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Dr. Alan Feller

FUT is more popular than FUE

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6 hours ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

Both procedures  are certainly options and one may be better suited for one patient over the other however, I wouldn’t say one should be avoided necessarily. They both produce scarring, albeit different kinds  and I understand what you mean about strip coming with a few additional risks regarding scar stretching, etc.  In the hands of a skilled physician, risks of bad scarring are minimal however, It obviously can’t happen. Moreover, bad scarring can occur with FUE, while rare, it’s certainly can happen.

This is a fair point. Thank you for the caveat.

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16 hours ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

Bismark,

 I agree that both FUSS and FUE Our advantageous in different situations. There are certainly times where FUSS is appropriate and preferred over FUE and vice versa. There are also times where they are both complementary and used synergistically to maximize donor hair.

The only comment I disagree with you on, is saying that one particular procedure/donor harvesting method should be “avoided”.   Both procedures  are certainly options and one may be better suited for one patient over the other however, I wouldn’t say one should be avoided necessarily. They both produce scarring, albeit different kinds  and I understand what you mean about strip coming with a few additional risks regarding scar stretching, etc.  In the hands of a skilled physician, risks of bad scarring are minimal however, It obviously can’t happen. Moreover, bad scarring can occur with FUE, while rare, it’s certainly can happen.

best wishes,

Bill. 

 

Could you please reference a few cases that you consider to be bad FUE scarring from highly recommended, first tier clinics? 

Edited by delancey

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

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I showed my girlfriend an operation of FUT and she cringed and asked why anyone would do that. It is barbaric. You are cutting a chunk of FLESH out of somebodies head when you can do a less invasive method of extracting grafts singularly. Dr's are making complete BANK off of hair transplants with some charging up to 10$ per graft, that is insane. It comes down to morals and how rich people feel they need to be. Honestly, if I could perform hair transplant surgery, I would do it making a comfortable living of 40K a year just so people could enjoy their lives without having a chunk of their head cut out and being able to enjoy a full head of hair. Its not fair some people are born and for the rest of their lives enjoying a full head of hair where as other people bald, society demands appearance and Dr's quite literally take advantage of peoples insecurities. No reason in this world a Dr has to make that much money off of other peoples insecurities. Any Dr morally could take the time to perform a surgery FUE, making sure the grafts were properly harvested and placed correctly to insure good growth at a reasonable rate. Money greed is a horrible thing and honestly a shame.

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59 minutes ago, Squidward said:

I showed my girlfriend an operation of FUT and she cringed and asked why anyone would do that. It is barbaric. You are cutting a chunk of FLESH out of somebodies head when you can do a less invasive method of extracting grafts singularly. Dr's are making complete BANK off of hair transplants with some charging up to 10$ per graft, that is insane. It comes down to morals and how rich people feel they need to be. Honestly, if I could perform hair transplant surgery, I would do it making a comfortable living of 40K a year just so people could enjoy their lives without having a chunk of their head cut out and being able to enjoy a full head of hair. Its not fair some people are born and for the rest of their lives enjoying a full head of hair where as other people bald, society demands appearance and Dr's quite literally take advantage of peoples insecurities. No reason in this world a Dr has to make that much money off of other peoples insecurities. Any Dr morally could take the time to perform a surgery FUE, making sure the grafts were properly harvested and placed correctly to insure good growth at a reasonable rate. Money greed is a horrible thing and honestly a shame.

Well you can claim that it’s barbaric however, I’ve had 4 strip procedures and  went from being completely bald on top to wielding a pretty full looking head of hair that I can style and grow anyway I want. 

I won’t deny that the strip removal looks a bit gruesome to those who are new to the procedure however, to date, it is The most efficient way of maximizing the amount of donor hair in a single procedure/day  and optimizing growth.   There’s a link to my patient website in my signature below. Feel free to take a look at what my hair looks like before and after all 4 procedures. 

