Are immediate post op results a good reflection or indicator of the final result?

[Redchilli007]

I have a question for guys in the know and those who have had a HT or two

 

I'm about 12 days post op, so I'm in that short period of time where the grafts are in place and growing before they shed and go into hibernation for a few months.

 

My question. Are the hairs I'm seeing grow now and indication of my final results except the hairs will be obviously longer with the final result.

 

To make it clearer what I'm asking is can I expect more from these grafts when they reappear from hibernation or is it just lenght? I have heard that immediate post of grafts sometimes dont grow, they stay as they are before shedding. Do they return stronger and thicker? and the double, triple and multiple grafts are pretty much impossible to spot now. Are they not happening immediate post op and become more visible at the full growth stage?

 

I'm just a little anxious lookng at my grafts now that the final result will not be dense enough. Can I expect more thickness and more from the non single grafts or will they look the same as they do now before they shed, just with more lenght.

[johnny2000]

I am bumbing This thread cause i want to know This also

[Spanker]

Post op growing is a good sign. You may get a couple hairs that appear to be one's that are hiding a follicle, but for the most part, what you see is what you get, assuming you get close to 100 percent growth. That said, length, layering, and caliber will be a big part of your final look, so you will need to wait to for the result to decide to worry or not. It flies by for some, and for some it is agonizingly slow.

[Aftermath]

the answer to this all depends on the surgeon IMO, if you have an excellent surgeon chances are you will get 95-100% growth of grafts so it can be a good indication... although the redness can make it look slightly more dense IMO.

 

The problem is when u get these guys having FUE with surgeons that aren't that experienced in FUE (or even a poor strip procedure with an inadequate doc). FUE is technically a lot more difficult and in megasessions (above 2000 in 1 day) is never a good idea IMO, guys like Lorenzo may well do mega sessions but they stage them over a couple of days, which gives a much more predictable result as fatigue in large 1 day sessions can be a real issue.

 

Some guys on here go to Timbuctoo and have like 4-5k grafts done in 1 day because its $1 per graft and they think all surgeons are the same... unfortunately they aren't! These type of cases end up getting 40-50% growth at best and a vastly depleted donor area! They look great post op then 12 months later they look more like the pre-op pic, this is why u have to be so careful with doctor selection FUE or FUT, IMO though theres a much shorter list of good surgeons for FUE and there aren't many docs i'd personally trust... Lorenzo and Bisanga are two I'd personally trust with maybe a couple more from Europe... the list is short though!

Edited May 1, 2014 by Aftermath

[fueshare]

I'd love to see some expert opinion here as well. I did a lot of research and here is what I think.

 

Once you are at 10 days post op you should see the hairs growing a little bit. This is a 100% guarantee the growing FUs survived and they weren't transected. However there are a few more risks after that which apply equally for FUE and FUT- if the FUs were implanted at suboptimal depth/angle they may fail to get proper blood supply later on. Sometimes you will see grafts that pop too high, which implies that they are positioned somewhat higher than their original depth. This can be adjusted with the angle or it might not matter at all. I think only grafts that are too deep are in danger, so most of the time it's not an issue. Even if depth wasn't a problem, sometimes they might not grow for various reasons such as infection (preventable) or inadequate healing physiology.

 

I am 3 weeks post op. Pretty happy with the number of grafts that grew initially (survived), but still very anxious about the end result. If everything that grew initially makes it to the final result it will be awesome.

[Aftermath]

I'd love to see some expert opinion here as well. I did a lot of research and here is what I think.

 

Once you are at 10 days post op you should see the hairs growing a little bit. This is a 100% guarantee the growing FUs survived and they weren't transected. However there are a few more risks after that which apply equally for FUE and FUT- if the FUs were implanted at suboptimal depth/angle they may fail to get proper blood supply later on. Sometimes you will see grafts that pop too high, which implies that they are positioned somewhat higher than their original depth. This can be adjusted with the angle or it might not matter at all. I think only grafts that are too deep are in danger, so most of the time it's not an issue. Even if depth wasn't a problem, sometimes they might not grow for various reasons such as infection (preventable) or inadequate healing physiology.

 

I am 3 weeks post op. Pretty happy with the number of grafts that grew initially (survived), but still very anxious about the end result. If everything that grew initially makes it to the final result it will be awesome.

 

i don't think that thing about the growing hairs is true, some appear to be growing when they're infact pushing out as they shed, which is in fact not growth! who'd u get your FUE with mate?

[fueshare]

i don't think that thing about the growing hairs is true, some appear to be growing when they're infact pushing out as they shed, which is in fact not growth! who'd u get your FUE with mate?

