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What are the options available for the guys who are heading towards NW 7?


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  • Senior Member

Norwood 6 is starting to push it when it comes down to a cosmetically pleasing result in terms of average density throughout the scalp and a hairline that does not starts halfway up the top of the head. Given the average person has about 5,000-7,000(very rough figure) grafts before noticeable discrepancies are present in the donor and that a non-balding person has on average 30,000 grafts(or 100,000 'hairs') in the Norwood 6/7 bald area, you can see that surgeons are working on a very large area with only a 6th of the grafts. Sure they use techniques to give off an illusion of density but that can only do so much. I have seen norwood 7 results done via multiple strips, 3cm wide strip excisions, FUE using 10,000 beard/body and scalp grafts, FUE/strip combos etc etc etc. None have been aesthetically and naturally acceptable(to me). Low Norwood 6s with great donor density/laxity can get by a bit better. I'm talking mainly about deep norwood 7s.

 

I hate to give people bad news but I would rather tell people the truth and have them have their feelings hurt a bit than to have them go into a procedure with the hopes of a natural and aesthetically pleasing result only to be left with a severely scarred donor area, overly tight scalp, an absurdly high hairline, inadequate density, areas like the crown sparsely filled not to mention the issues of potential strip scar stretching from subtracting too much laxity from the donor and the un-natural look when significant body and beard hair is used.

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Can BHT (Body hair transplant) be a helpful method in restoring NW 7 baldness pattern?

 

Those individual naysayers of hair transplantation for Norwood 6/7 lack imagination, perspective, wisdom and probably a loving heart.

 

I started losing hair when I was 17. Within one year I went from Norwood 4 (roughly) to my current state of Class 6/7. The physician said it was from the stress of two children with catastrophic illness. But who knows?

 

To use Umar's words I had a huge area of a "slick scalp" for a long time time.

 

A friend had a hair transplant. He went from Norwood 1/2 to Norwood 0. He was paralyzed with shame and embarrassment due to his hair loss. Frankly I never was embarrassed. There are huge numbers of humans who take vicarious pleasure from the imperfections of others. (I used negative comments as a filter separating the "good guys" from the "bad guys").

 

Reflecting on my friends transplant and as I knew little of the art and science of Hair Transplantation I took no measures to schedule surgery. I said to myself "how can one take 2 square inches of hair and fill 10 square inches of desert scalp"?

 

But I kept reading and studying for years literally.

 

Finally I took the plunge and had 2100 grafts of strip surgery in 2012. Simple Goal - frame the face.

 

Transplanting 2100 grafts to a Norwood 6/7 is "no result" for the Brad Pitt seeking types right? If you cannot look like an eighteen year old it is a waste of time. In logic this error is called dichotomous thinking, either/or reasoning, black or white thought.

 

After the transplant what was the result? Firstly my children (daughters) excitedly stated "Dad you are so handsome!" Remember they only saw me with a bald pate. Now looking at me they see me with a hair lined framed face.

 

A person who did not see me for a lengthy period said I looked 10 years younger. They asked if I had a face lift and tan (huh?).

 

I've been a member of two online dating services. For the first dating service I was a balding person. For the second dating service I had a framed face (post hair transplant). In a year with my balding scalp how many women wrote me about my photo, do you think? None is the answer. In one year not a single woman wrote me complimenting my photo.

 

With the second site I have photos of my framed face. One picture I characterize as my "James Bond look". I am teasing of course.

 

How many communications do you think I get with a framed face?

 

Not a week goes by when I don't get a few compliments of my photos. I exaggerate not.

 

This morning a woman wrote me three messages. First how handsome I am (blush). The second she said my photo was "above the crowd". The third message she lamented that I didn't live in her province.

 

My point is not that I am "handsome" - I am not. In my age bracket women settle for less. My point is I received zero messages with a balding picture. Dozens with a framed face.

 

So discard those negative human beings with perverted, inexperienced views of what looks good. Truly I believe some have serious issues.

 

At this point I am planning my second transplant with about 3000 FUE's. (Hopefully a bit more).

