Bill - Seemiller Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 Future_HT_Doc, I appreciate you sharing your input and concerns with us. While future hair loss can never be 100% predicted, as long as Dr. Keser is appropriately planning for a patient's short and long term best interest and providing quality and realistic FUE, I think he'll make a good fit in our community. However, in the interest of being thorough, I've asked Dr. Keser's associate to present a few additional examples of his work; some surgical photos showing typical donor extractions within the safe zone and some examples showing work performed on higher Norwood levels. That said, remember that Dr. Keser typically only performs sessions on patients up to a Norwood 4, so I'm not sure how many examples he has demonstrating these. I've also asked Dr. Keser to address whether or not he refers patients not elligible for FUE work to a particular clinic or just encourages them to research and select a quality FUT physician. However, regardless of whether or not he makes a referral, it's the patient who ultimately has to decide on a surgeon. In my opinion, those in Turkey would also be wise to consider recommended physician Dr. Kulahci who does stellar FUT work. The type of hair transplant procedures a physician performs are listed on each physician's recommendation profile. Thus, patients who find Dr. Keser by using our community if he's approved for recommendation will know that he only performs FUE. I look forward to any additional input from anyone. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Blake Bloxham Posted March 3, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted March 3, 2010 Originally posted by Bill - Managing Publisher:Future_HT_Doc, I appreciate you sharing your input and concerns with us. While future hair loss can never be 100% predicted, as long as Dr. Keser is appropriately planning for a patient's short and long term best interest and providing quality and realistic FUE, I think he'll make a good fit in our community. However, in the interest of being thorough, I've asked Dr. Keser's associate to present a few additional examples of his work; some surgical photos showing typical donor extractions within the safe zone and some examples showing work performed on higher Norwood levels. That said, remember that Dr. Keser typically only performs sessions on patients up to a Norwood 4, so I'm not sure how many examples he has demonstrating these. I've also asked Dr. Keser to address whether or not he refers patients not elligible for FUE work to a particular clinic or just encourages them to research and select a quality FUT physician. However, regardless of whether or not he makes a referral, it's the patient who ultimately has to decide on a surgeon. In my opinion, those in Turkey would also be wise to consider recommended physician Dr. Kulahci who does stellar FUT work. The type of hair transplant procedures a physician performs are listed on each physician's recommendation profile. Thus, patients who find Dr. Keser by using our community if he's approved for recommendation will know that he only performs FUE. I look forward to any additional input from anyone. Best wishes, Bill Bill ... This sounds excellent and I applaud your dedication to the hair transplant community! I also agree that Dr Keser will make a very nice addition to the community, and it is very exciting to see HTN recommending an exclusive FUE surgeon. Can't wait to see what the future holds. Again, thank you for taking my (and others) input seriously - I know it really adds authenticity to the site, and I greatly appreciate it. I look forward to the new, higher NW cases which will be presented! - Future HT "Doc" Blake Bloxham - formerly "Future_HT_Doc" Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum All opinions are my own and my advice does not constitute as medical advice. All medical questions and concerns should be addressed by a personal physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Khan78 Posted March 3, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 3, 2010 Hello, Many of the NW5-7 patients who visit us and have watched our videos and photos expect that we do transform them into NW1-2. These people are not enough informed and thus they do not know how to proceed. A patient who lingers in forums like this and really concern himself with this theme knows to which FUT Surgeon he can go or not. As already mentioned most of our high NW's are not enough informed though and need our honest opinion/advice and help. For such patients we advice the following FUT surgeons ( FUT-Megasessions) : 1: Transmed Turkey ( personal contact ) 2: Dr.Pathomvanich Thailand ( Because of this reason I visited him in January 2010 and the discussion is going on) 3: H&W ,Hattingenhair Germany,Rahal, Saphiro, Feller etc. (no contacts to this clinics) Our goal is not to sell FUE, we understand that for some patients a combination could bring the needed effect and helps more rather than FUE alone. Its very important for us that the patients go to a good FUT address because if the patient should come to us after the FUT, a very good done FUT helps us to do a simplified excellent FUE. Our notion is that the industry should understand a cooperation among each other could help a lot. A surgeon who not only sells but also attach great importance to good work will have always success. Those who wants to earn money quickly would fall by the wayside early or later. And forums like this helps to find out the right surgeons. For Dr.Keser its absolutely