FUT is more popular than FUE

[mav23100gunther]

If you believe either of them are saying these things for ethical reasons than God bless you, I on the other hand can see the blatant marketing of FUT in an attempt to sway laymans to the strip obviously for their financial interest.

 

As I've previously said before, FUE does not only rely on scalp hair for harvest, I posted a result from Dr. U he had harvested 5,500 follicular units from the head and 15,000 from the body, the result was a Norwood 6 becoming a Norwood 1, this is not possible through conventional FUT, FUE is not limited to just scalp hair like FUT, and I don't have to be a medical professional to be well versed in hair restoration, I've been researching hair loss for over 10 years since I started balding.

 

I encourage you to research the subject yourself, many of the things said have been gross exaggerations in regards to yield, again the single most important thing when having a procedure is finding a qualified doctor, sure you an go and have FUE by a FUT physician the yield will be poor because they are not FUE specialist, how many times do you see strip patients who have been butchered going to a FUE physician for repair, why not vice versa ever ask yourself this question, the only examples I have ever seen have been repairs from the 90's from the old black and decker FUE.

 

So again I say everyone weighs the pros and cons differently, what may be a big deal to me may not be a big deal to you. The risk of of having a butchered head is soooo much worse than being bald for me, so the con far outweighs the pro, again their have been no studies conducted to quantify how much more effective FUT is than FUE, every surgeon only tells you what they feel is the correct amount, so the percentages they are giving you have not been quantified. Again, I repeat physicians have monetary incentives and motives, you need to research things yourself, everything I have said was said to me by hair restoration physicians that perform both procedures I'm not just making this up. After one strip your scalp loses elasticity, so just stripping out like they have said may not even be an option for some individuals, have they mentioned this? No they are only talking best case scenarios which are not the case in most situations. If the scalp is not elastic guess what the wound will be difficult to close, and when the wound is stretched you can bet it's going to widen and become disfigured, on top of that the donor hair may be shock lossed permanently, they fail to mention this as well.

 

Couple of points:

 

Re marketing of FUT, I do not necessarily agree this is the case. Dr Feller charges a much higher price for FUE than FUT, and I believe the overhead on FUE procedures is lower. I could be wrong, but if a patient walks into Dr Feller's clinic asking for FUE, then the good Dr will walk away with more profit sticking to FUE than if he convinces the patient to switch to FUT. I'm a simple man with a simple mind, so what am I missing here?

 

Re the BHT comment, I am still not following you. You stated that the Dr harvested 5,500 grafts from FUE on the scalp and an additional 15,000 from the body. Why wouldn't the same person be able to get 5,500 grafts or more via FUT and the same 15,000 from the body? I'm not following you here, why does going with FUT rule out BHT. If he went with FUT first, then switched to FUE once stripped out, then he can still get the body hair no? In fact, wouldn't all the info we know point to that producing the best result over your scenario? I get your concern with the scar, I really do, but there is always the SMP or BHT into the scar option - just saying.

[Melvin- Admin]

Couple of points:

 

Re marketing of FUT, I do not necessarily agree this is the case. Dr Feller charges a much higher price for FUE than FUT, and I believe the overhead on FUE procedures is lower. I could be wrong, but if a patient walks into Dr Feller's clinic asking for FUE, then the good Dr will walk away with more profit sticking to FUE than if he convinces the patient to switch to FUT. I'm a simple man with a simple mind, so what am I missing here?

 

Re the BHT comment, I am still not following you. You stated that the Dr harvested 5,500 grafts from FUE on the scalp and an additional 15,000 from the body. Why wouldn't the same person be able to get 5,500 grafts or more via FUT and the same 15,000 from the body? I'm not following you here, why does going with FUT rule out BHT. If he went with FUT first, then switched to FUE once stripped out, then he can still get the body hair no? In fact, wouldn't all the info we know point to that producing the best result over your scenario? I get your concern with the scar, I really do, but there is always the SMP or BHT into the scar option - just saying.

