Strip vs FUE vs mFUE - Dr. Alan Feller Great Neck, NY

[Mickey85]

Regarding Lorenzo showing great hair volume on his HTs - it is true, his results look great, but let's look at the typical characteristics of his showcase patients. They seem to be fairly high NWs, with a good amount of MFUs, and typically with a hair shaft diameter of 60 microns. I think forum members underestimate the power of great characteristics, which are the main variable in an HT result, not the surgeon. A patient with 60 mic hair is going to have >40% volume for every hair transplanted, compared to a patient with a more average 50 mic hair. If you have fine hair, say 45 mic, the difference is going to be more than 70% in terms of hair volume! Doubling hair diameter quadruples hair volume, it is staggering really.

 

So if Lorenzo had a portfolio of patients of high NWs and fine/average hair, his results would be significantly less impressive.

 

Whilst that could be true, would that not also apply to strip results? Also has very little to do with the actual yield he manages to produce which is considered very high by most people. Also does not negate that Bisanga/Feriduni/Erdogan/Hakan/De Reys/Mwamba/Reddy etc manage to put out great yielding FUE on patients of all hair calibers.

[hairthere]

"However, where our views do carry as much weight as the docs, or anyone for that matter, is from the results published online. Everything else being equal, this is what we are left with. Results. And my opinion on results, from what I observe online, is as valid as anyone else's."

 

The problem with judging the merits of one surgery type versus another based on online results is that we are simply looking at a small sample size. And the ones presented by clinics will obviously be, most of the time, what they consider their best work.

[KO]

Whilst that could be true, would that not also apply to strip results? Also has very little to do with the actual yield he manages to produce which is considered very high by most people. Also does not negate that Bisanga/Feriduni/Erdogan/Hakan/De Reys/Mwamba/Reddy etc manage to put out great yielding FUE on patients of all hair calibers.

 

But are there any strip surgeons that consistently showcase patients with ideal hair characteristics? Feller, Gabel, Shapiro?

 

I think you will agree that the doctors you mention are not in the same class as L in providing volume. Nor do I believe that all of them have shown consistency in providing good density to NW>4. Especially De Reys and Reddy! Bisanga prefers FUT if you need a lot of grafts or have below average density. Feriduni seems to also favor FUT for patients with high graft needs. Erdogan and Hakan, i think we will leave for another day.....but do note that many of their showcase guys have really good characteristics, especially Hakan.

[Mickey85]

But are there any strip surgeons that consistently showcase patients with ideal hair characteristics? Feller, Gabel, Shapiro?

 

I think you will agree that the doctors you mention are not in the same class as L in providing volume. Nor do I believe that all of them have shown consistency in providing good density to NW>4. Especially De Reys and Reddy! Bisanga prefers FUT if you need a lot of grafts or have below average density. Feriduni seems to also favor FUT for patients with high graft needs. Erdogan and Hakan, i think we will leave for another day.....but do note that many of their showcase guys have really good characteristics, especially Hakan.

 

I think Dr Lorenzo gets the best yield in FUE but Erdogan, Bisanga, Feriduni etc are a hair behind. De Reys is very conservative by choice whilst Reddy is a bit less conservative. I find those surgeons FUE yields to be on the high side. Feriduni is quite flexible on guys who are a higher norwood(see MBPsucks) especially if they are younger, he will usually decline strip. I did think Bisanga was very cautious on offering FUE to higher norwoods but he had no problem operating on Stinger99 so that might have change.

 

All clinics showcase the best possible results they can. That goes for Lorenzo, Feller, Gabel, Konior etc. The debate at large is whether or not FUE is vastly inferior to strip in terms of actual growth yield. There are large amounts of cases where the yield has been consistently high. Sure it may not be 95% yield(strip might not be either) and sure it might not be 100% of the time(also applies to strip). Just look up Bisanga's FUE cases. Look up Erdogan's. Look up Feriduni's. Reddy's etc. They have been posting successful FUE cases for a long time and at a higher frequency than ALOT of strip clinics. There have been many great FUE cases to show that they are not rarities unlike some claim.

