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Best affordable place for surgery in Europe?


Zim

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  • Senior Member
jcs87, I understand what you're doing in terms of asking other posters. But what do you like? Which doctors impress you? You have to remember, there are many doctors doing good work, but only a small number of names get passed around as "recommendations". Only 3 years ago did Bisanga get on this forum, and few english speaking posters had heard of Dr Lorenzo. I don't know how many of those realize that Dr. Vila's results also are part of Injerto Capilar's results library. Most posters hadn't heard of Couto, but in a few months you see posters touting him. Relying on poster recs will lead you to a limited set of names. Just FYI.

 

Hi KO, here is my thought process:

 

1. I'm quite new to the forums and pretty new to the world of hair surgery in general. One of the things that has made me successful in my career up to this point is that I'm smart enough to admit when other people know more about a topic than I do and I am more than willing to engage with them and leverage the knowledge that they have accumulated over years in their particular field of expertise.

 

I also work in big data analytics so I've become quite good at synthesizing very large amounts of information. So as you have already pointed out, I am trying to stimulate conversation, gather a wide range of opinions, and potentially hear some debate amongst all the people on these forums that have accumulated years of valuable knowledge.

 

2. To stick with the business analogy one of the things that employees that have been with a company bring to the table is legacy knowledge. Lets say you have two employees with the exact same skills - one of them joined 6 months ago and one of them has been with the company for 6 years. One of the big things that the tenured employee can provide is context and legacy knowledge to things that have happened in the past. What was the thought process behind the company choosing Strategy X over Strategy Y, which high ranking executives at the company like each other versus can't stand each other, etc.

 

To bring this back to the world of hair transplants, by gathering a wide range of opinions on a variety of the top doctors I'm hoping to discover things that would have otherwise remained hidden to me or would require reading thousands of threads going back years and years (I'm happy to put in the time but time is a finite resource and it's just not realistic to read every single thread on every single recommended doctor - and if you broaden the scope to all hair surgeons in the world it becomes literally impossible to achieve). So what are some of the things I'm looking for? Here are some random examples off the top of my head:

 

Negative examples:

1. Doctor XYZ used to be top notch and have amazing results but in the past couple years results have gone downhill

2. Doctor XYZ used to perform all the surgeries himself but in recent years he has switched to a model of having techs do most of the work and he oversees things

3. Doctor XYZ produces amazing results but he seems to have a higher number of patients that suffer from infections or post-op complications

4. Doctor XYZ produces amazing results but there are concerns in the community about his ethics due to over-use of grafts on young unmedicated patients, low hairlines on advances NW's, etc.

 

Positive examples:

1. Doctor ABC is a top-notch surgeon with amazing results but he just isn't very well known because he doesn't do a lot of online marketing and his clinic is targeted to non-english speaking men (Cuoto would appear to be a perfect example of this)

2. Doctor ABC is relatively new on the scene but his training was with a world renowned surgeon, his skills are top notch and he also has reasonable prices relative to some of his peers (Lupanzula would potentially fall into this bucket)

 

I could go on forever but this post is already getting too long so I'll cut it off there.

 

As you correctly pointed out the downside to relying on any group of people, or any certain list is that you potentially overlook very talented surgeons that haven't been "discovered" by this community. By engaging with a variety of individuals on the forum I hope to broaden the scope of my search and maybe capture some of those proverbial diamonds in the rough and look into them further. That being said, it's impossible to look into every surgeon and at some point you need to utilize recommended lists and experienced members recommendations to refine the list down to a manageable number.

 

To give another analogy, when I need a new jacket there are millions of different jackets available for sale from thousands of different stores. I can't try on every single jacket, so I go with brands I recognize or I ask a few fashionable friends which jackets they've been wearing recently. (and no I'm not saying that choosing a $10,000 hair surgeon is the same as buying a $150 jacket - my point is just that no one has unlimited time so at some point we need to find strategies to make our search process more efficient).

 

Similar to how a CEO solicits opinions from the knowledgeable people that report to him, Once I feel like I have gathered a reasonable amount of info and have gotten opinions from smart and knowledgeable ppl that have been doing this longer than I have THEN i can make my decision - and of course I know that at the end of the day that responsibility lies with me. No one else can tell me who is gonna be right for me.

 

Hope that sheds some light on how I am approaching this.

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  • Senior Member

I understand, but your process strikes me as very vulnerable to groupthink. Additionally, it is incorrect to assume that others know far more than you do. A good example is that you were surprised that many good surgeons didn't come out of mikeyhwk asking surgeons who they would operate with. This was entirely predictable - because doctors have the same biases as posters.

 

There is no other way to doing research besides personally looking at doctors' results and trying to determine yourself. But since you mentioned that you wouldn't know enough to determine this, the real question you should be asking is, what makes a doctor good?

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KO actually has a good point, and you may find yourself in a position where you may become more confused than when you started. Reason being there are so many options these days with decent hair restoration surgeons all over the globe performing both FUT and FUE.

 

What are your goals, who are among the best in the world at achieving such goals, who are the competitive surgeons in price but who also do not have negative reviews or failed cases? These questions should help you get to a more filtered down list.

