Dr Feriduni 9 month update 2200 FUE

[HairJo]

Id give that person my sympathies but poor growth can occur in either procedure, not every single FUT is a stunning success, the choice of surgeon is important, by Dr. Fellers own admission his first FUT had poor growth, does poor growth occur in FUE yea of course, but poor growth also occurs with FUT, however the insult to injury with FUT is a scar from ear to ear.

 

The scars I have seen are very good. I must say though if you don't choose wisely then yes the scar can be bad but in most cases the guys just let the crown and back grow longer and it still covers even a bad scar unless of coarse you buzz your head but I say if you look good buzzed then just be bald that means you look good and have a good shaped head and features to pull it off.

[Melvin- Admin]

10 years is a long long long time. I'd like to tap into your knowledge and experience. In your opinion, who are the top few FUE surgeons,and who are the top FUT surgeons? In your opinion of course - besides the Stig of course

 

FUT H&W, rahal, konoir, Scott Alexander

FUE Dr. Lorenzo, Dr. Erdogan, Dr. Doganay

Both procedures I pick Dr. Diep

Body hair Dr. Umar

 

But just because a particular physician isn't as known doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a bad result, important things to consider is before and after videos, does the physician do only hair restoration or does he have a plastic surgery practice, it's best to stick with physicians that focus on hair and are doing hair transplants daily.

[Stig]

FUT H&W, rahal, konoir, Scott Alexander

FUE Dr. Lorenzo, Dr. Erdogan, Dr. Doganay

Both procedures I pick Dr. Diep

Body hair Dr. Umar

 

But just because a particular physician isn't as known doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a bad result, important things to consider is before and after videos, does the physician do only hair restoration or does he have a plastic surgery practice, it's best to stick with physicians that focus on hair and are doing hair transplants daily.

 

Very solid list - re-assuring how the same names always keep coming up. Not a Shapiro or Feriduni fan though huh?

 

Thats the 2nd time in the last week that Alexander's name came up. Feller also called him out. He was never on my radar before, I'll have to check him out

[ezel]

Haven't read this thread in some time. Life got crazy and my wife and I had our first baby. Just reading through where someone said had I had the info de feller presented I would have gone the fue route. Unbeknownst to dr feller maybe I do believe I actually sent some pics to him a few years back. I wanted to go the fue route and I was in touch with spex army consultant. He said to talk to dr Lindsey as he did do larger fue cases. Dr Lindsay actually turned me down for fue. He recommended FUT. I did book a procedure but in the end cancelled it as I was applying to post doc programs to potentially specialize in endodontics(I'm a dentist ). I lost the deposits but moved on. Fast forward a few years and spex put me in touch with dr feriduni and the rest is history. This thread has gone a very different route then what it was originally dealing with but the info seems good and I hope it helps others. Maybe I should have listened to dr feller and Lindsay as they both said fut. Who knows!!! One can't live in the past is all I can say

[Mickey85]

Haven't read this thread in some time. Life got crazy and my wife and I had our first baby. Just reading through where someone said had I had the info de feller presented I would have gone the fue route. Unbeknownst to dr feller maybe I do believe I actually sent some pics to him a few years back. I wanted to go the fue route and I was in touch with spex army consultant. He said to talk to dr Lindsey as he did do larger fue cases. Dr Lindsay actually turned me down for fue. He recommended FUT. I did book a procedure but in the end cancelled it as I was applying to post doc programs to potentially specialize in endodontics(I'm a dentist ). I lost the deposits but moved on. Fast forward a few years and spex put me in touch with dr feriduni and the rest is history. This thread has gone a very different route then what it was originally dealing with but the info seems good and I hope it helps others. Maybe I should have listened to dr feller and Lindsay as they both said fut. Who knows!!! One can't live in the past is all I can say

 

Don't be so hard on yourself buddy. On the other side of the coin, I regret undergoing strip because of the scar it left me with(the yield was far from the general consensus also). That is not a knock on strip, just showing you that it can go either way.

[Sean]

Ezel, i can understand the feeling. Do you know the surgical protocol your doctor used the day of your procedure?