 

Oh thats new. I know they shed, but I thought they grow using some of the transplanted tissue and whatever bloodflow is around diffusely. I've seen this in a video where someone was arguing about transplanting more or less surrounding tissue in order to feed the initial growth. Your theory also makes sense to me, since even transected hairs come with the white pulp which will glue them in for a while and then shed with no FU surviving. Now i feel a little worse about my progress. Oh well... :eek:

[Aftermath]

Oh thats new. I know they shed, but I thought they grow using some of the transplanted tissue and whatever bloodflow is around diffusely. I've seen this in a video where someone was arguing about transplanting more or less surrounding tissue in order to feed the initial growth. Your theory also makes sense to me, since even transected hairs come with the white pulp which will glue them in for a while and then shed with no FU surviving. Now i feel a little worse about my progress. Oh well... :eek:

 

I wouldn't worry mate, as long as u went 2 a good clinic you'll get good results

[Redchilli007]

Interesting opinions. I asked becaue I am post op and waiting for the hair to fall but it looks like even if it was longer it would not be dense and the scalp would show.

 

On closer inspection I can see some of transplanted hairs did not increase in lenght or grow at all like some of the others. I read elsewhere on this site that its normal for them to be in a shock state since they have been plucked from your head and moved to another area.

 

Looking at some patient photos that are relevant to my doc I can see similar thin post op looking growth in the 2-3 weeks directly after the transplant and a lot of these go on to produce good results.

 

I think although there is growth straight after the operation and before the shedding of the hair its not normal growth. A lot of hairs are in a state of shock and not growing, the double, triple and multiple grafts may not be realising there full potential and hair in general I think is thicker with lenght and shampoo gives the longer hair a better apperance of fullness than it an give to short hair and there is more to work with.

 

Or at least thats what I'm telling myself. Trying to stay positive

[Mickey85]

 

The problem is when u get these guys having FUE with surgeons that aren't that experienced in FUE (or even a poor strip procedure with an inadequate doc). FUE is technically a lot more difficult and in megasessions (above 2000 in 1 day) is never a good idea IMO, guys like Lorenzo may well do mega sessions but they stage them over a couple of days, which gives a much more predictable result as fatigue in large 1 day sessions can be a real issue.

 

 

 

Lorenzo caps his sessions off at circa 3,000 grafts per day. He doesn't do multi-day sessions and prefers to wait an entire year or more for the result to manifest and the donor to heal before performing subsequent work. Guys like Bisanga do 1,500 grafts per day and do perform multi-day sessions if the patient needs something up to 3,000 grafts etc. The Turkish surgeons are generally much more aggressive and do sometimes 4,000-4,500 grafts in one day! Granted they have techs assisting with the punching, extracting and implanting but I personally believe it is too much for the patient.

[Aftermath]

Lorenzo caps his sessions off at circa 3,000 grafts per day. He doesn't do multi-day sessions and prefers to wait an entire year or more for the result to manifest and the donor to heal before performing subsequent work. Guys like Bisanga do 1,500 grafts per day and do perform multi-day sessions if the patient needs something up to 3,000 grafts etc. The Turkish surgeons are generally much more aggressive and do sometimes 4,000-4,500 grafts in one day! Granted they have techs assisting with the punching, extracting and implanting but I personally believe it is too much for the patient.

 

I wasn't aware of that with Lorenzo, thought I'd heard a couple of people mention they'd had two consecutive day sessions with Lorenzo? I agree that mega sessions aren't the best of ideas with FUE. What are your thoughts to the original question posed by the OP?

[Mickey85]

I wasn't aware of that with Lorenzo, thought I'd heard a couple of people mention they'd had two consecutive day sessions with Lorenzo? I agree that mega sessions aren't the best of ideas with FUE. What are your thoughts to the original question posed by the OP?

 

Lorenzo himself told me via email some time ago about the 3,000 graft figure in one day. He said any more than that and it is too much for himself and the patient as he already works ludicrous amounts of hours in the day.

 

In regards to the original question, I would say that the immediate post-operative 'look' of the density of the grafts is a pretty accurate depiction of the fully manifested result. I'm talking like 2-3 days post-operative where all the hairs have not shed(naturally or through physical intervention by showering etc). Once grown out however(providing the yield is good), the illusion of density is apparent as the layering and cross-sectional placement of the grafts begin to show their benefits.

[Since21]

The Turkish surgeons are generally much more aggressive and do sometimes 4,000-4,500 grafts in one day! Granted they have techs assisting with the punching, extracting and implanting but I personally believe it is too much for the patient.

 

It seems like this forum has been seeing more and more suboptimal results out of Turkey. Wouldn't be my first choice for FUE. Lorenzo, Bisanga and Feriduni still top my list.