 

Again I have no problem if you believe the best FUE yield to be 5-10% less than that of the best strip. But when people come and say blanket statements like "good FUE yield is an exception, not a rule"(I know you didnt say this), I have to speak up. If I go to Dr X, I might get a great FUE yield but if I go to Dr Y I may get poor FUE yield. Same with strip.

[KO]

Take a look at cueball35s results. Does Feriduni's have any cases where he did a high NW with that density with FUE? Again, I'm not saying that FUE is not a good option, I've seen the same cases you have, and I agree, it is. Your point would have been controversial in 2006-09, not today.

[Mickey85]

Take a look at cueball35s results. Does Feriduni's have any cases where he did a high NW with that density with FUE?

 

Will check it out.From memory Cueball got a great first result but never saw the final second. Will get back to you.

[1978matt]

 

Tell you what, why don't you PM me your real name and phone number. Then I can make a three way call between you, me, and Dr. Lorenzo and you can hear first hand what he has to say about the subject. He may not care for you speaking in his name and I'd be curious to see if he supports the positions you have been advocating on this site in his name. After that, we can call ANY other doctor you wish at my expense and have the same discussion. Then you can post it here.

 

 

 

Thank you Dr Feller for calling his bluff. Somehow I don't think he will be accepting your gracious invitation!

[1978matt]

I don't know how anyone can claim Dr L, or any other doctor, gets the best 'yield' from FUE. What we have seen is about 5% of his entire lifetime work (assuming he has performed around 5000 procedures). Assuming it is approximately 5% of his procedures, about 80% (of the 5%) are hand picked 'best results' posted by his clinic with a further 20% posted by patients themselves. So on that basis about 1% of his results online (20% of 5%, i.e. 1% of his entire life's work) is the only available and random and average representation of his work. Even then we are reliant on patients presenting good clear before and after photos - not always the case.

 

The other 95% of his behind the scenes work may have yielded less than 60% for all we know! Not saying it does but no one can lay claim to know unless they work in his clinic.

 

To make the yield claims even more perverse the majority of his clinic posted cases feature, as KO rightly says, patients with above average donor areas, donor areas that typically feature two or more of the following:

 

 

• 
  
• Large donor surface area, i.e. stable hair that allows extractions to be spread out
  
• Average to well above average donor density
  
• Coarse hair shaft diameter (/Caliber)
  

 

A while ago I looked at about 20 of his results on youtube and paused and compared the backs of the patients heads. It is very telling indeed and would urge others to do the same and ask yourself: Is my donor hair as good as that? Am I going to progress beyond NW4?

 

If the answer is no and yes and you want to stay the least bald for the rest of your life then starting with FUE might not be in your best interests.

 

People can criticise Dr Feller all they want but he has actually carried out the procedure and seen the results thousands of times, good and bad. Who do want to believe, an anonymous poster or Dr Feller?

 

It's a no-brainer.

[LondonHTseeker]

I think Dr Lorenzo gets the best yield in FUE but Erdogan, Bisanga, Feriduni etc are a hair behind.

 

Lol. How did you work that out, did you count the hairs?

[LondonHTseeker]

 

Tell you what, why don't you PM me your real name and phone number. Then I can make a three way call between you, me, and Dr. Lorenzo and you can hear first hand what he has to say about the subject. He may not care for you speaking in his name and I'd be curious to see if he supports the positions you have been advocating on this site in his name. After that, we can call ANY other doctor you wish at my expense and have the same discussion. Then you can post it here.

 

 

 

 

Can you make the other doctor Dr Terry Dubrow, I'm sure he'd love to be counselled on solving his baldness:

 

[HairJo]

Dr. Feller has been in this field doing both Fue and Strip for years I think he knows what he's talking about from the thousands of cases he must have under his belt. I think he's honest and offers his patients the best options if he told me Strip was best for me then I would think he would have my best interest in mind for now and down the road

[hairweare]

Dr. Feller,

I never claimed to speak for Dr. Lorenzo or any other physician other than myself. Lets's make it clear that my opinions are strictly my own. I am merely one of his many satisfied FUE patients and just happen to have a medical background as well as being a veteran of 3 earlier strip procedures. Again, you are the one who claims to speak for others and then resorted to the hyperbole of a conference call to prove that absurdity.

