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New here: 800 grafts for hairline... FUT or FUE??


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  • Senior Member

I want to get 700-800 grafts to improve my hairline (NW 1-2). I'm a 30 yr old male and have been on finasteride for 9 years. Never experienced shedding, just taking it as precaution.

 

I've already seen the only legit HT doctor in my country (AUS) and he recommended FUT as the grafts have a higher survival rate.

 

The big question is now whether I should proceed with it OR get FUE in Turkey. Skimming through this forum, it seems like the place to go.

 

I have a few questions now...

 

In general:

 

How does doctor actually know he's harvesting and transplanting the

agreed number of grafts? After all most doctors charge by the number

of grafts.

 

How does the doctor determine the ideal depth to insert the graft? Is

this decided on a patient by patient basis?

 

Science question:

 

When the grafts have removed the scalp, and not yet transplanted how

do they SURVIVE? Are they put into a special solution? Does it matter

if they are exposed to air/light/temperature? Is there a time limit

for them to survive? E.g. should each graft be transferred within 30

minutes?

 

Given this situation is there preference for FUT or FUE from a

scientific point of view?

 

Regarding FUT:

 

When do doctors use sutures or metal staples? Metal stapels is a big

turn off for me.

 

Is it common practice to position the scar (donor area) into a natural

skin fold on the back of the head?

 

HOw long should I refrain from exercise post op? Could I train arms

and legs earlier since it doesn't impact the donor scar?

 

Regarding FUE (in Turkey with recommended docs):

 

I'm afraid of traveling overseas for a FUE HT, only to find out that

the doctor won't proceed with it because my hair is not suitable for

FUE. In that case would the doctors proceed with the FUT alternative?

 

What are the average rates for FUE per graft?

 

From what I've seen the FUE donor area merely looks like a bad rash

for the first few days post-op. Is this correct?

 

Regarding traveling to a doctor overseas:

 

Since the initial consultation is impossible, given the distance, will

the number of grafts and other details be determined by email?

How does this work?

 

My situation:

 

Is FUT too extreme for less than 1000 grafts? Or would you recommend

it because the graft survival rate is lower.

 

Either way, could I just use my existing fringe to cover up scabs

during the first few weeks of the recovery area?

 

Thank you for any responses in advance! :)

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I would consider FUE if i was you and getting less than a 1000 grafts. I had FUE done in Turkey after emailing and sending pics to the Dr.

There are quite a few Drs in Turkey that are on the recommended list. Price varies between them.

I dont think there is much difference in the survival rates between FUE and FUT to be honest.

I had 3500 grafts FUE and the area they took them from had healed in 7 days. And yes i guess you could disguise it with existing hair.

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In my opinion it would be unwise to choose a more invasive method of harvesting hair for such a minor procedure. There are fue surgeons now who have yields as good as the best strip surgeons. FUE also allows targeting of grafts that are more suitable for hairlines(finer and single hair grafts) where with strip the strip zone contains the coarser hairs in the donor.

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  • Senior Member

Bhatti has not proven his consistency in my honest opinion, I would look at Erdogan and Hakan instead, at least they have plenty of results available.

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Zeo,

The "only legit doc in Australia" told you u gotta do strip because FUE don't survive!???

Are you joking or was the doc joking?

 

What a croc!!!

 

I can't believe the balls on these docs telling u u gotta do strip in 2013! Unbelievable.

 

Of course, Sydney Australia was the birth place of FUE where it started in 1989, which is all of just 24 years ago! And if 40% of HTs stateside are now FUE, can you imagine how many request FUE and then get conned into strip?

 

Well, suffice to say, press FLUSH!

 

Forget about sutures or staples, trico, undermining etc. and start looking for a good FUE doc. The questions you need to ask might be more about punch sizes, manual vs auto, doc vs tech extraction etc..

 

The tricky part for you is that many docs don't wanna deal with such small numbers, but some do. I'd be prepared for some games with numbers, but that's about it.

 

You are suitable for FUE except if you have really fuzzy curls, and even then it can work. (Dont get shafted into strip on account of your 'great laxity'!)

 

The technicalities will not be an issue in ordinary circumstances.

