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I'm changing from Finasteride and upping the juice to Dutasteride

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On 12/15/2016 at 11:06 PM, spex said:

So the time has come after nearly 17 years on 1mg finasteride daily to up the anti and I'm going to start now taking 0.5mg Dutasteride daily instead as i feel I've possibly now started to lose ground in the crown region do to the attack of DHT.

 

Ive had an incredible run with finasteride as it regrew and helped keep my mid/crown for nearly two decades but after monitoring my crown for a couple of years now i feel it is time to get ahead of the game and increase my defence against the dreaded DHT.

 

I've spoken at length with prescribing Dr too here in the UK and he's been very helpful and informative. I've also spoken to a number of guys who've made this move from finasteride to Dutasteride who've had positive results so feel this is an informed move and one I'm hopeful will benefit me. After 17 years too on finasteride with no side effects I'm also hopeful i'll transition on to it with no issues either.

 

I will keep you informed periodically on any progress and i'll be making a documented blog on my website too.

 

Regards

Spex

 

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I am an avid user of Finasteride too. Your post is so reassuring regarding the usage. 


Counsellor at Eugenix Hair Sciences

Dr. Arika Bansal & Dr. Pradeep Sethi

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5crlGyTac2hlU1gHneADzQ

 

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On 10/28/2017 at 1:11 AM, arussell said:

Okay guys I am going to tell you like I would explain to one of our patients. Finasteride and Dutasteride are kind of like cousins. They act in a lot of the same ways but fin blocks the conversion of T to DHT at about 65% and its 1/2 life is about 6 hours. Dut blocks more 5Alpha reductase enzymes and is about 95% BUT 1/2 life is much much longer. Here is what we have seen in years of prescribing, if a patient had no issues on fin, I have not seen them develop with DUT. but no one can say they won't. The potential is not greater for side effects it is the 1/2 life so if you did have one you might have it longer. There is one small study on DUT that shows a decrease in sperm motility. So would not start out with this med unless you are on a T replacement which changes the dynamics of what Dr. Cooley recommends. DUT is used in other countries for hair loss on a regular basis. We have had patients on this med who successfully fathered children. Doubling fin doses doesn't really help. The way it works is on that 65% in that ability to stick and prevent the conversion. The other 30+ percent are resistant to it so it would not matter if you took it hourly.

Does that mean that it is better to take Dutasteride that Finasteride? 


Counsellor at Eugenix Hair Sciences

Dr. Arika Bansal & Dr. Pradeep Sethi

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5crlGyTac2hlU1gHneADzQ

 

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Better is a relative term.  They are similar but different.  The recommendation to use the stronger is something only you and your physician can determine.  As I mentioned it is stronger so in certain situations it works better.  We do not generally start out with this, generally, it is something graduated to.  Fin blocks at 65%, depending on your genetic programming and your response to medication we start to see that the response is like a bell curve and after a certain time frame, the 30% that is resistant becomes more apparent.  Another reason is being on a testosterone replacement which can exacerbate male pattern balding in those susceptible to DHT. 


Ailene Russell, NCMA

Clinical Supervisor for Dr. Jerry Cooley

Carolina Dermatology Haircenter

Charlotte, NC

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, arussell said:

Better is a relative term.  They are similar but different.  The recommendation to use the stronger is something only you and your physician can determine.  As I mentioned it is stronger so in certain situations it works better.  We do not generally start out with this, generally, it is something graduated to.  Fin blocks at 65%, depending on your genetic programming and your response to medication we start to see that the response is like a bell curve and after a certain time frame, the 30% that is resistant becomes more apparent.  Another reason is being on a testosterone replacement which can exacerbate male pattern balding in those susceptible to DHT. 

I have been on Finasteride for a couple of years. Almost 4 years to be exact now, with periodic breaks of some months in between. 3 months breaks twice in this entire episode. Did not have side effects but I seemed to lose hair when not on Finasteride. I have been reading about Dutasteride. your post has been super helpful. I am so looking forward to slowly switching to Dutasteride now. Will be posting about that experience also.