 

For the record Dr. Feller I understand that you graduated from Osteopathic school in 1993 but I don't recall you mentioning where you received your post graduate training or what AOA or ABIM board certification you have. Do you care to share this information as it is missing from your website where you do provide so much other self promotional information? I would be more than happy to provide my medical, research and University faculty information with anyone who wishes to inquire.

[HairJo]

I don't know of any doctors who went to college for HT surgery so to discredit Dr. Feller is just wrong.

[Blake Bloxham]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

 

"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments. When used inappropriately, it is a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized"

[hairweare]

Sorry Blake but a non sequitur. Was it not fair to ask you how many 1500-2000 graft FUE cases that have performed because you repeatedly claim that it is much less taxing than a shift in the ED? Still waiting but hearing nothing but crickets. How about providing us with the p value of the Wesley study that you keep referring to. Was bias and confounding variables also addressed in the conclusions?

 

A physician's educational and training credentials should be a legitimate question for any patient subjecting himself to a procedure. If there is nothing to hide why not include it on ones Bio? Does a patient not have the right to ask or to get an honest answer?

Edited June 9, 2015 by hairweare

[keyser-soze]

I have said it before and i will say it again Blake you should resign your moderator position imediately. Why ?

Your bias for one type of technique over another has been clear for some time now but that is not the issue we all having our prefared technique.

The job of moderating is to be impartial and keep the ball rolling in a fair and polite manner for all involved in the disscussion.

A few points i will raise so correct me if i'm wrong.

1- you have been working with dr feller for about 18 months ?

2-you have been working on mfue for about 18 months?

3-dr feller had been off this forum for approx one year and before that was absent for the previous 6 months so he has basically had two bouts of posting on this forum in 18 months.

Dr fellers latest posts started once you had already announced mfue ?

Dr feller and you both say you like fue but knock it at every oppotunity now you can say this is incorrect and reafirm you like fue but everyone reading the posts from both of you can see what i am saying is correct.

The argument over fuss v fue will linger for the forseeable future till something better comes along.

Enter mfue a rehashed technique previously tried and dissmissed.

What have you shown of this 18 month period you have been doing this by the way of donor area shaved down photos? non

Recipient area grown out results? non

You cannot even tell us the size of the punchs used.

You pick and choose which posted questions to reply to instead of answering each and every question WHY IS THAT?

A guy sarts a thread saying he is worried for his health after a fue op and dr feller seizes the oppotunity to do a video attacking fue mega sessions with this cutting off blood supply line-the guy had 3500 grafts but we regulary see numbers way above this and have we ever seen a problem of lack of blood supply on the forum because of it? i have'nt

Turns out the guy had smp into his STRIP SCAR 3 days post op.

His problem was not down to lack of blood supply because of a fue mega session but down to his desperation to hide his STRIP SCAR.

Fuss guys backing strip- fue guys arguing for the merits of fue all fai enough but blake and dr feller you IMO have come out of all this with far less respect well from myself and a lot of other readers.

Dr Feller more people go for fuss? really? even blakes best buddie ko concedes fue is more popular maybe not in the US but in europe and especially turkey it is and if you think otherwise your dreaming.

Who are the most respecting ht fue surgeons in the world in regard to results? Where are they in the states or europe and turkey? We all know the answer. We see the results and we choose our drs based on the results and thats why people are flying from the states to turkey or europe its that simple they cannot get what they want in the US and its fue.

What would 3000 fue cost at feller and bloxham?

They are PAYING CUSTOMERS and you wont give them what they want FUE.

[wazaam]

"What would 3000 fue cost at feller and bloxham?

"They are PAYING CUSTOMERS and you wont give them what they want FUE"

 

A 3000 FUE graft procedure with Dr Feller would cost $30,000.00 ($10/graft) according to his website.

 

Based of that pricing alone I can't imagine a bunch of potential patients who are well informed lining up for an FUE procedure with Dr. Feller.

 

Even if one (potential patient) had the choice in procedures to choose from Dr. Feller stated on his video "it isn't a patients choice at his clinic you aren't ordering off a menu" who would pay these type of prices?