 

After you get a short list of 3-4 surgeons the community can then also help you sanity check your final decision.

go dense or go home

 

Unbiased advice and opinions based on 25 plus years of researching and actual experience with hair loss, hair restoration via both FUT & FUE, SMP, scalp issues including scalp eczema & seborrheic dermatitis and many others

 

HSRP10's favorite FUT surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr Hasson, Dr. Rahal

HSRP10's favorite FUE surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr. Bisanga, Dr. Erdogan, Dr. Couto

(*indicates actual experience with doctor)

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Frankly, I just think you're wrong on a number of these points and I am happy to explain why.

 

I understand, but your process strikes me as very vulnerable to groupthink.

 

Well obviously group-think is a term that carries a negative connotation. We could just as easily choose a phrase that carries a positive connotation such as "jcs's approach is leveraging the collective wisdom of the group." Both of those terms are addressing the fact that I'm looking to gather info from a group of individuals...you just choose to frame it as a negative thing whereas I think it's positive.

 

That's one of the major advantages of these forums in the first place - it allows a prospective surgery client to be put into contact/interact with people that have relevant knowledge/past experiences. I find it rather bizarre that you think it's such a crazy idea for me to use the forums in such a manner.

 

Additionally, it is incorrect to assume that others know far more than you do. A good example is that you were surprised that many good surgeons didn't come out of mikeyhwk asking surgeons who they would operate with. This was entirely predictable - because doctors have the same biases as posters.

 

You're making a pretty big assumption here. The assumption is that all of these posters and doctors are all so biased that it is heavily skewing their perspectives. Perhaps the reality of the matter is all of these people on the forums and all these doctors arrive at the same "elite" list for one incredibly simple reason: because those doctors really are the best.

 

It's like when everyone says Kobe, and Michael Jordan, and Lebron are the best basketball players in the world. And you say "well everyone just thinks that because they are biased." Well maybe...OR it's just that those three guys are so clearly elite that everyone who knows anything about basketball can agree they are the best.

 

And just for the record I think it's probably somewhere in the middle - the guys that get passed around as "recommendations" probably are some of the best but as you have pointed out there are probably other doctors that are in the same league but just don't get as much attention for whatever reason.

 

There is no other way to doing research besides personally looking at doctors' results and trying to determine yourself. But since you mentioned that you wouldn't know enough to determine this, the real question you should be asking is, what makes a doctor good?

 

I think it's a bit arrogant to keep on promulgating the idea that your approach is the only way to conduct research. There are multiple ways to conduct research - a prudent individual would utilize all of the resources they have at their disposal.

 

Based on your proposed strategy I'd be interested to hear your answer to these questions:

 

1. If I shouldn't be talking to other people on the forums about who they think is elite (or asking hair surgeons who they recommend) then how should I narrow down my list? For that matter if we follow your logic then I can't trust the list of recommended doctors on this forum since it has its own biases and requires payment of a fee to participate. So if "There is no other way to doing research besides personally looking at doctors' results" then the logical outcome to that argument is that I need to go create a list of every hair surgeon in the world and go through multiple sets of before and after pics for hundreds of surgeons?

 

2. Additionally, just looking at before/after pictures doesn't effectively address a number of the specific examples I laid out in my previous post:

 

 

Negative examples:

2. Doctor XYZ used to perform all the surgeries himself but in recent years he has switched to a model of having techs do most of the work and he oversees things

3. Doctor XYZ produces amazing results but he seems to have a higher number of patients that suffer from infections or post-op complications

4. Doctor XYZ produces amazing results but there are concerns in the community about his ethics due to over-use of grafts on young unmedicated patients, low hairlines on advances NW's, etc.

 

 

3. I would also argue that there is something to be said for going with a doc that is highly regarded by other doctors in his field, highly regarded by real patients (that I can communicate with on this forum), and has been vetted for inclusion on the various lists (even though I understand that 'vetting' process can be somewhat questionable at times).

 

If you go with some random doctor that has great results but nobody has ever heard of him then what if he is digitally altering his before/after photos? What if he is just stealing before/after photos from other reputable clinics and claiming them as his own? What if he is only showing his best results and neglecting to post his mediocre/crappy results (which any doctor with half a brain is gonna do since it's in his best interests)?

 

You're taking quite a pessimistic view point of my approach. I've laid out a very lengthy and cogent argument for my strategy and why I think it is best, but you didn't really acknowledge any of the strengths of my approach. I also made a point of acknowledging that there are inherent weaknesses to my approach - just like there are with any strategy (including yours). I'm happy to keep an open mind and acknowledge the strengths of your approach and the weaknesses of my own and I would urge you to do the same.

 

Cheers

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  • 6 months later...
  • Senior Member

 

While Dr. Keser has presented several examples of his results on our forum, many members were on the fence as to whether or not we should approve him for recommendation. Concerns surrounding his approval included extracting donor hair outside the universal safezone, lower hairline placement on younger patients and whether or not Dr. Keser was acting in the long term interest of the patient.

 

In my opinion, Dr. Keser appears to be doing quality FUE however, I too share the above concerns.

 

After speaking with Dr. Keser's clinic regarding these concerns on and offline, Dr. Keser and his staff have decided not to undergo the final evaluation and review process and thus is no longer being considered for recommendation. However, this community hopes that he takes the constructive feedback he received from this community regarding his technique seriously and uses it to continue to improve his technique and results.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

 

Just found this while lurking around. Very Interesting: Dr. Keser is well known in the biggest german Forum. He is praised as one of the best for hairlines (nice design and more for less grafts), but the stories are that he is very conservative and picky with his Clients. Doesn't quite match this Feedback here...

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Guest austin123

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  • 11 months later...

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