[fueshare]

It depends on your balding pattern I think, if you are hairline receder I agree, but you have full MBP then it's a different game. I am a big fan of FUE megasessions. For me, I was at the point where I had to choose between shaving completely or make a big move (4800 grafts, mostly 3s). FUT ruins your shaven look, so it had to be FUE with a small punch size to minimize the scars even if the transplant fails. I don't know how you guys count it, but for me the recovery time from HT is probably 6 months, 2 weeks off work. If you have to do it again, that will be another 6 months. A full year or more spent with less than initial hair. It's a serious fraction of your adult life. Plus, the bigger change, will have a bigger emotional boost I hope.

 

All that being said, of course the doctor has to have demonstrated skill in the megasessions.

[Redchilli007]

I just had a 5000 graft FUE megasession with Dr Koray in Turkey. 2500 on two days.

 

Its a long day for both, usually 8-5:30 each day and Dr Koraly has the clinic running in such an efficent fashion that you are usually spening 85-90% of that time having the work done. Then you have a meals, hairwashes and reshaves etc but its done so quickly and efficently that your stress/pain/tiredness and all the things that come with having a HT are kept to a minimum.

 

I can't express how impressed I was with the clinic. I'm from Ireland and have been to the UK and States before and I know there is an opinon of Turkey being a less developed country with some dubious surgeons but Koray is not one of them and his clinic is as good if not better than anything you will find in the US or UK.

 

I said in another thread that I find it hard to imagine a clininc better set up for HTs as Dr Koray has the whole building is designed just to accomidate HTs and I stand by those comments.

 

Some might say its actually overkill (in a good way) as you have about 7 nurses and the doc in the room with you at various times, all working on either your head or grafts. Its very impressive.

[keysersoze]

I look to be in a similar boat to you may I ask who your surgeon was? My post op is also extremely thin.

[Spanker]

I think some people look more dense grown out and some more dense when they freshly operated on. I don't know the why to that, this it's just what I've observed.

[Rootz]

I thought the density of the hairs right before they fell out shortly post op was much less than the actual final result. At least that's what I remember seeing when looking at before/after pictures. The scabs in the recipient area might give an illusion of density, but if you look at the actual hairs the difference should be night and day with the final result. My guess is many hairs have either fallen out already or didn't continue to grow (and are too small to see before falling out). Maybe the hairs that grew before falling out are the ones that will come back first.

[Redchilli007]

I look to be in a similar boat to you may I ask who your surgeon was? My post op is also extremely thin.

 

Dr Koray Erdogan. I had 5000 grafts. Hoenstly I think we are in the most emotional part of the journey right now and it only natural to worry about every little thing.

 

Dr Koray told me grafts a certain amount of hair per cm2 so I should get the same result as all his other patients and he has some impressive results.

 

When looking at some of his previous patients phots journeys I can see similar progress. Not vey dense right after the operation but good final results.

 

I thought the density of the hairs right before they fell out shortly post op was much less than the actual final result. At least that's what I remember seeing when looking at before/after pictures. The scabs in the recipient area might give an illusion of density, but if you look at the actual hairs the difference should be night and day with the final result. My guess is many hairs have either fallen out already or didn't continue to grow (and are too small to see before falling out). Maybe the hairs that grew before falling out are the ones that will come back first.

 

I read this from one of the mods on here also. Some hairs are frozen and dont grow or fall out early on until the shedding phase. I saw quite a few hairs not growing beside hairs that grew. Most of my new hairs have shed now.

 

The more photos I study the more I have to remember that lenght accounts for a lot. Hairs will double up over the scalp with some lenght and hair being brushed over the scalp and those multiple grafts are not showing there worth early on. I think hair naturally is also he thinnest at the point it emerges from the scalp and when you have some lenght and shampoo it will thicken whatever growth you have allowed your hair for a better result.

 

Some of Dr Korays results are here and you can see some this post ops turn into very impressive results.

 

FUE Gallery - Dr Koray Erdogan

[Mickey85]

Erdogan doing 5,000 graft sessions over 2 days now? Wow...

[Redchilli007]

Erdogan doing 5,000 graft sessions over 2 days now? Wow...

 

Yes. I asked specifically for 5000. I think less was suggested when I sent him my photos but not much, 4400 or 4800 or something. I have a large head so I wanted as much as possible for my first HT.

 

He said I have good donor and a total of 7768 grafts possible so I have just under 3000 left. Whats making me a little anxious is I had a tuft of hair at the front which is holding strong but my temples and behind that have gone. Dr Koray grafted around that patch of hair so its vital it holds strong.

 

I am not on fin or minox but was considering trying it for maybe 12months. Dr Koray suggestes fin but says its entirely up to the patient, he also said the sides are a little higher than the 2%. A document I was given suggests not using Minox until 3 months after the op. Is this normal or could I start it sooner?

 

I think if fin and minox help the health of the grafts it might be worht the sides for a 12 month period to get the most from my grafts.