Did Dr Hakan Doganay use fake accounts for publicity?Read this and decide it yourself

[Melvin- Admin]

I guess my question to you bill is would you trust Dr. Doganay to do your transplant? I sure wouldn't.

[Sean]

Guys,

 

Below is the explanation they provided for each of the patients Paleo referenced. I can't provide the additional photos they sent for confidentiality reasons however, I can provide the explanations and the links they provided to our forum. Below is an exact copy/paste with some minor edits for formatting.

 

Patients

 

There are some cases posted by Mr. Paleocapa89, and the reasons of these results are below:

 

Mickeydw:

 

Badly looking right side (implanted by tech), transplanted hair fell out later

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...ia-turkey.html

 

The patient was really happy till his 21 months but after that he stopped using Propecia (if we remember correctly, he posted this on the forum) and his original hair felt off. As you know, the full result from an operation can be seen around 12 months (and hair get ticker until around 18 months). If the result is as expected, this means that the clinic did a good job. The patient was happy until 21 months, but after 21 months his hair started getting weaker (based on the pictures he posted). As you know, transplanted hair has cycle of growth and sometimes they might look weaker. We, even, offered a free touch up for this case. Then, after complaining on the forum, the patient stated in his post that "Some Money back would be nice, not sure if I've followed a case were the doc is actually wiling to do this!"

 

Jugendlich:

 

poor growth, badly looking right side (implanted by tech)

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174373-fue-1500-grafts-04-aug-2014-dr-hakan-doganay.html

 

This poor patient had very good growth till his 6th months then he got ringworm infection at 7th months. Here is his statement "I found out that i was having scalp ringworm infection (tinea capitis) which resulted as shedding 7 months post op". We asked him to come again for FREE surgery even though his infection is nothing to do with us.

 

BluEMoOn: poor growth, patent later disappeared

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/180476-look-worse-6-months-post-op-then-pre-op.html

 

This patient was happy with his results we asked to update us, he also stated in the forum that his is happy:

 

"Update 29.09.15

 

I am now 7 months and one week post op and I am sooooo happy with my result, knowing I have some months left of growth. I hereby want to say sorry to Dr Hakan for doubting his skills hehe...

 

Will post pictures when I reach 8 months."

 

gimmefiction: satisfied overall, but the left side looks weaker (implanted by tech)

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/179332-dr-hakan-doganay-2800-fue-26-y-o-november-2013-a.html

 

Satisfied overall

 

Buzz2:

 

poor growth, very bad donor scarring

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174668-what-point-do-you-call-failure.html

 

This patient had 3 surgeries before and complained about his scar but in reality he had scars from his first 3 surgeries. Here is his "before" picture of his donor area he emailed us before the operation. You can also see "after 10 months" donor area picture. You can compare the before/after pictures. These pictures show that his donor area was not scarred because of the operation in our clinic. We also told this to the patient several times, and sent these pictures to him. The patient kept complaining, Then we sent full refund for his surgery.(He sounded scars from first 3 surgeries like our fault)

 

Note: (He had surgery around Oct 2013 please check the date stamped in the before picture)

 

William1:

 

poor growths, grafts possibly wasted?

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177789-dr-doganay-2050-grafts-3500-strands-hair.html

 

We tell patients that sexual activities in the first week would damage the transplanted hairs. This patient had sex or masturbated on the surgery date and grafts popped up and did not growth back since grafts live around 6 hours at most outside of body. The day after the surgery date he gave this information to us.

 

levi12:

 

poor growth

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174171-4025-grafts-fue-dr-hakan-doganay-july-2013-a.html

 

This patient complained about his growth. However, to be honest, is this result look bad for 6 months? (He got refund)

 

srdonjuan

 

weak growth, weak right side (implanted by tech)

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171811-dr-hakan-doganay-3600-graphs-fue.html

 

This patient poured gasoline to his head by mistake around 2-3 days after the surgery. his 7 months results do not look as weak as Mr. Paleocapa89 claimed.

 

TOharbourfront:

 

poor growth on left side (implanted by tech)

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/180710-dr-doganay-not-responding.html

 

This patient complained about bad results but neither sent us photos nor he shared on the forum after 4 months.

As we mentioned on the forum, giving 100% guarantee for an operation is not possible (as any clinic can't give). But we give a guarantee to our patients that we monitor, support, try to do our best for them, and stand behind our work. There are also few results among his shared links, and these results are not as expected. We kept in touch with these patients and supported them, offered free touch up. Saying those above results we explained are also bad results is not fair at all. So, he shared 15 links 9 out of them are not weak or our fault. Also as we explained on the forum, he collected these results from 2013 and 2014. Compared to the number of operations we did in these years, the results posted by him is a small fraction. But, we do not underestimate any result. Keeping in touch with these patients, supporting them, giving refund. etc. show that we really care our patients.