not important whether he gains patients through this forum or not. For us its important to be in a platform where the best surgeons stay and where their work can be shown. About ethic questions can be always argued.We experience cases which does not go out of one's head. Parents with their 23-25 years old Sons,who do not want to go to the university and are ashamed of hair fall visit us. Cases of young patients who threaten to commit suicide if they do not get help. Cases where psychotherapy did not help anything because of the fact that the community only accepts good looks. Is it ethical to help such people or is it ethical to reject them? As some one who had thinning hair at the age of 22 and had 2 Op's behind at the age of 32, I know how these people feel like to lose hair in their prime. Thus such advices and suggestions are absolutely honest and faithful. Its possible to help most of them using today's available possibilities like medicines, FUT, FUE, BHT. But its important to reach to the right hand and to get explained correctly and clearly. Photos and reports of patients will follow ---------- Manager Derma-Plast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Creative79 Posted March 4, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 4, 2010 Hello Khan78, Thank you for your detailed responses to most of the questions raised here. You have not, however, addressed the issue of harvesting grafts from beard. I am almost a NW 6 and would like to go through the HT procedure for once only. I have a full grown beard the hair of which are much better than the hair on my head. Would Dr Keser be able to extract at least around 5000 grafts from both my head and beard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Khan78 Posted March 4, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 4, 2010 Hello Creative79, Dr.Keser doesn't offer BHT any more. Maybe he will do it in the future again. Regards ---------- Manager Derma-Plast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member wanthair7 Posted March 6, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 6, 2010 Hello Khan, i have recently contacted your clinic and the Dr have estimated 2500 to aim my goals , but when i wanted to book with them the patient advisor of Dr.Keser (yhe person i have contact with) is not responding to my emails ... you can do something to fix the probleme please ? sorry for my bad english Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share Posted March 7, 2010 Guys, Dr. Keser's clinic has posted another surgical album showing the donor area after extraction. For your review, please see: 2000 FUE grafts with Dr. Keser after Surgery Your input is encouraged. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Khan78 Posted March 7, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 7, 2010 Hello Wanthair7, We are little bit overbooked with the appointments and try to find some free dates in the next months. Thank you for your understanding. Regards ---------- Manager Derma-Plast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Members, Thank you for your thoughtful and candid feedback on potentially recommending Dr. Keser on the Hair Transplant Network. The feedback we received so far has been relatively mixed. While Dr. Keser's results look great from what's been presented, there's been several reported concerns regarding donor extractions taken from unsafe areas and long term strategic planning. Dr. Keser's clinic did present one example recently showing extractions taken from safer areas. However, in the interest of being thorough, this community will wait to see enough evidence countering these concerns before we proceed with formally recommending him. Best Regards. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TC17 Posted March 9, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted March 9, 2010 For what it's worth, I wholeheartedly support a wait and see approach, Bill. The most recent photo showing donor extractions failed to impress me. The area seemed to have been thinned to a far greater degree than what I see in other cases, and some grafts still seemed to have been taken outside the universal safe zone. Also, I know Dr. Keser said he won't usually perform surgery on a NW 5+, but every patient of his that I can remember seeing was quite young, and could very easily turn into a NW 5+. Common sense dictates that it's safer to perform a surgery on an already established NW 5+ because the patient's final balding pattern should be ascertainable, so I still struggle understanding his rationale. Last, Dr. Keser sure seems to be using a lot of grafts for his results. Admittedly, the results we've seen are outstanding, but with donor supply finite, I would prefer to see him getting his results with using less grafts. I know that it wouldn't be entirely possible to do so, but by angling grafts and creating shingling effects, it is possible for a skilled surgeon to make things appear thicker than they are. Just my thoughts, and it's not meant to bash Dr. Keser. If those concerns of mine are ever alleviated, I would certainly consider him for a surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Khan78 Posted March 9, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 9, 2010 Hello, TC17, in which case you think Dr.Keser used a lot of grafts for his result? can you show us one of them? Do you think a patient with the age of 30 is to young for a surgery and we should wait until he is a NW5+ for performing FUE ? How you will know the final balding pattern on a patient? ---------- Manager