 

I intend to request a technique called side-parting with gradient weighting. Naturally I part from left to right. A side part is okay with me. I am reflecting upon going full court press with the so called "hockey stick distribution".The majority of physicians have been reluctant to entertain either procedure. But education is required.

 

In my opinion extreme Norwood 7's have hope with BHT, saving scalp hair for the hair line. To the observation that BHT looks "unnatural" I ask this. What looks better a balding scalp or a coarser hair filled scalp? I've viewed young folk with hair akin to steel wool. They are happy.

 

Hope this helps. Be of good cheer and hopeful

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Dwight,

 

Enjoyed your post a lot.

 

I plan on internet dating once grown out, as it will be an interesting experiment to have done it with and without hair.

4,312 FUT grafts (7,676 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2013

1,145 FUE grafts (3,152 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2018

763 FUE grafts (2,094 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - January 2020

Proscar 1.25mg every 3rd day

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Dwight,

 

Enjoyed your post a lot.

 

I plan on internet dating once grown out, as it will be an interesting experiment to have done it with and without hair.

 

I take internet dating as a thought experiment. When I was young I had a number of beautiful girlfriends. At 17 a beautiful girl loved me and vice versa. I should have married her as she had a beautiful character. But I personified the definition of stupid.

 

Now this whole world is much crazier. Women have been hurt so much that they are very wary. Emphasize very wary. They want a relationship as much as men with all it's dynamics (read intimacy) but they don't want a hint that you are interested in sex. They know you are but they don't want you to say it. Does that make sense?

 

It is a very sad commentary on our society that judgements are made on physical appearance. But there you go.

 

I return messages to every woman that writes me. To my mind if they took the write I can reply.

 

I am serious here. What does one say to women who write and write saying how handsome I am? In my age bracket it doesn't take much to be considered handsome. But these poor souls are so empty inside that the only thing they can relate to is the exterior. Actually depressing.

 

The other aspect I get numerous compliments on is my profile. I was determined to have fun, be light hearted. I wasn't serious about anything. Example question: "write about yourself" I said "I'm known as Mr. Wonderful. That should say it all". I think somehow you have to let your personality shine. Example question: "what are you looking for in a woman". I wrote "She must ensure that my toast is buttered to the edges. Buttering in the centre of the toast is a firing offence".

 

I was trying to have fun. It turned out that women enjoyed it. Live and learn.

 

By the way the few women who took my breath away would not reply to my messages. I take that as "Honey you have no idea what you are missing".

 

I think a framed face will put you in the game more often but you are still going to have to carry the ball.

 

Lastly I am email friends with a few decent pickup artists (by decent I mean quite good human beings - not sleazy people who give males a bad name). They tell me ASAP go on a date. Meet the woman.

 

Enough preaching.

 

The World is your oyster

 

I am excited for you

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The first photo of the white goateed guy was my "torturer" when my first bald spot surfaced. He used to stand over me with his face 1 inch from my bald spot and stare at the bald spot.

 

When he started going bald he always wore a hat. Everywhere.

 

The poor dear. There is something poetic. Divine justice, eh?

 

The photos are June 2012.

 

The other photos are moments before the hair transplant surgery. I was absolutely terrified. Fecal matter scared.

 

Another photo is immediately after the surgery. I was exhausted. My drugged look is fatigue.

 

The other is a close up of 2100 fresh grafts.

 

The last is August 2013. I don't know why the skin is pink. There is no hair colouring or thickening, or filler or what do you call it. Hair combed straight back, period.

 

This is my first time adding pictures/adjusting sizes with Photoshop etc. I expect a screwup. If so I'll try again.

 

Can't seem to get this going. I add the first. When I add the second it seems to disappear. I'll have to figure it out. Remember women say I'm handsome. They say nothing about being smart.

image.jpg.49a2d5b3cf355a8c4f323a4c35122cf8.jpg

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Dwight. You do make a valid point. The point of this forum is to give those support and honest opinions as to how they should approach their options. Often times, our opinions are selfish and reflect what we would do in a similar situation. However, what we fail to realize, more often than not, is that some are not looking for that full head of hair, or 70 grafts/cm2 with a juvenile hairline. Some are just looking to give a shape to their face. I feel that sometimes those facts are ignored.