 

I never said you can't do both, in simply comparing both procedure side by side, like I said if you are okay with a linear scar than by all means go with FUT, I am not pro-FUE or anti-FUT I'm pro patient decision, I don't agree when either sides bash each other because they both have their pros and cons. As I previously stated not everyone will weigh their pros and cons the same way smp fades and you have to keep getting touch ups, the only thing you can do about the scar is FUE and the yield is poor.

[1978matt]

FUT allows you to access about 95-98% of the best, safest donor strip follicles which then typically yield 98% most of the time. The same cannot be said of FUE, I mean imagine taking a donor strip out of a persons head, laying it on table and then using an FUE punch to break it down into follicular units. You're going to destroy hundreds of follicles. This is why scalpels and microscopes are used.

 

You don't have to have a medical degree to see that the FUE extraction is incredibly crude in comparison to strip dissection. It's so crude that they were even able to do it in Japan in the 1930s.

 

I don't have a problem with FUE as it's a good solution for some but it needs a wide, dense and stable donor zone making it only suitable for certain people. All the top doctors, even the one in Georgia who cant be mentioned, will screen their patients before offering it. He still does strip BTW.

 

The yield from these top end surgeons is usually pretty good but you never know at what cost to the donor area. It's interesting that those 4000+ FUE patients never post their results with a short back and sides. If they have to keep their hair at grade 3 or 4 then what was the point of getting FUE in the first place?! They may as well have got strip and have a potentially far denser result in the recipient area.

 

I fail to see what new advances there are on the horizon, unless ARTAS is going to have some kind of radar system that can detect which directions the follicles splay(?) Who knows, maybe they are working on it behind the scenes. Even if they still manage that they are still going to have keep ripping the follicles out of the scalp.

[Melvin- Admin]

And yet no posts by you of accusations against him or the doctor he represents of profiteering at the patient's expense. No lectures as to how the doctor should run his practice and treat his patients. And no mention as to how Sethicles himself as a representative of a doctor has only ever offered and advocated for a single procedure on this site. In fact he has been vociferously and disingenuously anti-FUT thus denying patients a choice.

 

Does this not offend your sense of how doctors should be advocating for their patients and offering choice?

 

I wasn't aware he was a physician advocate, Dr. Feller I did not mean to disrespect you, but when I read something that I think is wrong I voice my opinion and anyone on this forum is free to disagree with me, they are free to look up my profile, they are free to attack my results and wish that I bald to a Norwood 7, they are absolutely free to do all these things, I'm fine with it this is a public forum, and when you put yourself out there you leave yourself open, whether it be your opinion, results, or philosophy regarding hair restoration, my goal was not to offend you or Dr. Bloxham, my goal was to have two sides of the story, let the patients weigh the pros and cons and make an educated decision themselves that is it. Again I apologize if offended you or Dr. Bloxham that was not my intent, my aim is to help fellow hair loss sufferers.

[1978matt]

I wouldn't wish NW7 on anyone, I was just offering feedback since you told us we would not find a better 1800 graft case. Good or bad I'll say it as I see it.

 

If I were a doctor, which I'm not, I would have said do not have strip or FUE.

 

Why you would want to "rub salt in the wounds" is beyond me, I am a Norwood 6 the grafts were extracted with in the permanent zone above my nape, the physician was well aware of my permanent zone as he had asked me to grow my sides out for the procedure he measured my donor density for miniaturization as well, can the donor area thin, sure it could but it could also thin for FUT which would reveal a far more ugly scar. For 1,800 grafts at the level of baldness I have id beg to differ I think it was a good result, at the end of the day I'm the patient as long as I'm happy with my results that's all that matters, I don't t compare myself to others because there are different variables like donor density and hair characteristics that play a role in hair restoration. Furthermore, I already have a surgery scheduled to address the lateral jumps, and yes I will be using body hair for my crown. What you said can apply to anyone know one knows how far hairloss will progress the best we can do is measure donor density and try to slow down the process by medication. So the same applies to you too.

