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Can't do Minoxidil - what else can help?


BigBrother
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Hey guys, so here's my status on the Big 3:

 

1. Niz: just started using twice a week

2. Fin: too much risk for me to take (not worth addressing, move along ;))

3. Min: so I just tried this yesterday and there's no way I can use this. Massive headaches, lightheadedness, and dizziness both times I've applied it (it was 5% Rogaine liquid.) I'm writing this now about 24 hours after my last application and I still feel about 40% of the symptoms. It was BAD. And immediate.

 

For what it's worth, I'm also using Nexxus Vitatress shampoo and scalp creme- those two are great.

 

So I need to now figure out what I can/should take to ensure the best results. Min is out of the question, even at a 2% solution. You know how sometimes your body tells you, in no uncertain terms, THIS SHOULD NOT BE HERE? That's how I felt with this stuff- it feels like poison.

 

So what else should I do? I haven't done any nutritional supplements yet since I didn't want full-body hair thickening/growth, but maybe it's time (Biotin? MSM?)

 

Any alternatives to Min out there that are showing promise and are known for not having side effects?

 

These are basically the questions I have- what can I do to ensure as much as thickness as possible given the above constraints, till one day maybe a transplant ;)?

 

Thanks all! (Oh, and please, please avoid commentary on why I should in fact take Fin or Min- consider them off the table for me. Thanks.)

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I am not suggesting that there is an exact alternative to minox but there are some things that you can try to increase blood flow to your hair follicles to help give you some stimulation.

 

Increase bold flow to scalp

Green Touch- Cayenne Hair Growth w Saw palmetto

Onion Juice

LLLT- jury still out on benefits but can't hurt and no known side effects that I am aware of.

 

Vitamins & Supplements;

biotin

vitamin B complex

Silica

MSM

pumpkin Seed oil

nettle root

saw palmetto

 

DHT alternatives to FIN;

RU58841

S5 cream- some suggest they have zero side effects from this topical application.

 

This should help give you some additional options.

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I wouldn't say there is a hierarchy per say but he is a idea of what they can do.

 

Saw Palmetto-natural DHT inhibitor

Nettle Root-natural DHT inhibitor

Pumpkin Seed Oil- natural mild DHT inhibitor no side effects as your body will process as it is a food.

 

Vitamin B Complex-contributes to overall hair health

biotin- supports hair, skin, nail health

mSm- hair supplement will accelerate rate at which hair grows

silica- supports hair, skin, nail health

 

I think to supplement the the absence of the MinoX I would start with the Cayenne & saw palmetto oil and use 2-3 times per week. In addition to trying some of the supplements and A DHT inhibitor.

 

This should really help contribute to overall hair health and once you find a what works for you it will help offset not using minox & FIN and you won't have to worry about side effects you were concerned about.

 

 

I personally haven't tried the S5 cream but it seems to help a lot of men who have mild hair loss and aren't willing to take propecia. It is talked about and I believe it can be purchased on hair loss talk. They have a day and night cream. The day cream has caffeine and both are applied like a lotion with a thin layer..

 

Keep us posted on what works best for you. There are a lot of hair loss sufferers that are looking for alternatives as propecia & minox isn't viable for many men.

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I wouldn't say there is a hierarchy per say but he is a idea of what they can do.

 

Saw Palmetto-natural DHT inhibitor

Nettle Root-natural DHT inhibitor

Pumpkin Seed Oil- natural mild DHT inhibitor no side effects as your body will process as it is a food.

 

Vitamin B Complex-contributes to overall hair health

biotin- supports hair, skin, nail health

mSm- hair supplement will accelerate rate at which hair grows

silica- supports hair, skin, nail health

 

I think to supplement the the absence of the MinoX I would start with the Cayenne & saw palmetto oil and use 2-3 times per week. In addition to trying some of the supplements and A DHT inhibitor.

 

This should really help contribute to overall hair health and once you find a what works for you it will help offset not using minox & FIN and you won't have to worry about side effects you were concerned about.

 

 

I personally haven't tried the S5 cream but it seems to help a lot of men who have mild hair loss and aren't willing to take propecia. It is talked about and I believe it can be purchased on hair loss talk. They have a day and night cream. The day cream has caffeine and both are applied like a lotion with a thin layer..

 

Keep us posted on what works best for you. There are a lot of hair loss sufferers that are looking for alternatives as propecia & minox isn't viable for many men.

Do you know of any combo supplements that contain many of the top ones, perchance? I know there are some sold on Amazon but wasn't sure what's considered good on here. Obviously 1-2 pills a day is preferred to 5-10 :)

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I recently saw that life extension sells a formula that contains;

Saw palmetto

Nettle root

Beta sterols

 

Most of these products are sold as individual supplements/items but I sure you can dig around and there may be options that sell an all in one formula.

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KO is right nothing else will work. I have been on rogaine but stayed off fin and have the paid the price in terms of a crown that could be have been filled in using finasteride but is a glaring bald spot right now. At my age, I am ok with that look as long as other hair transplants can frame my face . I am a diffuse NW 5+.

 

All the herbal supplements , oils , etc etc may help on the margin with the thickness and health of the hair shaft but they will NOT magically activate follicles that have been knocked out by DHT . This is the bane of our (male) existence.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FUT #1, ~ 1600 grafts hairline (Ron Shapiro 2004)

FUT #2 ~ 2000 grafts frontal third (Ziering 2011)

FUT #3 ~ 1900 grafts midscalp (Ron Shapiro early 2015)

FUE ~ 1500 grafts frontal third, side scalp, FUT scar repair --300 beard, 1200 scalp (Ron Shapiro, late 2016)

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185663-recent-fue-dr-ron-shapiro-prior-fut-patient.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Are you suggesting nothing else with work as a DHT inhibitor other than propecia?

 

I think you may want to do some more research on that. RU58842 ethics is gaining a lot of popularity on BTT and I have seen the results. Many state they feel it is as effective as propecia and keep in mind these are of patients that have taken propecia for extended periods of time. There are also that state they have had some minor sides and have either tweaked their formula or have gone off the drug. S5 has I stated has been effective for those with minor moderate loss put isn't as effective as propecia or RU58841.

 

Saw Palmetto has been shown to be effective as a DHT inhibitor and I have been told by multiple prominent HT surgeons that they feel it can help a great deal in certain patients.

 

This theory that propecia is the only thing that help help combat hair loss is simply wrong. I have taken propecia myself for nearly ten years so I am aware of what it can do and by no means am I discrediting it effectiveness. It just simply isn't an option for all as many many men have experienced sides.

 

In terms of there being no alternative to minox KO has a point as I don't feel there is something that is the exact same thing. There are however options out there that can help stimulate the hair follicles. This along with some solid vitamins and supplements can attribute to overall hair health.

 

I think that was what "Big Brother" was looking for input on.

 

" nothing else will work" is quite misleading and doesn't do Big Brother any good as he is clearly looking for alternatives as he stated in his original thread.

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Given that the OP is not willing to "risk" finasteride, I find it curious to recommend a chemical not approved for human use, with an unclear dosage, no safety data, no standard vehicle, and has to be sourced from semi legal shady labs in east Asia. It's one thing to try RU if fin fails, but as a first line of defense? :)

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All due respect, I think while what you're saying is true it is also pretty misleading. I think most can agree that you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage without minox and fin. Many docs believe everything you listed is a waste of time and resources. That doesn't mean it's gospel, but why sugarcoat like any of that stuff will compare by any stretch of the imagination.

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wazaam --- I really don't know much about RU58842 so if thats the next big thing I am all for it . Regarding others , by "nothing else works ", I still think finasteride and minx are the only ones proven to work across a broad swath of patients , and not just work some of the time or for some of the patients (where other factors may be at play as well) . These are all good suggestions from you but I will make one point though ---

 

Many patients continue to lose hair while they keep on trying a wide variety of alternatives (to fin and minox) and by the time they realize "nothing else works " on a consistent basis they have already lost a whole chunk of hair . When I was taking finasteride , it seemed like a magic pill and i could actually see my crown filling in by the week (that was something). unfortunately for me, the side effects were a bigger factor and I had to discontinue it and given that, I can totally see the OP's viewpoint here . I made a conscious decision to use HTs to fill in what I could but at the same time I do realize I did miss out on a whole bunch of hair by staying off finasteride - but that was a trade off I was willing to make.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FUT #1, ~ 1600 grafts hairline (Ron Shapiro 2004)