 However, my before pictures don’t do it justice because any hair that you see on top remaining in those photos would be completely gone had I never had any hair transplant surgery. 

FUE, while it looks less invasive can actually be just as painful if not more so given the number of small punches are being made in the back and sides of the scalp.   

 Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting that if you really isn’t a viable procedure, it certainly is. However, I disagree that strip is barbaric and without it, I wouldn’t be where I am today  

Best wishes,

Bill


I am the managing publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog and this Hair Loss Forum. I am also a 4 time hair transplant patient. View my patient hair loss website to view my entire hair restoration journey with photos.

Remember, true beauty radiates from within, not from the skin.

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

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"Money greed is a horrible thing and honestly a shame."

 

Greed can certainly get out of control, IMO.

As to the HT Doctors, it's also supply and demand. A lot of these Doctors are backed up 7, 8 months, or a year or more.  Because of that demand, they can pretty much charge whatever the customer will pay. If there were no lines waiting, I'm sure the price would be less. 

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There is a top cut and a bottom cut in a FUT procedure, how many of those precious grafts are being transected, if morally done under a microscope FUE would be done without this, each graft is individually punched, where is the comparison? I've always wondered when someone takes a scalpel across the back of someone head there is no doubt going to be a lot of hair transected, thats not science, thats common sense, you cant take a knife to the back of someones head given that hair is in a random pattern and expect that a ton of grafts are going to be cut into. given all the hairs that have a sharp scalpel into them does this not make them no longer viable? I have always been curious about this. Also, when a Dr Cuts a chunk out of the back of a head, say you pay for 2500 grafts, and they implant that, if there are more in the strip, are they not also gone to waste if you cant pay for more? With FUE when they are individually extracted cant you get a more accurate number of what you are paying for? I know that everyone says cost should not be a deciding factor but given the cost of a hair transplant, it should be when Dr's can charge as high as 6-10$ for a single graft of hair. Im no scientist, but I do know that variables given in different context of peoples hair if you cut a strip you are always guessing how many follicles would come out of a strip noone is actually counting and if you cut out more than what a person is paying for you are at a loss of that many more follicles, but with FUE atleast you can be a little more accurate on how many are being taken out as they are individually done. I am not trying to argue, but with a strip, that is a guess on the average follicles per sq cm, atleast with FUE they are individually taken and you can be more accurate on the number of grafts being taken and implanted. When the talk is how precious a graft is because they are irreplacable, how can you compare? Yes you can argue that there is transection with FUE, but you are not cutting across an irregular pattern of hair like you do with an FUT. A Dr. can tell you anything they want at the end of the day it is $$ in their pockets. We would like to live in a world where everyone is honest but that is just not the fact. Put a bunch of dots on a piece of paper in an irregular pattern and draw a straight line through it, you are going to hit a lot of those dots, that is an FUT procedure in a nutshell, those dots are your grafts and they are being sliced into. FUT makes the procedure quicker, but noone is going to convince me that the transection rate is less when you can draw it out and see the evidence. Not to mention the stitches or staples that follow that also go into the donor area further damaging the donor site/follicles.

Edited by Squidward

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Transection rates are significantly lower with strip than FUE especially when a single bladed instrument is used to harvest the donor.   I’m surprised that you don’t know this.  For whatever reason, you have developed a real negative and dim view of strip.  You are entitled to your opinion of course. But be careful not to peddle misinformation around the forum.  

Bill 

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I am the managing publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog and this Hair Loss Forum. I am also a 4 time hair transplant patient. View my patient hair loss website to view my entire hair restoration journey with photos.

Remember, true beauty radiates from within, not from the skin.