[Melvin- Admin]

I wouldn't wish NW7 on anyone, I was just offering feedback since you told us we would not find a better 1800 graft case. Good or bad I'll say it as I see it.

 

If I were a doctor, which I'm not, I would have said do not have strip or FUE.

 

I never said you wouldn't find a better result for 1,800 grafts I said my results were comparable to FUT results taking in to account level of baldness. I am well aware that my hair restoration may fail, in fact I researched hair restoration far before I decided to have the transplant. No surgery is fail proof, you're only 7 years older than me so you're also still pretty young the same could be said about you. In my opinion FUE was the only logical choice for me due to the fact that I would rather live with FUE scars than FUT scars, worst case scenario I could have smp and BHT to fill out the rest. I've explored every option should my transplant fail. I must say your feedback felt more like a personal attack, at the end of the day if you (the patient) is happy with the result that is all that matters, Even if this transplants only give me hair for 20 more years that 20 years is worth it to me, when you go bald at 30 there is nothing your wouldn't give just to have more hair even if it means balding again when you get older which is not for certain either I might add. I may stay Norwood 6 no one knows only time will tell?

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

Mav,

 

You're dead on. I've said it dozens of times, but it doesn't seem to resonate. We could cut our overhead costs in half (at least), charge 2-4x per graft, and make MUCH more money doing FUE. What's more, we have the patients to do it. So the economic argument for why anyone would advocate strip above FUE is bunk.

 

In general, I also must refer back to my old comments about BHT as well. It's not a realistic solution for the vast majority of patients. And it also has the potential to scar up very visible regions in the body (IE, the face). Please proceed very, very cautiously.

[Melvin- Admin]

One could argue though that FUE is far more labor intensive and tedious. The learning curve is much higher for FUE, in regards to BHT I've yet to see a bad a scarring case that's been documented , FUT's expanding and widening after multiple strips are far more prevalent for the reasons I've stated previously. As I said before its all about personal preference, I'd rather have tiny dot scars exposed than a linear scar, I'm able to buzz my head with the scars barely visible to the untrained eye, if my transplant were to fail I'd buzz my head, don't think I'd ever bic my head did it once didn't look good, but buzzing my head doesn't look too bad so long as you have the hairline to frame the face, again my posts are not meant to disrespect anyone, they only serve as a voice both sides for anyone reading. I believe in providing the pros and cons of both procedures and letting the patient decide, but no one was providing the cons to FUT which there are cons so I decided to do so myself.

[tommygun]

Sethicles reps an FUE doc??? Oh, how the turn tables! Seth, why has he not posted in these threads?

 

[TakingThePlunge]

Sethicles reps an FUE doc??? Oh, how the turn tables! Seth, why has he not posted in these threads?

 

 

As far as I am aware, Sethticles is not a paid representative of any clinic but I've messaged him about this for clarification. If someone has proof that this is the case, please notify me.

[Sethticles]

Sethicles reps an FUE doc??? Oh, how the turn tables! Seth, why has he not posted in these threads?]

 

Hi Tommy - nah Im not a rep at all, not being paid by anyone

[tommygun]

Thank you for the clarification Seth.

[Melvin- Admin]

Hi Tommy - nah Im not a rep at all, not being paid by anyone

 

I thought it was weird that you wouldn't have the physicians information on your profile why would anyone keep that a secret lol, it seems like the opposite of being an advocate thanks for the clarification Seth.

[California]

Dear HRN Members,

 

I have noticed several, well respected members of his Forum resorting to "assumptions" that Seth and Darlinglocks are representatives of Dr. Bhatti/Darling Buds India. I have mentioned this several times before and am doing this again......Seth and Darlinglocks are just extremely happy Patients of Dr. Bhatti and are not reps (paid or not paid) of the Clinic. As far as I know, they have no vested interest in pointing any Patients to Dr. Bhatti. They are advocating what they believe and doing their part in helping fellow HT Patients. Both of them live in free countries and have a right to free speech.