 

From 2015 we only got his complaint in 4 months about his so-called results and another guy who had hygiene problem in his 2nd months and got infected. Currently he is in 7th months. So, from 2015, we have only 2 complains including him. So, calling our clinic as a clinic producing bad results constantly is not fair. We do not prefer to respond publicly for above explained patients because we do not want to argue with patients and there is confidentiality, like the guy who had sex or masturbated on the surgery day. However, you know well that patients are not always right about what they claim due to their expectation or even there are very bad people, in terms of personality, use forum to get refund.

 

We have seen a patient who kept asking refund. Then his two friends came to our clinic after seeing his result, and these friends told us that the patient's result was good and this was the reason why they came to our clinic for HT. We admit that we made a mistake by giving refunds easily since this motivated people to abuse our generosity.

 

 

 

I think any doctor that is operating like a mill and is not personalizing their procedures for their patient on the day of the procedure should have no assigned recommendation verbage by any entity.

 

Some docs websites and marketing campaigns are misleading and deceptive. Docs need to be clearcut.

 

There are a few other entity recommended docs that may not follow a proper surgical protocol and do more than one restoration a day by popping in and out if multiple operating rooms. Some docs have their techs do surgical aspects of surgery such as extracting from the donor for FUE.

 

The one who pays is the patient. Entities that are paid to represent and market these docs across the web should do whatever it takes to protect a patient from surgical harm, marketing fraud, deceptive practices and etc. This is especially, if such entities endorse and invoke trust toward their customer/doctor to people domestic and international.

 

Communications/marketing has a wide array of rules and regs that most businesses must review and adhere to. Most documentation is readily available at the FTC sites across the web. Doctors should be transparent and make sure they understand the reprecussions of fraud and deceit and harm. Their are organizations that are possibly monitoring some of you.

 

Doctors should disconnect from online presences, work to fox their mistakes, and come back online later once that is done, if they want to repair their image. Right now, there are tons of folks on this forum and other forums that are now questioning this doctor's practices.

 

Also, patient confidentiality should be priority. I just read someone whose result wasnt good from Dr Doganay and the clinic said the reason was he masterbated or had sex. That right there should be just the one thing that should get the doctor banned from this forum, but that isnt the case. This is the type of stuff that contradicts regulations.

[leftygolfer71]

i guess my question to you bill is would you trust dr. Doganay to do your transplant? I sure wouldn't.

 

bingo!

[Stig]

This patient had sex or masturbated on the surgery date and grafts popped up and did not growth back since grafts live around 6 hours at most outside of body.

This patient poured gasoline to his head by mistake around 2-3 days after the surgery. .

 

So the doctor's excuse is that one patient masturbated and the other poured gasoline over his own head? Really? Does anyone actually believe that, or am I just losing my mind? Bill, surely you know better - he poured gasoline over his own head!

 

It kinda reminds me when I was in grade school, and the dog ate my homework.

[Petchski]

"We tell patients that sexual activities in the first week would damage the transplanted hairs. This patient had sex or masturbated on the surgery date and grafts popped up and did not growth back since grafts live around 6 hours at most outside of body. The day after the surgery date he gave this information to us."

 

lol first time hearing that, - and he told you that, 'oh i was beating the monkey and felt my grafts push out my scalp after an intense ejaculation, what do i do doc?'

 

The patient has not been identified so it's not a breach of confidentiality, but it does all sound a bit neat and tidy way of dismissing bad results.

 

I've also never known a clinic be so liberal with refunds...

[paleocapa89]

Paleo is one patient with one experience and it's obvious that he'd like to see Dr. Doganay removed from this site, all because he's not happy. But this community isn't about making everybody happy. It's about doing the right thing and what's in the best interest of patients.

 

I never explicitly asked you to remove him. I highlighted a number of things about the clinic that in my opinion makes them a bad choice for anyone to put one's trust in them. I wanted to educate other people, from now on it is up to them to decide whether they chose this clinic or not. I basically did what this site should do to educate and protect the prospective patients. And yet you state that I am just one patient with one experience and it's obvious that I'd like to see Dr. Doganay removed from this site, all because I am not happy.

 

No, I only asked you to look into those things that were discovered, accept them or disprove them and make a decision that is in the best interest of the prospective patients.

