transection rates, less skeletonized and fragile grafts, a smaller overall area of scarring and donor damage, and a removed chance of taking grafts from a zone of future miniaturisation. I also agree that the big reason a SUBSTANTIAL number of FUE patients (maybe the majority) avoid FUT is simply because they are scared of having a strip removed from their head, plain and simple.

 

The area I don't agree is that I don't have to be a surgeon to see that other recommended FUE only surgeons on this network are consistently performing successful FUE megasessions and multiple sessions that cross into the 5000-8000 levels with success and minimal donor scarring visible past a grade one. I did a long search for who I thought was getting the most consistent results of any doctor and I settled on Koray Erdogan, despite the fact that he ONLY performs FUE. He regularly performs 5000 over two days with little complications, and I'd argue gets more consistent aesthetically pleasing results than almost any FUT doctor I researched. We all know the other doctors in Europe who are achieving similar feats such as Lupanzula, Feriduni, Lorenzo etc. (many of who have more results to view online than Dr. Feller) The typical Feller response of "I'm not aware of their work" is clearly an outright lie, or stupid wilful ignorance. Notably the top end FUE surgeons are performing manual FUE.

 

It comes down to the fact that there are a select few doctors who are primarily utilizing FUE that are more consistent and artful surgeons than the vast majority of FUT surgeons, and the prices in Europe make make it tempting too. There are successful FUT AND FUE sessions performed and posted on this website on a weekly/daily basis, and to deny that is stupidity. Many are aware FUT is the smarter option for a myriad of reasons, however just don't want a strip cut out of the back of their head.

 

People should look at the RESULTS from as many FUE and FUT doctors as possible and make an informed decision for themselves. I think even with the awareness of what Feller says to be true, many would still prefer FUE.

Edited May 24, 2017 by JeanLDD

[Bill - Seemiller]

Guys,

 

This topic has recently been brought to my attention and I can see several references by various posters that we, as the moderators shouldn't allow this topic to continue. What I do find odd however, is that nobody (until today) has brought this topic to our attention. There are literally hundreds of posts created by members each and every day and it is virtually impossible for Dave and I to read and respond to each and every post. Not only that, but some posts, while controversial are simply statements of opinions and people seem to think that just because a statement of opinion makes someone unhappy that we should jump in and moderate the discussion.

 

We have always said that members should do their best to share their opinions respectfully. At times, when it's obvious a particular post or poster is out to unfairly malign another member, the moderators will step in and intervene. But we still rely on you, our members to notify the moderators about a potential problem so that we can investigate it.

 

So for now, while I investigate the specifics of this thread, I have temporarily locked it and will then decide on whether or not it's worth re-opening for discussion.

 

In the meantime, I encourage you, as adult members to stop thinking that moderators are supposed to put a stop to discussion just because you don't like something. Behave and respond like adults, respect one another, and topics will go a lot more smoothly and essentially moderate themselves. That's not to say that there won't be times that moderators will need to step in. But in general, I've seen a lot of posts by people who have said things out of anger that they may not have said if they were thinking clearly. In the future, I encourage these posters to step back, take a deep breath, clear their minds and then post a response when they are more level headed.

 

I'll respond again shortly after I've had a chance to read through all 40 plus pages of this topic. While I've read some of it before, nobody has told me exactly where the controversy starts and which member or members I should investigate. Just some general comments as to why we are allowing this conversation to continue. So if anyone has any specifics they can PM me about while I'm reading through everything, it will save me a LOT of time.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Ok, so I finally got done reading through the bulk of this topic and I have to say that for the most part, it's just a lot of individuals presenting dissenting opinions coupled with chest-beating. While I wish there was more cohesiveness and congruency, this particular topic always generates controversy and dissention.

 

But frankly, I'm really not sure what anyone expected the moderators to do here. While there may have been a few comments that were insulting, overall, it was just an aggressive conversation about Strip Vs. FUE and their opinions. This ALWAYS happens when this topic comes up.

 

The only real issue on this topic seems to be between Mav and Dr. Feller, which has gotten overly heated and has started go get out of control. So perhaps I locked and stopped the continuation of this topic at a good time.

 

At this point however, I think everyone had their say on this topic and other than repeating the same things over and over again, I think it's better that we leave it locked and move on to bigger and better things.

 

In the future, I ask that everyone be more respectful towards one another and try to remember that we are actually all here for the same reasons - to share our experiences, opinions and acquired expertise about hair restoration. Remember, many are still trying to learn and acquire as much quality information as they can to make an informed decision about undergoing hair transplant surgery. Let's make it easier for them by writing and responding to one another respectfully without arguing and being combative towards one another.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill