FUT is more popular than FUE

[tommygun]

That's a good read. I wish Dr L would post in this thread.

[Mickey85]

Thank you Dr Feller.

 

I bet all these naysayers don't even realise that Lorenzo, Erdogan...even Dr C in Atlanta are still performing FUT.

 

Errr are you 100% sure on this? Lorenzo and Erdogan are performing strip? I highly highly doubt and and will verify and will come back if this turns out to be misinformation.

[FUE2014]

Interesting to note from Dr L's website:

 

"One of the most vital aspects of this technique (FUE) is the quality of the units which are removed. We have found from our studies in previous years that the quality and strength of the grafts removed are better than those extracted by the strip method. The follicular units are much cleaner when removed one by one then by separating them under the microscope. This also helps to reduce wounding to the recipient area. Our surgeons have presented these studies in various seminars on hair transplants"

[Mickey85]

Interesting to note from Dr L's website:

 

"One of the most vital aspects of this technique (FUE) is the quality of the units which are removed. We have found from our studies in previous years that the quality and strength of the grafts removed are better than those extracted by the strip method. The follicular units are much cleaner when removed one by one then by separating them under the microscope. This also helps to reduce wounding to the recipient area. Our surgeons have presented these studies in various seminars on hair transplants"

 

That still won't stop surgeons from arbitrarily trying to dictate universal laws and 'facts' across all clinics

[CaliHairGuy]

There are some questionable things on Dr. L's site regarding FUT vs. FUE. One of the things he implies is that transaction rates for FUT are higher than FUE. I thought it was commonly accepted that FUT is superior in this area unless you're talking about a butcher of a surgeon. I'm not doubting Dr. L's ability as a surgeon, but the marketing guy definitely took some liberties with that copy.

[KO]

Indeed, in fact Dr. C*** from Atlanta also argues this and believes that you have more lifetime grafts via FUE. I am not one to dispute their findings. Would be great though if there was evidence for either side.

[Mickey85]

Indeed, in fact Dr. C*** from Atlanta also argues this and believes that you have more lifetime grafts via FUE. I am not one to dispute their findings. Would be great though if there was evidence for either side.

 

Agreed. But Dr C. has made many many outlandish claims about FUE and 'donor regeneration" that even I would not agree with. I wouldn't even use him as a source for proof simply because it would easily be discredited by his other claims(Acell mysteriously fabricating and regenerating follicles post FUE... at an extra cost to the patient of course..yeh...)...

[delancey]

What length do you estimate a person who had had a 10,000 MFUE procedure could keep his hair length at without the 550 MFUE scars being visible?

 

Did you see this question above? Thanks.

[HairJo]

Some doctors push for FUE because it costs more they will make more per graft plus a lot of them use their technicians or robots or whatever the so called latest way to get your money . Why not go to someone who really cares about your results a year from now and is telling you the truth. Someone that has done both procedures for many years and knows which plan is best for you . I would rather have one linear scar than look like a plucked chicken. If everyone is so set on shaving their heads then just go bald it's the same look why does everyone want a nice head of hair if they are going to shave it . Who would not grow their out to cover the scar that's the whole point you wanted thickness and fullness so style your hair to cover the scar . If you have a flaw you cover it up and there are many ways to do that with a linear scar . How can you cover thousands of little white FUE scars and how do you cover over harvested areas if you have a mega session. Plus now you have lost your density in a large majority of your head then you wont even be able to have an H/T down the road . I still believe if you choose fue start with a small session this way if it doesn't work for you you still have the option of having a strip.

[1978matt]

Hi Blake,

 

I believe that the aforementioned doctors do not promote strip for one reason and that is one of marketing. FUSS is still the goose that will lay a thousand golden eggs and it shall not be slain, and you can bet your bottom dollar that if some CEO or celebrity came into their clinic and said they could not shave their heads under any circumstances the doctors would be taking the dust covers off their spare microscopes and unwrapping the scalpels.

 

Not maintaining a FUSS capability is bad for business especially as it is a really useful tool to have in ones arsenal when performing transplants. They just do not care to tell us when or how often they do it as it because it is old hat and not s*xy anymore.

 

Unfortunately for someone like Dr E he cannot be seen to be 'the evil doctor in Turkey who does strips'. Why? Because he is in competition against 500 FUE technician led clinics. (We saw an example of the anti FUSS sentiment when Dr Karadeniz got criticised when he said he felt it was a better procedure for a lot of people).