Derma-Plast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Blake Bloxham Posted March 9, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted March 9, 2010 Bill, Like TC, I think this is a wise approach. "Doc" Blake Bloxham - formerly "Future_HT_Doc" Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum All opinions are my own and my advice does not constitute as medical advice. All medical questions and concerns should be addressed by a personal physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Khan, "How you will know the final balding pattern on a patient?" I know you intended the above is a rhetorical question, but this is exactly the heart of the community's concerns which I happen to share. The truth is, nobody, not even Dr. Keser can know with 100% certainty the final balding pattern of the patient. This is why it's imperative that extractions are made from within the safe zone in the majority of patients, especially young ones who are at greater risk for developing advanced balding patterns in the future. I hope you'll take the above criticism constructively and begin to provide solid evidence that donor area extractions outside the universal safe zone and lower youthful looking hairlines on young patients are indeed the exception like you said and not the norm. Once we see enough evidence countering the above concerns, we can approve Dr. Keser for recommendation. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Khan78 Posted March 10, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 10, 2010 Bill, I accept constructive criticism, the only way to get further. But what I can not accept are allegations like this : ''it's safer to perform a surgery on an already established NW 5+ because the patient's final balding pattern should be ascertainable '' or : ''Last, Dr. Keser sure seems to be using a lot of grafts for his results'' therefore, please show me one of this cases you mean with a lot of grafts ! Thanks ---------- Manager Derma-Plast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TC17 Posted March 10, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted March 10, 2010 I don't even think a response to why it's safer to perform a surgery on a patient whose pattern is already established is necessary, it's common sense. Regarding the number of grafts being used, you guys have presented roughly a handful of results so far, and all but one have been nearly identical. A man, in his 20's or 30's, with minimal balding, gets his hairline lowered and his temples closed in. The results look great, but grafts seem to be taken out of the universal safe zone, and a lot of grafts seem to be getting used to get these great results. Assuming we accept the position of your clinic that 6,000 grafts can be taken using FUE only, wouldn't it stand to reason that 2,000 would be reserved for the frontal 1/3rd, 2,000 for the second 1/3rd, and the remaining 2,000 for the final 1/3rd of the scalp? I'm seeing 2,000 used in an area that appears to more than an inch deep! Not to mention, I am assuming that 6,000 can be taken safely, which is contrary to what most recommended physicians on this site claim. If it's only 3,500 or 4,000 grafts available, then the patient is SOL. I'm not trying to denigrate Dr. Keser or his clinic, but for the past few weeks we've been hearing promises about more results that will show safe donor extractions and non youthful hairlines, and yet we none have been presented, why? http://hair-restoration-info.c...=885106284#885106284 - 2,800 grafts in a VERY small area on a repair patient http://hair-restoration-info.c...=848104893#848104893 - 2,000 grafts in a VERY small area http://hair-restoration-info.c...21087683/m/247103944 - 2,000 grafts in a larger area, but the hairline is still low and flat. admittedly, the hairline looks GREAT, but if this patient ever loses his crown, or thins behind his hairline, he will look absurd with such a youthful hairline. http://hair-restoration-info.c...=133104893#133104893 - again, 1,900 grafts and they all went to the hairline exclusively. http://hair-restoration-info.c...=199104893#199104893 - no immediate post op pics, but the patient had a better head of hair before surgery than 95% of posters on this site. because of that, it's difficult to appreciate the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Anouar Posted March 10, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted March 10, 2010 I personally don't think these are a lot grafts being used. I've seen recommended strip docs use more grafts in particular cases like these to obtain higher densities and they never get flack for it. Look at stripped for example who got 2792 from Rahal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Khan78 Posted March 10, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 10, 2010 and yet we none have been presented, why? because we want that the patient himself post his pictures and his report. Common sense? That is absolutely clear that a NW5 pattern is already established. But should we only take NW5-6 cases for FUE? it's this common sense? We assess each family hairloss situation and whether he takes medicine or not. The cases that were shown here, are those taking the medication or start to take it and have no high NW's in their family. 