FUT is more popular than FUE

[Mick50]

Hi Dr Bloxham just one question and this is a genuine question not a leading one, I've read all your recent posts regarding FUE. As a total layman,but someone who's had a transplant I have found this thread very interesting but what I can't understand is how Docs like

Lorenzo, Erdogan etc are getting great results not just the ones they show on their websites but actual patients posting on this forum, to my eyes the transplanted hair seems to be growing in a natural way with these guys, Ok maybe they would have achieved a better yield with FUT but the actual hair quality looks good in these cases

[Dr. Alan Feller]

These topics seem to always devolve away from the point.

 

The topic heading is that FUT is more popular than FUE.

 

This is now established and the falsehood of the reverse has been put to bed.

 

These topics also become falsely re framed into an FUE works or doesn't work scenario.

 

FUE works. That is why I perform it. But it doesn't work as well as FUT does. It also leaves more damage in the donor area. The larger the case, the more brute force is used to make it work. There has been no revolution in FUE since its inception.

 

These are immutable facts.

 

Yes, there are beautiful FUE results online. I have contributed to this myself and was among the first to do so. But for each and every FUE result you see, good or bad, the same result would have been better had FUT been performed instead. Absolutely no exceptions. That is also an immutable fact.

 

FUT is more popular because it works better for the most people.

 

If you want FUE because you desire a particular hair style then do so. But do so with the knowledge that you are using a procedure that does not work as well and produces far more scaring than FUT. Furthermore acknowledge that you will have fewer donor grafts in the future as a direct result of the FUE. Acknowledge all this and go and have your FUE. It's your head, not mine.

 

For my part. I'm in the business and know all the ins and outs. I wouldn't have FUE performed on me for free UNLESS I was stripped out and needed/wanted more hair. To my mind that is the best way to approach hair loss. Strip out, and then go for FUE. This is common sense.

[Melvin- Admin]

 

If you want FUE because you desire a particular hair style then do so. But do so with the knowledge that you are using a procedure that does not work as well and produces far more scaring than FUT. Furthermore acknowledge that you will have fewer donor grafts in the future as a direct result of the FUE. Acknowledge all this and go and have your FUE. It's your head, not mine.

 

For my part. I'm in the business and know all the ins and outs. I wouldn't have FUE performed on me for free UNLESS I was stripped out and needed/wanted more hair. To my mind that is the best way to approach hair loss. Strip out, and then go for FUE. This is common sense.

 

I have to respectfully say this:

 

It's post like these that will turn a potential patient away, when I go to a physician i'm not looking to be scolded for choosing a procedure that I feel best suits my needs, a patient doesn't have to acknowledge anything, they're choosing a procedure that they feel is best for them. What you feel is best is not what is going to be what every body feels is best, people weigh pro's and con's differently, having a big linear scar that has the possibility of stretching and growing is unacceptable to me, this would be worst than being bald in my opinion, so for me the con outweighs the pro. However, other's may not agree with me, therefore FUT may be appropriate for them. I will never put anyone down for choosing what they feel best suits them.

 

Let me give you a scenario, lets say I was a potential patient still unsure of what procedure I was going to choose, lets say I went to a FUE physician who told me

"Go and have your FUT it's your head not mine" I would never return to that physician again even if I chose FUE. There's a certain way to go about things and that's the wrong way. Educate patient's yes, advise patient's of why you feel one procedure is best over the other, but ultimately allow the patient to make the choice themselves and respect their choice.

 

The best way to go about things is to be a patient advocate, even if a patient chooses a procedure that is not within your specialty, you should still try and help the patient by recommending physicians that you feel would give them a good result with whatever procedure they choose rather it be FUE or FUT. It is never okay to tell a patient " It's your head not mine" or "I wouldn't get that procedure done if it were FREE" I've said it before and I'll say it again hair restoration is not a one size fits all. You never know a patient may return to you to get an FUT in the future, but if you put them down for choosing something they feel is best for them they won't return and that's less money for you just saying.

[FUE2014]

For my part. I'm in the business and know all the ins and outs. I wouldn't have FUE performed on me for free UNLESS I was stripped out and needed/wanted more hair.

 

Lol, surely you jest.

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

HT,

 

Again, thanks for posting.

 

But I wanted to share the following: remember that when you go to a doctor for a consultation or a procedure, you aren't choosing a procedure based on what you feel. Medicine and surgery are not retail businesses. You can't walk into a medical clinic and say: "I feel like I have a herniated spinal disc, and I choose to take oxycodone for it, please." The doctor would look at you like you had two heads!