 

You do look significantly better in the after pic, by the way.

My Hair Loss Website

 

Surgical Treatments:

 

Hair transplant 5-22-2013 with Dr. Paul Shapiro at Shapiro Medical Group

Total grafts transplanted: 3222

*536 singles *1651 doubles * 961 triples,

*74 quadruples.

Total hairs transplanted: 7017

 

 

Non-Surgical Treatments:

 

*1.25 mg finasteride daily

*Generic minoxidil foam 2x daily

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Dwight. You do make a valid point. The point of this forum is to give those support and honest opinions as to how they should approach their options. Often times, our opinions are selfish and reflect what we would do in a similar situation. However, what we fail to realize, more often than not, is that some are not looking for that full head of hair, or 70 grafts/cm2 with a juvenile hairline. Some are just looking to give a shape to their face. I feel that sometimes those facts are ignored.

 

You do look significantly better in the after pic, by the way.

 

You state my thoughts better than I. My vexation with those of the balding corroded thinking ilk is the repeated "opinions" which do not put air under the wings of Hair Transplant aspirants. My Mom used to say "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all". Hair loss is traumatic for many people. I cannot comprehend why certain buffoons in their considered opinion cannot be uplifting. Befuddles me.

 

You are one year older than my son. He shaves his head. He does not have hair loss. But I see the unstated anguish. I feel for him.

 

At a deep level I believe in non censorship. However on this forum I think there should be an "editor of clear thinking". When a dullard states a downdraft thought the "editor of clear thinking" should express hope.

 

There is no reason for needless suffering. Why cannot there be a community of man loving and supporting one another?

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I am a very high NW (6+ to 7) and I had a HT two months ago with 4800 (FUE). You can see my progress on my profile and the thread I opened. I'll tell you my exact opinion in a year, but for now:

 

1) If you have realistic expectations, good donor area, and a solid surgeon, you can make a significant change. It is one thing to have a high hairline, especially if you're over 30, and completely another to have a "horseshoe look" as I did. It is going from "no hair" to "hair" in your eyes and in the eyes of the people around you, and that matters a lot.

 

2) Shop around and get as much information as you can. Some doctors refused doing surgery on me, others offered me 2000-2500 grafts in the hairline, each had their own opinion. I found a doctor who understood what I wanted and whose team did that for me. I will probably go for another surgery, as long as I have donor supply.

 

3) As for BH, I think it depends on the person and must not necessarily look unnatural, if you have an adequate supply and a skilled surgeon. You need to make an educated decision on that one.

 

4) Even if the HT works out too thin, there are also cosmetic and pharmaceutical aids, and I see nothing wrong in using them if they do the work. If they find a way to clone hair in the future, great, we will have that option, and be able to restore a full head of hair.

 

5) Until that day, however, I think we should work with what we have at our disposal. I have no objections to my FUE, it was virtually risk-free and I have nothing to lose (bitter laugh).

 

Good luck man, I hope this was useful....

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I am a very high NW (6+ to 7) and I had a HT two months ago with 4800 (FUE). You can see my progress on my profile and the thread I opened. I'll tell you my exact opinion in a year, but for now:

 

1) If you have realistic expectations, good donor area, and a solid surgeon, you can make a significant change. It is one thing to have a high hairline, especially if you're over 30, and completely another to have a "horseshoe look" as I did. It is going from "no hair" to "hair" in your eyes and in the eyes of the people around you, and that matters a lot.

 

2) Shop around and get as much information as you can. Some doctors refused doing surgery on me, others offered me 2000-2500 grafts in the hairline, each had their own opinion. I found a doctor who understood what I wanted and whose team did that for me. I will probably go for another surgery, as long as I have donor supply.

 

3) As for BH, I think it depends on the person and must not necessarily look unnatural, if you have an adequate supply and a skilled surgeon. You need to make an educated decision on that one.

