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Jimmy86

Will 2500 grafts be enough density for my head???

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Hi,

I have just recently had a consultation with a hair transplant doctor who only performs FUE and he said i should have around 2500 grafts maybe even a little less and it should give me a "reasonable" desity. I am 30 years old and this is going to be my first surgery, im just a little worried that once its fully grown in 2500 wont be dense enough to look "normal" i am afraid that people may think im thinning. I have had smp treatment done twice now but i am completely over the look of it, i need hair again but i dont want to spend a ton of cash to make myself look like i did before i shaved it off and got smp. Ive marked where the hair line has receded too and am wondering how much density 2500 grafts will roughly give me?

Any feedback will be appreciated.

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It should be enough density if you have a little bit of existing hair in the same area... just curious how do you feel about the smp on a shaved head? did people notice? how was your overall expierence with it

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Impossible to tell really without seeing your donor hair grown out, how much existing stable hair you have etc. Beware of doing more than 3000FUE grafts in one sitting. Better to go a bit more conservative like the doc suggests.


4,312 FUT grafts (7,676 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2013

1,145 FUE grafts (3,152 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2018

763 FUE grafts (2,094 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - January 2020

My results thread from 1st procedure.

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I agree...there would need to be a little more hair length in the frontal area to be able to see how much native hair there is to start with.

 

Then, it is a matter of how much the proposed grafted density would be and knowing a little bit more about your hair characteristics such as the degree of hair caliber.


Gillenator

Independent Patient Advocate

I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk.

Supporting Physicians:  Dr. Robert True & Dr. Robert Dorin, New York, NY

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Your concerns sound like you should consider FUT. FUT gives you more available donor hair and costs less. Make sure and research trichophytic closures. FUT scars have come a very long way.

 

Remember that it doesn't matter what others think (if you are thinking), what matters is how you feel.


My HT Journey

The FUT surgery experience and results

 

Disguising my FUT Scar

 

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Supplements: Biotin, MSM

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Eyeballing it I have my doubts that 2,500 will give you a density that won't want you wanting some more.

 

I've had three different procedures addressing the frontal third, and it took them all to get a density I wanted.


Hair loss patient and transplant veteran. Once a Norwood 3A.

Received 2,700 grafts with coalition doctor on 8/13/2010

Received 2,380 grafts with Dr. Steven Gabel on 9/30/2011

Received 1,820 grafts with Dr. Steven Gabel on 7/28/2016

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Thanks for the replys,

The reason im worried is that I've seen a few before and after photos of people with a less hairloss area and more grafts placed and they still look quite thin after it grows in.

As for the hair left in my hair loss area i would say there is next to nothing especially the temple areas, the upper middle area has maybe 20 to 30% left but I'd say it wouldnt add much to the density.

My donor area i would say is quite good, before i shaved my hair everywhere apart from the thinning area was quite thick funny thing was before i started losing the hair i used to get annoyed with how thick and fast it grew lol.

To answer ur question det9925 about smp id have to say from my experience its a good quick fix if your waiting to save for a transplant but the problem i have with it is it just doesn't have the same look as it does when i first had it done, the first few months are great but the individual "dots" start to fade and have a washed out look as time goes on and this doesnt take very long to occur. I had my first smp over 2 years ago and it looked great for about 3 to 4 months but as time went on it started looking very pale snd washed out so i got a top up about a year ago but that has already started to fade aswell and adding more "dots" just adds to the washed out look once they start to fade aswell. The worst is when im outside in bright light it just looks like im completely bald because of the shin. in my opinion its just not worth it unless your planning on getting a transplant within 6 months or so it could bye you some time.

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Thanks for the replys,

The reason im worried is that I've seen a few before and after photos of people with a less hairloss area and more grafts placed and they still look quite thin after it grows in.

As for the hair left in my hair loss area i would say there is next to nothing especially the temple areas, the upper middle area has maybe 20 to 30% left but I'd say it wouldnt add much to the density.

My donor area i would say is quite good, before i shaved my hair everywhere apart from the thinning area was quite thick funny thing was before i started losing the hair i used to get annoyed with how thick and fast it grew lol.

To answer ur question det9925 about smp id have to say from my experience its a good quick fix if your waiting to save for a transplant but the problem i have with it is it just doesn't have the same look as it does when i first had it done, the first few months are great but the individual "dots" start to fade and have a washed out look as time goes on and this doesnt take very long to occur. I had my first smp over 2 years ago and it looked great for about 3 to 4 months but as time went on it started looking very pale snd washed out so i got a top up about a year ago but that has already started to fade aswell and adding more "dots" just adds to the washed out look once they start to fade aswell. The worst is when im outside in bright light it just looks like im completely bald because of the shin. in my opinion its just not worth it unless your planning on getting a transplant within 6 months or so it could bye you some time.

My case is a good example of why 2500 probably isn't enough..but may be an appropriate start.