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

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3 hours ago, Squidward said:

I showed my girlfriend an operation of FUT and she cringed and asked why anyone would do that. It is barbaric. You are cutting a chunk of FLESH out of somebodies head when you can do a less invasive method of extracting grafts singularly. Dr's are making complete BANK off of hair transplants with some charging up to 10$ per graft, that is insane. It comes down to morals and how rich people feel they need to be. Honestly, if I could perform hair transplant surgery, I would do it making a comfortable living of 40K a year just so people could enjoy their lives without having a chunk of their head cut out and being able to enjoy a full head of hair. Its not fair some people are born and for the rest of their lives enjoying a full head of hair where as other people bald, society demands appearance and Dr's quite literally take advantage of peoples insecurities. No reason in this world a Dr has to make that much money off of other peoples insecurities. Any Dr morally could take the time to perform a surgery FUE, making sure the grafts were properly harvested and placed correctly to insure good growth at a reasonable rate. Money greed is a horrible thing and honestly a shame.

Barbaric? What are you talking about? Have you ever seen a C-section before? Or maybe Open heart surgery? Brain surgery to cut out tumors? If you think an elective FUT strip procedure is barbaric, then I wonder what you think of the others I mentioned. What about LASIK where they cut a flap in your eyeball, lift it, and then zap away at your eyeball using a laser. Get real man, FUT is nowhere near barbaric. Is it gruesome, sure, but it works with minimal risk of any king of injury or complication, and there are plenty of more gruesome medical procedure. Calling this form of modern medicane that transforms the lives of many men for the better is extremely disrespectful to the surgeons out there who make it happen. 

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3 hours ago, Squidward said:

Dr's are making complete BANK off of hair transplants with some charging up to 10$ per graft, that is insane. It comes down to morals and how rich people feel they need to be. Honestly, if I could perform hair transplant surgery, I would do it making a comfortable living of 40K a year just so people could enjoy their lives without having a chunk of their head cut out and being able to enjoy a full head of hair. Its not fair some people are born and for the rest of their lives enjoying a full head of hair where as other people bald, society demands appearance and Dr's quite literally take advantage of peoples insecurities. No reason in this world a Dr has to make that much money off of other peoples insecurities. 

40K a year? If you could make 200k a year, I would betcha you would go for it. I could be wrong, and if I am then you are a better human than I am. Bottom line is supply and demand. Price is set by how much consumers are willing to pay. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Surgeons charging that much if consumers are willing to pay. That’s the world we live in unless you want to relocate to a communist nation. I would also love to know where in the US is 40k a year comfortable?

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Squidward,

What do you have against capitalism anyway? Is it wrong to make good money and provide a valuable service? Hair transplant surgery is a very delicate procedure that requires a great deal of skills, experience and talent. If the surgeon trains  for many years after getting his or her medical degree  and wants to devote his life to helping men and women feel better about themselves and make a good living at the same time, why begrudge them? I certainly don’t.   

 I don’t know what you do for a living or how much you make, but I bet your bottom dollar that you would love to make more. I’m sure if your boss offered you a raise from $40,000 a year to $100,000 year, you wouldn’t turn it down.    Or are you telling me that you would

 Let’s not forget either that hair transplant surgery Is an elective procedure and not everybody can afford it. Sure, it would be nice for it to be more affordable so that everybody could undergo the procedure however, most things of value In life aren’t cheap. And frankly, if a surgeon was to go to medical school and then train for years to become a hair transplant surgeon, I’m sure that wouldn’t be interested in the vocation if they were only making $40,000 a year. Let’s face it, you can hardly survive on your own making that money today.

So what exactly is your motive here? First, you start filing discrediting strip surgery and now it seems like you have a problem with hair transplant surgery in general and surgeons making money doing it. 

 Perhaps you would be willing to divulge you do for a living and how much you make and then we can tell you that you deserve to make a mint less than what you make now.

best regards,

Bill


I am the managing publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog and this Hair Loss Forum. I am also a 4 time hair transplant patient. View my patient hair loss website to view my entire hair restoration journey with photos.

Remember, true beauty radiates from within, not from the skin.

