Jump to content
partnerfue

faking the number of grafts?

Recommended Posts

Has asmed clinic not just developed a new system for graft counts using iPads etc ?? I just can't see dr erdogan risking everything for this kind of tactic ? It's been an ongoing puzzle for me to try and work out how or why asmed put so many grafts in and I'm starting to think it's purely because they have the skills and experience to do so ! Now whether or not it is ethical on some of there younger non medicated guys is a totally different question !

 

I for one hope and don't think it is dr erdogan but will wait to hear back from the O.P before I book my first procedure

 

My own personal narrowed down options

 

Option 1 :

Dr Lorenzo 2500 fue

 

Option 2 :

Asmed 4400

 

Where would you go ???? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The number Dr. Erdogan recommends isn't necessarily what you'll be receiving. You'll have an in house consultation the day before your surgery where he'll go over expectations, your hair characteristics, depth of hair loss and donor quality and come up with a game plan. It's a pretty thorough process. In my opinion the amenities his clinic provides is overkill, but in a positive way.

 

Also, I really doubt he's being dishonest with graft count. He could easily raise his price if was trying to make extra money.

 

He does shoot a little high on graft count, but I think its because he's looking for home runs every time. I had a surgery with Dr. Hasson and I always felt "damn, if he was a little more aggressive, I would be happy with my hairline forever'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless you have an in person consultations with the clinics, those numbers mean nothing. It is very difficult the assess all the characteristics of your hair loss with online photos. If you know what kind of transplant you want just do the math on your own by multiplying number of grafts with the cm2 of the area.

 

Asmed tries to achieve at least 50 graft/cm2 ratio, to do that they may be implanting 55-60 grafts per cm2. hence more graft estimations. This is what I got from my consultation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole thread raises an interesting question.

 

I'm still very new to the HT world, but it seems that there aren't any checks and balances in place to verify the number of grafts vs what was actually billed. Am I safe in assuming that?

 

I imagine to the trained eye (including many of the senior folks on this forum) would be able to garner rough guesses based on pictures, but beyond that, are there any other verification methods?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And then partner fue dissapears , seems like her partner is either now happy or it was an intentional smear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As my pal Scooby Doo would say:

PartnerFue... where are you??????!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was not an intentional smear. I wanted to give it nearly a year. I would say the quality of work is good (not great) but that is very different from graft number discrepancy. I am still convinced the graft count was not accurate. Hopefully my husband will not have to return for any repeat procedures but i would consider looking elsewhere if he does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What evidence exactly would you like? All I was suggesting is that people be vigilant about "dense" packing.

 

If it were merely a smear campaign then the surgeon would have been named in my initial post.

 

I was trying to understand the process and to see if anyone had any similar experiences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The number Dr. Erdogan recommends isn't necessarily what you'll be receiving. You'll have an in house consultation the day before your surgery where he'll go over expectations, your hair characteristics, depth of hair loss and donor quality and come up with a game plan. It's a pretty thorough process. In my opinion the amenities his clinic provides is overkill, but in a positive way.

 

Also, I really doubt he's being dishonest with graft count. He could easily raise his price if was trying to make extra money.

 

He does shoot a little high on graft count, but I think its because he's looking for home runs every time. I had a surgery with Dr. Hasson and I always felt "damn, if he was a little more aggressive, I would be happy with my hairline forever'

 

Unfortunately they apparently do not budge once the initial graft estimate has been made and sent by e-mail, even when I told them how much my anticipated remaining donor was, they still persisted with an estimate that was over my stated donor supply (with the acknowledged caveat that actual donor inspection was required as stated above).

 

For others who have gone with them, if you end up having less grafts than their initial estimate, do they still try to make you pay for the higher graft amount?

 

If it's their way of ensuring a "minimum surgery charge" then I can somewhat understand. Otherwise I'm not ever going with them, as I don't want to end up paying for more grafts than needed and or being talked into a surgery approaching over-harvesting.


go dense or go home

 

Unbiased advice and opinions based on 25 plus years of researching and actual experience with hair loss, hair restoration via both FUT & FUE, SMP, scalp issues including scalp eczema & seborrheic dermatitis and many others

 

HSRP10's favorite FUT surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr Hasson, Dr. Rahal

HSRP10's favorite FUE surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr. Bisanga, Dr. Erdogan, Dr. Couto

(*indicates actual experience with doctor)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What evidence exactly would you like? All I was suggesting is that people be vigilant about "dense" packing.

 

If it were merely a smear campaign then the surgeon would have been named in my initial post.

 

I was trying to understand the process and to see if anyone had any similar experiences.

 

Pictures are usually sufficient

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unfortunately they apparently do not budge once the initial graft estimate has been made and sent by e-mail, even when I told them how much my anticipated remaining donor was, they still persisted with an estimate that was over my stated donor supply (with the acknowledged caveat that actual donor inspection was required as stated above).