FUT #2 ~ 2000 grafts frontal third (Ziering 2011)

FUT #3 ~ 1900 grafts midscalp (Ron Shapiro early 2015)

FUE ~ 1500 grafts frontal third, side scalp, FUT scar repair --300 beard, 1200 scalp (Ron Shapiro, late 2016)

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185663-recent-fue-dr-ron-shapiro-prior-fut-patient.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I am not stating he take anything first and foremost. That choice is up to him personally and is M.D. if he chooses to consult him/her.

 

I am simply trying to give him options that I feel may help which is better than trying nothing. This is CLEARLY what he was looking for before this needless debate started.

 

I simply stated what some alternatives currently are as well some of the ones that I have implemented and tried myself.

 

"Given that the OP is not willing to "risk" finasteride, I find it curious to recommend a chemical not approved for human use, with an unclear dosage, no safety data, no standard vehicle, and has to be sourced from semi legal shady labs in east Asia. It's one thing to try RU if fin fails, but as a first line of defense?"

 

It was never suggested in any of my posts that his first line of defense should be to try RU58841? I assume however like myself that you haven't tried it so any speculation on your part is pure conjecture. As I stated when I posted it is considered an alternative to FIN and many have stated that they feel it is as effective as FIN with less side effects. Those that I am referring to are other patients who have tried it and posted their experiences and results in large part on other hair loss forums. I think it would be wise for anyone to do their research and consult their M.D. before they try like most drugs.

 

There obviously seems to be large group of posters on the forums who are looking for alternative hair loss remedies for whatever reason they may have at the time.

 

I think it is short sided to simply discredit their questions and state that nothing else works especially given that they stated have NO interest in taking minox/fin.

 

As this has clearly derailed itself from the original thread and Big Brothers premise for posting it may be wise to start a different thread if there is still the need to debate this any further.

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I didn't mean it as a personal attack btw. I'm genuinely curious. To be clear, I'm not against RU, I think it's great that we have options for those who cannot take fin. But keep in mind this poster is avoiding fin, which to me is different from somebody who actually had sides.

 

Btw, a number of users complain of sides from RU, and MDs cannot prescribe it.

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I get what you were trying to do and I take almost all of the supplements you mention in hopes of preventing hairloss. Taking the times to share your knowledge of alternatives is very much appreciated. I just wanted to emphasize the gaping difference in proven effectiveness among all the hairless tools out there in case the OP was unaware. Sorry if it came across as brash or personal.

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Fair enough.

 

I have read where patients have had sides with RU that were comparable to what they experienced with FIN as well and it should be noted. My opinion is that those patients where hyper sensitive to any anti androgen (many took FIN in small doses) but that is all speculation on my part.

 

Long term if RU is regulated properly I think it may have it's place as it can be manipulated in a different way as it is applied topically.

 

The jury is still out so who knows where this lead.

 

As I stated in my initial post my intent was to simply educate on the current options that he has as that was the input he was looking for.

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Anyways, if we're going down RU lane, I would also try CB0301

 

This was supposed to be the next big thing but from my research it appears that the trail has run cold?

 

I haven't seen much on this but I do have interest in seeing what it can do.

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Not sure about the status, but it owned by Cosmo Pharma who was licensing it to a US entity. Haven't seen the details. The interesting thing about it is that it degrades into cortisol in the body, so.....no systemic androgenic effects on paper at least.

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Yeah, for what it's worth, I'm effectively saying "fully aware the Big 3 are the standard ticket and most effective. Am using one so far just fine (Niz). Won't touch another out of (call it irrational) fear. And the third I was totally gung ho but jesus did it mess with me- and hard -the first two times I put it on. So what else can I do to at least stabilize or improve the situation without the miraculous results those two can provide?" If said results are much smaller, so be it, but I'm willing to at least do *something* to improve the situation, especially if ti can stabilize if not regrow. Also, FYI, I'm barely even on the Norwood scale- you can see some thinning at the crown and a little at the temples, but that's it. Recession has been very gradual over the past ten years. So if I can maintain that more or less till transplant time :), that'd be a success.

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