Edited by Gabreille Nelson Mukhia

Counsellor at Eugenix Hair Sciences

Dr. Arika Bansal & Dr. Pradeep Sethi

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5crlGyTac2hlU1gHneADzQ

 

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Start out on Finasteride and move up to Dutasteride if and only if needed.

Id been on finasteride a long time and felt it in my best interest to move up as felt the crown region was showing signs of losing ground.

 

do not take both as no point.

Regards

SPEX 

 

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Posted (edited)

Hey Spex, 

Its your call but here's my 2 cents :

You already ran tests for almost 2 decades with no side effects, fathered twins after being on Finastride for 9-10 years.

Your immunity and hormones are well adapted to Finastride; so why change it to take further risk for something so small/unnoticeable. 

Your pic is specifically focusing on your mid/crown aerial shot in  sunlight, imagine if you're in normal daylight, day to day activities, its barely noticeable 

Also, to thicken that area

  • Must try PRP ( a few sessions  within a year, it should boost growth ) 
  • Must get LLLT Helmet - i  restore is a good proven brand 
  • May be 200-400 grafts HT in crown area as an option 
  • Dermmatch and toppik spray - just a tiny bit every time you feel the need to cover this nicely 

Again, its your decision - you know better :) but I wouldn't  try and break a process that is proven to work in your case for almost 2 decades now. 

Who knows how your body reacts to DUT and the possible side effects ( if any  ) ;  I mean your story displays that you always strive for perfection and endured so many HTs that one cannot imagine. 

But you can still achieve almost perfect results on your crown area by trying any or all of the above mentioned methods

Good Luck !

 

Edited by HLPToronto

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, HLPToronto said:

 I mean community also needs member who takes the first step towards these kind of transitions and write cases ( doctors are still new to all this ) just like all those pioneers in the past who tried their bodies in the lab, tested the water and brought some knowledge for future generations.

 

 

Edited by HLPToronto

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I will point out that in reading your post you are taking 1 mg fin.  Most if not all 1mg fin is made in China or India and is for the most part not reliable.  You might want to check your manufacturer.  When finasteride went generic, Dr. Cooley like most docs prescribing allowed his patients to use this.  In a short time frame we like so many clinics worldwide had so many patients who were shedding and losing ground.  The common denominator was the generic Img fin.  So, we don't write it and in many instances, if a patient switches to a more reliable brand (we recommend TEVA 5mg) they stabilize.  The caveat is that TEVA is a little more expensive and harder to find but don't let a pharmacy tell you they can't get it, not true, they just don't make as much money and don't have a contract with them but any pharmacy can order any medication that is legal.  It is all in the hands of their buyer and even varies store to store within the same chain.  BUT folks there is a reason co-pays is cheap... so are the ingredients....... and you are not saving if they are not working.  In generics they companies use whatever filler they can that costs the least, not works the best and they don't have to tell you what that filler is...... and that is your vehicle of absorption.  Just remember all the trials are done on the brand name NOT the generic.

 


Ailene Russell, NCMA

Clinical Supervisor for Dr. Jerry Cooley

Carolina Dermatology Haircenter

Charlotte, NC

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4 minutes ago, spex said:

Start out on Finasteride and move up to Dutasteride if and only if needed.

Id been on finasteride a long time and felt it in my best interest to move up as felt the crown region was showing signs of losing ground.

 

do not take both as no point.

Regards

SPEX 

 

Thank you sir. 

I have this funny thinking on the sides of my head. It looks like I'm preparing to grow horns. I've been hoping that Finax would help me regain density there but it is not so. 

I am really hoping that switching to Dutasteride will be a blessing for me. 

Definitely will not be taking both at once after your advice. Will be troubling you with more questions as I start progressing with the switch.


Counsellor at Eugenix Hair Sciences

Dr. Arika Bansal & Dr. Pradeep Sethi

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5crlGyTac2hlU1gHneADzQ

 

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9 minutes ago, spex said:

Start out on Finasteride and move up to Dutasteride if and only if needed.

Id been on finasteride a long time and felt it in my best interest to move up as felt the crown region was showing signs of losing ground.

 

do not take both as no point.