 

For others who have gone with them, if you end up having less grafts than their initial estimate, do they still try to make you pay for the higher graft amount?

 

If it's their way of ensuring a "minimum surgery charge" then I can somewhat understand. Otherwise I'm not ever going with them, as I don't want to end up paying for more grafts than needed and or being talked into a surgery approaching over-harvesting.

 

I was origionally quoted the usual 4500 but when I went for live consultation the numbers actually dropped , I'm currently emailing to see if I can drop the numbers even further and it's looking very promising , despite what a lot of people think Asmed are very cooperative with patients plans and don't just blast 5000 grafts into everybody , the only real way to get definite numbers is to have a live consultation pictures only give an idea of hairloss patterns they don't allow for caliber or donor density etc .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because asmed is stating they will drop the count it doesn't mean they won't be inaccurate with the graft count.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was origionally quoted the usual 4500 but when I went for live consultation the numbers actually dropped , I'm currently emailing to see if I can drop the numbers even further and it's looking very promising , despite what a lot of people think Asmed are very cooperative with patients plans and don't just blast 5000 grafts into everybody , the only real way to get definite numbers is to have a live consultation pictures only give an idea of hairloss patterns they don't allow for caliber or donor density etc .

 

Yeah but my real question is are they going to try to make patients pay for the initial graft count, even if the actual grafts received is lower?

 

The emails I had say the "price won't change" even if fewer grafts are used, and I tried to get exact clarification if they were talking about the rate per graft and if the price of the surgery would be less, to which they said repeatedly the price would not change.

 

I like their aggressive approach (I need some minor work on my lower temple points which I hope to close aggressively) but honestly with everything going on in Turkey and that area, I was looking at them because I thought they were "affordable." But I'm not going with them if they are inflating the graft count and ultimately the price as well.


go dense or go home

 

Unbiased advice and opinions based on 25 plus years of researching and actual experience with hair loss, hair restoration via both FUT & FUE, SMP, scalp issues including scalp eczema & seborrheic dermatitis and many others

 

HSRP10's favorite FUT surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr Hasson, Dr. Rahal

HSRP10's favorite FUE surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr. Bisanga, Dr. Erdogan, Dr. Couto

(*indicates actual experience with doctor)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just because asmed is stating they will drop the count it doesn't mean they won't be inaccurate with the graft count.[/quote

 

Do you have post op pictures ?? If you could post a picture of post op it will surely be easy to see the difference between 3000 grafts you paid for and the 1500 you claimed your husband received ? Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unfortunately they apparently do not budge once the initial graft estimate has been made and sent by e-mail, even when I told them how much my anticipated remaining donor was, they still persisted with an estimate that was over my stated donor supply (with the acknowledged caveat that actual donor inspection was required as stated above).

 

For others who have gone with them, if you end up having less grafts than their initial estimate, do they still try to make you pay for the higher graft amount?

 

If it's their way of ensuring a "minimum surgery charge" then I can somewhat understand. Otherwise I'm not ever going with them, as I don't want to end up paying for more grafts than needed and or being talked into a surgery approaching over-harvesting.

 

Damn this is disappointing to read. I really want to go to ASMED but I can't be dropping half my donor supply on my hairline. Erdogan always uses more than any other clinic I've seen. His hairline work is so good though. I wanted to hear that they would be willing to compromise on graft count, I'm thinking sensibly and planning for future loss/procedures but I guess they need huge graft counts for that dense-packed hairline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zim , go for a live consultation next time Asmed are in London I think you will be surprised how flexible they can be .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't discount Asmed based on this discussion alone. For a start although the OP heavily implies that it is Dr Erdogan we still haven't had confirmation from her.

 

I was booked in initially for FUE with H&W but changed to Asmed after doing more research and utilising this forum regularly. They did quote 500 grafts more than H&W quoted but I do believe they are more aggressive in their approach and accepted this.

 

Every case that I have reviewed and followed thus far on Asmed has been exceptional and I would base your opinion on this fact. My surgery isn't until next month but what I can tell you is that the service that I have received so far from the staff there has been second to none.

 

I have also seen photos of their patented graft calculator which counts your grafts as they are extracted and you can watch this live on the TV monitor during the surgery. Why do this if they were misleading people?


First Transplant: 5000 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, December 2016

 

First Hair Transplant link: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185564-5000-grafts-fue-13th-14th-december-asmed-dr-erdogan.html

 

 

Hair loss regime

 

Propecia 1mg daily

Saw Palmetto 450mg daily

Biotin 1000ug daily

MSM 1500mg daily

Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000mg daily

1% Nizoral shampoo weekly

Lasercomb x 3 weekly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I will now confirm i was referring to asmed. Note that just because there may be discrepancies in graft count, it doesn't change the fact that he produces good results. The two issues are separate. My husband was not able to watch the extraction/counting process. I wasn't in the room with him but apparently he was only given the option to watch movies.