 

These were the things that were discovered:

- usage of fake accounts to praise the doc's work and recommend him

- usage of shady tactics on another forum and getting banned from there

- usage of techs in the operation long before it was publicly admitted. Deceptive information on the doctor's involvement

- knocking out patients in the past, and when they woke up they found that the techs were operating on them, meaning they were making incisions and implantation with the choi pen. Those patients thought - rightfully - that their operation would be done 100% by the doc, this was in 2014!

- the insufficient and rushed pre-op evaluation and patient information. No donor capacity assessment, no miniaturization check, no master plan. Nothing.

- rotating techs doing all the extraction and part of the IMPLANTATION which in this case - due to the usage of the implanter pen - means they are making INCISIONS as well. The techs are basically conducting hair transplant operation. Were the techs prescreened as well?

- the numerous cases of overharvestation, poor growth and misangled grafts.

 

One thing I don't accept is the creation of uncertainty and the belittlement of the claims. By the way, I wonder whether these patients were told after the gasoline or the sex incident that they will have a poor result, or these explanations -if they are in fact true- came in handy after they got poor results.

 

But this community isn't about making everybody happy. It's about doing the right thing and what's in the best interest of patients

 

At the end of the day, the prospective patients can chose from a ton of other recommended doctors, so it would not be a loss for them to have one less option to chose from. So whose best interest is it to keep a questionable doctor recommended?

Edited November 27, 2015 by paleocapa89

[Melvin- Admin]

I have to agre with paleo, not to mention the worst case of all xkos48, who's left with 10% (being generous) growth after over 6,000 grafts, I see the clinic gave no explanation for that case. After so many grafts what is a patient left to do the donor source has been depleted. After such a catastrophic case, and a string of recent bad cases excuses and putting blame on the patient is unacceptable. Especially the case in which the patient stopped taking finasteride, the implanted hair was moved to an area that was completely void of any hair, so the only explanation for the hair thinning after 21 months is that it was taken outside of the safe zone.

[esrec]

Bill,

 

I respect the difficulty of your job here, you're in a no-win situation. That simple. If you act too harshly you basically shut down Dr. D on this forum forever. All of the patients that've posted results (good or bad) will have some form of regret over their decision. If you're too cavalier, you jeopardize not only your credibility but of this board.

 

Here's where I take issue: you said that "9 of the 15 cases shared by Paleo were not poor or weak results". You realize you're then condoning if not endorsing a doctor who produces a 60% success rate. Would you go to a heart surgeon that was successful 60% of the tiime? How about a bank that protected 60% of your money? Or maybe a car whose brakes worked 60% of the time.

 

Our standards MUST be better than this. How can we push for excellence and better quality control while sending the message that its ok for a doctor to make his patients happy just over half the time. The only acceptable thing to do is put this doctor on probabtion in big bold letters. The problem will then resolve itself.

Edited November 27, 2015 by esrec

[leftygolfer71]

I have a question that hopefully someone can answer? I'm not trying to be difficult, but this all comes down to the all mighty dollar correct? Who gets paid by these Dr'.s to be on this this website?

 

The way I see it, if anyone in their right mind uses this Dr. he is playing Russian roulette.

Edited November 28, 2015 by leftygolfer71

[ZeoRanger]

Bill, I really appreciate that you've been posting some of the explanations for poor growth. But if you accept these reasons as legitimate causes for sub par results, this site needs to do a MUCH better job communicating these so prospective patients are prepared for post-op recovery.

 

The "sex post-up/graft popping" thing was raised recently but then dismissed as a joke.

 

Every clinic has quite different post op instructions, maybe there should be an ultimate post op guide complied by this site that covers all risks. Patients could rely on that one and their clinics's guides for a best practice approach.

 

I still find it very hard to believe that this one patient came so hard that his grafts literally popped up! Or the patient actually admitting that!

 

Physical damage (eg trauma) by a sex partner is another matter.

[vanseb]

Those so called excuses by the Doctor are absolutely, positively laughable. How Bill or anyone with a shred of intelligence could think that is sufficient to answer for a track record of deceptive practices and clear false advertising is astounding.

 

Many poster have said the boards reputation would be sullen depending on how this situation is handled. I think it's already been negatively affected and once again the patients best interests seem to be loosing out.

 

Very disappointing.

[mav23100gunther]

So the doctor's excuse is that one patient masturbated and the other poured gasoline over his own head? Really? Does anyone actually believe that, or am I just losing my mind? Bill, surely you know better - he poured gasoline over his own head!