 

Of course the marketing is such that these doctors get a lot of people who just want FUE and don't care for FUSS and can turn away people who want the latter. But lets say for example someone flew 10,000 miles to see them and they discovered on the day of surgery that the patient was not a good FUE candidate. I expect like any good doctor or businessman they would offer them either a)Cancellation without penalty or b)the option of having strip surgery.

 

Whether they take the b)option is a different story but it would be bad business to just send them away without giving them any options.

 

 

Keyser,

 

I didn't know you underwent FUE with that clinic.

 

Matt,

 

That's crazy if a few of these "FUE only" guys offer strip still in certain circumstances, Regardless, I agree with the spirit of what you're saying. I think if you got a few beers in these guys and really pressed them, they would tell you that pound-for-pound you're going to get the biggest "WOW" with strip.This is a similar scenario in which the "75%" number was thrown out by the FUE-only guy I mentioned before. Are there FUE surgeons who churn out good results? Absolutely. Are there some that do it more than others? Absolutely. Do I think these guys use some gimmicks when presenting these cases. AB-SO-LUTELY.

 

It's also interesting in a scenario like Dr E or Dr L above that in their current model, these guys would have a tough time consistently doing strip cases because they use technician extraction (IE technician FUE). I also think the bias coming from clinics with only the capability to offer FUE is always -- obviously -- going to be very strong.

 

Altogether, I'm most impressed by clinics who are great at both and offer both when appropriate. This is what I really want to strive for when I'm in practice full-time here pretty soon. Being able to offer those huge "WOW" H&W-esque cases on a Monday, then Tuesday sit down, focus, and do a seamless FUE case -- though I will be pursuing this, for the near future, via our mFUE technique. I think these are the types of clinics that really nail it.

[Mickey85]

Some doctors push for FUE because it costs more they will make more per graft plus a lot of them use their technicians or robots or whatever the so called latest way to get your money .

 

That may certainly be true for some surgeons but some doctors also push for strip simply because their FUE skills do not yield as good as their strip results or other surgeon's FUE results.

[Sethticles]

my thoughts before having my HT were this simple

 

FUE

plan A - full head of hair

plan B - didnt work gone bald - shave it off

 

FUT

plan A - full head of hair

plan B - didnt work gone bald - now look like worse than i did before

[Mickey85]

Neither Dr E or Dr L offer Strip. I have consulted with both clinics recently and any objective unbiased person would agree if they did their research unless they had some sort of agenda.

 

Anyone who is suggesting otherwise should really get their facts straight as some of these statements are are coming off as slander given the nature of this thread(s).

 

We haven't seen any FUE physicians respond to this recent barrage of pro FUT threads as it is assumed they don't need to dignify any response nor do they have the time.

 

Thank you!!! But you know, never let the truth get in the way of anything...

[HairJo]

If it takes such a skilled doctor to do FUE then why are the Technicians doing most of it and why are robots doing it ?? Are they the most skilled techs and the robots ???

[Mickey85]

If it takes such a skilled doctor to do FUE then why are the Technicians doing most of it and why are robots doing it ?? Are they the most skilled techs and the robots ???

 

Well with the 'robot'(I'm assuming you are talking about the ARTAS device), when it was revealed there was a claim that the transection rates were something like 3-5%(from memory may be slightly off). Some surgeons jumped on this device because of the claimed low transection rate and also because they would not have to take the many many hours to perfect FUE extraction by hand. Years later and we have seen some ARTAS results and most of which were sadly disappointing, many surgeons have gone back to either handheld motorized devices or manual punches.

 

Tech-assisted extractions are common place in Europe where I believe it is legal. Using a manual punch is very tiring on the hands especially if thousands of grafts are needed so punching duties are either delegated or shared between surgeon and techs. Some prefer a surgeon to do all the punching duties and I can certainly understand that but when you see an FUE result from Europe, chances are that techs were assisting in the punching/extraction phase. It is upto you to decide whether you place emphasis on whether the particular clinic puts out great results(regardless of techs assisting) or if you strictly want a surgeon to do all the punching.

 

Question everything. You can never do enough research. Don't ask one doctor, ask many. Don't just ask me, ask others. There is an abundance of information to be absorbed and what you will learn in 6 months will completely dwarf what you know now.

[KO]

If all a tech does is extract, day after day, for years, I bet he or she could become quite skilled. 10,000 hours. More important question is, how experienced and trained are the techs.

