4,200 grafts FUT dr. Hasson Feb. 03, 2016

[Dutchie]

The only techs that do the implantation are the ones with like 15 years of experience right?

I guess you could also give temporary SMP a shot to see if it adds to the density appearance.

 

Also, change to beer instead, the estrogens will help your hair, lol

How's your HT coming along??

[DavidAnderson]

Dutchie,

 

I would agree with what HTsoon says. The red box in the photos is where the density would be greatly reduced compared to the green box. This back part of the scalp always take longer to grow. I also think now is the time to grow it out.

 

None of the results that we perceive are good results with patients that have advanced loss are with hair length like yours the hair needs to be 2-3 inches to layer over one another. It will be tough with the type of hair that you have and you will most likely need to use some product to help do this.

 

Your hair is still maturing and will be even harder to style for the next few months until it settles down but you really need some length if you want to hide more of the scalp. Hopefully you have a lot of fine hair that is waiting to gain length and thicken up as your hair is white it will be harder to see.

 

Keep positive as I know you were really happy a few months back and I hope you will be in another few months.

[Dutchie]

Thanks David.

 

I'm barely hanging on here. Anxiety is killing me

 

I'll be allright though. No worries.

I'm a goddamn trooper!

[mosd]

how much coverage is 65 hairs per cm2 supposed to give?

[Dutchie]

how much coverage is 65 hairs per cm2 supposed to give?

A lot more than what I got now.

 

Here is my 9-month update. Very little progress.

I did a cm2 hair count and it isnt even close to 35 grafts per cm2 right now.

 

I'm gonna give it the full 18 months to see where things stand. I might be a slow grower. My growth started off with a bang, but now its completely stopped in the last 3 to 4 months or so

 

[milo12]

Hello Dutchie,

 

Well just keep in mind that there are no guarantees in hair restoration. But to be very honest I think you got yourself a good amount of growth. Have you talked to your doctor about it?

[Dutchie]

Have you talked to your doctor about it?

No, I'm gonna wait with that until the full 18 months are up.

I got my HT in February 2016, so that would be August 2017 sometime

[milo12]

No, I'm gonna wait with that until the full 18 months are up.

I got my HT in February 2016, so that would be August 2017 sometime

 

Well it has only been 8 months. I do still think you will do fine. Keep your chin up.

[Dutchie]

Well it has only been 8 months

9 months

[Melvin- Admin]

At 9 months to be honest I doubt there will be significant growth enough to mke a big impact, from my 9 months to 18 months I had a little growth but mainly the hair got thicker and matured. If you're not happy with the results thus far I would recommend talking to your surgeon.

 

I looked at your post op photos which is important at 2 weeks the grafts looked similar to what you have now, how you look at 2 weeks before the grafts have shed should be how you look st 12 months assuming growth is good. The area near the crown barely had grafts, I would recommend talking to H&W at 12 months if possible go in for your 12 month follow up take photos and compare your pre op to post op, if the results look poor address right then and there, really no need to wait 18 months, past 12 months the hairs just mature growth should be done.

[milo12]

At 9 months to be honest I doubt there will be significant growth enough to mke a big impact, from my 9 months to 18 months I had a little growth but mainly the hair got thicker and matured.

.

 

Well I thought the gold standard is usually 12 months. But there are cases where growth continues even to 24 months!

 

I still say the OP needs to wait. I am sure more density will come along his way. Think positive and be patient.

[Dr. Victor Hasson]

Thanks Dutchie for permission.

Dutchie's case represents a situation that we not uncommonly face. He has a large area needing coverage with a very limited source of available donor. The challenge here is covering enough area to provide an esthetically acceptable result, and more importantly meeting the patient’s expectations.

Dutchie realized the reality of the situation during consultation. However he felt that he could no longer tolerate the situation as it was, and wanted to proceed with whatever is possible. My words to him were to “try for coverage with no expectation of density.”

The area which I planned to cover was approximately 200cm sq taking into account a necessary blending into the margins which extends beyond the obvious areas of bald scalp.

Dutchie had a small isolated frontal forelock which we integrated into a conservative hairline .This would mean surrounding the forelock by relatively high density (so there would be a seamless transition). Behind this the density would need to fall off fairly rapidly to a medium/low density for the frontal third. Moving further back, the density would be low, changing to very low to transition to the bald crown.

The placement of the grafts can be clearly seen in the photo .For those used to seeing post op photos it can be seen that the placed density is nowhere close to what Dutchie had calculated.

It appears that up until and including month 7, Dutchie was very happy with the progress. At month 8 he became unhappy with the result. I'm not exactly sure what makes a 7 month result that is progressing nicely turn into an 8 month complete failure. Unfortunately the photos are no longer available for me to examine.