 

He/she would rightfully tell you that based on their professional training, you have X diagnosis and you need Y treatment. Any doctor that didn't do this and let a patient get away with this isn't doing their job. And this is harmful to only one person: the patient. That's why the doc said "it's your scalp." Because the only people being harmed by misinformation or the misconception that you can order a HT procedure like a fast food item are the patients. And that's why we do come on here to act as true patient advocates.

 

We could cut about 50% of our overhead and make roughly 2-4x as much per procedure just blindly performing FUE on everyone who asked for it. But that's not our job and it's absolutely not the right way to do things. Do some people think it's the "wrong way," as you stated above? Of course. But you don't stop doing the right thing just because it's unpopular.

 

So, I ask you this: Say you walk into an emergency room with a complaint of chest pain. The cardiologist sees you, performs tests, and says: "you need bypass surgery." Would you tell him: "nope, I don't want that. Do cardiac stenting -- the less invasive option. And don't try to tell me the benefits of the procedure you recommended or you're not a patient advocate and you don't respect my choice."

 

Of course you wouldn't! And you would have no respect, nor should you, for a cardiologist who caved and said: "Ahh shucks. Okay, we'll do the other one."

 

Hopefully this analogy clears things up a bit. No need to go back and forth with this and detract from the thread, so I'll leave it at that. Again, very pleased you found a solution for your hair loss.

Edited August 4, 2015 by DrBlakeBloxham
spelling

[Dr. Alan Feller]

HTsoon,

This is not the first time of heard protests like this.

 

What you wrote would be valid if you were shopping for clothes, but not for a surgical procedure.

 

You are not a "customer", you are a patient. So many posters on here lose sight of that fact.

 

You can doctor shop and get what you want. Go ahead. Why should you care what I think?

 

Thanks for the practice and business tips.

[Sethticles]

for each and every FUE result you see, good or bad, the same result would have been better had FUT been performed instead. Absolutely no exceptions. That is also an immutable fact.

 

thats incorrect, FUE surgeons can hand pick by eye 3 or 4 follicle hair grafts, so 1000 FUE could equal the same as 2000 FUT harvest, that is also an immutable fact

[Yaz89]

HT,

 

First, I'm very pleased you were able to find a procedure that fit your needs.

 

However, you say we need to let patients make up their minds. I ask, how do they do this? They need to be given the facts. Plain and simple. If we don't have these very important conversations -- which you're a part of, patients won't be able to make the right decisions. Like I've said before, telling the truth isn't always popular or sexy. But it needs to be out there.

 

Having said that, let me address your points:

 

1) Your challenge is to find a roughly 1,800 graft strip case on a diffuse NW 4a to 5 patient that rivals your results. I timed myself. I spent 1 minute and 30 seconds reviewing the "results posted by physicians" category of the site and came up with the following:

 

Patient with a similar pattern; 2,000 grafts (very close to yours); done via strip:

 

 

 

 

 

All credit goes to the very talented Dr Scott Alexander for that one.

 

2) Your point about people noticing your friend's scar. Here's the problem with this answer. You say you have 1 friend who had strip and now has an issue with the scar. Your "sample size" is 1. I had a patient in today who had 2 previous strip procedures with a chain clinic, scarred poorly, still cuts his hair the exact same way he always has, and has never had one issue, comment, or problem with the scar. He's not happy with the growth in the front, but has never even thought about the scar. Now my sample size is 1 as well, and our arguments have the same validity. What if I told you that I see that same patient in the OR and consultation room 10 times a week? See why my opinion of the gravity of the scar may be a bit different?

 

3) Your donor. Yes, your scars -- though still visible -- are cosmetically acceptable on the surface. But imagine taking all those little dots you see on the surface, multiplying it by two, and pushing this network of scar under your skin. This is what your scalp is like now post-FUE. What would happen if your results didn't grow as planned? Now we have to go in and try to steal another 1,800. But now the grafts are ripping, transection is increasing because we aren't getting the right tissue feedback, and you're absolutely not going to get another 1,800 growing.

 

4) Which brings me to this point: the "crippled argument." I stand by this. FUE cripples your race horse right out of the gate. No two ways about it. The grafts are twisted, ripped, crushed, skeletonized and grow around 20% less than the same grafts taken out by strip. If you have a horse with 4 legs, and I tie one of them off and make him run on 75% capacity before the gates even open, what do you call this? Crippled before the race even starts. Again, I'm not going to win any friends here. But it's the truth. And I'm okay with that.