 

Did he have techs extract? Did he leave the room to work on other patients? Did he only work on you as a patient on the day on your surgery? Did he use a high speed extraction tool?

 

Based on looking at your pics, i'd expect a much better result. I really hope the clinic is addressing your concerns and taking care of you at this point. I really hope no one is feeding you the you need to wait more months garbage at this point and wasting your time.

 

Really wish you the best and hope you get things sorted. In the right hands and protocol, most folks can have great fue and can be good candidates. Dont be hard on yourself. I really hope your doc remedies the situation quickly. Best wishes.

[ezel]

Sean-

I'm 100 percent not being hard on myself. I am disappointed but honestly I can't say I was depressed in the least bit. I told my wife after the procedure that obviously I want the best result but that it was literally like having a weight lifted off my shoulder just doing the procedure. So much back and forth with the decision to do the procedure.

Tecs did all the extractions with a small manual punch. Doc had another procedure going on. He came in and numbed me. Drew the outline and made incisions for graft placement and in the very end probably put in the last few grafts. He has been good about the whole failed procedure. Offered a free procedure. For me I'm on the fence as life has gotten very busy with a new born and the ability to just take it easy for a few weeks after isn't really a possibility right now. I wanted to see more examples of failed procedures by him and how the second procedure turned out but he was only able to give one example and honestly it was one of those cases where i honestly couldn't even really think the guy needed the procedure in the first place. He had frontal thinning but legit not that bad. Often when u see those cases I feel the results look better then they are bc the person didn't have that severe of hair loss to start with. One thing I question in the thread. How is one rep able to represent all these docs? From where this thread has gone it seems like they agree on so little. I would think docs that are represented by the same person would have similar ideals and practices but maybe I'm wrong. I myself am a dentist and work with multiple other docs in a practice and we all think and practice very similarly.

[Melvin- Admin]

Sean-

I'm 100 percent not being hard on myself. I am disappointed but honestly I can't say I was depressed in the least bit. I told my wife after the procedure that obviously I want the best result but that it was literally like having a weight lifted off my shoulder just doing the procedure. So much back and forth with the decision to do the procedure.

Tecs did all the extractions with a small manual punch. Doc had another procedure going on. He came in and numbed me. Drew the outline and made incisions for graft placement and in the very end probably put in the last few grafts. He has been good about the whole failed procedure. Offered a free procedure. For me I'm on the fence as life has gotten very busy with a new born and the ability to just take it easy for a few weeks after isn't really a possibility right now. I wanted to see more examples of failed procedures by him and how the second procedure turned out but he was only able to give one example and honestly it was one of those cases where i honestly couldn't even really think the guy needed the procedure in the first place. He had frontal thinning but legit not that bad. Often when u see those cases I feel the results look better then they are bc the person didn't have that severe of hair loss to start with. One thing I question in the thread. How is one rep able to represent all these docs? From where this thread has gone it seems like they agree on so little. I would think docs that are represented by the same person would have similar ideals and practices but maybe I'm wrong. I myself am a dentist and work with multiple other docs in a practice and we all think and practice very similarly.

 

Man what you described is exactly the mold that hair restoration is moving towards, multiple surgeries at the same time, techs doing the whole surgery, Dr. Doganay has gotten a lot of bad rep, but even Dr. Feriduni does this, that's not acceptable, if I were you, I wouldn't risk precious grafts on a surgeon that already failed, ask for a refund and go elsewhere, and make sure you ask the doctor valid questions like how much of the procedure are you actually involved in, hoe long have your techs been working with you, and are these the same techs that do surgeries with you or are they different techs every surgery? Remember paid representatives have vested interest in the clinic, do your own research speak to real patients with no monetary incentives good luck man I hope this gets resolved.