 

It kinda reminds me when I was in grade school, and the dog ate my homework.

 

Spot on Stig! How does one pour gasoline on ones head by mistake only days after a transplant?

 

Regarding the masturbated or had sex - why doesn't the doctor know which one? Was it sex or was it just masterbating? I think that makes a difference as he could have bumped his head during sex or had his lady touch the grafts by mistake, whereas I would imagine masterbating is less risky. Wouldn't this detail be important for the doctor to know? I think the fact that he doesn't know whch one it was shows that the explanation is complete bullshit.

[mav23100gunther]

Guys,

 

It's easy for new posters to come out of the wordwork and criticize me, this community and the work we do. However, for those who actually take the time to research, they can see that we have a long history of standing up for patients and recommending only those surgeons who continually meet our standards.

 

The case with Dr. Doganay isn't cut and dry. We are trying to be as thorough as possible before making a final decision. Just because I'm not making publicly every conversation I have with the clinic, it doesn't mean that we aren't working on investigating things and being thorough.

 

Paleo is one patient with one experience and it's obvious that he'd like to see Dr. Doganay removed from this site, all because he's not happy. But this community isn't about making everybody happy. It's about doing the right thing and what's in the best interest of patients. Dr. Doganay did provide explanations for each of the patient cases Paleo referenced and frankly, I found their responses satisfactory. Does that mean that they don't have cases of poor growth? Absolutely not. But they do stand behind their patients and every clinic has cases of poor growth and complications.

 

Did Dr. Doganay and his clinic create fake accounts? I don't know. However, other clinics have done this in the past. The first time it happens, we provide the clinic with a warning. If it happens again, we suspend the clinic's posting privileges and possibly even discontinue their recommendation. That said, the clinic has been warned that if they were responsible for this kind of covert activity that they must cease and desist. If we see evidence that this is still happening, we will take further action.

 

Thus, the main issue at this point is regarding the patient cases of poor growth and the physician's involvement in the procedure. Dr. Doganay did respond saying that he promises he will become more involved in the procedure in order to continue his recommendation. This should eliminate any quality control issues. However, I am still discussing with the clinic exactly what part of the procedure Dr. Doganay will be doing and what his technicians will be doing. There is still some ambiguity and I am trying to resolve this with the clinic. They are a bit slow to respond at times because they are busy. But they do appear to be trying to work with the community in order to resolve concerns.

 

Because Dr. Doganay is working with the community in order to try to resolve concerns, I think we should give him a chance to do this. After all, he does have a long track record of producing outstanding results at his clinic and the ones that resulted in poor growth or complications, I've seen reasonable explanations for. I will be providing what I can in the next post.

 

Once I do, I'd like the community to provide their candid input on whether or not they think we should give Dr. Doganay another chance to prove themselves or discontinue their recommendation. Because they appear to be trying to work with the community, I'm inclined to give them a chance. But I want to know what the community thinks as well.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

 

Bill, no disrespect, but you found the following explanations satisfactory?

 

1) he poured gasoline over his head by mistake

2) he either masterbated or had sex, but the doctor doesn't know which one?

 

Also regarding ambiguity - is Dr Doganay now going to make 100% of the incisions himself or not, and seeing it's the implementor pen, then that means 100% of graft placements? I would think the answer to this question is the most important before we can talk about second chances no?

[mav23100gunther]

Bill, is Doganay going to make 100% of the incisions himself or not?

[FUE2014]

Whether or not bill bans Dr D (which it appears he won't) the damage to Dr D's reputation has already been done. Things last forever on the internet. If anyone is sensible enough to do a search of him here , they will stumble across these threads and probably run a mile.

 

What may remain in question here is this website's (HRN) credibility. There are probably quite a few people who are thinking from this that HRN's annual subscription means more to them than patients' best interests. (not saying this is the case at all but this may be the perception)

[leftygolfer71]

Whether or not bill bans Dr D (which it appears he won't) the damage to Dr D's reputation has already been done. Things last forever on the internet. If anyone is sensible enough to do a search of him here , they will stumble across these threads and probably run a mile.

 

What may remain in question here is this website's (HRN) credibility. There are probably quite a few people who are thinking from this that HRN's annual subscription means more to them than patients' best interests. (not saying this is the case at all but this may be the perception)

 

I agree - I know I wouldn't see him. I know every Dr. Is different with different results,

But if he or she is recommended here than, I would expect above average results.

[ZeoRanger]

Bill, no disrespect, but you found the following explanations satisfactory?