 

5) I'd actually have a lot less headaches and more money if my practice was all FUE. But it's not the right way to do things. And you're right, there is a time and a place for strip and FUE. But I don't think FUE's place is ever for sessions this big.

 

Here's my philosophy: If you need some small patchwork, some refinement somewhere (and BTW, I really don't like using FUE for hairline refinement because I don't think the quality of the hair growth is suitable for the most visible region of the scalp), sure, FUE is fine. If you need a lot of grafts that will actually grow and may need procedures down the road. FUT is your man. Spoiler alert: you will have a scar. Unfortunately, I don't have a magic wand. I'd love to give guys Brad Pitt's hair with no signs I ever touched their scalp daily, but my dark arts magic isn't at that level yet ; ).

 

HOWEVER, you bring up a very valid point: some guys just absolutely can't live with the strip scar. And I get it. I'm not here to bully these guys into a procedure that will leave them unhappy. So here's what I tell them: the only reason to do an FUE over a strip is the linear scar. Otherwise, strip pummels FUE without question. Better growth, better quality, and virgin donor left for more procedures. So, this should be your go to. If you cannot deal with the scar, do the procedure as a modified FUE (mFUE). This way, you won't have the scar, BUT we have grafts we can rely on AND the donor is less wrecked. For those who really want to "have their cake and eat it too," this is THE option.

 

6) Those FUE results. Yes, those results look good. And I'd never stand here and say you cannot get a good result with FUE, because that's not true. We've all seen examples of it. However, the problem is that for every 10 ANY doctor -- let me say that again: ANY doctor -- does, you'll get 1-2 that are great, 5-6 that are okay, and 1-2 that just flat out don't work. This is why FUE patients are screened and selected carefully. Now, back to those results: they look good, but they would have looked fuller and thicker as a strip. And I'll go tit-for-tat with you on FUE versus strip home run cases all day long. For every 1 FUE "wow" result you find, I'll show you 5 "wow" strip results.

 

I hope this is taken in the spirit in which I intended. Like I said before, the things I'm saying aren't hip, fun, sexy, or exciting. But neither is science or medicine/surgery. And as a doctor, I feel the need to say these things. Patients need all the facts available to them before making a decision. And I think we can all respect that.

 

Thank you for participating in this discussion. Hopefully you find it as fascinating as I do. And believe it or not, we really are helping some guys make the right decision here. Keep it up!

 

This is 2000 grafts! Damn. I had 2400 fue and nothing close to this

[Melvin- Admin]

HT,

 

Again, thanks for posting.

 

But I wanted to share the following: remember that when you go to a doctor for a consultation or a procedure, you aren't choosing a procedure based on what you feel. Medicine and surgery are not retail businesses. You can't walk into a medical clinic and say: "I feel like I have a herniated spinal disc, and I choose to take oxycodone for it, please." The doctor would look at you like you had two heads!

 

He/she would rightfully tell you that based on their professional training, you have X diagnosis and you need Y treatment. Any doctor that didn't do this and let a patient get away with this isn't doing their job. And this is harmful to only one person: the patient. That's why the doc said "it's your scalp." Because the only people being harmed by misinformation or the misconception that you can order a HT procedure like a fast food item are the patients. And that's why we do come on here to act as true patient advocates.

 

We could cut about 50% of our overhead and make roughly 2-4x as much per procedure just blindly performing FUE on everyone who asked for it. But that's not our job and it's absolutely not the right way to do things. Do some people think it's the "wrong way," as you stated above? Of course. But you don't stop doing the right thing just because it's unpopular.

 

So, I ask you this: Say you walk into an emergency room with a complaint of chest pain. The cardiologist sees you, performs tests, and says: "you need bypass surgery." Would you tell him: "nope, I don't want that. Do cardiac stenting -- the less invasive option. And don't try to tell me the benefits of the procedure you recommended or you're not a patient advocate and you don't respect my choice."

 

Of course you wouldn't! And you would have no respect, nor should you, for a cardiologist who caved and said: "Ahh shucks. Okay, we'll do the other one."

 

Hopefully this analogy clears things up a bit. No need to go back and forth with this and detract from the thread, so I'll leave it at that. Again, very pleased you found a solution for your hair loss.

 

HTsoon,

This is not the first time of heard protests like this.