 

4) Even if the HT works out too thin, there are also cosmetic and pharmaceutical aids, and I see nothing wrong in using them if they do the work. If they find a way to clone hair in the future, great, we will have that option, and be able to restore a full head of hair.

 

5) Until that day, however, I think we should work with what we have at our disposal. I have no objections to my FUE, it was virtually risk-free and I have nothing to lose (bitter laugh).

 

Good luck man, I hope this was useful....

 

I think your result looks great.

 

The front part of your transplant is superior to the work done on me. With a side part the "layering" of hair over hair creates a high degree of coverage for me. With your higher degree of density at the front, with a side part your front view will be optically 100% coverage.

 

With a side part further back on your head in my view there will be wonderful coverage. I state this because your mid scalp and back graft placement is superior to my front graft placement. I have pretty good coverage (certainly better than a hair less scalp).

 

You have a lot to look forward to. I remember when my hair started really growing in. It was like an LSD trip to see myself in a store window reflection. "Who is that I guy?" I'd ask myself. I'd laugh with glee when I'd realize it was me,

 

It is so much fun. You've lots of fun coming.

 

Also I thank you because you show me potentialities.

 

Take care

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I am a very high NW (6+ to 7) and I had a HT two months ago with 4800 (FUE). You can see my progress on my profile and the thread I opened. I'll tell you my exact opinion in a year, but for now:

 

1) If you have realistic expectations, good donor area, and a solid surgeon, you can make a significant change. It is one thing to have a high hairline, especially if you're over 30, and completely another to have a "horseshoe look" as I did. It is going from "no hair" to "hair" in your eyes and in the eyes of the people around you, and that matters a lot.

 

2) Shop around and get as much information as you can. Some doctors refused doing surgery on me, others offered me 2000-2500 grafts in the hairline, each had their own opinion. I found a doctor who understood what I wanted and whose team did that for me. I will probably go for another surgery, as long as I have donor supply.

 

3) As for BH, I think it depends on the person and must not necessarily look unnatural, if you have an adequate supply and a skilled surgeon. You need to make an educated decision on that one.

 

4) Even if the HT works out too thin, there are also cosmetic and pharmaceutical aids, and I see nothing wrong in using them if they do the work. If they find a way to clone hair in the future, great, we will have that option, and be able to restore a full head of hair.

 

5) Until that day, however, I think we should work with what we have at our disposal. I have no objections to my FUE, it was virtually risk-free and I have nothing to lose (bitter laugh).

 

Good luck man, I hope this was useful....

 

This is a bit off topic but your post prompts my question.

 

Measured from the top wrinkle of your forehead brow how many cm's does this measure?

 

Purists state that this should be 1.5 cm for a person over 30 years of age. Mine is 3 cm. I'm curious what is your measurement?

 

Thanks

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This is a bit off topic but your post prompts my question.

 

Measured from the top wrinkle of your forehead brow how many cm's does this measure?

 

Purists state that this should be 1.5 cm for a person over 30 years of age. Mine is 3 cm. I'm curious what is your measurement?

 

Thanks

 

Thanks for the response and good wishes, Dwight!

 

Just measured, the distance is exactly 3 cm :) The doctor wanted to place my hairline somewhat lower but I asked him to lift it as much as possible. I figured out that the low hairline would be too drastic a change after having high forehead since forever, and second, with the size of my head and the donor supply, I figured out it won't be realistic to expect any good coverage with a lower hairline. Besides I won't be in my 30s forever, and my main goal was anyway to turn on the yes hair/no hair switch, so to speak.

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Thanks for the response and good wishes, Dwight!

 

Just measured, the distance is exactly 3 cm :) The doctor wanted to place my hairline somewhat lower but I asked him to lift it as much as possible. I figured out that the low hairline would be too drastic a change after having high forehead since forever, and second, with the size of my head and the donor supply, I figured out it won't be realistic to expect any good coverage with a lower hairline. Besides I won't be in my 30s forever, and my main goal was anyway to turn on the yes hair/no hair switch, so to speak.

