Liposomol ATP

[JayWalker]

I am using this product after my second procedure, I will report my findings in comparison.

So far it's definitely doing something.

[gobble]

What's it doing?

[JayWalker]

What's it doing?

 

Recipient area seems to be healing quicker and I have no irritation.

Early days to say for sure, but positive so far.

[ATP4Hair]

I am not a physician, but have been involved in medical research for 20 years as a professor at the University of Louisville School of Medicine. My research studied ATPv in wound healing, organ preservation, limb preservation, cyanide poisoning, and hemorrhagic shock, most of which was funded by the NIH.

[Janna]

You can add Shapiro Medical Group to your list.

 

We've been using the ATP post op spray and so far we're encourage by what we see on our patients. The redness from surgery is almost gone within a few days. Amazing what the recipient area looks like even the next day. We've used graftcyte post op spray prior to ATP spray and we were always satisfied but ATP spray brings the post op healing to another level.

[JayWalker]

Whilst my redness hasnt gone, its healing far far quicker than last time.

[ATP4Hair]

ATP is a potent vasodilator that increases dermal blood flow if it can penetrate through the epidermis into the dermal blood vessels. So, for those who do not know, ATP is rarely seen outside of our cells. When it is around, even at micromolar concentrations, it binds to purinergic receptors that are on nearly every cell in your body. The binding of ATP to these purinergic receptors causes changes in membrane potential. In our dermal blood vessels, specifically the A1-A3 arterioles, the ATP binding causes smooth muscle cell relaxation, and thus vasodilation of these arteriole beds.

 

So why is this important in hair growth? As we age, the number of mitochondria available to make ATP decreases, leading to significant changes in the metabolism of actively dividing tissues, such as a hair follicle. Keeping scalp blood flow at levels that maintain the actively dividing cells of a hair follicle is the premise behind Minoxidil.

 

In short:

 

Increased Scalp Blood Flow=Greater potential to make ATP

[tempenet]

if this is the case ATP4hair then can we apply ATP to our scalp to make our hair healthier and stronger? I mean on a daily basis. do you think it will ever be available to the general public?

[joejohns]

I will second your question. I am right now going through terrible shock loss and would be interested in knowing if ATP (I assume it is Adenosine Triphosphate) spray will help in any way?

[gobble]

A few more observations on my part. I'm now almost 6 weeks post-op.

 

I used this stuff and still have a good number of hairs that haven't fallen out. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I remember last time around on one of my follow-ups the doctor plucked some of the transplanted hairs out to make room for the new ones to come through. Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

Also, I'm starting to get pimples already. Last time I think that happened after several months.

Edited January 21, 2014 by gobble

[gillenator]

I am not a physician, but have been involved in medical research for 20 years as a professor at the University of Louisville School of Medicine. My research studied ATPv in wound healing, organ preservation, limb preservation, cyanide poisoning, and hemorrhagic shock, most of which was funded by the NIH.

 

ATP,

 

Thanks for replying and your transparency. I now have a better understanding of your background and wish you all success as this is no doubt one of the more promising developments in wound healing along with the facilitation of blood flow and corresponding yields. IMHO, countless HT patients and others will benefit from this.

 

Sometimes individuals come into these communities with products that appear too good to be true yet your initial posts had so much basis and foundation and scientific truth with verification in the lab.

 

I commend you for your dedication and clinical contributions...keep up the good work!

[greatjob]

ATP,

 

Thanks for replying and your transparency. I now have a better understanding of your background and wish you all success as this is no doubt one of the more promising developments in wound healing along with the facilitation of blood flow and corresponding yields. IMHO, countless HT patients and others will benefit from this.

 

Sometimes individuals come into these communities with products that appear too good to be true yet your initial posts had so much basis and foundation and scientific truth with verification in the lab.

 

I commend you for your dedication and clinical contributions...keep up the good work!

^^^+1

[Dr. Jerry Cooley]

I will add my comments to this thread on ATP since I was involved in its development and application in hair restoration. In 2005, Dr Bill Parsley introduced me to Dr Ehringer after he learned about his ATP research. We were going to study its effect as an additive to holding solutions for hair grafts. Our in vitro work (lab work, not on patients) showed that ATP increased the viability hair follicles kept outside the body using special cellular stains and cell culture. This led to my study in 2008 where I kept a patient's grafts in the refrigerator (4C) for 5 days in a solution of HypoThermosol/ATP and obtained good growth. This is far longer than any researcher has ever done. In the attached photo, the patient's left temple was hairless due to radiation from a skin cancer. We put in 1200 grafts that had been stored for 5 days, achieving over 70% growth, compared to 45% growth for HypoThermosol without ATP and 0% for grafts stored in saline (grafts placed elsewhere in scalp). Prior studies had shown that survival drops to near zero after 3 or 4 days in storage in various solutions. This shows that ATP increases survival during long term storage. But is HypoThermosol/ATP necessary for an average case where grafts are out of the body for several hours?