 

Best regards,

California

[Dr Tejinder Bhatti]

I have a question for you HTsoon. Do you think Sethicles has monetary incentives?

 

Dear Dr Feller,

I had enough respect for you earlier.

However, your posting your baseless rantings and esp. the one claiming that “Sethticles” is my paid representative left me with no choice but to write this mail:

What made you feel “Sethticles” and “Darlinglocks” are my paid representatives?

I think you owe me an apology.

[delancey]

Dr. Bhatti,

 

On average, what yield can one expect from your clinic via FUE?

[KO]

I work with a bunch of people who have had HTs, and none of them have highly visible scars, a few even Bic their heads completely. The key giveaway to an HT isn't the scar, but harsh pluggy growth on top surrounded by weak native hair. If you grow your hair out to even a normal length,if visible it looks like you were wearing a hat, with an associated line....hardly the scary,midis figuring scars people imagine. Pretty much the last thing you notice about a person is his lower occipital scalp.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Dear Dr Feller,

I had enough respect for you earlier.

However, your posting your baseless rantings and esp. the one claiming that “Sethticles” is my paid representative left me with no choice but to write this mail:

What made you feel “Sethticles” and “Darlinglocks” are my paid representatives?

I think you owe me an apology.

 

Dr Bhatti,

 

I think you owe me an apology for coming on to a public website and claiming that the topic I started in good faith, and one you chose not to participate in , is a "baseless rant". I will clarify the very minor point of your erroneous "representative issue" in a moment. But this is your very first post on this thread and you choose to attack me and my posts personally rather than to address the salient information.

 

First, I have no idea who Darlinglock's is. Never wrote he was a rep for you.

 

Second, I never said Sethicles was a paid representative. Read what I had written again.

But he does claim to represent you by invoking your name and commenting that he is your patient to support his vehement and often incorrect views of physiology and the FUE procedure. You have not bothered to counter or correct any of what he has written, though I see now you have been reading this topic.

 

You say Sethicles is not an official representative of you or your office. Good, thank you for coming on here to clear that up. But you may want to tell him that as his activity, to my mind, certainly says otherwise. He's acting as a representative for you whether you want him to or not. I can certainly see why you wouldn't want him to however.

 

Now that you are here, how about pointing out exactly where what I've been "ranting" about has been incorrect or false. This is a great opportunity for you to "set the record straight".

[Mick50]

I think most people on this site would understand the word 'representative' to mean to be working for a clinic or Dr in some official capacity

[Zenlife1]

All this public pissing does nothing except insult the intelligence of your potential clientele. Both procedures have pros and cons. It is dependent on the patients situation.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Feller,

 

I appreciate that you created this and several topics and your ongoing participation in both these topics and on our forum. However, many of your posts recently have come across as abrasive and insulting to many members, including other well respected physician members of our community. While you may not feel that FUE is a solid enough treatment to be offered as the only treatment, there are many who disagree with you. Likewise, many patients disagree as well.

 

The FUT vs FUE debate is a "hot topic" for a reason. People seem to have very strong opinions that often leads to members mudslinging and hurling insults at one another. Personally, I don't know why this is because in my opinion, both strip and FUE have merit and are both here to stay. Surgeons who have chosen to specialize strictly in FUE have chosen to do so because they firmly believe in the procedure and those we recommend on this community (which includes Dr. Bhatti) regularly achieve excellent results at their clinic.

 

While there is no way to know everything that goes on at every clinic, patients are welcome and encouraged to share their experiences and concerns on this forum. If FUE was a huge failure, I suspect there'd be many more patients coming online expressing this. The reality is however, FUE is here to stay and it is my opinion that the procedure and its tools have evolved and improved over the last several years. Are additional forces placed on the follicles during the harvesting process of FUE vs strip? Yes. However, whether physicians are beginning to overcome or work around them, in many cases, results from FUE are on par (or at least close) with that of strip.