 

Thanks for the measurement. Interesting result, isn't it?

 

I asked the surgeon to lower my front hairline to my eyebrows but he wouldn't go for it.

 

Take care

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Regular Member
Thanks Dwight for the reply..

The problem is my permanent zones are thin and my scalp is all see through from sides and back.

 

what baldness pattern you had before transplant and what was your donor density?

 

Man you are in a tough position.

 

My baldness pattern has been described by various Hair Transplant Surgeons as from Norwood 6 to Norwood 7. Because in my mind I think I am Norwood 2 pre-transplant (kidding) it is hard for a person to self diagnose. I asked my Son to look at pictures of Norwood classes and classify me.

 

I am a late Norwood 6 to early Norwood 7 according to my son.

 

My donor density is below average density. One of my errors, from lack of research was to deal with a surgeon who was at the lower end of the incompetent/competent spectrum. Ideally I should have paid for a densitometer analysis. When she (the person who did the transplant) visually analyzed the donor area she said one side had a higher density than the other side. Hence one end of the donor strip was cut wider than the other end. Upon consideration I do not know which end was wider - the higher density end or the lower end. There were 2100 grafts removed.

 

Because the Surgeon was closer to the incompetent end of the incompetent/competence scale I do not believe 2100 grafts survived.

 

My donor density was a bit under average density. The problem was a disproportionately high number of single hair follicular units. The result is a greater difficulty to achieve the look of greater density. Because my Surgeon had the quality of a higher degree of "twithoodness" she did not group single hairs into multiple follicular units creating the illusion of greater density.

 

You are in a difficult spot. If it were me, I'd research the shite of this matter. I'd read every piece of information available on this site. Then with a higher degree of knowledge I'd start asking for consultations from Surgeons. You'll find that most American and Canadian hair transplant surgeons have little interest in helping you. I think they are earning so much money and possess an inordinate reservoir of arrogance that they will be not forthcoming. After all your case requires extra effort and creativity.

 

If you can afford it book a trip to Dr. Bernstein in New York. Their office will use a densitometer to scientifically analyze your hair loss status. The consultation costs around $300.00 to $600.00 depending on who does the analysis. (Check their site for precise figures).

 

The last person I'd check with is Dr. Bhatti in India. In my opinion he is quite competent. More importantly he is a decent, compassionate and honest Human Being.

 

Keep asking questions. Most folks on this site are helpful. There are a number of party poopers.

 

You probably are going to need lots of body hair grafts. Respected Surgeons state that it is possible to have great results with follicular units from arm pits, beard, chest, arms and legs.

 

Party poopers would state your situation is futile. Their value judgement is if you cannot have a Hollywood leading man hair style give up. I approach the matter from another different position. Maybe use leg and arm hair to frame your face and fill the less dense areas. The coarser hair can fill between these.

 

As for the "odour" of arm pit hair and pubic hair some physicians say the character of the transplanted grafts retain their odour quality. Other surgeons say the grafts change quality. However if the odour remains you will have to be rigorous in hygiene. I was a highly sweating athlete once upon a time. Never did I stink. I discovered showers.

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  • 11 months later...
  • Regular Member

Hi chaps,

 

Interesting thread. I like your views Dwight.

 

I wonder if you knowledgable chaps could weigh in on my case. I am a young lad with advance hair loss (gulp). Easy to think I have no hope.

 

However I am determined to somehow reverse my hair loss. I don't expect a head of thick, lush hair however I don't want to be slick bald.

 

The plan is to use my below average donor for 2000 grafts combined with 2000 BHT (beard)

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I was a Norwood 5a up to four months ago. If I were to believe some suggestions that a Norwood 5 upwards is beyond successful HT help then I'd still be a balding 5a with little prospect of hope regarding a head of hair.

 

So...I guess my very actions (& those of other 5s and upwards) of getting HT states that I disagree with such generalised & sweeping statements. You've got to take each individual case on its own merits Gents.

 

Kindest Regards, Campbell .

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