 

My signature attests to the fact it took a few rounds.

 

Realize this is a journey, likely over several years and not just a one and done.

 

PM if you'd like private details about my journey and doctor experiences.


Hair loss patient and transplant veteran. Once a Norwood 3A.

Received 2,700 grafts with coalition doctor on 8/13/2010

Received 2,380 grafts with Dr. Steven Gabel on 9/30/2011

Received 1,820 grafts with Dr. Steven Gabel on 7/28/2016

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Jimmy86 I agree you need to let your hair grow out a little for us to give you better advice. You probably need 3000+ and if your worried about people thinking your new transplant hair is just "thinning" hair than i suggest you don't get a transplant cause it's never going to match your natural hair 100%

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I was able to find a photo of my hairloss which was taken right before my first smp treatment, this photo was taken over 2 years ago. I feel like the hairloss hasn't got much worse except for maybe the front area in the middle which is nearly gone completley.

I understand i wont be able to get my hair to match the normal hair in density but im afraid it might look very thin under bright light and really stick out. When i started losing my hair i had "friends" point out that im "going bald" especially when i was under bright light, i dont want to go back to that stage i want it to look acceptable enough to a point that it won't make people look at my head and I've got my doubts that 2500 grafts will do that.

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How long ago did you have your SMP? It's interesting to hear that the result didn't last and I wonder how typical that is of SMP. To be very honest, I can't see any evidence of the SMP in your photos. I would expect to see the stubble effect but all I see is virtually bald scalp.

 

If you receive 2500 grafts I really don't think you'll be happy with the result. I don't like having to be negative but it seems that you have high expectations and I just don't think those expectations would be met with a procedure of that size.

 

The photo taken before SMP appears to show more native hair in the area so I suspect that you've lost more hair since then. How long has it been?


I am a patient and representative of Dr Rahal.

 

My FUE Procedure With Dr Rahal - Awesome Hairline Result

 

I can be contacted for advice: matt@rahalhairline.com

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I just scrolled past this thread. First off...I agree with the poster who said you should consider FUT....you should. IF you are willing to have half inch long hair...forever...you should. It's more likely to work and work well in larger cases in thin hair like it LOOKS like you have.

 

Just eyeballing your later picture....you're a 3000 graft strip now and next year another 15-2000. You look class 5 to me. I just put up a video yesterday on the perils of too little hair on too much bald head....you should watch it. You don't have to agree with me, but you need to be informed as to what a case can do for you.

 

Lastly, in the last year I've seen at least 30 guys who have had SMP by no name people, well known SMP people referenced on this forum and companies who do only SMP. I've seen 2, TWO, people who were both happy and looked normal. I'd guess that 20 or so had virtually all of the pigment GONE by a year and 5-10 looked odd...meaning off color pigment or bleeding of the ink or un-natural design. So for your SMP to be gone at a year is completely normal in the population of people I see. As with lots of things, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA


William H. Lindsey, MD, FACS

McLean, VA

 

Dr. William Lindsey is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians

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Jimmy,

 

Based on your stated goals along with the photo you provided, I also sincerely doubt that you would be happy with a 2500 graft procedure. There is far more bald surface area for 2500 grafts to cover. And density is measured more accurately by the level of grafted density than by just viewing the area and taking a guess. I do agree with you that SMP works best when it is blended in with some level of existing hair. There certainly are quite a wide level of expertise in SMP artists...some very good and lots that should not even be doing it.

 

So plan on expecting to receive more like 6,000 - 7500 total grafts but not all at once. Concentrate in the frontal core and work towards the mid-scalp however keep in mind that the frontal core will need at least 60 FU per cm2 to provide any meaningful visual coverage that you may be satisfied with. The more coarse your hair is, the better visual coverage, generally speaking. If the degree of caliber is thin, it could take even higher density levels to satisfy your goals.

 

You also need to have your donor region physically examined and evaluated to see how many usable grafts you have to work with. I also concur that FUHT would be a better approach since your need in total grafts is definitely on the high side.

 

However be aware that wearing a buzzed down hairstyle would not be possible after having several FUHT procedures due to the strip scar that would be left. Your proposed strips would probably reach across the entire back of your scalp.

 

I recommend that you take some time and give some serious consideration as to think things through. Get multiple opinions as to how potential surgeons would work with you and provide realistic plans based on your donor resources. This will help you put together an attainable approach so you won't ne disappointed.

 

Wish you the best in your journey my friend...;)


Gillenator

Independent Patient Advocate

I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk.

Supporting Physicians:  Dr. Robert True & Dr. Robert Dorin, New York, NY

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Hi guys, sorry for the "very" late reply, i had problems with my password and sorta just gave up for awhile. Anyway thank you for the feedback i have booked in a transplant with dr. Radha in india and hoping to get 3000 to 3500 fut performed in november, thought i better get the ball rolling because im just wasting away atm not doing anything with my life because of my situation. Hope she pulls a rabbit out of the hat for me.