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

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9 hours ago, mav23100gunther said:

40K a year? If you could make 200k a year, I would betcha you would go for it. I could be wrong, and if I am then you are a better human than I am. Bottom line is supply and demand. Price is set by how much consumers are willing to pay. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Surgeons charging that much if consumers are willing to pay. That’s the world we live in unless you want to relocate to a communist nation. I would also love to know where in the US is 40k a year comfortable?

" I would betcha you would go for it. I could be wrong, and if I am then you are a better human than I am."

 

I hate when people say this. You know as well as he does that he absolutely would not reject 200k over 40k a year if he could get it, the difference is that you're honest about it. 

I have no issue with surgeons charging whatever they like, but I have a serious issue with surgeons charging at extreme prices and not performing touch-ups or offering refunds for free if the results are poor which is blatantly immoral, no matter what you think about capitalism or whether someone needs 200k a year.

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9 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

I hate when people say this. You know as well as he does that he absolutely would not reject 200k over 40k a year if he could get it, the difference is that you're honest about it. 

I have no issue with surgeons charging whatever they like, but I have a serious issue with surgeons charging at extreme prices and not performing touch-ups or offering refunds for free if the results are poor which is blatantly immoral, no matter what you think about capitalism or whether someone needs 200k a year.

Looks like we are in total agreement on the first point then. Yes I do know that he would not decline $200k. I was trying to articulate it as nicely as possible. 

 

Whilst I appreciate your 2nd point, I disagree that not offering refunds or free touch-ups is immoral just because the prices are extreme. This is an elective procedure that is far from a sure thing. The risk of an unsuccessful result was disclosed to me at each consultation I attended. I still chose to move ahead despite the risks. I hardly think I am then entititled to a refund of the result was unsuccessful due to scientific reasons outside of the control of the surgeon. He is running a business for heavens sake. Now is it bad business for him to to not try make it right to an unsatisfied customer by offering partial refunds or a free touch-up on a case by case basis, yes I think that is probably a bad business decision, but hardly immoral, please. It’s a tough world out there my friend where nothing is free. 

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50 minutes ago, mav23100gunther said:

Looks like we are in total agreement on the first point then. Yes I do know that he would not decline $200k. I was trying to articulate it as nicely as possible. 

 

Whilst I appreciate your 2nd point, I disagree that not offering refunds or free touch-ups is immoral just because the prices are extreme. This is an elective procedure that is far from a sure thing. The risk of an unsuccessful result was disclosed to me at each consultation I attended. I still chose to move ahead despite the risks. I hardly think I am then entititled to a refund of the result was unsuccessful due to scientific reasons outside of the control of the surgeon. He is running a business for heavens sake. Now is it bad business for him to to not try make it right to an unsatisfied customer by offering partial refunds or a free touch-up on a case by case basis, yes I think that is probably a bad business decision, but hardly immoral, please. It’s a tough world out there my friend where nothing is free. 

The issue is that in the case of a bad result no one can ever know whether it was due to surgeon mistakes or if it was physiological etc. On top of that if people were aware of the actual failure rates of transplants even with top surgeons from doing (overly) extensive research like I have, there is no way in hell they would opt for dropping 20k USD on a procedure with non-existent post-op care. You're fundamentally arguing that a surgeon has no moral obligation to provide a good service.

It's also the definition of immorality; providing a poor service to someone in a fragile personal situation, having the ability and finances to correct it but not doing so. I'm not saying it should be illegal or denying that its a tough and uncertain world out there which people should be aware of, but in any other industry or provided service this wouldn't be considered "morally" acceptable. A significant number of surgeons (the majority) do offer touch-ups or partial refunds in the case of a bad result, the abnormal situation is those who don't. 