 

What you wrote would be valid if you were shopping for clothes, but not for a surgical procedure.

 

You are not a "customer", you are a patient. So many posters on here lose sight of that fact.

 

You can doctor shop and get what you want. Go ahead. Why should you care what I think?

 

Thanks for the practice and business tips.

 

Hair restoration is an ELECTIVE procedure, it is not medically necessary. Therefore, patients are in fact customers. You're not directing my care in any way shape or form let's make that crystal clear, you can not compare a hair transplant or boob job to spinal surgery. I do doctor shop in fact isn't that the purpose of this site!??!? When you have an ELECTIVE procedure you want to make sure you're choosing what best fits your needs not what best fits the doctors pockets. I've yet to see one single FUE physician on here bashing FUT, their work speaks for itself there's no need, only one FUE physician bashes FUT and he can't be mentioned on here. He's been practicing longer than you Dr. Feller, even medical professionals differ in opinion, so why is it not ok for patients to differ in opinion ?

 

I think a better analogy Dr. Bloxham is this, a woman walks in to a plastic surgeons office and says I want double DD's the physician says "no" I don't think double DD's will match your figure, are you saying the customer/patient is supposed to just follow whatever the physician is telling her will look good based on his opinion? As I said hair restoration is 100% ELECTIVE it is not required due to medical necessity, so it's ridiculous to compare to heart surgery or any other surgery that would be MEDICALLY required. Another analogy would be a person walks in to a plastic surgeons office and asks for closed ELECTIVE rhinoplasty, the surgeon tells her she would get a better result opting for open rhinoplasty, are you telling me she should not question the physician at all and follow whatever he says? Makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

The elephant in the room that nobody discusses is the fact that with every strip procedure you have the chances of your scar expanding increases dramatically, it's Russian roulette even the best surgeons can't predict this, having a disfigured scar is 1000000x worse than being bald, so what's the trade off? You go from being insecure about being bald something thats quite common in men, to being disfigured with a disfigured scar on your head that looks like the jokers smile. Not only that but you say get FUE after you've been "stripped out" that means that you would decrease the density of your donor area which would make the disfigured scar more noticeable that's absolute nonsense to me.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Melvin-HTsoon

[FUE2014]

It's pretty easy to find results on HRN of excellent FUE cases with 1800 grafts. I typed in FUE 1800 grafts in the search bar and this was the *first* result

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171758-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-fue-1800-grafts.html

 

I'm still yet to be convinced that comparable FUT results are that better, and emperically how do you prove it as a universal fact?

[Sethticles]

Not only that but you say get FUE after you've been "stripped out" that means that you would decrease the density of your donor area which would make the disfigured scar more noticeable that's absolute nonsense to me.

 

100% agree, makes no sense that theory, stripped out to you cant strip no more, so to clear this theory up you have 3 or 4 25cm long scars that were only being hidden by hair longer than blade #4, to go and then expose them by thinning out the area, that's Dr Feller best case logic, he has promoted this argument dozens of times with little thought to his theory.

 

crazy logic, in fact rather scary

[Melvin- Admin]

100% agree, makes no sense that theory, stripped out to you cant strip no more, so to clear this theory up you have 3 or 4 25cm long scars that were only being hidden by hair longer than blade #4, to go and then expose them by thinning out the area, that's Dr Feller best case logic, he has promoted this argument dozens of times with little thought to his theory.

 

crazy logic, in fact rather scary

 

It makes no sense, another thing that FUT physicians fail to mention is that each time a strip is harvested the donor elasticity decreases, increasing the possibility of scar widening, also tension on the wound due to poor elasticity significantly increases the chances of shock loss of the donor region, sometimes the hair comes back and sometimes it doesn't. Therefore, you're gambling with the possibility that the disfigurement becomes visible, thus causing more emotional and psychological pain than the hair loss that the procedure was supposed to remedy. So in other words you're changing one problem for a much bigger problem, and on top of all of this you're paying money for that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, individuals who need more than one procedure should opt out of FUT, the possibility of the scar widening is unpredictable and varies from patient to patient. FUT physicians who only have their financial interest in mind will tell patients otherwise.

[mav23100gunther]

100% agree, makes no sense that theory, stripped out to you cant strip no more, so to clear this theory up you have 3 or 4 25cm long scars that were only being hidden by hair longer than blade #4, to go and then expose them by thinning out the area, that's Dr Feller best case logic, he has promoted this argument dozens of times with little thought to his theory.