The photos that I can see of the frontal third do honestly look good to me .The frontal forelock is blended seamlessly into the hairline, and there is clearly sufficient supporting volume behind this to make it look perfectly natural. Unfortunately, further back behind this, I am not sure of the outcome, as the photos are not sufficiently clear.

A few things that I would like to make clear to forum members:

You cannot compare 4000 FU in the frontal zone of one patient to 4000 FU in another. There are so many other important variables including hair shaft diameter; head size; head shape; hair color vs. scalp color etc.

.

 

 

Good clinics don't have techs having bad days or just unlucky patients. The whole process is so tightly controlled and supervised. There are checks and balances at so many levels. However less than optimal results do occur - but these are often predictable at the time of surgery, as they are for one or another reason difficult surgeries. The patient would be made aware of the problem at the time. Of course, at the time, everything possible would be done to mitigate problems.

 

I understand that Dutchie is unhappy. Of course we don't want this with any of our patients. We thrive off happy patients. The first thing I offered Dutchie was to fly him to Vancouver at the clinics expense. If the case was indeed one of poor outcome, he would be compensated. We do guarantee our work, though we can’t guarantee every ones happiness . We have performed 20,000 cases in this clinic and complaints are not common.

 

Dutchie, I hope that things improve over the next few months. Otherwise we will see you in Vancouver and do our best to make you happy.

 

Victor Hasson

 

[Dutchie]

So I just had a very productive phone talk with Doug from H&W.

He acknowledged that perhaps things could have been handled better from both sides, which is true.

 

If there's no improvement over next 4 weeks or so, I'm going to fly to Vancouver on my own expense, and have Dr. Hasson take a look at my scalp. Maybe we can come to some kind of amicable resolution that leaves both parties happy

[Melvin- Admin]

Dutchie,

I'm glad you had a productive conversation with Doug, I also think 4 weeks is fair, I don't agree with waiting 18 months or 2 years, IMO 12 months should be more than enough time to judge a result. Can there be additional changes after 12 months? yes, but the changes that occur will not change a result from being a failure to success, I'm glad the clinic is agreeing to this I think its fair on both sides. I for one am confident you will reach an amicable solution.

 

I also hope that anyone reading this thread understands that no surgeon or surgery is fail proof, no procedure is fail proof, I think that's the biggest take away here and you've done a good thing documenting it for others, IMO there's sometimes to much hype around a certain surgeon or procedure i.e. FUT or FUE that we lose sight of this real possibility, regardless of who you choose to perform your surgery or what procedure you choose. Again, this is not directed towards Dr. Hasson as I think he has more than enough proof that indicates he's a good surgeon but rather I'm directing it towards the industry as a whole.

[home1212]

great to hear... wouldn't expect anything less from H&W, and you deserve your issues being addressed.

 

Dutchie, would it be possible to see a pic of your current state of growth?

[Dutchie]

Dutchie, would it be possible to see a pic of your current state of growth?

This is my most recent one:

 

[Dutchie]

I also hope that anyone reading this thread understands that no surgeon or surgery is fail proof, no procedure is fail proof, I think that's the biggest take away here and you've done a good thing documenting it for others, IMO there's sometimes to much hype around a certain surgeon or procedure i.e. FUT or FUE that we lose sight of this real possibility, regardless of who you choose to perform your surgery or what procedure you choose. Again, this is not directed towards Dr. Hasson as I think he has more than enough proof that indicates he's a good surgeon but rather I'm directing it towards the industry as a whole

Absolutely spot on. I really dont have anything more to add to that

[Dutchie]

Doug at H&W has been great!!! Couldnt have been nicer.

This man needs the "United States Medal of Public Relations"!!

 

He's on another level!!!!!!

 

Okay, so they dont issue "US Medals of Public Relations".

 

But so what, Doug should earn one!!! LOL!!!!

[H & W Doug]

Dutchie,

 

Thank you, you're too kind!! It was a pleasure speaking with you yesterday, you were great as well. I look forward to your visit to the clinic possibly next month.

[palma13]

Dutchie, sorry to see the result so far. It really breaks my heart. I hope you will be able to get to the bottom of why this happened and perhaps find a solution to fix it. We are all rooting for you and hope you will come back and inform us. At least you went to a reputable clinic so won't have to live the rest of your life with the what if question as far as clinics are concerned. Good luck mate!

 

I would visit a few dermatologists though, perhaps get a scalp biopsy to confirm that there is no underlying inflammatory condition that could have compromised the result. Some peoples' scalps are not amendable to this type of surgery. Best to rule before going through this again. Just some advice.

 

Is there a list of conditions that might interfere with HTs. I would want to get a simple biopsy before I fork over 1000s for a transplant.

[Dutchie]

Dutchie, sorry to see the result so far. It really breaks my heart. I hope you will be able to get to the bottom of why this happened and perhaps find a solution to fix it. We are all rooting for you and hope you will come back and inform us. At least you went to a reputable clinic so won't have to live the rest of your life with the what if question as far as clinics are concerned. Good luck mate!

