Dr Rassman said temporary SMP "pigments" contain silicone winch migrates to brain

[EvansTelly]

I'm interested in temporary SMP. But after reading Dr Rassman's articles, I'm a bit hesitated. Does anyone know if Dr Rassman's claim is correct?

 

Quote

There are folks that offer temporary SMP, but the 'pigments' contain silicone and other substances which migrate from the place under the skin to deep in the fat, up the blood vessels and silicone has been found in the lungs and brain, so I question the temporary nature of these agents as their temporary nature means that they are moving out of the area that they were placed.

 

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

Interesting. I haven't heard anything about silicone in the SMP pigment ink before. Maybe some of the SMP practitioners on the boards can shed some light on this?

[Slimzy]

Great... I have my appointment in 3 weeks at beauty medical...

 

The pigment is encapsulated in silicon..

[Bill - Seemiller]

This is definitely brand-new information to me but I would like to learn more about this. Perhaps the clinics offering temporary SMP can chime in. I'm almost positive that doctor Rassman provides permanent SMP. I'm not saying that the doctor would provide misinformation about temporary SMP just because he technically competes by providing permanent SMP however, I am very surprised that nobody has seemed to have heard this before. I'm hoping this is not some dark hidden secret that temporary SMP specialists have purposely forgotten to share this with us.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

I think Dr. Rassman is making a case that the temporary ink must migrate somewhere since it's temporary. However, perhaps the ink just fades away and disintegrates after a period of time rather than simply migrating into other parts of the body?

 

I am just venturing a possible guess here and hope that "hairthere" and other SMP professionals will share their professional opinion.

 

All the best,

 

Bill

[Rashid36]

Little is known about the chemical composition, adsorption, distribution, metabolism, and excretion (ADME) of inks. Little information is available on short-term and long- term safety of the pigments, their carcinogenic potential, how they affect the cells that take up the inks, and how the body responds to the interaction of ultraviolet light with the inks. We do know that some tattoos fade or turn colour when they are exposed to light. Research has also shown that some pigments migrate from the tattoo site to the body’s lymph nodes. The long-term health significance of this is unclear.

 

- lymphatic cancer is a result of ink build up in body...

- Ink does not just disappear...

- tattoo causes lymphadenopathy...

 

Also

 

Think Before You Ink: Are Tattoos Safe?

 

[Rashid36]

I was told by one clinic;

 

Part of the pigment when it implanted is broken down by macrophages, the body’s immune system and released through the blood stream. Pigment is also soaked up by fibroblast cells and are suspended in the dermis. Natural cell turnover will also play a part in the pigment fading.

[NicH0le007]

Hey everyone, no need to panic! This is not a secret I have personally discussed it many times in the forums just not on its own thread. Both, dr.ron and I are in procedures right now but I will give you the scientific breakdown, etc by the end of the day. The pigment particles are encapseled in a semisiliconic membrane. Long story short the amount of silicone that is in the membrane can in fact be broken down by the body. It begins to be scary thinking about a collection of silicone that could become the size of a breast implant in your brain. I will give all the technicals by the end of the day, today! But, I didn't want anyone to think I didnt see this. I'll be back as soon as my patient is complete!

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

Makes sense.

 

Look forward to the full explanation.

[matt3480]

Maybe I'm nuts....but wasn't there a guy on here who had SMP and then suddenly was diagnosed with cancer a couple months later? Could obviously be coincidence.....but there seems to have be a lot of uncertainty regarding temporary SMP. Not willing to risk even the minute chance of getting cancer in exchange for that....

[Sean]

That's pretty alarming. I remember TC talking about this as well. I hope there is a well rounded explanation to this. If there are such risks, it should be disclosed, otherwise, there are liabilities. Does anyone have any copies of consent forms when going for this procedure to see what they say? Sometimes they are vague and sometimes they may say it upfront. It would be good to know as it is worriesome.

[Aston33]

Like I was discussing in another thread I wouldn't even of considered temporary smp before, I don't know why the fact a hair loss solution fades quicker than a more permanent version that is available is a good thing, let alone we now find out it now breaks down into the brain and could give you cancer, no thanks!!!

[Spanker]

I am not saying that there are some health risks with SMP, because I have no idea, however, I think we need to look at the actual risk. Things that have carcinogens in them that are in our house are thinks like baby powder, make-up, hair dye, hotdogs, weed killer, some detergents, and the list goes on. I think sweet and low made the list and eggs pop off and on pretty regularly. Not to mention the sun, and basically just being alive.

 

I think it is good to look into and understand the real risks behind SMP, but I don't think it warrants any kind of hysteria at this point.

 

I don't think that silicone is something that metabolizes in the body, so it sounds like it could be a valid point that deserves some attention.

 

Meanwhile, I will be getting ready to grill up the carcinogen of processed meats this evening.