 

crazy logic, in fact rather scary

 

Not true re the 3 or 4 scars. I believe that in most cases, its only 1 scar, as they remove the existing scar during the strip. Obviously this is dependent on having selected the right surgeon the 1st time around.

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

Whoa, Seth. Need to clarify one thing: the strip scar is taken with the new strip each time. So you'll always only have 1 scar. Not 3-4. And the theory behind stripping out and then stealing more hair IS the absolute best way to maximize your grafts. You don't thin out any areas of the donor unnecessarily. What you do is take follicles from areas that can't be reached by strip and are, therefore, still virgin. You then take an appropriate amount of grafts from here and you don't thin anything.

 

If what you're saying is true, then FUE, by definition, thins out the entire donor every time. I don't think this is what you're saying or meaning to say.

 

HT,

 

You're not a customer. You're a patient. Cosmetic, life saving, elective, you're still a patient receiving care from a doctor. I'd never refer to any patient undergoing a procedure with any healthcare professional as a customer. And despite what procedure you're undergoing, the relationship is unchanged: you're still a patient coming to a professional asking for their expertise and help fixing the problem. Whether it's your heart or your hair, the doctor is still trained to evaluate the scenario, recommend the appropriate course, and do his or her best to carry out the procedure. No different. And don't let anyone convince you otherwise. You're still a patient.

 

And I hate to be so blunt, but you're incorrect in saying that patients who need more than one procedure should opt for FUE. It's the exact opposite, in fact. If you need virgin donor for more procedures down the road, keep as much of it virgin as you can. It's simple anatomy.

 

FUE2014,

 

Result looks good. Patient characteristics played a role without a doubt. Send the same patient I shared from Dr Alexander to the same physician who performed that procedure, and the results would not be the same. Even if everything else was -- the surgeon, the procedure, and the area being filled.

 

And, it would have looked thicker and fuller as a strip.

 

But you guys are right, not a single FUE doctor has come on here to refute these claims. Two ways to look at this: every single FUE only doctor in the world is so busy that they can't take the time to post once; or the "other" reason. Hmmm. Haha.

[mav23100gunther]

It makes no sense, another thing that FUT physicians fail to mention is that each time a strip is harvested the donor elasticity decreases, increasing the possibility of scar widening, also tension on the wound due to poor elasticity significantly increases the chances of shock loss of the donor region, sometimes the hair comes back and sometimes it doesn't. Therefore, you're gambling with the possibility that the disfigurement becomes visible, thus causing more emotional and psychological pain than the hair loss that the procedure was supposed to remedy. So in other words you're changing one problem for a much bigger problem, and on top of all of this you're paying money for that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, individuals who need more than one procedure should opt out of FUT, the possibility of the scar widening is unpredictable and varies from patient to patient. FUT physicians who only have their financial interest in mind will tell patients otherwise.

 

I'll be honest with you. If FUT guarantees a greater number of lifetime grafts, then I am going to want to capture every single one of them. If it means a linier scar but more hair and coverage, then hell yeah I will take it. When the time comes to shave my head, and people ask me why I have a scar on the back of my he, I will answer them as follows: "Because I am a freakin billionaire, just look at the big smile on the back of my head, ear to ear baby!!!"

[Melvin- Admin]

Whoa, Seth. Need to clarify one thing: the strip scar is taken with the new strip each time. So you'll always only have 1 scar. Not 3-4. And the theory behind stripping out and then stealing more hair IS the absolute best way to maximize your grafts. You don't thin out any areas of the donor unnecessarily. What you do is take follicles from areas that can't be reached by strip and are, therefore, still virgin. You then take an appropriate amount of grafts from here and you don't thin anything.

 

If what you're saying is true, then FUE, by definition, thins out the entire donor every time. I don't think this is what you're saying or meaning to say.

 

HT,

 

You're not a customer. You're a patient. Cosmetic, life saving, elective, you're still a patient receiving care from a doctor. I'd never refer to any patient undergoing a procedure with any healthcare professional as a customer. And despite what procedure you're undergoing, the relationship is unchanged: you're still a patient coming to a professional asking for their expertise and help fixing the problem. Whether it's your heart or your hair, the doctor is still trained to evaluate the scenario, recommend the appropriate course, and do his or her best to carry out the procedure. No different. And don't let anyone convince you otherwise. You're still a patient.