50% of the patient requests, we reject because these conditions are not met. Thanks for the links , but you have to understand that these cases are Hairline cases with dense packing. And of corse you will need for a 70 grafts/cm2 hairline more grafts than for a 40 grafts/cm2 hairline. Common sense? ---------- Manager Derma-Plast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Thanks for the links , but you have to understand that these cases are Hairline cases with dense packing. And of corse you will need for a 70 grafts/cm2 hairline more grafts than for a 40 grafts/cm2 hairline. Common sense? Khan, I understand that you don't necessarily agree with everything that's being said and that's fine. People have varying opinions on the approach to hair restoraiton. However, the above statement is part of what I personally have concerns about. Why would you densely pack 70 FU/cm2 into a youthful looking hairline of a young patient when the potential for advanced balding is still great? In my opinion, it would be a whole lot better to create a slightly more mature hairline with 40 to 50 FU/cm2 leaving a lot more available donor hair in the event of future loss. I realize that many young patients want super densely packed hairlines. And while this sounds great short term, it's not always in a patient's long term best interest. Now in the event 10 more years go by and the patient doesn't have any or minimal additional loss, you can always provide a second session to lower the patient's hairline and add more density if the patient still wants it. But if the patient does lose a lot more hair, in my opinion, these grafts are more appropriately used to provide coverage in new balding areas. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 One more thing Khan, You said that taking hair extractions outside the universal safe zone and dense packing youthful hairlines are the exception rather than the rule. If this is true, I assume you have more conservative examples you can show us? These are the cases we need to see in order to proceed with Dr. Keser's potential recommendaiton. It's great that Dr. Keser can provide dense packing when appropriate for the patient and seems to be producing excellent results. However, we need to see more evidence that Dr. Keser is carefully planning for each patient's long term best interest. Thanks for understanding, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member paddy Posted March 10, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 10, 2010 I personally dont think alot of graphs are used to achieve these results.Thats one of the first things i was drawn to when viewing his results along with excellent yield however hairline design is way to low and nearly identical on every patient.Some of the patients in examples shown are destined for future hairloss and for this reason a more conservative approach should be taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growing gear Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I agree with Anour and Paddy that i do not believe too many grafts are taken for the results so far. IMO i think Rahal, H & W and other desnsity packing doctors use more grafts using strip for similar hair loss results. Although FUE is suppose to yield less, I think Dr Keser perfoms FUE exceptionally well in comparison to other FUE doctors. However, i also agree with Bill that donor extraction needs to be taken more care of and thus Derma-Plast should produce a few more results to adress this particular concern in order to associate theirself with this community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Growing Gear, I happen to agree that Dr. Keser appears to be doing exceptional FUE work. His results aren't in question as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully Khan can provide several examples of safe donor extractions and more conservative hairlines in young patients and we can proceed with his recommendation. All the Best, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member gentel_man83 Posted March 11, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted March 11, 2010 well if we want to compare between Dr.Keser and Dr.Melike who will be the better choice for FUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growing gear Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 gentel_man83, Although Dr Melike is recommended here, IMO Transmed hardly have any decent FUE examples. Ive done some search and it looks like they even have some complaints which were dealt with struggle. Dr Keser has produced super FUE results in a short space of time since they started participating here, which is good so far. And, if they produced further results showing the correct donor extraction then it looks like they will be recommended on this board. some people here are actually waiting here for Dr Keser as his results and price equate extremely competitive. I have actually decided to have a surgery with him in the near future. So to sum up i would definitely choose Dr Keser over Dr Melike once Dr Keser is officially recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 Although Dr Melike is recommended here, IMO Transmed hardly have any decent FUE examples. Ive done some search and it looks like they even have some complaints which were dealt with struggle. Growing Gear, I just want to clarify that the only complaint regarding Dr. Kulahci had nothing to do with growth, but miscommunication on goals of the initial procedure. The other reported concerns were about other physicians at Transmed. Only Dr. Kulahci from Transmed is recommended on the Hair Transplant Network. That said, while she's been showing excellent examples of FUT work, I haven't seen much of her FUE procedure. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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