 

The pricing structure makes no sense in my opinion and there are clearly much better FUE (U.S. & abroad) surgeons to choose from, even if these costs were reasonable.

[keyser-soze]

For around $20.000 you would get 6000 grafts and far better results going with lorenzo.

I wonder why dr feller and blake are taking the stances they are?

So for dr fellers price for 3000 grafts if it were possible you would get roughly 9000 grafts with lorenzo.

Its a no brainer isnt it?

Erdogan is roughly the same price i think as lorenzo

[ontop]

II think Dr Erdogan charges less than DrLorenzo not by much though I think.

But IMO Dr Lonenzo goes OTT with grafts maybe its cas he dense pack in all areas maybe.

 

For me the Dr leading the pack in the USA for FUE got to be Dr Vories he be around a while. & another dark horse on the west coast Dr Deip a little pricey to Vories but his results are on par with Turks.

 

Again this new method call it what you want but I feel there is more questions than answers & IMO this so called teaser was a bad idea because I don't think the answers are there yet & prob won't be for at least another 12mths or so esp to see more than 1500 grafts which on the scale of things is not a big surgery like the 3K 4K mega stuff.

 

Only time will tell...

 

Blake please. Could you answer my questions I posted several times also how much would this new method cost any prices available yet?

[Blake Bloxham]

Nope! The economics example was done @ $5 per FUE graft compared to high end strip pricing and @2k grafts a day. Both very realistic numbers. FUE still made $1,500 more for the clinic. Again, these are objective facts.

 

And, again, the technician argument is moot as well. People have been doing it in NA for years. There have been tons of examples presented here. It is absolutely not exclusive to Europe. But there is obviously a reason it hasn't taken over.

[KO]

I have said it before and i will say it again Blake you should resign your moderator position imediately. Why ?

 

They are PAYING CUSTOMERS and you wont give them what they want FUE.

 

Fascinating how this guy is filled with so much hate towards these guys, who have done nothing wrong. This techniquek,you can call it mFUE, mSTRIP, or mGTFO should be judged by its results and only its results, not what anonymous members on a forum think.

 

 

If keyser wants REAL FUE! Go find another doctor. Or maybe he is desparate?

[BaldingBogger]

Lorenzo work

 

Blake you know better than to cite a single operator study with only a handful size cohort and call that settled science.

 

A very valid point in which I mentioned earlier. The entire angle and trajectory of this latest attempt to discredit the FUE technique .

 

Is merely based on one Dr's study who to be fair would not be near the top of anyone's list for a HT.

 

I think most right minded people can read through the smoke screens being created. I would really implore any prospective patients to not just view results online but to meet ex patients offline to see the reality of HT results.

 

There is far too much agendas and vested interests online for the prospective new patient.

[HairJo]

I agree the patient has many options to look into and if FUE is what he has decided on and he has been informed of the pros and cons, but what if the doctor just wants to do a do a great job and he feels HT will be the best for the patient . If a doctor feels FUE is wrong for the patient even if the patient is dead set on having one wouldn't that show you that your doctor just wants what he thinks is best for the patient and not just seeing dollar signs. To me it shows the doctor has the right to tell the patient what procedure he would think is best it's always up to the patient when it comes down to it. Why wouldn't all doctors recommend FUE they sure would make a lot more money if they weren't concerned about the outcome in a year when the patient comes back with his final results

[keyser-soze]

Blake is it correct feller and bloxham charge $10 per fue graft ?

If it is then with F&B 6000 fue would be $60.000 correct?

With lorenzo 6000 fue $20.000

So a third of the price these are unreputable facts.

We are talking about cost to the patient not what is most profitable for clinic.

Its a no brainer probably the most highly regarded fue doc is a third of your price for 6000 fue but tell me why is it people are going to europe.turkey.india ect ect?

[Dr. Alan Feller]

HairJo,

You are correct. Final results of the recipient area is everything. Nothing gives the best chance of the greatest growth than strip procedure. If FUE gave the best chance of growth I would offer that procedure to all patients all the time, but it doesn't. Strip FUT does.