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FBO

2 1/2 years post operation, and i think something

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is wrong. What i mean by that is, the areas which i had the procedure done do not look full or anywhere near natural look. I had 1350 Grafts with the FUT procedure, done. Here are the pics, please give me your honest, humble opinion as to how many grafts this is, and what you think of the results.

One side has more hair then the other, and i think that is because the office had two different people working on it. One thing that upset me is that, i really thought the doctor WAS going the be the one doing the procedure and not some random person, which later i found out that they get paid only $11 per hour. Thanks for reading.

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20150227_191040.jpg.2a9000ecd9ce9acc9f46923e8ae236f6.jpg

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Hi, Thank you for the reply. Yes. He is! After visiting two more times, bringing up the issue to him, his response was, "Oh i can fix that, just going to be another $3k) What annoys me most is two results, each side looks different, and I am certain that is because of two underpaid technicians, if that is what they are called were working on me.

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This result is really disappointing. You should be fixed up for free unless this is the result of further hairloss since your HT. Would be interesting to know who your doc was.

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Hi, Thank you for the reply. Yes. He is! After visiting two more times, bringing up the issue to him, his response was, "Oh i can fix that, just going to be another $3k) What annoys me most is two results, each side looks different, and I am certain that is because of two underpaid technicians, if that is what they are called were working on me.

 

That is EXTREMELY alarming. I hope moderators will comment on this case.

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Honestly, I'm not looking to get things for free. I have ALWAYS pride myself with earning what i have since i was a kid. I brought up this issue not once, but twice to the Doc., and his response was the same, (You need more grafts, i can fix it for $3k) I don't mind paying the 3k , but My concern/question is, will you the Doctor be the one that will perform the procedure, or two other underpaid technicians?

Please note, that I'm not here to bash anyone or cause issues, but if a prospect is reading this, and wants to know who the Doc., is, then PM me and i will gladly say.

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Some people go through life, or into HTs without unreasonable expectations and that is on them. This however is a result that no patient should reasonably expect nor should any doc stand behind this as being quality work.

 

How did it looks a year post op? Has it gotten better, worse, or remained the same?

Edited by Gram

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Same, after reading so many posts and articles which mention that the full growth happens around 1 year to 1.5 years, i finally decided to post this. :/

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It is sub par work. You either need a refund or get repaired by the doc at no cost. I dont know how the doc can insinuate another 3000 dollars as a fix.

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I agree with all the others asking which Dr this was - he could be asked to chime in and comment on this.

That's quite a low number of grafts to do FUT. But that said you should have had a noticeable change ! I wouldn't go back to the same Dr if its sub par work already.

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We're seeing this all to often were patients don't have a clue who is actually going to be doing the work.Then the patients get offered a FIX for X amount.

I have far less respect in the capabilities of recommended drs here than I used to.

After seeing cases such as this or the donor left open or fut+fue for 1500 grafts and drs not going to be in the office during the whole ht and their not getting held to account for their actions.

We as paying customers and human beings deserve to be treated better it really grinds my gears when people are taken advantage of and the perpetrators get off scot free.

The dr should offer you a free repair but make sure it won't be the same techs as last time.

If I were you I would go elsewhere ask this dr for a refund and go to someone else otherwise you could end up with the same result.

I hope you get the results you were hoping for with your next procedure.

Have a nice day

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As FTC or regulators may or may not be investigating the industry, docs, reps, mentors, clinics, forums, conferences, etc., it may be a good idea to name a doctor. It helps with the linking process and statements on record. A lot of lives are affected and some folks have possibly committed suicide or faced great amount of distress as a result of hopes, advice, promises, claims and etc.

 

You do not need to mention much, but the doctor name in any case such as this is very important. Any organization holding you back or warning to penalize you would be complacent and an assistant to fraud.

 

Regardless of agreements, consents, terms of service, these things are irrelevant as regulators, regardless of how robost contracts are, can fine big corps like ATT or etc for any form of fraud deception etc. trust me on this though, some folks in power are not buying into lots of things in the industry. Some folks may have a big surprise coming. It is a risk they are willing to take, from modifying past old rules and regs to protect them now and things they are doing as is into the future.

 

Businesse,Agents are businesses. They need to follow the law and should not be an accessory to fraud and deception at multiple levels.

 

I hope you do get some sort of resolve soon. You do not deserve this and it is quite evident you are suffering and have sufferred.

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We're seeing this all to often were patients don't have a clue who is actually going to be doing the work.Then the patients get offered a FIX for X amount.

I have far less respect in the capabilities of recommended drs here than I used to.

After seeing cases such as this or the donor left open or fut+fue for 1500 grafts and drs not going to be in the office during the whole ht and their not getting held to account for their actions.

We as paying customers and human beings deserve to be treated better it really grinds my gears when people are taken advantage of and the perpetrators get off scot free.

The dr should offer you a free repair but make sure it won't be the same techs as last time.