 

Furthermore, even if HypoThermosol/ATP was the perfect graft holding solution, would this be the end of the story? I think not. After twenty years performing hair transplants, it is my opinion that the two most important factors predicting graft survival are 1) graft trauma and 2) Post operative ischemia (low oxygen = low ATP). I would put storage injury/ischemia-reperfusion injury (what the holding solution would protect grafts from) as less important, so even a perfect holding solution will not correct for graft trauma and ischemia post operatively. So it dawned on me a few years ago that we should be putting ATP in the post op graft spray.

 

The hair transplant procedure is at its core a transplant procedure, specifically a 'free graft' procedure. Unlike an organ transplant in which blood vessels between the graft and body are reconnected, we put these tiny grafts into the scalp and wait several days for the body to build a capillary network around the graft and to supply it with oxygen. So how does it survive? It passively absorbs left over oxygen which is diffusing through the tissue. Normally, this works well enough for the graft to survive and grow. But everyone has different amounts of blood flow, and therefore oxygen, flowing through their scalps. If someone has had prior transplants (unless it was with ACell), they will have even less oxygen due to fibrosis. So applying post op ATP is a way to 'feed' the grafts until they have their own capillary network about 5 days post op. Remember, oxygen is only needed so it can combine with glucose in the cell to make ATP, which is the universal fuel source for cells.

 

In my opinion, the biggest explanation for poor growth at an inexperienced clinic is graft trauma (transection, crushing, dehydration). At an experienced clinic, where graft trauma is minimized, I think the biggest explanation for suboptimal growth is ischemia. So where is the clinical research to prove this claim?

 

To answer that question, you have to step back and consider what kind of a study would be necessary to provide this proof. If post op ATP spray (or HypoThermosol/ATP as a holding solution) improves graft survival, that should be easy to prove with a study, right?. All surgeons (and I mean ALL surgeons) have results that vary. There are so many variables that effect graft survival that even with perfect technique, claiming 100% survival in 100% of cases is ludicrous. So if you draw a bell curve to represent a doctor's graft survival (assuming it was even possible to know this, which it isn't) and assume that ATP pushed this curve to the right 10% (just for the sake of argument). We would need to study 50 patients where we treated half the scalp normally as a control, and the other half with post op ATP. We would need to get all 50 patients to come back in a year (which we never get) and be able to do accurate hair counts over large areas (which is not feasible) and make sure the post op ATP wasn't effecting the control side (which would be impossible since it is a vasodilator and improves blood flow to the whole scalp). So in another words, a proper study is virtually impossible to perform. Furthermore, all of my patients want the best growth possible, not just on one half of their scalp.

 

I'm confident that post op ATP improves the consistency of my results because when I look back over the 8 years of usage, my 'consistency curves' were much tighter when I used it. There were long stretches of time when I could not get it because Dr Ehringer wasn't producing it. It only became apparent to me over time what an important role the post op ATP was playing. Dr Ehringer's liposomal formula is unique in its ability to get ATP into the cell. I tried another liposomal formula of ATP and it did nothing.

 

My colleagues often ask me why they should bother with ATP (or ACell, etc) and my reply is that if you and your patients are happy with your graft survival, then you don't need to worry about it. I'm not telling any doctor they need to start doing this; I am saying that my results have improved by doing this. I have no financial interest in the sale of Dr Ehringer's ATP. If BioLife is able to develop with Dr Ehringer a freeze dried version of his ATP, this will make it more commercially accessible worldwide, and I will have a small financial interest in that product. If a prospective patient wants to use post op ATP spray after their transplant, they can simply ask their doctor to order some from Dr Ehringer. I think they will notice an improvement in healing time, but that is really secondary to the main goal of optimal graft survival.

 

Sorry for the long winded post....

[Since21]

I'm confident that post op ATP improves the consistency of my results because when I look back over the 8 years of usage, my 'consistency curves' were much tighter when I used it.

 

I'm not refuting this claim, but could the improvement in the consistency of your results also be due to your increased experience as a surgeon? Great read, by the way.

[tempenet]

Thank you Dr. Cooley for your feed back. I enjoyed reading your post. hopefully it will be available to us at some point in the future. I am 2 weeks away from my third HT, and I wish I could have the ATP spray post op to add another layer of insurance for my HT result

[Dr. Jerry Cooley]

I'm not refuting this claim, but could the improvement in the consistency of your results also be due to your increased experience as a surgeon? Great read, by the way.

 

That is certainly possible but I don't think so. I realize that without a large blinded clinical study (which is impossible to perform), people will be skeptical. And they have every right to be that way. But then again good clinical studies don't really exist in our field and yet tremendous progress has been made. How can that be? Doctors observe their results, make small changes, and observe the result of these changes.

 

If I had started using post op ATP 8 years ago, and used it on every case since, and my results got better over this time, I really couldn't know whether improved results were from the ATP or from experience. But that's not what happened. Early on, I didn't know whether it was helping, and usage was intermittent over the first 6 years depending on availability. Reviewing my results, ATP usage was a significant factor explaining the difference in observed results.

 

Like many experienced clinics, we go to great lengths to protect our grafts from any trauma. Assuming a perfect graft is placed perfectly into the recipient site, why wouldn't it grow? I believe the biggest reason is ischemia (lack of oxygen = lack of ATP). Doctors who do other skin grafting will tell you that blood flow (ie oxygen and ATP supply) is the major predictor in graft survival.