[MilenaLardi]

Hello everybody,

 

I think it is essential to clarify a few things because there seems to be much confusion about the composition temporary SMP pigments.

 

I am going to explain you everything about the temporary pigment used by Beauty Medical and about how this pigment gets absorbed and expelled by human body. I can only give guarantees about my pigment, and of course not about all temporary pigments.

 

Here is a photo of the composition of Beauty Medical’s pigment.

 

 

As you can see, it is composed by iron oxides and titanium bioxides.

 

These particles undergo several phases in the laboratory:

They are selected, weighed, centrifuged, encapsulated by a bio-compatible membrane so that the oxides don’t touch the skin and consequently don’t cause allergies, mixed with liquid excipients (isopropyl alcohol, soy glycerine and denatured water) and homogenized. They are then packed, sterilized with gamma rays and they undergo microbiological quality controls.

 

The phase of filtering is essential because only the particles that are smaller than 15 micron are selected. The macrophages of our immune system have a dimension of 20 micron and can therefore absorb those particles after recognizing them as foreign bodies.

 

Once absorbed by the macrophages of the immune system, the pigment is expelled through urine and faeces, like all other substances our body doesn’t need.

There is no silicon, no substances reaching our brain.

 

Our pigment abides by the ResAp (2008) on requirements and criteria for the safety of tattoos and permanent make-up. It doesn’t damage the body and doesn’t cause cancer. And in fact it can be used on oncological patients.

 

Beauty Medical has been dealing with micro pigmentation for over 20 years and we can provide you with all information and documents in an open and transparent way.

 

We think it is not fair that somebody who deals with other activities shares information in an inadequate and uninformed way in order to discredit our work.

 

In the same way, we choose not to talk about surgeries, pharmacological therapies, etc. because we don’t deal with those activities.

 

Of course I remain at your disposal if you need further information.

[wibbles180]

Don't all tattoos eventually fade ? Where does the permanent ink go too in standard tatoos when they fade ? And do permanent inks have silicone in them ?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Nic0le,

 

Thanks for chiming in with your reply. I will be very interested to hear the full technical explanation especially since a physician has brought up some concerns about the ink. It also makes me wonder about how safe tattooing in general is, whether permanent or temporary. There are people who have tattoos all over their body and as for me, I got my first tattoo on my arm almost a year ago. I will admit that I did not do much research on the safety of ink but since so many people have tattoos and I haven't heard any cases of the ink causing any brain related issues, I didn't think twice to undergo a tattooing. But when you begin to apply tattoo to the scalp, an area close to the brain, it makes you wonder even more.

 

That said, I do feel better based on your reply and hopefully a full scientific explanation will make everybody feel even better yet.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Milena,

 

I had responded before I saw your response but I also appreciate you getting involved to share with us a little bit more of the technical information. It sounds like it's pretty safe so that's quite encouraging. I know personally, I've considered undergoing SMP in the scar to camouflage it even further. But overall it's pretty well concealed so I haven't taken any serious steps to have it done. Also, there is a chance I may get another procedure done in time so I don't want to get something done that may be undone by another hair transplant procedure. Of course, I will most likely at this point go for FUE because I have already gotten four strip procedures, very successfully. But because I know that with each additional procedure there is a increased risk of scar stretching I don't think I will get another strip procedure.

 

I look forward to learning more about the ink and why it doesn't cause any health problems.

 

Bill

[NicH0le007]

Hi everyone,

 

First of all, I would like to apologize for not getting back to you all yesterday like I said I would. Dr. Shapiro and I decided that before we responded we wanted to do some research and find the studies, etc. that Dr. Rasmussen and/or Dr. Pak were citing from.

 

Second, I would like to note that Dr. Shapiro and Dr. Rasmussen have a long working relationship and friendship. We hold both Dr. Rasmussen and Dr. Pak in very high respects. We believe that Dr. Rasmussen is a brilliant doctor and extremely ethical MD. We would like to invite them to please forward us the studies and medical reports in which they found this information because we have done a ton of research and cannot find any document in which anything like this has been reported. The link they provided just brings me to their website. Now, I think they are incredible but we can't claim something as medical fact because we say so...Without the supporting documentation there is no actual scientific proof that this claim in fact occurs. It is nothing more than a personal theory of theirs.

 

I would like to tell you what is proven and absolute about these pigments:

 

1. The EU has the strictest protocol in the world for the manufacturing, labeling, packaging, and distribution of pigments. Their standard far exceed that of every other country in the world. The EU law ban 1,328 chemicals from the manufacture of cosmetics that are known or suspected to cause cancer, genetic mutation, reproductive harm or birth defects. In comparison, the US FDA has only banned or restricted 11 chemicals from cosmetics. Unlike the US, EU law requires pre-market safety assessments of cosmetics, mandatory registration of cosmetic products, government authorization for the use of nanomaterials and prohibits animal testing for cosmetic purposes .With all these restrictions in place that would make trico pigment one of the safest on the market. It feels like they are comparing their pigment against this pigment but what are they using? Where is it from? And, what are the ingredients? How do we know that their pigment is in fact safe? We invite them to share this information.

