Your thoughts on "long hair fue" from ASMED (Dr. Erdogan)

[hsrp10]

Some of you may know that I've had several procedures over the past years by Hasson, Konior and Bisanga (temple corners and most recently temple point work).

*I had lost some of the hair from the Hasson procedure due to Nizoral overuse making the Konior procedure and a minor touchup with him necessary.

 

I'm about 98% happy with my HT results and since my hairloss is not that aggressive I have maintained decently even when stopping Fin.

The problem is that Fin really destroys my sleep and makes me feel quite fatigued when on it. (most recently I'm attempting to see if .625mg 2x week makes a difference).

 

My current plan is to therefore try to stay off of Fin as much as possible, and then "maintain" with FUE touchups in non transplanted areas over the coming years.

Getting the long downtime to shave my head would be ideal, but 4-5 months is not going to happen anytime soon for me.

 

So I've been thinking about possible long-hair FUE or non-shaven FUE with Dr. Erdogan at ASMED. The problem is that there are not a lot of cases of published results yet on the internet.

Some brief details from them on it:

- The extraction part of the surgery is performed with special punches patented by Dr.Koray, the incisions are performed by Saphire Blades in order not to damage original hair roots and the placement of the grafts by KEEP (Koray Erdogan Embedding Placer) again patented by Dr.Koray.

 

Do you guys think long-hair or non-shaven FUE increases the risk for transection and shockloss and decreases the chance for high growth yield? Would be happy to hear from the veterans out there including anyone who has undergone long-hair FUE.

[ModernHair]

I had non-shaven FUE by Dr. Harris. In his practice, they leave your hair long and trim the donor hairs underneath so the donor hair sites are completely undetectable. It made it pretty easy to avoid anybody from knowing about the procedure except, of course, for the first few days where the transplant sites are pretty red and you can't really groom your hair so you just lay low for a little bit.

 

I did have a good bit of shockloss in the recipient area but nothing in the donor area (at least that I could detect).

 

Sounds like Dr. Erdogan has a slightly different twist on it but if you go for it, definitely let us know how it goes!

[gillenator]

The hair wherever grafts are extracted will be cut down before the extraction takes place so the transection rate should not be any higher because once the hair is cut down, the surgeon is able to see the natural direction and angulation of the hair.

 

It's the other surrounding hair that can be left to length so that the entire donor area does not have to be shaved down.

 

And shock loss is induced from the trauma of the procedure both from the incisions as well as the fluids that are injected into the scalp. So long hair or non shaven FUE won't increase the likelihood of this IMHO.

[hsrp10]

Hi ModernHair,

 

Seems like you had a positive experience with a non-shaven procedure, good to hear that!

How is your second procedure growing in and when did the shock loss grow back?

[hsrp10]

Hi Gilenator,

Good to hear your insights here as always.

 

I'm trying to eliminate the possible risks in a future HT, and I've always felt shaving down or at least buzzing down makes it easier for the surgeon to place those minute incisions between hairs.

However if a non-shaven procedure can be performed at the same level of risk, then the benefit of shorten down time would be much welcomed.

 

Do you recommend non-shaved or long hair FUE to the patients you advise?

[wibbles180]

Dr erdogans new method actually involves extracting long hairs and implanting long hairs there is no shaving whatsoever ! From what I can see he is using it only for small hairline touch ups etc but it is of course pretty undectable to the naked eye ... I think it is also more expensive than his standard shaven fue ...hdc clinic (dr maras) offer fue where they only shave the donor area but actually have an onsite barber to give you a reasonable haircut i.e. Blended in but then you obviously have to wait for donor area to heal

[hsrp10]

From what I can see he is using it only for small hairline touch ups etc but it is of course pretty undectable to the naked eye ...

 

Exactly the plan, only considering this as I had previous large procedures before and overall am satisfied with the results. But would like to tweak some minor areas especially if I decide to quit Fin for good.