 

And I hate to be so blunt, but you're incorrect in saying that patients who need more than one procedure should opt for FUE. It's the exact opposite, in fact. If you need virgin donor for more procedures down the road, keep as much of it virgin as you can. It's simple anatomy.

 

FUE2014,

 

Result looks good. Patient characteristics played a role without a doubt. Send the same patient I shared from Dr Alexander to the same physician who performed that procedure, and the results would not be the same. Even if everything else was -- the surgeon, the procedure, and the area being filled.

 

And, it would have looked thicker and fuller as a strip.

 

But you guys are right, not a single FUE doctor has come on here to refute these claims. Two ways to look at this: every single FUE only doctor in the world is so busy that they can't take the time to post once; or the "other" reason. Hmmm. Haha.

 

We are customers we are buying cosmetic surgery, your right in giving your professional OPINION on the procedure but to take your opinion as law would not be in the patients best interest. Even in medically necessary procedures patients receive second opinions from other medical professionals is this not true? So why on earth would someone not get a second opinion on a elective procedure? There is a FUE doctor that has a lot of negative things to say about FUT but he can't be discussed on this board, he's been in hair restoration since the early 90's so he's done thousands of FUT procedures his professional opinion differs from yours and Dr. Feller's. You have yet to refute any of my comments regarding the loss of elasticity after strip surgery, the fact that the scars widen and the tension on the wound can cause permanent shock loss of the donor region. How does a physician know when too many strips are too many? By that time it's too late the irreversible damage has been done. You can check for elasticity of the scalp but that's not 100% it's very unpredictable and even the best surgeons can not accurately guess, it also varies from patient to patient so it's Russian roulette with your head no thanks.

[Melvin- Admin]

I'll be honest with you. If FUT guarantees a greater number of lifetime grafts, then I am going to want to capture every single one of them. If it means a linier scar but more hair and coverage, then hell yeah I will take it. When the time comes to shave my head, and people ask me why I have a scar on the back of my he, I will answer them as follows: "Because I am a freakin billionaire, just look at the big smile on the back of my head, ear to ear baby!!!"

 

If the scar doesn't bother you by all means more power to you, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you " go ahead and have joker smile on the back of your head, it's your head not mine" at the end of the day elective surgery is heavily dependent on what the patient is satisfied with, me personally having a disfigured scar is worse than being bald, not everyone would agree therefore FUT would be a good choice, but to act like you can not achieve satisfactory results with FUE is just flat out false. The difference in yields are only by averages not all surgeries are created equal, from a top FUT to top FUE the differences are minuscule maybe 5%, if that 5% is worth a scar that could become disfigured to you than absolutely it's not an issue, but to ppl like me that's just not an option. Not everyone is going to agree that's why we have freedom of choice as patients and customers don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

[mav23100gunther]

If the scar doesn't bother you by all means more power to you, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you " go ahead and have joker smile on the back of your head, it's your head not mine" at the end of the day elective surgery is heavily dependent on what the patient is satisfied with, me personally having a disfigured scar is worse than being bald, not everyone would agree therefore FUT would be a good choice, but to act like you can not achieve satisfactory results with FUE is just flat out false. The difference in yields are only by averages not all surgeries are created equal, from a top FUT to top FUE the differences are minuscule maybe 5%, if that 5% is worth a scar that could become disfigured to you than absolutely it's not an issue, but to ppl like me that's just not an option. Not everyone is going to agree that's why we have freedom of choice as patients and customers don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

 

Buddy, but the point being made is that its not necessarily 5%. Its not just the transection rate, you also have to take the impact of electing to proceed with FUE over FUT on the lifetime donor supply of grafts. I have yet to hear a FUE surgeon dispute the fact that FUT will give one more lifetime grafts. If the average person only has 6,000 lifetime grafts available to him, and he is a higher Norwood, then surely that IS going to matter. If I had an abundance of lifetime grafts available to me (i.e. in excess of 20,000), then of course FUE starts making more sense, even with the higher risk of transection, abit slightly higher. Hell I do not know if thsi stuff is even true, but respected surgeons are making these claims and no FUE surgeons are disputing them, so I'm sorry, I have to trust what Dr.Feller is stating unless proven otherwise. I completely disagree that FUE will take over from FUT. As long as FUT provides a greater number of lifetime grafts, and a lower risk of transection, then it will always have a place until something better comes along, or FUE evolves to guarantee those two things. Its not just about the scar, I want more hair on my head, and if the scar only gets me 1,000 more grafts, then hell yes, I will take every single one.

