Caffeine and Hair Growth

[Dr. Carlos Wesley]

For the curious folks, here is an interesting article that describes the mechanism by which caffeine can help slow hair loss. It's inhibition of the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT, or the enemy of scalp hair) is caffeine's primary benefit.

 

Now, this doesn't mean that drinking copious amounts of espresso will stimulate hair growth. Rather it is caffeine in its topical form that can have this beneficial effect.

 

 

 

 

[esrec]

Interesting. Have you considered a formulation for patients? What are your thoughts on topical fin?

[matt1164]

I remember once I switched from nizoral shampoo to a caffeine shampoo and that was a terrible move. I lost so much hair it was traumatic. I wouldn't recommend caffeine shampoo to my worst enemy

[Dr. Carlos Wesley]

Formulations are quite popular with patients and, in many cases, they make sense. So, we certainly make them available. Topical finasteride, for example, was shown to reduce scalp DHT levels 40% more that the pill form. When they performed serum draws on that patient population, finasteride was detected in the serum of those taking the pill form, but not in those using the topical version.

[Dolph1969]

Where can you buy topical finasteride? is it as good as the pill form and are their side effects?

[Stig]

Formulations are quite popular with patients and, in many cases, they make sense. So, we certainly make them available. Topical finasteride, for example, was shown to reduce scalp DHT levels 40% more that the pill form. When they performed serum draws on that patient population, finasteride was detected in the serum of those taking the pill form, but not in those using the topical version.

 

Wait, so you are saying Topical fin is proven to be more effective than the oral form? If so, why has the industry been so slow to move over to topical Fin then???

Edited February 26, 2016 by Stig

[Dutchie]

Wait, so you are saying Topical fin is proven to be more effective than the oral form? If so, why has the industry been so slow to move over to topical Fin then???

A topical Fin would be a hundred times more effective and safer than a pill. The problem is with skin penetration, Fin doesnt penetrate the dermis very well, so you need something stronger than propylene glycol. Your only options are liposomes or micelles, and they dont always work very well for every substance or chemical.

 

I know all this because I have a tiny bit of chemistry background in my education

 

P.S. Dr. Hasson is currently working on a topical Fin

[thisguy1]

Wait, so you are saying Topical fin is proven to be more effective than the oral form? If so, why has the industry been so slow to move over to topical Fin then???

 

Also my question.

[thisguy1]

A topical Fin would be a hundred times more effective and safer than a pill. The problem is with skin penetration, Fin doesnt penetrate the dermis very well, so you need something stronger than propylene glycol. Your only options are liposomes or micelles, and they dont always work very well for every substance or chemical.

 

I know all this because I have a tiny bit of chemistry background in my education

 

P.S. Dr. Hasson is currently working on a topical Fin

 

Ok he can't do math but he can chemistry.

 

That's a good explanation - I think it is time for self testing with some liposomes or micelles (whatever the heck those are) on yourself Dutchie. Let us know how it works. :eek::cool:

[Dutchie]

If Big Pharma had found a way to make a topical Fin they wouldve done so a long time ago. Problem is a topical Fin in liposomes doesnt work as well as the tablet (at least thats what I heard).

 

Trust me, the last thing pharma wants is a pill which causes libido side-effects, they much rather have a topical version. But so far they havent been able to do it

[thisguy1]

Formulations are quite popular with patients and, in many cases, they make sense. So, we certainly make them available. Topical finasteride, for example, was shown to reduce scalp DHT levels 40% more that the pill form. When they performed serum draws on that patient population, finasteride was detected in the serum of those taking the pill form, but not in those using the topical version.

 

1. In what cases would it not make sense...you wrote in many case they make sense.

2. Why is this not popularly adopted by the masses if you can get the benefit without much/most of the drawbacks

3. If Dutchie is correct what is the carrier agent for the topical fin to penetrate the scalp?

 

Thx.

[thisguy1]

If Big Pharma had found a way to make a topical Fin they wouldve done so a long time ago. Problem is a topical Fin in liposomes doesnt work as well as the tablet (at least thats what I heard).

 

Trust me, the last thing pharma wants is a pill which causes libido side-effects, they much rather have a topical version. But so far they havent been able to do it

 

If accurate, than what is Dr Wesley delivering to his patients? He wrote it as if a portion of his patients are getting the topical fin.