 

Dr. Feller, I have a lot of respect for you and hope that you continue participating on this forum in a constructive way. But I ask that you be respectful to your physician colleagues also recommended by this community and treat forum members respectfully and as patients. Like the world at large, this community is full of dissenting opinions. I believe people can disagree and still discuss the hot topics respectfully without fighting. I ask you and all members of our community to work on this.

 

If in the future, you suspect someone in particular covertly representing a clinic (recommended here or not), please send me a private email and we will investigate this. We have investigated "Sethicles" and while he may speak boldly about Dr. Bhatti, I see no evidence that he is employed or represents him or the clinic in any way. Furthermore, I removed one of your posts that he is somehow "profiteering" for Dr. Bhatti as this is inappropriate.

 

Now, let's please get this topic back on track to being educational and not members fighting against one another. Or I will be forced to lock this and other topics where things are getting a bit too personal.

 

Thanks and best wishes,

 

Bill

[Dr Tejinder Bhatti]

Dr Bhatti,

 

I think you owe me an apology for coming on to a public website and claiming that the topic I started in good faith, and one you chose not to participate in , is a "baseless rant". I will clarify the very minor point of your erroneous "representative issue" in a moment. But this is your very first post on this thread and you choose to attack me and my posts personally rather than to address the salient information.

 

First, I have no idea who Darlinglock's is. Never wrote he was a rep for you.

 

Second, I never said Sethicles was a paid representative. Read what I had written again.

But he does claim to represent you by invoking your name and commenting that he is your patient to support his vehement and often incorrect views of physiology and the FUE procedure. You have not bothered to counter or correct any of what he has written, though I see now you have been reading this topic.

 

You say Sethicles is not an official representative of you or your office. Good, thank you for coming on here to clear that up. But you may want to tell him that as his activity, to my mind, certainly says otherwise. He's acting as a representative for you whether you want him to or not. I can certainly see why you wouldn't want him to however.

 

Now that you are here, how about pointing out exactly where what I've been "ranting" about has been incorrect or false. This is a great opportunity for you to "set the record straight".

 

Dear Dr Feller,

 

You do not wish to apologise- well I cannot force you to. You are an honorable Coalition member of this respected forum and seem to have greater rights to space on the forum by wanting me to apologise for being on your thread - I will!

I am not responsible for the views of a patient of mine (Sethticles) who wishes to speak for himself. Please respect the wishes of an individual. You reside in a free country and so does he. The very fact that he carries my reference on his signature does not qualify him to be termed a "shill".

As far as reading this thread is concerned, I was pointed out about your comments by some well wishers and therefore I am here. Believe me, I would not have otherwise I seldom have time to go through my own e-mails let alone stalk forum threads. Now that I am here I have read the threads, I find many remarks by you to be disgustingly disrespectful to the collective conscience of this respected forum- the world's #1.

Meet me on a fair thread and I shall surely put some of your misconceptions about the effectivity of FUE to rest. It does have shortcomings, but so has FUT!

Dr Feller, If FUT were so popular, you would be devoting more time to your practice. Or did you mean it was more popular in your practice!!

I would request Bill and Pat to close this thread and start a new one on the same topic under their entire supervision where we are not waylaid.

 

Best wishes.

[FUE2014]

Dr Feller has come across like a narcissistic bully in this thread willing to disparage anyone who disagrees with his views. The fact is doctor, you are not beyond reproach and neither is FUT

Edited August 5, 2015 by FUE2014

[KO]

People are justified in calling Sethticles a shill as he keeps promoting Bhatti in threads having nothing to do with him and when people are considering other doctors.

[Mick50]

Grea,t hopefully we can have an informed opinion on the merits and flaws of FUE on a different thread with Dr Bhatti and Dr Feller. Fair play to Dr Bhatti for getting involved this after all is what Dr Feller has been asking to happen for quite a while.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Mick50