 

2. Dr. Rasmussen loosely made a reference implying that the reason that the pigment is fading is because the silicone makes it easier to slip through the cell walls and are entering the bloodstream and then to the brain. The silicone that he is referring to is actually a semi-silconic membrane and the reason they are using it for the manufacturing of this pigment is actually to protect patients from infections, allergies, or any accelerated inflammation. No known reports or documentation of an allergic reaction have never been made with trico pigment. The fading of tricopigmentaton is caused by the shallow penetration of the pigment implant and by the particle size of the pigment. The particles are small enough to to slip through cell walls and to be eaten by macrophages and then descreted. That's what separates pigments in general from permanent vs. semi permanent. Permanent Pigment are designed with larger particle sizes so they cannot slip out. As long as the particle of trico pigment are small enough to be eaten and dispelled the body can rid itself of silicone. Rapid cell turnover and the slow healing of the basement membrane (epidermal-dermal layer) allowing pigment to be expelled through the dermis to the epidermis for at least 90 days is what makes the shallow poke important. The studies on silicone that people have been quoting saying that it cannot be dispelled are of macro Silicone conglomerates like aka: breast implant. The body has two different reactions to Macro vs Micro amounts of any particle or substance that we put into the body. As far as the claim that silicone is problematic - those claims were thrown out many years ago when the silicone industry won a reversed judgement in court and the medical community was forced to retract their claims that silicone caused cancer, or any inflammatory diseases, etc. It is widely used today. And, preferred in many situations.

 

3. Iron and Zinc are not dangerous in small doses. They are natural element that are found in the body and responsible for proper function. It should be noted that women who are pregnant are not candidates for SMP because the body will absorb the minerals as if they were a supplement or vitamin. It uses it for what it needs to function at it's maximum potential not because it is damaging anything. The result of this absorption will cause pre-mature fading. When I was practicing permanent pigmentation and or/ am working with permanent cosmetics any patient experiences this pronomina outside of pregnancy I always have them get their iron level tested.

 

We all have and make assumptions about other procedures. The problem with discussing them publicly without fact is that it induces unnecessary panic and distrust. Seems like a biased move made by physicians who have not only publicly stated their dislikes of this procedure but whom also perform the directly competing procedure. Do we know everything about pigments - No. Are their risks - Yes. Any and all medical procedures come with risks. But, the only real medical fact is that is known here is that there are zero reports of any medical consequence that have been made against beauty medical or golden eye.

 

I would like to respond the question above about the person who posted concern about another patient having cancer after getting smp treatments at hasson and wong. If you read the post carefully you will notice he learned of his cancer during the process. Cancer doesn't form quickly it takes years for the cells to mutate and to start presenting problems. Unless, in fact it was an acute form BUT in that case he not have been posting about a year or so later or he would have been deathly ill. That im afraid was a very scary coincidence.

 

SMP is a fairly new procedure medically speaking. We have learned a lot in the last 10 years and i suspect in 10 more years we will have better answers because we will have had time to do studies of the long term results/effect/consequences. Over the past 10 years all of us have made mistakes and struggled to find solutions to common consequences of smp gone wrong. That's what we have been busy researching the last 10 years - it hasn't made sense to research long term consequences because we didn’t have a stabilize the process yet. We were busy trying to keep people safe walking out of the clinic and in the first year. Their group included has struggled with discoloration, migration, and all the other common problems that we talk about. Now that the majority of us have crossed over that hump we are ready focus on long term effects in order to keep perfecting the process. We invite Dr. Rasmussen and Dr.Pak to please keep sharing their medical findings on the permanent procedure as they have been fundamental in the knowledge and growth we have of that procedure today. We will do the same with ours.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Nic0le007
bad grammer :)

[NicH0le007]

Maybe I'm nuts....but wasn't there a guy on here who had SMP and then suddenly was diagnosed with cancer a couple months later? Could obviously be coincidence.....but there seems to have be a lot of uncertainty regarding temporary SMP. Not willing to risk even the minute chance of getting cancer in exchange for that....

 

Maybe Dr. Blake can answer this better.

 

But, the post was on another site I do believe. And, he was still getting the smp procedures at the time. He had been diagnosed with cancer after 1st treatment but before the 2nd. The thing is..cancer does not work that way. It takes years for those cells to mutate. And, he was posting a year after the fact. he was about to be getting another treatment. If it were another acute form a year later he would have been very, very, very ill and or not posting.