[ezel]

HTsoon- I asked for a refund and was denied. He told me he would do my second surgery for free. But you are right in the sense it's really hard for me to pony up and travel from the states back to Belgium and go under the knife per say again. He has assured me this time around he will do the entire procedure himself. What I really don't get in this forum is why more people don't mandate that the procedure should be done entirely by the doc. ive used the example before. As i stated in a dentist. If you came to me for a root canal how would you feel if I told you my assistant will be doing the procedure today. I'm just here to get you numb. I assure you my assistant is highly qualified she has gone to lots of continuing education. My guess is you would leave my office. Legally I would lose my license. If you are a doctor you go to years and years of school. I went to 4 years of college. 4 years of dental school and a 1 year residency after that. I don't care how many hours your Tecs have trained or how many surgeries they have done. In the end it should be the doctor and the doctor alone that operates or what ever we want to call it that lays his or her hands on you for the procedure.

I did feel I did the research. But truthfully the thought of someone else working on me during the procedure never occurred to me. I really didn't know that Tecs could ext grafts. I contacted spex pretty recently after the procedure with my worry about this part and he assured me it was normal and how things were done in Europe and that his Tecs were highly trained.

[newbie33]

I think that protocol is fairly standard for Feriduni. The only thing you can guarantee is that he does the incisions. I think the techs have done the extractions for quite a while with him - and the placements.

 

I'm not so bothered about the placement of grafts (sure, skilled, but not so skilled it needs a surgeon) - but I'd definitely expect 100% of the incisions done by the doctor. And I'm fairly uncomfortable about the extractions for fue being done by techs. But you're hard pressed to find any doc who does them all exclusively himself now.

 

I think this practise is becoming more regular as clinics are undertaking multiple surgeries per day. And it's probably why most doctors are pretty vague on exactly how much of the procedure they do - because they don't know for certain you'll be the only one in that day, and how difficult/time-consuming each case will be.

 

Congrats on the firstborn, Ezel. If you didn't before, you'll certainly now know what really matters in life!

 

And to everyone else, I'm rather fond of this quote from Arthur Balfour: Nothing matters very much, and most things don't matter at all.

[Melvin- Admin]

HTsoon- I asked for a refund and was denied. He told me he would do my second surgery for free. But you are right in the sense it's really hard for me to pony up and travel from the states back to Belgium and go under the knife per say again. He has assured me this time around he will do the entire procedure himself. What I really don't get in this forum is why more people don't mandate that the procedure should be done entirely by the doc. ive used the example before. As i stated in a dentist. If you came to me for a root canal how would you feel if I told you my assistant will be doing the procedure today. I'm just here to get you numb. I assure you my assistant is highly qualified she has gone to lots of continuing education. My guess is you would leave my office. Legally I would lose my license. If you are a doctor you go to years and years of school. I went to 4 years of college. 4 years of dental school and a 1 year residency after that. I don't care how many hours your Tecs have trained or how many surgeries they have done. In the end it should be the doctor and the doctor alone that operates or what ever we want to call it that lays his or her hands on you for the procedure.

I did feel I did the research. But truthfully the thought of someone else working on me during the procedure never occurred to me. I really didn't know that Tecs could ext grafts. I contacted spex pretty recently after the procedure with my worry about this part and he assured me it was normal and how things were done in Europe and that his Tecs were highly trained.

 

He refused to refund you?? What that's insane, you need to do what paleo did that's unacceptable, why on earth would you want a free procedure from a surgeon who wasted your grafts that you'll never get back, I considered feriduni but now no way. At the very least refund the patient, offering free procedures at the expense of possibly losing more grafts is ludicrous, how much of the surgery did he actually do?

[Al - Moderator]

Congratulations on having a baby. I hope everything works out for the best in all areas of your life.

[ezel]

Thanks for all the congrats on the baby. He is awesome. A handful for sure but worth it. Yeah he refused to refund me. I asked 100 percent. I'd say he was there for less then 1/4 of the procedure. The incisions were really the only part of the procedure I had face to face contact with the doc other then my consult and the injections and as I aid earlier he placed the last few grafts. In alll honestly I wouldratherr have the money back. I am super nervous to have another procedure done by him. I'd love a

Great result. Who wouldn't. But at this point it's just hard to trust and if the result turn out poor again I'd have nobody else to blame but me for going back. Again the doc has been solid in regards to getting back to me after the failed procedure but I've had limited time to make a final decision. What did paleo do? I'm not familiar with the case or what ever you are referring to??