When the doc does the incisions, a tech will be watching and you might hear him/her whispering to him/herself. That us counting the number of incisions. They might go over. Are you worried about them sneaking a few extra on you are upping the bill? Tell them first. If you get some extras they might even be freebies. I wouldn't sweat that one.

 

As for the depth. The techs put the grafts in normally, and normally they'll put them in a fraction high, so that the graft sticks out a little. The scalp is swollen and when it shrinks the grafts will/should come down flush at the correct level. It doesn't always work, but that is the dice you have to roll. Makes no difference strip or FUE but it does make a difference if the techs are not up to par. Again a dice roll.

 

You'll be red and bloody for 3 days, purple til 5, brown another day or two and then by day 8-10 it will just look like a bit of peel and sunburn. Not a big deal.

 

Good luck and for Pete's sake, don't call that doc legit!!

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  • Senior Member

..and another school of thought is to not do anything at all, especially if you are a NW1.

 

There are a lot of examples on here of people chasing the perfect hairline and, for one reason or another, being sorely disappointed.

4,312 FUT grafts (7,676 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2013

1,145 FUE grafts (3,152 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2018

763 FUE grafts (2,094 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - January 2020

Proscar 1.25mg every 3rd day

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  • Senior Member

I would be curious to see pictures of your hair if you don't mind posting them, mostly because I'm curious about the number of grafts. 700-800 grafts is a very small procedure, and in my opinion, unless you are repairing previous work I wouldn't recommend most people have work done for such a small improvement.

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  • Senior Member
Bhatti has not proven his consistency in my honest opinion, I would look at Erdogan and Hakan instead, at least they have plenty of results available.

 

Hi Mickey85,

 

I realize that you are a senior member of this forum and that you are quite knowledgeable in HT precedures and technology. I have also browsed through some of your great contributions on this forum. Have a lot of respect for your expertise and the passion to share your knowledge with others.

 

However, with all due respect, I wanted to ask you to define "consistency" for me since you have mentioned that Dr. Bhatti has not proven his consistency. I have not been associated with this forum for that long but I have yet to find (on this forum or any other forum) a patient of Dr. Bhatti that is/was not happy with the results. Dr. Bhatti performed 416 FUE surgeries in 2012. I am not trying to promote him here but am definitely trying to make sure that he gets fair credit. My intention is not to offend you or anyone else. I am just trying to make a point.

 

Thank you,

California

 

DarlingBuds FUE's profile photo 
 
North America Representative and Patient Advisor for:
Dr. Tejinder Bhatti, Darling Buds Hair Transplant Center, Chandigarh, India.

Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

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If you only need 1,000 grafts, then I would never put a scar on your head and risk never being able to shave down later... Don't even think of strip surgery, in my opinion. Go FUE and don't look back. It's quite a shame that you may have to fly to turkey to get a good hairline and surgery, because I imagine that could cost a lot of money for such a small number of grafts. However, you won't be disappointed.

My Hair Loss Website

 

Surgical Treatments:

 

Hair transplant 5-22-2013 with Dr. Paul Shapiro at Shapiro Medical Group

Total grafts transplanted: 3222

*536 singles *1651 doubles * 961 triples,

*74 quadruples.

Total hairs transplanted: 7017

 

 

Non-Surgical Treatments:

 

*1.25 mg finasteride daily

*Generic minoxidil foam 2x daily

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Thanks for the repsonses. Does anyone know for how long a graft can survive outside the human body? How much time do doctors have to plant it back into the scalp?

 

 

@ scar5 The doctor I consulted also offers FUE but he made it clear that he sees FUT as the gold standard - hence he'd prefer this method. OverallI got the impression that he is not a big fan of FUE unfortunately...

 

He offered to do the job with FUE (30% more expensive) but he told me with FUT, I'd achieve a better result.

 

In general my hair is fine/soft//thin but according to the consultation it would be suitable for FUE.

 

@johnboy71 roughly how much did you have to pay per graft?

 

@great job pic of my hairline attached - I penciled in the outcome I'm trying to achieve. The doctor I saw recommended 700 grafts but I might as well go for 800 while I'm at it.

grafts.gif.05bedcc00ee82c71d43981b1b5ff0847.gif

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  • Senior Member

A lot of strip only doctors find it as the gold standard and are quick to discredit FUE. Remember, although they are medical doctors, they are still trying to run a business and in turn want your money. There are many great doctors out there that are more truthful, thankfully, but still go with the general consensus out there. You are far much better off going with FUE. The healng time for strip can get annoying especially if you live an active life. I would advise that you either don't have a surgery, since your hair is really good, or go with FUE to achieve your ideal hairline.