 

Total shave down for such smaller procedures seems overkill and I've already done it twice before which was enough lol

[MrGio-WHTCClinic]

Some of you may know that I've had several procedures over the past years by Hasson, Konior and Bisanga (temple corners and most recently temple point work).

*I had lost some of the hair from the Hasson procedure due to Nizoral overuse making the Konior procedure and a minor touchup with him necessary.

 

I'm about 98% happy with my HT results and since my hairloss is not that aggressive I have maintained decently even when stopping Fin.

The problem is that Fin really destroys my sleep and makes me feel quite fatigued when on it. (most recently I'm attempting to see if .625mg 2x week makes a difference).

 

My current plan is to therefore try to stay off of Fin as much as possible, and then "maintain" with FUE touchups in non transplanted areas over the coming years.

Getting the long downtime to shave my head would be ideal, but 4-5 months is not going to happen anytime soon for me.

 

So I've been thinking about possible long-hair FUE or non-shaven FUE with Dr. Erdogan at ASMED. The problem is that there are not a lot of cases of published results yet on the internet.

Some brief details from them on it:

- The extraction part of the surgery is performed with special punches patented by Dr.Koray, the incisions are performed by Saphire Blades in order not to damage original hair roots and the placement of the grafts by KEEP (Koray Erdogan Embedding Placer) again patented by Dr.Koray.

 

Do you guys think long-hair or non-shaven FUE increases the risk for transection and shockloss and decreases the chance for high growth yield? Would be happy to hear from the veterans out there including anyone who has undergone long-hair FUE.

 

There are several things to consider: long-hair FUE is the preference of those who desire to eliminate all chances of being detected, and the patients who have results do not wish to release their photos because of many reasons. We could speculate about many of the reasons and one or many reasons could legitimately apply.

[Transhair]

Considering that they seem to use a proprietary tool for it and only perform smaller procedures, I'd imagine that they take the necessary precautions to avoid any risks caused by keeping the hair longer.

 

If I can ask though, why do you feel nizoral killed some hair transplant hair? Did you use it too early?

[hsrp10]

MrGio,

That is a very good point, most people undergoing such procedure will be doing so in order to hide the fact, and wouldn't necessary be posting their results openly on internet forums.

 

Hi Transhair,

Yeah it seems safe at least the way they describe it anyway, but hoping to see some actual results if possible over time.

 

I recorded my hair growth after the Hasson procedure on a daily basis and noticed I was losing ground despite having had an amazing procedure and being on Fin. I started Nizoral about 6 months after, after Dr. Lee's shampoo went off the market after he was shut down by the FDA.

Eventually I realized it was the Nizoral as I was using it like 5 days a week for my SD and also there were posts by Sepx and others about overuse causing sheds.

After stopping some grew back but still lost some decent density.

 

I have a post on here I made about 3 years ago.

[hsrp10]

Ok so I got some more detailed information on long-haired FUE, it's basically for those with virgin scalp i.e. those who have never had a HT procedure before as a "homogeneous scalp" donor area is best to work with for this type of procedure.

 

So for HT veterans non-shaven recipient area or the good old fashioned shave down are the options.

[wibbles180]

Thank S for that info did they say there's a limit on how many grafts can be extracted and just for small hairline work or can the vertex be worked as well ? Is it 6 Euro per graft ??

[gillenator]

Hi Gilenator,

Good to hear your insights here as always.

 

I'm trying to eliminate the possible risks in a future HT, and I've always felt shaving down or at least buzzing down makes it easier for the surgeon to place those minute incisions between hairs.

However if a non-shaven procedure can be performed at the same level of risk, then the benefit of shorten down time would be much welcomed.

 

Do you recommend non-shaved or long hair FUE to the patients you advise?

 

You're welcome my good friend. Listen, I put far more emphasis on the surgeon's skill and proven track record. So it's not always the methodology although it obviously has its place.