 

1) he poured gasoline over his head by mistake

2) he either masterbated or had sex, but the doctor doesn't know which one?

 

 

I am quite disappointed that the moderators accept this as a reason for poor growth. Either because it's pretty laughable OR because this forum repeatedly failed to warn us of the implications of jerking off post op. Basically no post op guides warn patients about this. Let's be honest the likelihood that you masturbate when you're in the hotel room totally bored for days is HUGE. If this really is an issue I feel let down by this community big time. The theory is that your grafts will pop because of the blood flow when you ejaculate...

 

Re. the "gasoline story"... The guy had a drop of antifreeze on his head two weeks post op. I looked it up. So much for "your grafts are safe after 9 days". If the moderators accept this theory, this forum should reconsider the advise it preaches.

[Petchski]

I don't think actually masterbating is a problem, i've done it, and i'm doing it now while typing one handed. i'm currently day 6 post op, but i bashed one out on day 4 no problems, it's more the exertion of actual real sex post op, which involves more than a one armed tugging motion.

 

Most post op instructions say don't do any strenuous exercise and that covers sex.

 

Jerk it with piece of mind that you are not harming your grafts.

[paleocapa89]

Are you kidding me with this article, Bill?

 

http://www.regrowhair.com/hair-loss-blog/caution-dangers-of-unlicensed-technicians-performing-hair-transplant-surgery/

 

I really hope that this is a start to some measures to ensure quality and the safety of patients otherwise this is just a double-faced approach and communication that is so utterly revolting to me, I can't even describe it.

 

You can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

Edited December 8, 2015 by paleocapa89

[leftygolfer71]

i don't think actually masterbating is a problem, i've done it, and i'm doing it now while typing one handed. I'm currently day 6 post op, but i bashed one out on day 4 no problems, it's more the exertion of actual real sex post op, which involves more than a one armed tugging motion.

 

Most post op instructions say don't do any strenuous exercise and that covers sex.

 

Jerk it with piece of mind that you are not harming your grafts.

 

hahahaha!!!:d:d:d:d

[Bill - Seemiller]

Paleo,

 

I'm pretty much sick and tired of your ranting and bullying. The article talks about the dangers of "unlicensed" and "inexperienced" technicians. The issue with Dr. Doganay is not the same thing. That said, I've taken the concerns of the community seriously and have been investigating things. I'm still waiting to hear back from the clinic regarding Dr. Doganay's future involvement in procedures. However, I will not entertain your threats and bullying anymore. If you can't behave and speak to me or other members of this community respectfully, it's time for you to go.

 

Bill

[vanseb]

Paleo,

 

I'm pretty much sick and tired of your ranting and bullying. The article talks about the dangers of "unlicensed" and "inexperienced" technicians. The issue with Dr. Doganay is not the same thing. That said, I've taken the concerns of the community seriously and have been investigating things. I'm still waiting to hear back from the clinic regarding Dr. Doganay's future involvement in procedures. However, I will not entertain your threats and bullying anymore. If you can't behave and speak to me or other members of this community respectfully, it's time for you to go.

 

Bill

 

Sorry but this whole process has made the board and moderators come off extremely poorly. I think this sentiment has been echoed by dozens of posters and I think frankly many in the community see the opposite happening, in the fact the community concerns are not being adequately addressed.

 

I don't see any threats by Paleo and I for one am glad when posters speak the truth and don't get shutdown by over zealot moderation just because it may effect their bottom line. So far despite all the issues provided, I find the doctors communication most troubling. The fact you are still waiting for answers on the most basic of concepts speaks to that.

 

I for one hope posters like Paleo continue and are not silenced.

[newbie33]

Having long-ruled out Dr Doganay, I haven't followed all these threads very carefully. But it doesn't seem to me as if Paleo is bullying anyone (publicly, at least) - and plenty of members are less courteous than him. As for ranting, we none of us would be left if that was a membership disqualification.

 

I'm sure you are doing your best to contact and get answers from Dr Doganay, Bill. But the slowness and vagueness of his replies would suggest he isn't doing his best to quickly clarify the topic of who, in effect, is carrying out surgery. That should, rightly, cost him dearly.

 

Paleo, running with the hare and hunting with the hounds is a lovely phrase (and a good - probably unintended - pun!). I hope you end up with a decent result and that you are in a slightly better, calmer place a few months on from surgery.

 

And as a post script, if masturbation, rocking to and fro in the corner crying, or shaking a fist at the sky while shouting obscenities are 'strenuous' no-nos after a HT, it doesn't augur well for me.