[JON86]

I am sorry that you got such a sub par result. I think it is ridiculous that the doctor admitted that your procedure was a failure and still won't refund your money. I would not have another procedure with this clinic if I were you. Money can be replaced but grafts cannot. It is alarming to me how many doctors that are starting to pop up that do very little of the work themselves. If we are paying for the doctors name we need to know up front how much they are involved in the procedure. How are we to know what level of experience any technician has? This seems like a very shady side to this business. We need to stand up as patients and let the industry know this is unacceptable.

[Melvin- Admin]

Thanks for all the congrats on the baby. He is awesome. A handful for sure but worth it. Yeah he refused to refund me. I asked 100 percent. I'd say he was there for less then 1/4 of the procedure. The incisions were really the only part of the procedure I had face to face contact with the doc other then my consult and the injections and as I aid earlier he placed the last few grafts. In alll honestly I wouldratherr have the money back. I am super nervous to have another procedure done by him. I'd love a

Great result. Who wouldn't. But at this point it's just hard to trust and if the result turn out poor again I'd have nobody else to blame but me for going back. Again the doc has been solid in regards to getting back to me after the failed procedure but I've had limited time to make a final decision. What did paleo do? I'm not familiar with the case or what ever you are referring to??

Look up his thread "warning read this if you're considering Dr.doganay" he's not even at 6 months yet, and he's basically brought the doctors clinic in to question of even being recommended here, to be honest your experience sounds a lot like his, Doctor popping in and out of the procedure, the difference though is that Dr. Doganay gives refunds, at the very least that helps. But Dr. Feriduni not standing by his work and not offering your money back is terrible. Not only did you pay for hotel+food+airfare ticket and time off work, how can he expect you to do that all over again on your own dime? Did he give an explanation as to why the procedure failed? It seems to me that it was negligence on his part. Either way I'm sure this thread has helped a lot of guys out there who were considering this doctor, no way 100% technician extractions and only 25% actual surgeon participation the true nature of a clinic shows when a procedure fails, really there is little consolation even with your money back, because what we really want is hair and those wasted grafts can never be replaced.

[MAGNUMpi]

what i really don't get in this forum is why more people don't mandate that the procedure should be done entirely by the doc. Ive used the example before. As i stated in a dentist. If you came to me for a root canal how would you feel if i told you my assistant will be doing the procedure today. I'm just here to get you numb. I assure you my assistant is highly qualified she has gone to lots of continuing education. My guess is you would leave my office. Legally i would lose my license. If you are a doctor you go to years and years of school. I went to 4 years of college. 4 years of dental school and a 1 year residency after that. I don't care how many hours your tecs have trained or how many surgeries they have done. In the end it should be the doctor and the doctor alone that operates or what ever we want to call it that lays his or her hands on you for the procedure.

bingo!

[paleocapa89]

I think the answer is very simple:

 

People don't know enough about hair transplants, usually they are uneducated and the percent of involvement of the doctor is usually not highlighted by the clinics either.

 

We are conditioned to trust doctors and believe what they say, recommend and do is in our best interest. Would you ask a doc when you are taken to an appendectomy who's gonna do the anesthesia, who's gonna do incision, and who's gonna do the stitching? And how many years of experience do the techs have? No you won't. Some might even feel uncomfortable for asking questions that may seem to show distrust. And the clinic's probably know this very well and won't telly you voluntarily that the doctor's involvement is minimal, and then they make you sign a paper that says you were fully informed before the procedure.

 

My thread was mentioned in a previous post and I am glad if my story can contribute to a debate about whether is it ok when techs play a major role in the procedures. However, without belittling your concerns and defending Dr Feriduni I want to highlight some differences between the two cases.

 

In my case, I got minimal attention from Dr Doganay preop, he didn't assess my miniaturization pattern or my donor capacity at all, he just took a quick look at my head, recommended me 2500 grafts and drew a hairline on my head. Then when my hair started to grow back on my shaved head, it turned out, I have an extensive miniaturization pattern and not enough donor to compensate for it. With that knowledge, he either should not have recommended me a procedure or should have planned the hairline much more conservatively. I believe the negligence and the lack of assessment is not the case regarding Dr Feriduni.