 

If I had to give you an overall general opinion across the board, I would say that shaven FUE is probably a better way to go in order to minimize transection. And the more existing hair there is to work within, the more critical that factor becomes.

 

There is really not very much long hair FUE being performed and IMHO, most surgeons would prefer not doing it. Still, you have to go by the proven overall track record of the surgeon who is performing the procedure.

[voxman]

I had a choice for my 2nd HT and decided to shave. I didn't want to have any nagging thoughts about 'what if' if things did not turn out as expected. They did turn out fine (Thank You Dr. Mohebi) and I am very happy and can't even remember the ugly duckling phase being that horrible - and I had to get in front of people less that 30 days after.

[Paulygon]

I had a choice for my 2nd HT and decided to shave. I didn't want to have any nagging thoughts about 'what if' if things did not turn out as expected. They did turn out fine (Thank You Dr. Mohebi) and I am very happy and can't even remember the ugly duckling phase being that horrible - and I had to get in front of people less that 30 days after.

 

Me too. Dr. Mohebi said it could make a 10% difference in final results. So I shaved.

I also had shock loss (my fault for not getting on meds sooner). So I had a very bad ugly duckling phase, which lasted 3.5 months (I am at 4 months now) and things are almost back to pre-operation at this point. See attached pic, which I made today.

[hsrp10]

Hi Gillenator and Voxman,

 

I'm in agreement with both of you and kind of back where I started lol, believing that shaven is the best approach.

Just the long downtime of several months is not going to happen for me anytime soon.

Also agree it's the surgeons skill that makes or breaks the outcome.

[hsrp10]

Hey Pauly !

Good to hear from you man.

 

I think I read your ugly duckling phase post before when I was traveling.

Good to see that things are getting better for you.

 

Were you off Fin due to sides? Ive been on and off but when I can tolerate it hair gets a major boost of course. Will check out your latest thread.

[Paulygon]

Hey Pauly !

Good to hear from you man.

 

I think I read your ugly duckling phase post before when I was traveling.

Good to see that things are getting better for you.

 

Were you off Fin due to sides? Ive been on and off but when I can tolerate it hair gets a major boost of course. Will check out your latest thread.

 

Good to hear from you too hsrp!

 

At the time, I had started a new relationship. I got off of meds because of some combination of the following reasons:

 

 

1. the side effect of watery you-know-what. I thought it would be embarrassing. Now I just spin it off as being manly (lol).

2. I wanted to give my body a break from the medicine.

3. stupidly, I thought there may be a chance that my body has adapted to having hair and stopping medication might not drastically change my hair quality.

4. my gf was so infatuated with me at the "new relationship phase" that I felt it doesn't matter how I look.. little did I know how after the "new relationship" phase, every little flaw is nitpicked. a few months after stopping the meds, I started getting comments from her and her family about how I am losing hair and it is probably because I wear a hat too often.

5. part of me knew that I do need to get a 2nd HT in the future and I wanted an honest assessment of what areas of my scalp need implants. Since implants are resistant to DHT they are permanent and this would reserve the option of getting off meds again in the future but still having a scalp with proper distribution of hairs (a good look / not too many hairs in one area and not enough in other areas).

 

 

 

Bad points of getting off meds:

 

1. You can lose hairs that will never grow back!

2. You can lose ALOT of hairs VERY QUICKLY and people WILL notice the balding but your mind still thinks that you have a decent amount hair. Eventually the mind catches up to reality and you either get back on it or just accept your more bald look.

 

[hsrp10]

Hi Pauly,

I think you did the right thing especially regarding #5, in the future if you have to ever go off Fin again then most of your hair will be basically permanent. Though you had to go through a lot to get to that stage, but I think in the long run it will be worth it.

 

What is your current Fin dosage btw? You may have read that I cycle a few months on then off due to sleep-related side effects and am now on .625mg 2x week on Tuesday and Friday. If this works out I will try to stay on long term.