Regards

SPEX 

 

How has DUT been going for you Spex? Any side effects?

also you taking once a day (7 times a week)

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5 minutes ago, arussell said:

I will point out that in reading your post you are taking 1 mg fin.  Most if not all 1mg fin is made in China or India and is for the most part not reliable.  You might want to check your manufacturer.  When finasteride went generic, Dr. Cooley like most docs prescribing allowed his patients to use this.  In a short time frame we like so many clinics worldwide had so many patients who were shedding and losing ground.  The common denominator was the generic Img fin.  So, we don't write it and in many instances, if a patient switches to a more reliable brand (we recommend TEVA 5mg) they stabilize.  The caveat is that TEVA is a little more expensive and harder to find but don't let a pharmacy tell you they can't get it, not true, they just don't make as much money and don't have a contract with them but any pharmacy can order any medication that is legal.  It is all in the hands of their buyer and even varies store to store within the same chain.  BUT folks there is a reason co-pays is cheap... so are the ingredients....... and you are not saving if they are not working.  In generics they companies use whatever filler they can that costs the least, not works the best and they don't have to tell you what that filler is...... and that is your vehicle of absorption.  Just remember all the trials are done on the brand name NOT the generic.

 

I can so relate to your post. I have been using the Indian brand Finasteride from Dr. Reddy's at 1 mg daily. 

I think I should first start the brand TEVA as suggested by you before making the decision completely to switch to Dutasteride. 

Just wish me luck that I find it.


Counsellor at Eugenix Hair Sciences

Dr. Arika Bansal & Dr. Pradeep Sethi

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5crlGyTac2hlU1gHneADzQ

 

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Another point, finasteride blocks enzyme #2  at about 65%.  Dutasteride blocks 1 and 2 5 aplha reductase enzymes.  But it can create a slight spill over of Estrogen in doing this which can cause gynecomastia. If our patients are taking Dutasteride we generally also recommend Arimidex to block that potential.  And some docs do recommend taking both ..... at least initially.  Because of the 1/2 life of either Dr. Cooley (and many others) do not feel you need to take either on a daily basis.

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Ailene Russell, NCMA

Clinical Supervisor for Dr. Jerry Cooley

Carolina Dermatology Haircenter

Charlotte, NC

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6 minutes ago, arussell said:

I will point out that in reading your post you are taking 1 mg fin.  Most if not all 1mg fin is made in China or India and is for the most part not reliable.  You might want to check your manufacturer.  When finasteride went generic, Dr. Cooley like most docs prescribing allowed his patients to use this.  In a short time frame we like so many clinics worldwide had so many patients who were shedding and losing ground.  The common denominator was the generic Img fin.  So, we don't write it and in many instances, if a patient switches to a more reliable brand (we recommend TEVA 5mg) they stabilize.  The caveat is that TEVA is a little more expensive and harder to find but don't let a pharmacy tell you they can't get it, not true, they just don't make as much money and don't have a contract with them but any pharmacy can order any medication that is legal.  It is all in the hands of their buyer and even varies store to store within the same chain.  BUT folks there is a reason co-pays is cheap... so are the ingredients....... and you are not saving if they are not working.  In generics they companies use whatever filler they can that costs the least, not works the best and they don't have to tell you what that filler is...... and that is your vehicle of absorption.  Just remember all the trials are done on the brand name NOT the generic.

 

Some good points there but  I dont necessarily agree with your " reliability " comment if 1 mg Fin is manufactured in china/india.

I mean the only difference between Finpecia ( asia  ) and propecia ( american ) is that the finpecia is not FDA approved as it falls outside those boundaries. However, both have the same 1 mg finastride component; so no difference there absolutely. 

Also, what would you recommend - Finpecia or propecia for someone who just would like to stick to finastride 1 mg a day for next 2 years or so ?

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Holding strong

no side effects 

 

Regards

SPEX 

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12 minutes ago, arussell said:

Another point, finasteride blocks enzyme #2  at about 65%.  Dutasteride blocks 1 and 2 5 aplha reductase enzymes.  But it can create a slight spill over of Estrogen in doing this which can cause gynecomastia. If our patients are taking Dutasteride we generally also recommend Arimidex to block that potential.  And some docs do recommend taking both ..... at least initially.  Because of the 1/2 life of either Dr. Cooley (and many others) do not feel you need to take either on a daily basis.