 

I for one haven't always appriciated Dr. Feller's tone, but I do appriciate how passionate the man is about this, and I am million times more informed now based on the information he has laid out on this forum. Yes, it is elective, and yes we are customers with the right to choose, but its still a surgical procedure, and I do believe strongly that Dr Feller has an ethical, yes ETHICAL responsibility to refuse surgery if he feels appropriate, as well as inform us of the all the facts and circumstances as he knows it. I personally do not take exception to anything he has said on this particular thread, and I also think you should have a little more respect when addressing a Doctor. I highly doubt he needs to be schooled by you or me in how to conduct his business. Are you a qualified doctor?

[Melvin- Admin]

Buddy, but the point being made is that its not necessarily 5%. Its not just the transection rate, you also have to take the impact of electing to proceed with FUE over FUT on the lifetime donor supply of grafts. I have yet to hear a FUE surgeon dispute the fact that FUT will give one more lifetime grafts. If the average person only has 6,000 lifetime grafts available to him, and he is a higher Norwood, then surely that IS going to matter. If I had an abundance of lifetime grafts available to me (i.e. in excess of 20,000), then of course FUE starts making more sense, even with the higher risk of transection, abit slightly higher. Hell I do not know if thsi stuff is even true, but respected surgeons are making these claims and no FUE surgeons are disputing them, so I'm sorry, I have to trust what Dr.Feller is stating unless proven otherwise. I completely disagree that FUE will take over from FUT. As long as FUT provides a greater number of lifetime grafts, and a lower risk of transection, then it will always have a place until something better comes along, or FUE evolves to guarantee those two things. Its not just about the scar, I want more hair on my head, and if the scar only gets me 1,000 more grafts, then hell yes, I will take every single one.

 

I for one haven't always appriciated Dr. Feller's tone, but I do appriciate how passionate the man is about this, and I am million times more informed now based on the information he has laid out on this forum. Yes, it is elective, and yes we are customers with the right to choose, but its still a surgical procedure, and I do believe strongly that Dr Feller has an ethical, yes ETHICAL responsibility to refuse surgery if he feels appropriate, as well as inform us of the all the facts and circumstances as he knows it. I personally do not take exception to anything he has said on this particular thread, and I also think you should have a little more respect when addressing a Doctor. I highly doubt he needs to be schooled by you or me in how to conduct his business. Are you a qualified doctor?

 

 

If you believe either of them are saying these things for ethical reasons than God bless you, I on the other hand can see the blatant marketing of FUT in an attempt to sway laymans to the strip obviously for their financial interest.

 

As I've previously said before, FUE does not only rely on scalp hair for harvest, I posted a result from Dr. U he had harvested 5,500 follicular units from the head and 15,000 from the body, the result was a Norwood 6 becoming a Norwood 1, this is not possible through conventional FUT, FUE is not limited to just scalp hair like FUT, and I don't have to be a medical professional to be well versed in hair restoration, I've been researching hair loss for over 10 years since I started balding.

 

I encourage you to research the subject yourself, many of the things said have been gross exaggerations in regards to yield, again the single most important thing when having a procedure is finding a qualified doctor, sure you an go and have FUE by a FUT physician the yield will be poor because they are not FUE specialist, how many times do you see strip patients who have been butchered going to a FUE physician for repair, why not vice versa ever ask yourself this question, the only examples I have ever seen have been repairs from the 90's from the old black and decker FUE.

 

So again I say everyone weighs the pros and cons differently, what may be a big deal to me may not be a big deal to you. The risk of of having a butchered head is soooo much worse than being bald for me, so the con far outweighs the pro, again their have been no studies conducted to quantify how much more effective FUT is than FUE, every surgeon only tells you what they feel is the correct amount, so the percentages they are giving you have not been quantified. Again, I repeat physicians have monetary incentives and motives, you need to research things yourself, everything I have said was said to me by hair restoration physicians that perform both procedures I'm not just making this up. After one strip your scalp loses elasticity, so just stripping out like they have said may not even be an option for some individuals, have they mentioned this? No they are only talking best case scenarios which are not the case in most situations. If the scalp is not elastic guess what the wound will be difficult to close, and when the wound is stretched you can bet it's going to widen and become disfigured, on top of that the donor hair may be shock lossed permanently, they fail to mention this as well.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

If you believe either of them are saying these things for ethical reasons than God bless you, I on the other hand can see the blatant marketing of FUT in an attempt to sway laymans to the strip obviously for their financial interest.