 

As for photos, we only have the professional photos taken by asmed, which were enlarged and used to count using a pixel counter, as well as a dermatology grade magnifying glass on the actual scalp. He prefers i not post the asmed photos (maybe he's overthinking it) since if asmed really wanted to go through the photos, they could identify him and refuse any future service. We will likely use a different surgeon but he wants to keep the option open. Obviously i will respect his privacy. This surgeon provides good results but we are not yet convinced they are superior to some comparable surgeons that quote lower graft counts. Would you go wrong cosmetically by going to asmed? most likely not. Are you going to pay more for arguably the same quality work as some of the other top surgeons? most likely yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, I will now confirm i was referring to asmed. Note that just because there may be discrepancies in graft count, it doesn't change the fact that he produces good results. The two issues are separate. My husband was not able to watch the extraction/counting process. I wasn't in the room with him but apparently he was only given the option to watch movies.

 

As for photos, we only have the professional photos taken by asmed, which were enlarged and used to count using a pixel counter, as well as a dermatology grade magnifying glass on the actual scalp. He prefers i not post the asmed photos (maybe he's overthinking it) since if asmed really wanted to go through the photos, they could identify him and refuse any future service. We will likely use a different surgeon but he wants to keep the option open. Obviously i will respect his privacy. This surgeon provides good results but we are not yet convinced they are superior to some comparable surgeons that quote lower graft counts. Would you go wrong cosmetically by going to asmed? most likely not. Are you going to pay more for arguably the same quality work as some of the other top surgeons? most likely yes.

 

 

I personally think it is really unfair to post something like this without providing photo evidence as it makes readers (including myself) anxious about upcoming procedures.

 

You aren't necessarily going to pay more as the charge per graft is lower than many other comparable surgeons.

 

The fact your husband wants to keep his option open and potentially still consider Dr Erdogan again can only mean he is happy with the outcome.


First Transplant: 5000 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, December 2016

 

First Hair Transplant link: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185564-5000-grafts-fue-13th-14th-december-asmed-dr-erdogan.html

 

 

Hair loss regime

 

Propecia 1mg daily

Saw Palmetto 450mg daily

Biotin 1000ug daily

MSM 1500mg daily

Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000mg daily

1% Nizoral shampoo weekly

Lasercomb x 3 weekly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, I will now confirm i was referring to asmed. Note that just because there may be discrepancies in graft count, it doesn't change the fact that he produces good results. The two issues are separate. My husband was not able to watch the extraction/counting process. I wasn't in the room with him but apparently he was only given the option to watch movies.

 

As for photos, we only have the professional photos taken by asmed, which were enlarged and used to count using a pixel counter, as well as a dermatology grade magnifying glass on the actual scalp. He prefers i not post the asmed photos (maybe he's overthinking it) since if asmed really wanted to go through the photos, they could identify him and refuse any future service. We will likely use a different surgeon but he wants to keep the option open. Obviously i will respect his privacy. This surgeon provides good results but we are not yet convinced they are superior to some comparable surgeons that quote lower graft counts. Would you go wrong cosmetically by going to asmed? most likely not. Are you going to pay more for arguably the same quality work as some of the other top surgeons? most likely yes.

 

This is now just getting silly , you were allegedly ripped off to the tune of 4000 euros but would still potentially use the same doctor ! Surely you took your own personal pictures as your husbands progress developed especially if you thought you had been short changed ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't discount Asmed based on this discussion alone.

 

I don't think anyone is trying to discount them at all, conversely most of us are giving them the benefit of the doubt based on their solid reputation and recommended status here.

 

I just want to know what is going on with their graft estimate process and how it relates to the final pricing.


go dense or go home

 

Unbiased advice and opinions based on 25 plus years of researching and actual experience with hair loss, hair restoration via both FUT & FUE, SMP, scalp issues including scalp eczema & seborrheic dermatitis and many others

 

HSRP10's favorite FUT surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr Hasson, Dr. Rahal

HSRP10's favorite FUE surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr. Bisanga, Dr. Erdogan, Dr. Couto

(*indicates actual experience with doctor)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think anyone is trying to discount them at all, conversely most of us are giving them the benefit of the doubt based on their solid reputation and recommended status here.

 

I just want to know what is going on with their graft estimate process and how it relates to the final pricing.

 

I agree. I don't question the quality of their results. I just don't understand why they use so many more grafts for the same result. Its all very well saying its cheaper, but donor hair is a more valuable resource than money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×