 

Someone wrote on another thread that they get topical fin from "Italy".

 

Well there goes my hope to just crush the pill and sprinkle it on my bald spots.:cool:

[Dutchie]

3. If Dutchie is correct what is the carrier agent for the topical fin to penetrate the scalp?

Its not a carrier agent, its a "penetration enhancer" (no sex jokes please...LOL).

 

The only effective ones I know (and please doctors, if I'm wrong you can correct me) are:

 

1. Propylene glycol

2. PEG400

3. Lipo's

4. Micelles

 

There might be others, but those are the main 4 I have worked on the last 20 years or so

[Dutchie]

If accurate, than what is Dr Wesley delivering to his patients? He wrote it as if a portion of his patients are getting the topical fin.

 

Someone wrote on another thread that they get topical fin from "Italy".

 

Well there goes my hope to just crush the pill and sprinkle it on my bald spots.:cool:

Because you might still get SOME benefit from a topical Fin.

You see, some of the drug will still get through the dermis, but it might not be not as much you want.

 

The ultimate goal is to have 100% Fin passing through the dermis and into the hair follicle

[Indi9]

I think I have seen a topical finasteride bottle being sold at one of the local pharmacy....can't recall the brand. Will get the name and composition tomorrow.

[Melvin- Admin]

Because you might still get SOME benefit from a topical Fin.

You see, some of the drug will still get through the dermis, but it might not be not as much you want.

 

The ultimate goal is to have 100% Fin passing through the dermis and into the hair follicle

 

Check what Dr. Hasson had to say, accordant to him it's a viable alternative for those who can't tolerate oral fin

 

 

[Dutchie]

And it WOULD be an alternative to oral Fin.

But from all the papers I've read, topical Fin doesnt seem to get the drug into the follicle the way it does oral Fin.

 

Thats just what I've read.

 

If you think topical Fin works better then please tell why hasnt BigPharma come up with an easy topical solution by now??

 

Finasteride was mass-produced around 1995 or so, are you guys gonna sit here and tell me they never thought of producing a topical Fin up till now, or something similar like minoxidil ??!

[esrec]

Debating the merits of big pharma is another topic entirely. With sales of Fin what they are I doubt there's much incentive to cross-sell the same drug. They would be cannablizing their own business and subsequent profits.

 

It's all about business. That's it. Big Pharma does not care. They are also going to court this year regarding Fin and labeling issues, disconnects between information shared across different countries, and post-finasteride issue claims. We all know the 1-2% incident reference is laughable.

 

That aside, would love to hear Dr. Wesley's feedback on the results he's seeing, and more importantly, if topical fin is a best of both worlds scenario. There's another thread that someone started recently on topical fin. I'll try and find it.

[Dutchie]

Check what Dr. Hasson had to say, accordant to him it's a viable alternative for those who can't tolerate oral fin

Great!!!!!!!!!

 

If Dr. Hasson (who I greatly respect) found a way of delivering a topical Fin that works, then all the more power to him!

 

It wouldnt be surprised if he did. That man is a freaking genius!

[esrec]

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/182120-applying-topical-fin.html

[Loki]

Dr. Shapiro is reporting the same success as Dr. Hasson... And yes I agree that delivery is critical so I would only go with the compounding pharmacy that the clinics are using... I will check my label tonight for the delivery method... The things you mention on the thread earlier look familiar.. I will update soon...

[Loki]

Its not a carrier agent, its a "penetration enhancer" (no sex jokes please...LOL).

 

The only effective ones I know (and please doctors, if I'm wrong you can correct me) are:

 

1. Propylene glycol

2. PEG400

3. Lipo's

4. Micelles

 

There might be others, but those are the main 4 I have worked on the last 20 years or so

 

Ok Dutchie I am looking at the device. It says Finasteride gel Liposomial 2.5%. If you want or need me to and can put in the entire label if that helps.

[Dutchie]

Ok Dutchie I am looking at the device. It says Finasteride gel Liposomial 2.5%. If you want or need me to and can put in the entire label if that helps

If the topical Fin works for you as well as Fin tablets, then by golly stick with it