[delancey]

If it takes such a skilled doctor to do FUE then why are the Technicians doing most of it and why are robots doing it ?? Are they the most skilled techs and the robots ???

 

I would imagine that it takes a very skilled doctor in order to have a vision, understand the technique perfectly, train high qualified technicians, oversee the entire process, and execute the vision. Wouldn't you say?

[scar5]

 

It is simply a fact that FUT is still more popular than FUE...by far.

 

FUE has it's place, but NOT first place, and it never will.

 

Dr. Alan Feller

 

Making money is popular.

Going to court is not popular.

Having a long day bending your back is not popular

 

The only reason strip has not gone the way of the dinosaur is because of laws prohibiting tech extraction in the states.

 

All the rest is all baloney. That comes first.

 

The excuses do not come close to changing this - and they are familiar;

 

'great laxity', 'bang-for-buck', 'shot-gun blasts', 'hype', 'fibrotic scarring making subsequent procedures difficult', 'great hands', 'gold standard', 'ultra-refined' , " m'FUE'" and whatever else comes out of the strip marketing spout.

 

FUE has it's place!! Who said that? Who is the boss now?

 

Right now, there are tens of thousands of men walking around malls in North America with an empty crown, a clump of hair up front and an 'oh well' look on their face.

 

How does it bestow upon a man to get a line cut across the back of his head pop propecia and hope for the best.

 

No one suits strip...period, although I don't doubt the short term impact a good strip job can make for a front on pic. Just don't look sideways, like Dr. Feller did in his video.

 

FUE is now in first place...just the inertia of the people who are not willing to travel or don't know any better. Bless them.

[HairJo]

Thanks Mickey 85 very clear response

[ModernHair]

I don't have a dog in this fight and am always happy to see a great discussion about this issue (my brother and father both received strip FUT), but wow was Dr. Feller's post arrogant.

 

Talking about the issue of strip FUT vs FUE is one thing, but then taking the opportunity to insult nearly everybody else who isn't a doctor in his field, who may have various educated and intelligent opinions, is another. I am a professional with as many years of training as Dr. Feller (maybe more) and have an advanced doctorate, but I would never talk down to others like that in my field of practice who may not have my training and education. Who knows, maybe my Mom taught me better.

 

Anyway, good discussion (despite the rough start) but contrary to his opinions, I am a VERY happy FUE patient who received an absolutely outstanding FUE from Dr. Jim Harris in Colorado (who incidentally did bring new FUE extraction technologies to the field notwithstanding Dr. Feller's claim).

 

While I've had an outstanding start, I still have lots of growing to go but will gladly post pics when I am done growing out to show the immense success of FUE in the hands of a skilled doctor. I never even considered strip FUT - yield (which may be slightly better for strip FUT, but not by much) is not the only consideration for patients - scarring, more tension in your scalp, inability for very short hair, chances for complications, etc. are some of the many reasons people choose FUE over strip FUT today.

[Mickey85]

Thanks Mickey 85 very clear response

 

My pleasure HairJo. I have read your posts in the last few days and you seem very receptive and open minded. These are very positive traits to have whilst researching hair transplants and also in life. There have been many 'innovations' in the hair transplant world that have bee glorified by even elite surgeons, but sometimes when the dust settles, it is extremely clear that the claims were not completely truthful.

 

One thing that alot of patients who have failed hair transplants(FUE or strip, both can fail) is "I wish I researched more/waited a bit longer". It seems you have not yet had a hair transplant, use this time to inform yourself to the best of your ability because if it goes wrong, a part of you will be blaming yourself as I once blamed myself.

 

I used to have a line in my profile signature that I was "Pro-patient", I might try to get back to that... Or I might leave.. We shall see.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Making money is popular.

Going to court is not popular.

Having a long day bending your back is not popular

 

The only reason strip has not gone the way of the dinosaur is because of laws prohibiting tech extraction in the states.

 

All the rest is all baloney. That comes first.

 

The excuses do not come close to changing this - and they are familiar;

 

'great laxity', 'bang-for-buck', 'shot-gun blasts', 'hype', 'fibrotic scarring making subsequent procedures difficult', 'great hands', 'gold standard', 'ultra-refined' , " m'FUE'" and whatever else comes out of the strip marketing spout.

 

FUE has it's place!! Who said that? Who is the boss now?

 

 

Right now, there are tens of thousands of men walking around malls in North America with an empty crown, a clump of hair up front and an 'oh well' look on their face.