 

In my case Dr Doganay used techs with little experience to do 100% of the extraction, (and the techs were rotating) and also used techs to do a major part of the implantation, which (since Dr Doganay uses implanter pens) in this case meant that the tech was doing the incisions and the implantation as well. As I learned, making the incision is one of the most crucial part of the procedure, it requires anatomic knowledge, artistic ability and many years of experience to get the grafts in the correct depth and angle. Placing the grafts does not seem to be as hard a task. I have no idea how many years of experience Dr Feriduni's techs have in the field of extraction, but I tend to believe that they have more than Dr Doganay's. And it also seems that techs planting the grafts in the incisions that were made 100% by the doctor is often the norm - or at least not unusual - in the industry. (whether this is okay or not is another story)

 

And last but not least, Dr Doganay produced a significant number of bad results, many of them can be clearly attributed to the extensive use of techs (overharvested donor, misaligned grafts, poor yield from the grafts implanted by the techs etc...) To my best knowledge this is not the case with Dr Feriduni.

 

I do not want to belittle your concerns or defend Dr Feriduni, I just wanted to highlight some aspects that differentiates the two cases. With that said, I don't want to deny the possibility that your sub-par result is caused by the techs, but I think it can be misleading to draw a parallel between the two cases especially for readers who are not aware of every detail of the two cases.

 

Anyway, I do believe that, if you don't want to take Dr Feriduni's offer of a free surgery then you should get a refund. Too many times it seems that HT docs and reps persuade the patients with showing selected best results while downplaying the possibility of a sub-par result. And when a below average result happens they say things like: "nobodody gets it right every time", and "it must have been the patients unique physiology" or "it is the X factor" shifting the responsibility to the patient. If sub-par results really only happen on rare occasions then they should be able to refund the money and still make a buck load of money right?

 

I hope your concerns get resolved and I wish you all the best.

[ZeoRanger]

Sorry for your disappointing result. Did your doctor ever rule out a skin/blood condition that prevented growth? Or a hidden infection? I recall there was another patient with a renowned doctor who had poor growth. After year 1 turned out he had a nasty condition called lichen planopilaris. I wonder why doctors do not test patients for this BEFORE the procedure...

 

I find it difficult to believe that the techs were so lousy that they transected every single graft. They're no doctors but I still think they'd be trained well enough to get the extraction right.

[LondonHT]

What i just dont understand is the Dr offers to do it again including all travel costs yet will not refund.

Refund would be best option.

[paleocapa89]

I think economically it makes sense from the doctor's point of view. This is probably a high fixed cost - low variable cost business. He probably pays a fix salary for his staff, a fix rent monthly etc. That is why they strive for maximal utilization. Giving back money would decrease profit but transplanting 1600 grafts more in a month for free will only cost some free time of the doc, maybe some extra time for the staff.

 

And if the doctor truly believes he can fix the failure, then making the patient happy is probably a better long term investment for him than giving back money. Dissatisfied patient whether he gets his money back or not is not good for a clinic.

Edited November 9, 2015 by paleocapa89

[Melvin- Admin]

Ezel,

How was the pre-op with feriduni? Did he measure your donor density? Did he tell you your total donor capacity? Or did he basically just tell you that you needed X amount of grafts and draw the hairline?

 

Paleo, I think when a patient has a bad result the patient/physician trust has been broken, regardless of what's in the best interest for the clinic as a business the ethical thing to do is to refund the money, how could you put your faith or trust in a Doctor that's already failed? I wouldn't and it's not right for the clinic to expect that of you, especially when dealing with finite grafts.