Thanks. You guys (and girls) on this forum have been a tremendous support

 

Is there a list of conditions that might interfere with HTs. I would want to get a simple biopsy before I fork over 1000s for a transplant

I dont know, but one thing I do know for sure is I dont have any skin diseases or auto-immune disorders that might interfere with a transplant.

 

I just had a physical done last month and everything was in top shape except for my cholesterol which was a tiny bit too high. So now I'm taking garlic and guggulipid to see if I can bring it down somewhat

[palma13]

Thanks. You guys (and girls) on this forum have been a tremendous support

 

 

I dont know, but one thing I do know for sure is I dont have any skin diseases or auto-immune disorders that might interfere with a transplant.

 

I just had a physical done last month and everything was in top shape except for my cholesterol which was a tiny bit too high. So now I'm taking garlic and guggulipid to see if I can bring it down somewhat

 

With respect I don't think you can just eyeball all inflammatory conditions in a simple physical exam. Thats why people suggest biopsies and my guess is so will Dr Hasson.

 

Btw, if they perform corrective surgery or give you refund and then you start growing hair later because say you were just unlucky to see growth very late...will you come back and report and give the money back or pay for the 'corrective' surgery to H & W? Should be a two way street no?

[YouOnlyLiveOnce]

With respect I don't think you can just eyeball all inflammatory conditions in a simple physical exam. Thats why people suggest biopsies and my guess is so will Dr Hasson.

 

Btw, if they perform corrective surgery or give you refund and then you start growing hair later because say you were just unlucky to see growth very late...will you come back and report and give the money back or pay for the 'corrective' surgery to H & W? Should be a two way street no?

 

You can congratulate yourself, it's not often that I log in to make a reply.

 

'With respect', I gotta say, that is one of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while. First- you're thinking WAY too far ahead. The idea that his hair magically starts growing almost 2 years post op is complete non-sense. Secondly, assuming they repair him, please explain how he'd be able to differentiate between first and second transplant? Lastly, you really think dutchie cares about that money? Him sitting in limbo after have already given up a year of his life with the anticipation of a new mane is much harder than what some of you recognize. I'm willing to bet he'd pay an additional 17k to have a decent head of hair and to have this whole thing behind him.

[palma13]

You can congratulate yourself, it's not often that I log in to make a reply.

 

'With respect', I gotta say, that is one of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while. First- you're thinking WAY too far ahead. The idea that his hair magically starts growing almost 2 years post op is complete non-sense. Secondly, assuming they repair him, please explain how he'd be able to differentiate between first and second transplant? Lastly, you really think dutchie cares about that money? Him sitting in limbo after have already given up a year of his life with the anticipation of a new mane is much harder than what some of you recognize. I'm willing to bet he'd pay an additional 17k to have a decent head of hair and to have this whole thing behind him.

 

Sorry didn't mean to send you into labor with my post. I am glad you came out to reply because I love serving bowls of humility. Alright lets go. You think the repaired hair would grow back at the same time schedule as the original hair or magically just start growing at the exact same time as repaired transplant? Even with overlap I would expect two distinct periods of growth. This admittedly I am ignorant about but can you not figure out what density the grafts were placed with the first time and second time and then once ample time has gone you should be able to assess final hair density and if it is over 90% (randomly sampled areas) based on total grafts placed then we know all that needed was time and Dutchie's is a happy camper. If not then its a definitive failure. But what I actually meant was once you know you are going to have another shot at a transplant...you would have to wait a few more months. You've gone your whole life so far with a bald head...it won't kill you now? I am sure Dutchie's first priority would be to try to figure out what may have caused the failure, then rectify the financial investment and finally search for a new surgeon...who are going to have waitlists. No need to rush into a second HT and sacrifice the last of your donor hair. During all this enough time will have passed...I am not suggesting an eternal wait.

 

Who is talking about whether Dutchie cares/doesn't care about 17k? That didn't come up in my post because any reasonable adult...you know who earns an income and pays the bills does care about money. I didn't know DHT caused blindness to reality as well? So ya I am sure he would be willing to shell out the cash but this is not a practice we should encourage on this forum since there are members, including myself, who would not be able to make a second financial investment for an HT following a first failure.

 

Congratulate myself for what? A random dude on the internet decided to comment on my post. Nobody is impressed by whatever grandeur you are disillusioned by.

[mosd]

With respect I don't think you can just eyeball all inflammatory conditions in a simple physical exam. Thats why people suggest biopsies and my guess is so will Dr Hasson.

 

Btw, if they perform corrective surgery or give you refund and then you start growing hair later because say you were just unlucky to see growth very late...will you come back and report and give the money back or pay for the 'corrective' surgery to H & W? Should be a two way street no?

 

What do you mean by biopsies? Do you think that it didnt grow because of inflammatory under the skin?