 

I'm a dermatologist and in the past, I did alot of skin cancer surgery which often required skin grafts to close the wounds. If we do a skin graft on to the face (where blood flow is good), it usually takes and survives. If we do a skin graft on the lower leg (where blood flow is much lower), it often sloughs off and merely acts as a biological bandage until new skin is produced to fill the wound. Years ago, I removed a large melanoma from an elderly woman's lower shin. She had poor circulation and I had every reason to think the skin graft I placed wouldn't survive. However, I rigged up an IV bag with ATP solution that continually dripped over the graft for several days. The graft completely took and after it healed, the only sign we had ever done a graft was a faint circular scar at the margins. The skin in the graft looked like the surrounding skin, which was a much better than expected result. This is one more piece of evidence in my mind.

 

Numerous top hair clinics have started trying post op ATP spray on their patients. I have gotten feedback from many of these (eg Shapiro, True, Harris) on how quickly their patients are healing now. It will take a couple years before these doctors are convinced it is improving survival but that is the nature of our field. The best way for a doctor to be convinced that ATP is doing something is to use it on their toughest cases, eg densely packed grafts into areas with low blood flow (eg scar tissue, areas of previous transplants) and see if their results are better than what they would predict. Dr David Seager, the father of dense packing, would try to finish an area in one pass because he believed his survival was lower in previously transplanted areas. Why? You guessed it: lower blood flow = lower oxygen = lower ATP.

 

Most experienced clinics get good growth. If I get less than expected growth in 10% of my cases, then for me, that is too high. I want every case to turn out perfect and every graft to survive. That is why I use post op ATP.

 

Thanks for your comments!

[hsrp10]

I'm a dermatologist

 

Dr.Cooley, thank you for your hard efforts and research, I am going to request ATP if I ever decide to have another procedure. It seems the results and evidence is there,

 

Sorry for off-topic question, but what do you recommend for scalp eczema after a HT procedure (besides Nizoral)? particularly hard dandruff type or scalp peeling. Is it safe to use face moisturizers etc.?

[Dr. Jerry Cooley]

Dr.Cooley, thank you for your hard efforts and research, I am going to request ATP if I ever decide to have another procedure. It seems the results and evidence is there,

 

Sorry for off-topic question, but what do you recommend for scalp eczema after a HT procedure (besides Nizoral)? particularly hard dandruff type or scalp peeling. Is it safe to use face moisturizers etc.?

 

I generally prescribe clobetasol 0.05% solution nightly till the dermatitis is gone and then used periodically as needed for flare ups. A shampoo called Aqua Glycolic does a great job of getting rid of scaling. Tar shampoo can be helpful for maintenance.

[hsrp10]

I generally prescribe clobetasol 0.05% solution nightly till the dermatitis is gone and then used periodically as needed for flare ups. A shampoo called Aqua Glycolic does a great job of getting rid of scaling. Tar shampoo can be helpful for maintenance.

 

thanks for your quick reply Dr. Cooley, really appreciate your professional advice as a dermatologist.

 

so is it safe to use Clobetasol or even betamethasone valerate in the transplanted area few months after surgery?

I have already ordered the shampoo btw! always looking for new and better shampoos to try

[Dr. Jerry Cooley]

thanks for your quick reply Dr. Cooley, really appreciate your professional advice as a dermatologist.

 

so is it safe to use Clobetasol or even betamethasone valerate in the transplanted area few months after surgery?

I have already ordered the shampoo btw! always looking for new and better shampoos to try

 

In my opinion, using it for a week, then intermittently afterwards should not cause any problems. But you can check with your surgeon to make sure they approve.

[gobble]

Dr. Cooley, do you find that the transplanted hairs tend not to shed as much and, if so, is that a problem when the growth begins?

 

I'm over 6 weeks past my second procedure (with ATP this time) and still have the majority (I think) of the transplanted hairs. That wasn't the case last time.

[ATP4Hair]

Dear All,

 

In accordance with a request from the website administrator I would like to provide you all with my contact information and website link:

 

Dr. William Ehringer

Founder and CEO

Energy Delivery Solutions

3315 Industrial parkway

Jeffersonville, IN 47130

p: 812-920-0596

f: 812-725-9018

 

Energy Delivery Solutions - Home Page

[Dr. Jerry Cooley]

Dr. Cooley, do you find that the transplanted hairs tend not to shed as much and, if so, is that a problem when the growth begins?

 

I'm over 6 weeks past my second procedure (with ATP this time) and still have the majority (I think) of the transplanted hairs. That wasn't the case last time.

 

Yes, I see less shedding and earlier regrowth. Whether or not this happens varies by individual. It's the final result that counts. Don't worry!

[donni]

Dr Coley,

 

is Liposomal ATP available and allowed in Europe?

 

I heart that Nitric oxide is good for blood flow. Do you think it is a good idea to add it with Liposomal ATP?

 

thank you

[nigarishk9]

Are you a representative for a company that manufactures an ATP solution?

manufacturer and more research on liposomal ATP solutions and how good is copper peptides