If I were you I would go elsewhere ask this dr for a refund and go to someone else otherwise you could end up with the same result.

I hope you get the results you were hoping for with your next procedure.

Have a nice day

 

But weren't you saying a patient can just walk out of the clinic if the person operating is different? Curious.

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I do not get what you mean ko!

If you are told a specific person/persons are going to be doing the work and it turns out this is not the case I would walk,You ko thats up to you.

I wouldn't go with the same doc who gave me a poor result previously and I certainly would not pay an extra 3k for it.

He cannot get back his lost donor here but IMO he should get his money back and if right was right the dr should pick up the bill for a similar sized op with a different doc as way of compensation.

I'm not interested in the drs name if he will only divulge it privately I think he should name him for all to see who read this thats up to him.

But like I said ko I dont know what point your trying to make so if you could elaborate please?

Have a nice day

 

But weren't you saying a patient can just walk out of the clinic if the person operating is different? Curious.

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Guys,

 

Just to clarify a few things:

 

It sounds like FBO was not aware of the role the technician plays in strip procedures. It's common practice for technicians to dissect the strip under microscopic dissection and place grafts. Now, utilizing underpaid or under-trained technicians is something else. If this is the case, we need to get to the bottom of it.

 

FBO, please send me a private message with the name of your doctor. We will reach out and ask for an explanation and help you two reach a resolution.

 

1966,

 

KO is referring to your earlier arguments about FUE clinics advertising using the name of a doctor, but then utilizing technicians to perform the entire procedure without any physician oversight. If I remember correctly, you said patients in this situation were free to simply "get up and walk out" of the clinic if they arrived and didn't know beforehand that an unknown technician would be performing the procedure.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised to read some of your above comments. You've been highly supportive of clinics using this model in the past. What's more, I don't think it's what is happening here.

 

I'm also sorry to hear you've lost faith in our recommendation standards. They are posted publicly and have not changed. If there is anything you think we can do to improve, please let us know. We're always interested in improving.

 

Thanks.


"Doc" Blake Bloxham - formerly "Future_HT_Doc"

 

Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum

 

All opinions are my own and my advice does not constitute as medical advice. All medical questions and concerns should be addressed by a personal physician.

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Hello blake I hope your well.

I am going to maral next week for my long overdue ht and have been assured by dr maral that the least experienced person that will be working on me has 4 years experience and the most experienced 11 years so am I happy with this yes I am.

I have said before and maybe there should be a list compiled and made into a sticky that we should ask as many questions as possible and the dr should be prepared to answer ALL.

Blake tell me if you got in the chair and a person you knew zero about was about to set about your ht after being assured someone else was going to be doing the work would you walk?

 

The only people that didn't know that maral was not hands on were the ones who had not read the information thats been on this forum since 2013.

Same goes for the fact that the incisions aren't made with a drill which Pupdaddy has posted god knows how many times giving out incorrect information.

 

I have literally sent dr maral dozens of emails and he's answered all my questions regarding his team of techs and while your here and saying no physicians oversight could you please link me to were this has ever been stated because I have never seen this stated?

 

In regard to the recommendation process members casting votes should count for something and you know fine well I'm not the only one thinking it stood for nothing with dr duas recommendation. I stated that only votes cast within the relevant thread should be counted non of this private messages received from drs who are to busy! To busy to say in public their thoughts but can find the time by email or private message does one any take longer than the other?

But theres a idea for you the sticky for the questions we should be asking a dr during a consultation but I would imagine its been answered dozens of times but a sticky would be useful for all newbies especially.

Have a nice weekend

 

Guys,

 

Just to clarify a few things:

 

It sounds like FBO was not aware of the role the technician plays in strip procedures. It's common practice for technicians to dissect the strip under microscopic dissection and place grafts. Now, utilizing underpaid or under-trained technicians is something else. If this is the case, we need to get to the bottom of it.

 

FBO, please send me a private message with the name of your doctor. We will reach out and ask for an explanation and help you two reach a resolution.

 

1966,

 

KO is referring to your earlier arguments about FUE clinics advertising using the name of a doctor, but then utilizing technicians to perform the entire procedure without any physician oversight. If I remember correctly, you said patients in this situation were free to simply "get up and walk out" of the clinic if they arrived and didn't know beforehand that an unknown technician would be performing the procedure.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised to read some of your above comments. You've been highly supportive of clinics using this model in the past. What's more, I don't think it's what is happening here.

 

I'm also sorry to hear you've lost faith in our recommendation standards. They are posted publicly and have not changed. If there is anything you think we can do to improve, please let us know. We're always interested in improving.

 

Thanks.

Edited by 1966kph

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It was not known at all that Maral is not hands on, even Bill thought Maral was doing surgery. Until I brought it up, it was not discussed at all. Even worse, people were telling us that the person making incisions was a physician.