 

How does it bestow upon a man to get a line cut across the back of his head pop propecia and hope for the best.

 

No one suits strip...period, although I don't doubt the short term impact a good strip job can make for a front on pic. Just don't look sideways, like Dr. Feller did in his video.

 

FUE is now in first place...just the inertia of the people who are not willing to travel or don't know any better. Bless them.

 

 

FUE covers the crown better and in greater numbers than FUT ? News to me.

 

Your last demonstration of colossal ignorance wasn't enough, eh? So you've decided to grace us with yet another example:

 

"The only reason strip has not gone the way of the dinosaur is because of laws prohibiting tech extraction in the states."

 

Viewers of this site, clearly Scar5 (who refuses to stand in the light by using his real name) has made a very forceful claim. It sounds complete and irrefutable...but only to the uninformed and agenda driven. Here is reality:

 

There are really two major actions involved in performing FUE.

 

The first is SCORING around the target graft with a punch tool. This is not time consuming nor is it physically taxing after experience has been gained, but in the US it must be performed by a physician.

 

However, the second part known as DELIVERY is very very taxing, time consuming, and physically exhausting and it CAN be performed by technicians in the US. The reason for this is because in the former cutting is performed, in the latter it isn't.

 

So techs in the US can and do perform the DELIVERY aspect of FUE. My techs have been doing it for 14 years and are world class at it.

 

Strip techs make excellent FUE delivery techs because they are used to working at that scale and in huge numbers specifically with follicles. They know exactly what a graft SHOULD look like and are much more adept at filtering out injured or damaged grafts.

 

So another uninformed bit of fantasy invented to "explain" why FUE is not king in the US is destroyed. But the question does remain, why is FUE not so prominent in the US ? Maybe it's because the potential for medical malpractice lawsuits and causes for civil action are higher in the US ? (You can bet your last dollar they are.). Or perhaps US doctors hold themselves to higher standards?

 

Or is the premise even true? Is there more FUE than FUT in Europe, or is that just a false statement that has been repeated ad infinitum? Either way, what Scar5, one of the most egregious and shameless of the anonymous FUE chest thumpers wrote was, yet again, completely incorrect.

 

And before the inevitable drivel ensues in response, I invite EVERYONE to call their local FUE doctor to check out if what I wrote is not word for word absolutely true. Or I can do it for you. Give me a list and I will contact those doctors to ask them and post it right here for all to see in the bright light. I know that stings your eyes, Scar5.

[KO]

So Doctor, I will take you at your word that it is not taxing, especially with motorized punches, why do you charge $10/graft for FUE when Doctors like Lorenzo, Feriduni, and Bisanga are charging less.

 

Is it because you can move fewer grafts in one day vs FUT and the shortfall needs to be made up? Serious question.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

First, let me tell you that motorized punches really don't make the procedure easier, just faster, but at the cost of yield. And this if from a doctor who actually produced a commercial motorized FUE hand tool used on the market. But mine was truly unique and included novel features. The others are just drills. And still I decline to use it on most patients. My hand is better.

 

I can't speak for why others charge what they do. It is not my place. If their price structure works for them, then bless them. I happen to like and respect all the doctors in your list by they way.

[Mickey85]

I don't have a dog in this fight and am always happy to see a great discussion about this issue (my brother and father both received strip FUT), but wow was Dr. Feller's post arrogant.

 

Talking about the issue of strip FUT vs FUE is one thing, but then taking the opportunity to insult nearly everybody else who isn't a doctor in his field, who may have various educated and intelligent opinions, is another. I am a professional with as many years of training as Dr. Feller (maybe more) and have an advanced doctorate, but I would never talk down to others like that in my field of practice who may not have my training and education. Who knows, maybe my Mom taught me better.

 

Anyway, good discussion (despite the rough start) but contrary to his opinions, I am a VERY happy FUE patient who received an absolutely outstanding FUE from Dr. Jim Harris in Colorado (who incidentally did bring new FUE extraction technologies to the field notwithstanding Dr. Feller's claim).

 

While I've had an outstanding start, I still have lots of growing to go but will gladly post pics when I am done growing out to show the immense success of FUE in the hands of a skilled doctor. I never even considered strip FUT - yield (which may be slightly better for strip FUT, but not by much) is not the only consideration for patients - scarring, more tension in your scalp, inability for very short hair, chances for complications, etc. are some of the many reasons people choose FUE over strip FUT today.

 

Totally agree with you on all points.