[NicH0le007]

Don't all tattoos eventually fade ? Where does the permanent ink go too in standard tatoos when they fade ? And do permanent inks have silicone in them ?

 

Permanent pigment is not designed to fade. It's designed with large particles that cannot escape the cell they are trapped in. When permanent pigment appears to be fading often its tissue damage above the dermis that obscures the image (its easiest to think of this image if you think of someone you know who has tattoos and tans too much in a tanning bed or in the sun - the image is blurry because of the skin damage in the epidural layer) Or, it was placed too deeply and migrated into the subcutaneous layer where the cells are not as compact and able to hold the pigment together tight with the cells next to it (think being in a closet with 40 people vs 2) and it can spread around a little making the image look lighter.

 

The body attempts to rid itself of pigment as if it were an infection when it is implanted. What is dispelled does so via the lymph node, liver, gall bladder, then ultimately urine or feces.

 

Every pigment manufacturer is different. Some do and some don't. Depends on the pigment company your provider uses.

[NicH0le007]

Like I was discussing in another thread I wouldn't even of considered temporary smp before, I don't know why the fact a hair loss solution fades quicker than a more permanent version that is available is a good thing, let alone we now find out it now breaks down into the brain and could give you cancer, no thanks!!!

 

Permanent Pigmentation is a great procedure but it is not in fact for everyone. Depending on the circumstance it is much safer to move forward with a semi-permanent procedure vs a permanent change. For example, if a patient wants to do a density effect and they are not willing to take meds the hair loss is not stable. What's it going to look like in a few years. If you go with a permanent route those bald spots will stand out even more because the hair to skin ratio will cause a contrast vs if they had done semi -permanent they would be fading and we could adjust our technique and color to be strategic with the increased loss.

[NicH0le007]

I was told by one clinic;

 

Part of the pigment when it implanted is broken down by macrophages, the body’s immune system and released through the blood stream. Pigment is also soaked up by fibroblast cells and are suspended in the dermis. Natural cell turnover will also play a part in the pigment fading.

 

That sounds like my line

[hairthere]

Thanks Nicole and Milena for taking the time to post such informative, in-depth answers. I feel very fortunate and lucky to be using such an incredible, safe, quality product. It's also important to note that the majority of clinics offering Beauty Medical's brand of temporary Scalp Micropigmentation are hair transplant surgeons.

[Aston33]

Permanent Pigmentation is a great procedure but it is not in fact for everyone. Depending on the circumstance it is much safer to move forward with a semi-permanent procedure vs a permanent change. For example, if a patient wants to do a density effect and they are not willing to take meds the hair loss is not stable. What's it going to look like in a few years. If you go with a permanent route those bald spots will stand out even more because the hair to skin ratio will cause a contrast vs if they had done semi -permanent they would be fading and we could adjust our technique and color to be strategic with the increased loss.

 

Or if you had the permanent version for a thickening effect you could just have a touch up in a few years when you lose more hair, your comment seemed to imply that you would need to take meds if you have the permanent version, which is actually the exact opposite, if you had temporary you would more likely need to take meds because it would fade a lot quicker and expose the current and new bald areas, then you would need the whole area redone as well as new bald areas instead of just having a touch up on the new bald areas if you had the permanent

[Dr. David Josephitis]

The biggest factor in determining whether to use permanent vs semi - permanent SMP is future hair loss. Many younger patients with early hair loss come to our clinic not wanting to do surgery but want a solution nonetheless. They may or not be on meds for prevention. These patients in my opinion are better served by going the semi permanent route. The reason that this is a better option is as follows. As these patients lose more hair they will need additional SMP. It is not as simple as just adding more pigment into the areas that have faded. The problem with patients who lose more hair is that they need a different pattern and level of density of SMP. If one only adds to the pattern that was originally made, the SMP will only become more obvious (relatively darker looking) instead of less obvious. The magic of SMP is that it is subtle and natural looking. The beauty of semi permanent is that as one loses more hair, the pattern, density and area of SMP coverage can be modified. This cannot be done if one has a permanent pigment already in place.

 

 

 

 

Medications are helpful in preventing hair loss. They are not required though in order to use permanent SMP. I think the key to using permanent is that one feels that the hair loss is more "stable." One can never be 100% certain that no more hair loss will occur. Still, as physicians we try to determine what is in the patient's best interest. A young patient with early hair loss will most likely develop worsening loss over time. This is especially true of one who is not on meds. An older patient without loss over the last few years or a patient who has been on meds for years without much more loss have a more "stable" picture of their hair loss. These "stable" patients, in my opinion are better candidates for permanant SMP.

 

 

 

 

At Shapiro Medical we feel that SMP should be tailored to what is in the patient's best interest. Having said that, in the near future, we will also be doing permanent SMP in addition to semi permanent depending on the patient's needs.