 

As I've previously said before, FUE does not only rely on scalp hair for harvest, I posted a result from Dr. U he had harvested 5,500 follicular units from the head and 15,000 from the body, the result was a Norwood 6 becoming a Norwood 1, this is not possible through conventional FUT, FUE is not limited to just scalp hair like FUT, and I don't have to be a medical professional to be well versed in hair restoration, I've been researching hair loss for over 10 years since I started balding.

 

I encourage you to research the subject yourself, many of the things said have been gross exaggerations in regards to yield, again the single most important thing when having a procedure is finding a qualified doctor, sure you an go and have FUE by a FUT physician the yield will be poor because they are not FUE specialist, how many times do you see strip patients who have been butchered going to a FUE physician for repair, why not vice versa ever ask yourself this question, the only examples I have ever seen have been repairs from the 90's from the old black and decker FUE.

 

So again I say everyone weighs the pros and cons differently, what may be a big deal to me may not be a big deal to you. The risk of of having a butchered head is soooo much worse than being bald for me, so the con far outweighs the pro, again their have been no studies conducted to quantify how much more effective FUT is than FUE, every surgeon only tells you what they feel is the correct amount, so the percentages they are giving you have not been quantified. Again, I repeat physicians have monetary incentives and motives, you need to research things yourself, everything I have said was said to me by hair restoration physicians that perform both procedures I'm not just making this up. After one strip your scalp loses elasticity, so just stripping out like they have said may not even be an option for some individuals, have they mentioned this? No they are only talking best case scenarios which are not the case in most situations. If the scalp is not elastic guess what the wound will be difficult to close, and when the wound is stretched you can bet it's going to widen and become disfigured, on top of that the donor hair may be shock lossed permanently, they fail to mention this as well.

 

I have a question for you HTsoon. Do you think Sethicles has monetary incentives?

[Melvin- Admin]

I have a question for you HTsoon. Do you think Sethicles has monetary incentives?

 

 

Is he a physician practicing FUE? If he is than yes I'd say he does.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

He is a representative for a a physician practicing FUE. Do you think he has monetary incentives?

[Melvin- Admin]

He is a representative for a a physician practicing FUE. Do you think he has monetary incentives?

 

Absolutely! Patients should do research on their own because physicians like representatives for physicians have monetary incentives bottom line.

[1978matt]

I took the liberty of examining your other profile photos and have to say that this is far from an impressive result. What concerns me most is that your surgeon appears to have taken grafts from the nape area (or very close to it). These hairs are more likely to be non permanent especially since you are still a young guy, and your pre-op (grown out) hair shows this area to be already thin.

 

You really need to be careful as I could see you ending up a NW7 in 15 years with a narrow band of permanent hair and exposed dot scars either side. To rub salt in the wounds the transplanted hair will also thin. No amount of BHT is going to fix that I'm afraid.

 

Here is a picture of my before and after taken in the same bathroom same lighting, 1,800 grafts

I challenge any FUT procedure of only 1,800 grafts to look any better at my level of baldness I must add i'm very happy with the result.

 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

I took the liberty of examining your other profile photos and have to say that this is far from an impressive result. What concerns me most is that your surgeon appears to have taken grafts from the nape area (or very close to it). These hairs are more likely to be non permanent especially since you are still a young guy, and your pre-op (grown out) hair shows this area to be already thin.

 

You really need to be careful as I could see you ending up a NW7 in 15 years with a narrow band of permanent hair and exposed dot scars either side. To rub salt in the wounds the transplanted hair will also thin. No amount of BHT is going to fix that I'm afraid.

 

Why you would want to "rub salt in the wounds" is beyond me, I am a Norwood 6 the grafts were extracted with in the permanent zone above my nape, the physician was well aware of my permanent zone as he had asked me to grow my sides out for the procedure he measured my donor density for miniaturization as well, can the donor area thin, sure it could but it could also thin for FUT which would reveal a far more ugly scar. For 1,800 grafts at the level of baldness I have id beg to differ I think it was a good result, at the end of the day I'm the patient as long as I'm happy with my results that's all that matters, I don't t compare myself to others because there are different variables like donor density and hair characteristics that play a role in hair restoration. Furthermore, I already have a surgery scheduled to address the lateral jumps, and yes I will be using body hair for my crown. What you said can apply to anyone know one knows how far hairloss will progress the best we can do is measure donor density and try to slow down the process by medication. So the same applies to you too.