Okay. I do understand why such measures need to be observed. 

Do people usually lessen the dosage of Dutasteride eventually?


Counsellor at Eugenix Hair Sciences

Dr. Arika Bansal & Dr. Pradeep Sethi

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5crlGyTac2hlU1gHneADzQ

 

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34 minutes ago, HLPToronto said:

Some good points there but  I dont necessarily agree with your " reliability " comment if 1 mg Fin is manufactured in china/india.

I mean the only difference between Finpecia ( asia  ) and propecia ( american ) is that the finpecia is not FDA approved as it falls outside those boundaries. However, both have the same 1 mg finastride component; so no difference there absolutely. 

Also, what would you recommend - Finpecia or propecia for someone who just would like to stick to finastride 1 mg a day for next 2 years or so ?

You are incorrect in your description of the differences in brand vs generic.  Fillers are very different generic to generic and the content of the medication is changed by changing this.  As I reported, we had no issue allowing people to try this and had huge failure in particular with the one you name among them, these patients went back to brand and stabilized....  So I will disagree with you from practical experience in many many many patients.


Ailene Russell, NCMA

Clinical Supervisor for Dr. Jerry Cooley

Carolina Dermatology Haircenter

Charlotte, NC

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To answer your last question, we do not write 1mg finasteride because of all the issues we have had with reliability.  If a patients wants 1mg from us they are written brand name.  

 


Ailene Russell, NCMA

Clinical Supervisor for Dr. Jerry Cooley

Carolina Dermatology Haircenter

Charlotte, NC

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58 minutes ago, arussell said:

To answer your last question, we do not write 1mg finasteride because of all the issues we have had with reliability.  If a patients wants 1mg from us they are written brand name.  

 

so  I am on finpecia right now ( bought 6 months supply from Dr. Bhatti's clinic after my first HT done on 18th March  in India ) 

After my stock  is finished, I anyways need to buy more supply of finastride . I live in Toronto.

Which brand name for finastride I should be going forward with ?  " Propecia " 1 mg ??

I heard local doctor's prescription is required before I could buy propecia here in Canada  

 

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1 hour ago, arussell said:

Another point, finasteride blocks enzyme #2  at about 65%.  Dutasteride blocks 1 and 2 5 aplha reductase enzymes.  But it can create a slight spill over of Estrogen in doing this which can cause gynecomastia. If our patients are taking Dutasteride we generally also recommend Arimidex to block that potential.  And some docs do recommend taking both ..... at least initially.  Because of the 1/2 life of either Dr. Cooley (and many others) do not feel you need to take either on a daily basis.

Hello, I am fortunate that I get to access your experienced knowledge. It is definitely super helpful and I would without a doubt rely on it.


Counsellor at Eugenix Hair Sciences

Dr. Arika Bansal & Dr. Pradeep Sethi

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5crlGyTac2hlU1gHneADzQ

 

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4 hours ago, arussell said:

Another point, finasteride blocks enzyme #2  at about 65%.  Dutasteride blocks 1 and 2 5 aplha reductase enzymes.  But it can create a slight spill over of Estrogen in doing this which can cause gynecomastia. If our patients are taking Dutasteride we generally also recommend Arimidex to block that potential.  And some docs do recommend taking both ..... at least initially.  Because of the 1/2 life of either Dr. Cooley (and many others) do not feel you need to take either on a daily basis.

In my opinion, if you have to take an Aromatase inhibitor with a medication it’s probably not worth taking. That’s just my opinion.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

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Just now, Melvin-Moderator said:

In my opinion, if you have to take an Aromatase inhibitor with a medication it’s probably not worth taking. That’s just my opinion.

well that being said it is because of the testosterone replacement that this domino effect occurs....  We have never had a side effect from this and have a good many patients use this combination.  All meds have a double edge.... 


Ailene Russell, NCMA

Clinical Supervisor for Dr. Jerry Cooley

Carolina Dermatology Haircenter

Charlotte, NC

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