 

Since a lot of my hair is transplanted in the front I don't see any major differences unless I go more than 6 months off of Fin, most recently did seven months off which gave an honest assessment for my temple point procedure with Dr Bisanaga but mid scalp area became a bit thin which is why I started this thread.

[Paulygon]

Hi Pauly,

I think you did the right thing especially regarding #5, in the future if you have to ever go off Fin again then most of your hair will be basically permanent. Though you had to go through a lot to get to that stage, but I think in the long run it will be worth it.

Yes, I went through a lot... basically 2 strip procedures, which I now realize was alot more effort for me than had I done FUE (except it was less $$$).

 

In the future I still may go for 1-2 FUEs because I've seen people who have done 4 procedures (who would have been bald otherwise) and their front hairline looks so darn good. After this 2nd procedure grows out, I think my front will be better (Mohebi did crown but had extra hairs and filled in-between some of the previous implants at the middle to front hairline).

 

What is your current Fin dosage btw? You may have read that I cycle a few months on then off due to sleep-related side effects and am now on .625mg 2x week on Tuesday and Friday. If this works out I will try to stay on long term.

Current dosage is 1.25 mg 1x/day. I considered 5mg/day but at the advice of many people on these forums, decided against it. You guys were right because, as in my pics in my previous post, you see that 3 months of 1.25 mg really counteracted alot of the shock loss I was dealing with at the 1month post-op stage. So for me, it looks like 1.25 is a very effective dosage. I never considered going lower while on the regimen, however I do think it could be a good idea. I am amazed that your .625 mg 2x / week is effective.. but you are an expert on these forums so I'm sure people will follow your lead if it works for you long-term... I know I would consider going lower.

 

Since a lot of my hair is transplanted in the front I don't see any major differences unless I go more than 6 months off of Fin, most recently did seven months off which gave an honest assessment for my temple point procedure with Dr Bisanaga but mid scalp area became a bit thin which is why I started this thread.

Do you plan on getting another procedure in the future?

How many have you had thus far?

[hsrp10]

You're on your way to another great result and in the end it'll all be worth it Pauly!

Yeah I do remember reading your 5mg thread a while back and wanted to shout don't do it bro! Lol due to possible increased sides.

 

I actually took the Dx genetic test for propecia response a few years ago and I tested as an excellent responder, I often can see a cosmetic improvement on Fin even after about 4 weeks when restarting and my hair literally starts to darken and have more body. I don't know if this low dose is the best approach yet but we will see.

 

I've had close to 6,500 grafts so far, and being able to go off Fin for an extended time and have somewhat decent hair still approaching 50 means I'm getting close to being done with HTs, with two caveats of 1) of course if I can remain on lower dose Fin and 2) would like to have one more temple peak procedure in the future.

[gillenator]

I also recently dropped back my dosage to .5 mg every other day and still appear to have good efficiency.

 

We all respond to medications differently and IMHO it's certainly worth a try at a lower dose to help alleviate any side-effects.

 

But as always, consult your physician for advice and direction regarding any medication.

[hsrp10]

How is everything going on .5mg Gillenator?

I hope to switch to prescription 1mg Propecia rather than the 5mg Proscar after it runs out, in order to make it easier to cut into smaller doses like the .5mg you are currently taking.

 

So this is where I stood after 7 months of stopping Fin about a few months ago, hair is wet and parted to show the thin areas in harsh lighting.

Most of the transplanted hair stood up well to time, but some mid scalp area needs a boost, which is why I started this thread. Hate to shave it all down but we will see.

 

I've restarted Fin as mentioned, if I can't tolerate it this time will stop for good and have a procedure to address this mid-scalp area and my lower temple points which make me look old.

Edited October 31, 2016 by hsrp10

[gillenator]

So far so good my friend but the jury is still out. I have not noticed any difference in my hair density but am keeping an eye on it. No side-effects.

 

I see what you mean when you hair is wet but it probably looks pretty good when your hair is dry?