The reality is that people looking for hair transplants are typically highly emotional and often desperate, they're bombarded with only good results from clinics that are marketed heavily on websites like this and then typically spend 30 seconds during consult and pre-procedure hearing about and signing a form accepting it isn't a sure bet, without being given specific failure rates. How about being put in contact with every repair patient the clinic has ever produced? Obviously this is not the way anyone markets or should market in this world, but when the cruel realities in this industry are overwhelmingly masked to get people in the door It's not asking to much to suggest surgeons ought to stand behind their work in the situation of a bad result when they lose little profit in percentage terms by doing so. An individual can lose a huge amount of money for their personal situation, experience psychological damage and harm to their daily life and still be on the hook for more. 

Don't get me wrong, I think a surgeon should be entitled to run their business however they like and if a daredevil like yourself is happy to accept the risks involved with the service without any potential compensation when things turn bad you should be able. It's fair as a base assumption though that it isn't moral to provide poor service for a huge amount of money and not rectify the poor result. People should be made aware both that if a clinic doesn't at the outset, and also that most clinics (at least those advertised on this website) do indeed stand behind their work and offer some form of compensation for a bad result.

Edited by JeanLDD
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23 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

The issue is that in the case of a bad result no one can ever know whether it was due to surgeon mistakes or if it was physiological etc. On top of that if people were aware of the actual failure rates of transplants even with top surgeons from doing (overly) extensive research like I have, there is no way in hell they would opt for dropping 20k USD on a procedure with non-existent post-op care. You're fundamentally arguing that a surgeon has no moral obligation to provide a good service.

It's also the definition of immorality; providing a poor service to someone in a fragile personal situation, having the ability and finances to correct it but not doing so. I'm not saying it should be illegal or denying that its a tough and uncertain world out there which people should be aware of, but in any other industry or provided service this wouldn't be considered "morally" acceptable. A significant number of surgeons (the majority) do offer touch-ups or partial refunds in the case of a bad result, the abnormal situation is those who don't. 

The reality is that people looking for hair transplants are typically highly emotional and often desperate, they're bombarded with only good results from clinics that are marketed heavily on websites like this and then typically spend 30 seconds during consult and pre-procedure hearing about and signing a form accepting it isn't a sure bet, without being given specific failure rates. How about being put in contact with every repair patient the clinic has ever produced? Obviously this is not the way anyone markets or should market in this world, but when the cruel realities in this industry are overwhelmingly masked to get people in the door It's not asking to much to suggest surgeons ought to stand behind their work in the situation of a bad result when they lose little profit in percentage terms by doing so. An individual can lose a huge amount of money for their personal situation, experience psychological damage and harm to their daily life and still be on the hook for more. 

Don't get me wrong, I think a surgeon should be entitled to run their business however they like and if a daredevil like yourself is happy to accept the risks involved with the service without any potential compensation when things turn bad you should be able. It's fair as a base assumption though that it isn't moral to provide poor service for a huge amount of money and not rectify the poor result. People should be made aware both that if a clinic doesn't at the outset, and also that most clinics (at least those advertised on this website) do indeed stand behind their work and offer some form of compensation for a bad result.

It’s a very deep thought. I do think a surgeon has a moral obligation to provide good service by executing the procedure to the best of his ability first and foremost. I don’t think that good service should extend to having to provide a refund if the procedure is not successful despite the surgeon executing the procedure to the best of his ability, and the patient having made an informed decision to consent to the surgery despite the risks. I also believe the surgeon has a moral obligation to ensure that he is only working on an informed patient and therefore one who has made an informed decision based on that surgeon clearly communicating the risks involved and chance of non-success. To me, this is no different than engaging an attorney who then loses the case despite his best efforts. He should still be paid for his services. It becomes different when a seller guarantees his product, and that’s when a return policy and refunds should come into play. No hair transplantation surgeon should be guaranteeing success. I stand by my point of view that providing refunds or free touch ups should be a good business decision as apposed to a moral obligation. 