[paleocapa89]

don't get me wrong, I agree with you completely. I just tried to find an explanation why the clinics are often offering free procedures and don't seem to be so keen on giving refunds after a failure. Not to mention if a clinic gives a refund, then it basically acknowledges that it was his fault. However, if it offers you a free procedure then it can be interpreted as "something went wrong and the clinic is doing everything it can to solve the problem and make the patient happy"

[HairJo]

Do you still have enough donor to do a FUT if that's the case I would go that route with a reputable doctor maybe FUE is not the procedure that works for you . Good luck to you

[Sean]

Sorry for your disappointing result. Did your doctor ever rule out a skin/blood condition that prevented growth? Or a hidden infection? I recall there was another patient with a renowned doctor who had poor growth. After year 1 turned out he had a nasty condition called lichen planopilaris. I wonder why doctors do not test patients for this BEFORE the procedure...

 

I find it difficult to believe that the techs were so lousy that they transected every single graft. They're no doctors but I still think they'd be trained well enough to get the extraction right.

 

This is a very interesting post. Usually some docs may say Lichens Planopilaris or Cicatricial Alopecia. This could be suggested after repairs. But you would imagine docs testing for such conditions prior to repairs. Luckily folks like me have been cleared of such conditions by military docs. There are some folks who may have such conditions. There are docs that can also successfully transplant in some folks who have certain conditions as well. Obviously, surgical scoring is surgery. Techs may vary with such experiences, they could be learning, they could be exposed to one hair type more than the other, they can have less years experience and etc. However, what good is a recommendation if docs end up doing minimal to no work. Do we pay premiums for tech extractions or doc ones? You learn a lot about this industry. Is it ok to be the sole patient of the day or ok to be worked on during multiple procedures? So many things to research. Is it ok to do large procedures in one day or two to reduce graft death? Some well known name brands may not follow such protocols and you just have to be more aware now, more than ever, that your safety is paramount.

 

I think this pattient deserves the best outcome. Some of us may know how such things may feel. You have a lot invested when going through with this procedure and you hope a doc delivers. I really hope doctor continues to work with this patient and he gets what he seeks. He deserves the best.

[Sean]

Sean-

I'm 100 percent not being hard on myself. I am disappointed but honestly I can't say I was depressed in the least bit. I told my wife after the procedure that obviously I want the best result but that it was literally like having a weight lifted off my shoulder just doing the procedure. So much back and forth with the decision to do the procedure.

Tecs did all the extractions with a small manual punch. Doc had another procedure going on. He came in and numbed me. Drew the outline and made incisions for graft placement and in the very end probably put in the last few grafts. He has been good about the whole failed procedure. Offered a free procedure. For me I'm on the fence as life has gotten very busy with a new born and the ability to just take it easy for a few weeks after isn't really a possibility right now. I wanted to see more examples of failed procedures by him and how the second procedure turned out but he was only able to give one example and honestly it was one of those cases where i honestly couldn't even really think the guy needed the procedure in the first place. He had frontal thinning but legit not that bad. Often when u see those cases I feel the results look better then they are bc the person didn't have that severe of hair loss to start with. One thing I question in the thread. How is one rep able to represent all these docs? From where this thread has gone it seems like they agree on so little. I would think docs that are represented by the same person would have similar ideals and practices but maybe I'm wrong. I myself am a dentist and work with multiple other docs in a practice and we all think and practice very similarly.

 

First and foremost, congrats on your newborn. I can completely understand your situation as i am facing a few hurdles myself. I am starting to wonder at how folks/docs present their results. You have to analyze their patients prior states carefully as folks with minimal hairloss may generally have a robust result with all that dense packing, but it can be two fold if it is done wrecklessly. Reps are folks who market multiple docs, each doc pays them for defense on forums basically. A rep can be hited by someone who does tech extractions and by someone that does doctor only extractions, but as long as the money is coming, you look for ways to defend both ways without harming your business relationships.

 

I read you were denied a refund, but doc said theyll do extractions themselves now? Why weren't doctor extractions done before if this is the reasoning? Did you ask the doc for any other option, that if they dont want to refund, can they pay another doctor to do your procedure? This is the scary part of picking docs, if they screw up, you are stuck with their repairs and seems there is no way out comfortabely.

 

Whatever you decide, i really hope you are able to move forward without any setbacks. I can understand what you are facing and i really wish you did not have to go through this.