Edited by Blake_Bloxham

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Blake - while I agree that it is possible the OP was not aware of the role of technicians in FUT. Looking objectively at the result, I think you will agree that it does not meet expectations, either in planning or in yield. Furthermore it is also somewhat concerning (my opinion only) that FUT was used for such small number of grafts.

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FBO,

Following up to what Blake said, the standard protocol for FUT strip surgery is:

1. The surgeon, in consultation with the patient, marks the proposed hairline and demarcations of the transplant areas;

2. The surgeon injects the patient's donor zone with local anesthetic;

3. The surgeon surgically removes the strip from the back of your head and then commences suturimg and/or surgically stapling the wound closed;

4. While the surgeon works on closing the strip wound, a group of technicians get busy dissecting the strip into follicular unit grafts, under high powered microscopes, and sorting them. Once the technicians have a total graft count ...

5. The surgeon cuts the graft recipient incisions in the pre-marked transplant areas;

6. Technicians commence placing the previously dissected and sorted grafts into the graft recipient incisions that were made by the surgeon (sometimes the surgeon makes all the graft recipient incisions before any grafts are placed into them by the technicians, whereas sometimes incisions and graft placement are done in batches, whereas other times a stick-and-place method is employed, i.e., each time the surgeon makes a recipient incision a technician immediately places a graft in it).

 

FBO -- did the procedure depart from the above standard protocol?

 

Note: Occasionally, the surgeon will place some grafts in some of the recipient incisions themselves, but this is now the rare exception. The placement (seating/insertion) of grafts into the surgeon-made recipient incisions is pretty much exclusively tasked to technicians theses days.

 

Based on your photos, it seems that two things might have gone wrong: 1) insufficient number of grafts for the area transplanted, and 2) poor yield of the grafts that were transplanted.

 

I hope this gets addressed and rectified to your satisfaction, and I hope you will take Blake up on his offer to get involved.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

3. The surgeon then cuts the grafts recipient sites in the pre

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FBO,

Following up to what Blake said, the standard protocol for FUT strip surgery is:

1. The surgeon, in consultation with the patient, marks the proposed hairline and demarcations of the transplant areas;

2. The surgeon injects the patient's donor zone with local anesthetic;

3. The surgeon surgically removes the strip from the back of your head and then commences suturimg and/or surgically stapling the wound closed;

4. While the surgeon works on closing the strip wound, a group of technicians get busy dissecting the strip into follicular unit grafts, under high powered microscopes, and sorting them. Once the technicians have a total graft count ...

5. The surgeon cuts the graft recipient incisions in the pre-marked transplant areas;

6. Technicians commence placing the previously dissected and sorted grafts into the graft recipient incisions that were made by the surgeon (sometimes the surgeon makes all the graft recipient incisions before any grafts are placed into them by the technicians, whereas sometimes incisions and graft placement are done in batches, whereas other times a stick-and-place method is employed, i.e., each time the surgeon makes a recipient incision a technician immediately places a graft in it).

 

 

 

Yes thats pretty much the standard protocol with a slight modification to step 2 , where techs may inject anesthesia but under the surgeons supervision -- at least this is what I went through for my 3 FUT procedures over the past 11 years.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FUT #1, ~ 1600 grafts hairline (Ron Shapiro 2004)

FUT #2 ~ 2000 grafts frontal third (Ziering 2011)

FUT #3 ~ 1900 grafts midscalp (Ron Shapiro early 2015)

FUE ~ 1500 grafts frontal third, side scalp, FUT scar repair --300 beard, 1200 scalp (Ron Shapiro, late 2016)

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185663-recent-fue-dr-ron-shapiro-prior-fut-patient.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I'm also sorry to hear you've lost faith in our recommendation standards. They are posted publicly and have not changed. If there is anything you think we can do to improve, please let us know. We're always interested in improving.

 

Thanks.

 

Blake, I feel like there should be a metric for approval honestly. Say, a board of doctors have a specific weight in percentage of approval and then members with over say, 200 posts, it something to that effect. Then it's a yes/no vote. Obviously, the last doctor recommended was against the recommendation of the majority of the community., but then he was still recommended, and the community was told that the majority WAS in favor of that physician being recommended, even though it was black and white that he was not. There is also at least one physician that is no longer at the standard of what a recommend physician, was called out (and fairly so) and he's still recommended. There is obviously work to do in recommendation process and I'm afraid we'll see more posts like these without done action being taken.


I am an online representative for Dr. Raymond Konior who is an elite member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

View Dr. Konior's Website

View Spanker's Website

I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be taken as medical advice.

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My question to FBO, do you have any pre op and one year pics? Are you on fin?

 

You can lose a, lot of hair at 2.5 years. Transplants aren't meant to stand alone forever on one procedure, so to be fair to the clinic, we'd need more info. 1350 grafts is not a lot of grafts, so it's hard to tell if we are dealing with a yield issue or a planning issue.


I am an online representative for Dr. Raymond Konior who is an elite member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

View Dr. Konior's Website

View Spanker's Website

I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be taken as medical advice.

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