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Many ht docs have said to me to start of with 2500 grafts i wonder if this is a standard or safe number or something?

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2500 is the approximate number of grafts that can be removed safely in one FUE procedure, as well as being a suitable number of grafts for patients who want to restore frontal recession.

Sometimes doctors will go higher if they decide that the patient's donor area can support more extractions.


I am a patient and representative of Dr Rahal.

 

My FUE Procedure With Dr Rahal - Awesome Hairline Result

 

I can be contacted for advice: matt@rahalhairline.com

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I just re-read what I said back in March and since then others have offered the same kind of advice. You need 3000+ grafts so I think you've done the right thing by booking a procedure of that size. The last thing you want is to undergo a procedure and end up with "too little hair on too much bald head" (to quote Dr Lindsey). You've lived with a shaved head and even though you obviously aren't happy that way (hence why you've booked the HT), the fact is that you'd look better sticking with the shaved head that you would with an inadequate HT result.


I am a patient and representative of Dr Rahal.

 

My FUE Procedure With Dr Rahal - Awesome Hairline Result

 

I can be contacted for advice: matt@rahalhairline.com

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Thanks for the advice people if it wasn't for that then I'd probably be doing the fue with dr. Bhatti and only receiving a little under 2500 grafts and potentially damaging the donor area for future procedures.

Hey mattj i seen your question on the other thread about having any current photos, ill try to put some up in a minute but it really sorta looks the same as it did in the previous ones i put up, maybe a little more faded if anything. Also how much of a difference in density do you think it would be between having 2500 vs 3500 grafts?

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Having trouble putting any pics up because of "Size limits" ill have a look later when i have more time but looking at these current pics compared to the ones i put up earlier in the year it does look a little more faded. I first got the smp performed at a place in brisbane and the guy told me i will be fine for up to 5 years before maybe having to get a touch up but it was less than 12 months before it was so faded that i needed to get another one, the second time i went to a place here in sydney because i had lost any faith i had in the other guy and this guy told me the same thing "you'll be right for 3 to 5 years" pffft absolute load of crap!! both times the detail in the pigments faded away within 3 months and within 5 to 6 months it looked like SHIT!!! In harsh light "especially in the sun" you can barely tell there is anything there just looks like a big shiny bald head. Definitely nothing like how they advertise it on their websites...

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The difference between 2500 and 3500 grafts is a big one and if your intention is to cover the area you outlined in the photos then the lower figure is almost certainly not enough.

 

However, I have to say that when hair is buzzed short, it's very difficult to accurately judge the density in either the recipient or donor areas. Having SMP will make the photos even harder to assess. I know that when I've shown photos like yours to Dr Rahal, he has declined to give any kind of graft quote and asks that the patient send more photos once they've let their hair grow out a bit.

 

BTW, SMP is a subject that I'm really getting an interest in, so if you can't upload the photos here, you can always send them to me via the email in my signature.


I am a patient and representative of Dr Rahal.

 

My FUE Procedure With Dr Rahal - Awesome Hairline Result

 

I can be contacted for advice: matt@rahalhairline.com

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To be honest, it's fair to expect to have at least two transplants for density sake.

 

It all depends upon your hair characteristics and expectations.


Hair loss patient and transplant veteran. Once a Norwood 3A.

Received 2,700 grafts with coalition doctor on 8/13/2010

Received 2,380 grafts with Dr. Steven Gabel on 9/30/2011

Received 1,820 grafts with Dr. Steven Gabel on 7/28/2016

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Very few if any individuals with MPB can get by with a single procedure as MPB is progressive over a lifetime.


Gillenator

Independent Patient Advocate

I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk.

Supporting Physicians:  Dr. Robert True & Dr. Robert Dorin, New York, NY

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There is some current photos of how it looks, and thats being indoors, if im outside in the sun its just a big shine.

some people may say it looks fine but im not happy with it what so ever, i was told it would be a lot more darker and detailed by the idiots who performed the smp. At first it was quiet good and i was happy with it but it only took a few months before it started changing.

An interesting thing is if i expose it to sunlight for even as little as 20 minutes or so it fades very badly and goes very light and then for some reason it slowly returns to its previous "darkness" within about 2 weeks . One day last year i went on a bush walk out in the middle of nowhere and took my hat off for about 45 minutes to an hour and then put the hat back on, When i got home and went to jumped in the shower i took my hat off and looked in the mirror and nearly fainted, it basically looked like i never had smp, i couldnt believe my eyes and it sent me into a huge bout of depression. It slowly returned but it took nearly a month. I have no idea why this happens and i am just completley over it i just cant wait till this transplant comes and the hair grows in im just hoping it doesnt look so 'thin' that it looks stupid.

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