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It’s been a very long time since this thread was blowing up. Can’t believe it’s been three years. Too be honest, back then I was actually lapping up the info being given out by the OP and the so called three forces. I realized later on that the Dr may not have actually been as up to date on the most recent developments in the FUE industry as he probably should have been (not attending industry conferences or knowing the existence of a well respected FUE surgeon until that surgeon engaged him in a seperate thread). The magnificent transformation and results of the FUE procedures that our co-moderator HTsoon received, in my opinion, pretty much proved to me that I was dead wrong to ever believe that FUT was always a better option. I am not saying that the OP was at all wrong on the matter, and I know HTsoon doesn’t want this thread being revisited, but as someone who has been out of the loop for a year and a half (as I have been living life and focusing on other pertinent life events), I am curious as to whether, three years later FUE has further developed and been refined, and from a pure results perspective, how does it now compare with FUT?

Edited by mav23100gunther
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Welcome back Mav,

It's not that I don't want this thread brought back, I think it's important to have these discussions as long as they are educational and objective. However, in my experience they end up becoming about validation and usually resort to name calling or bashing others results.

The truth is, as you mentioned this is a cosmetic procedure. Therefore, there isn't any legitimate third party researchers that can be objective and unbiased wanting to actually conduct a legitimate study. Furthermore, not all surgeons are created  equal, the skill, talent and experience varies widely, as do their results. So, even if one surgeon had a study comparing his/her own results with either procedure, that only proves how the procedures work at that specific clinic.

Until then, all we can do is go off of results. Me and you both are prime examples of how both procedures can offer fantastic and natural results and why we should stop pitting these procedures against each other.  Glad to see you back Mav, hope you stick around always thought you provided insightful information.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @htrestoration FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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21 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Welcome back Mav,

It's not that I don't want this thread brought back, I think it's important to have these discussions as long as they are educational and objective. However, in my experience they end up becoming about validation and usually resort to name calling or bashing others results.

The truth is, as you mentioned this is a cosmetic procedure. Therefore, there isn't any legitimate third party researchers that can be objective and unbiased wanting to actually conduct a legitimate study. Furthermore, not all surgeons are created  equal, the skill, talent and experience varies widely, as do their results. So, even if one surgeon had a study comparing his/her own results with either procedure, that only proves how the procedures work at that specific clinic.

Until then, all we can do is go off of results. Me and you both are prime examples of how both procedures can offer fantastic and natural results and why we should stop pitting these procedures against each other.  Glad to see you back Mav, hope you stick around always thought you provided insightful information.

Thanks bud, I’ll stick around for a bit to catch-up. At some point I do want to do another pass to address the mid-scalp, but for now an upcoming engagement with the better half is keeping me busy and the diamond will ensure my HT fund is too low to afford that next pass anytime soon. 

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37 minutes ago, mav23100gunther said:

Thanks bud, I’ll stick around for a bit to catch-up. At some point I do want to do another pass to address the mid-scalp, but for now an upcoming engagement with the better half is keeping me busy and the diamond will ensure my HT fund is too low to afford that next pass anytime soon. 

To be fair, I think Feller's comments reflect his own experience with FUE. Other docs that have had better results (the Europeans in particular) seem to have found a way to overcome the physical trauma associated with the procedure to a greater degree.

Congrats on your upcoming nuptials.

Edited by bismarck

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5 hours ago, mav23100gunther said:

Thanks bud, I’ll stick around for a bit to catch-up. At some point I do want to do another pass to address the mid-scalp, but for now an upcoming engagement with the better half is keeping me busy and the diamond will ensure my HT fund is too low to afford that next pass anytime soon. 

Congrats man, that's a huge step in your life and I'm glad you've found a girl worthwhile. It's crazy how something like hair can make so much of a difference. Perhaps, not so much in our appearance, but in how we present ourselves to the world and how we communicate with others. Overall, I've gained a confidence I may have never had without surgery. 

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @htrestoration FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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