My Hair Loss Website

 

Surgical Treatments:

 

Hair transplant 5-22-2013 with Dr. Paul Shapiro at Shapiro Medical Group

Total grafts transplanted: 3222

*536 singles *1651 doubles * 961 triples,

*74 quadruples.

Total hairs transplanted: 7017

 

 

Non-Surgical Treatments:

 

*1.25 mg finasteride daily

*Generic minoxidil foam 2x daily

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  • Senior Member

The term 'gold standard' does frustrate me a little. It is used as a generic term, for a global scale.....when surely 'gold standard' should only apply to an individuals needs.

 

E.g. someone in their mid 30s needs 4,500 grafts. FUT is obviously going to be his 'gold standard', because FUE would make no sense because he would be exhausting his donor.

 

Likewise, another bloke in his mid thirties only needs 1,000 grafts to strengthen hairline. Obviously FUE in this case 'should' be his gold standard, because if his loss is stable and it doesn't look like he will have extensive loss, why not go FUE.

 

Again, it comes town to so many variables........but the GS term just gets to me a little.

 

Regarding the op.....I think FUE would be the way to go. I was also a little surprised to see you on Fin for 9 years. Seems very young to start the drug with minimal loss.

2,200 FUE + PRP with Dr Bisanga - BHR Clinic, 22-23 August 2013 - http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171950-my-fue-2-200-prp-dr-bisanga-bhr-clinic.html

 

Current Regimen:

- Rogaine 5% Foam 2x daily

- Jasons Restorative Biotin Shampoo 2x daily / Nizoral 2% 2x weekly

- Nettle Root 500mg, MSM 1500mg, Biotin 5mg, Multi Vit, Omega 3

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  • Senior Member

ZeoRanger,

 

The pictures you have given I would not even touch your hair.

 

The pictures indicate to me more of a lowering of your hairline and if that is the case, 700- 800 is completely insufficient.

2 poor unsatisfactory hair transplants performed in the UK.

 

Based on vast research and meeting patients, I travelled to see Dr Feller in New York to get repaired.

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  • Senior Member
ZeoRanger,

 

The pictures you have given I would not even touch your hair.

 

The pictures indicate to me more of a lowering of your hairline and if that is the case, 700- 800 is completely insufficient.

 

I was just going to reply with the same sentiments. Most people would give their right follicle for what you've got! It doesn't look like an overly high hairline either.

 

A good thing to do is check the Michaelangelo rule of thirds: The distance from hairline to eyebrows = eyebrows to nostrils = nostrils to chin. Obviously we cant see the rest of your features but if you deviate from the above it will look goofy.

 

For the hairline I would do the calculation: area you want covered in sq cm x 60. The density of the outcome is unlikely to be as dense as your current hairline - something to bear in mind.

4,312 FUT grafts (7,676 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2013

1,145 FUE grafts (3,152 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2018

763 FUE grafts (2,094 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - January 2020

Proscar 1.25mg every 3rd day

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  • Senior Member

MY father has been a NW 3 so I decided to get on finas as early as possible.

 

@ chrisdav how many grafts do you think I need? I want to lower it 1 cm. I read somewhere 50 grafts would be needed per 1 cm^2... about 4 cm ^2 seems enough to improve the hairline.I don't mind keeping the temples a bit. But the main front area should be lowered - with a widow's peak for a change. Just did the measurements - I need 14 cm^2 covered. So if they do 50-60 grafts per cm^2 I'd need 840 grafts approximately.

Edited by ZeoRanger
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  • Senior Member

I don't know exactly as I don't know the dimensions of your head, hair characteristics etc but I think the more hair you do have, the harder it can be but not necessarily to satisfy a patient.

 

The reason being if you are looking to get close to your native density, that will require transplanting at a very high graft/area ratio, more than 50 and the survival rate can potentially be compromised I have read. Some surgeons may advise doing it in two sessions and there are others I have seen will do it in one. I have seen great work done by top surgeons for this although I am personally interested to know the levels of consistency for it.

 

Ideally you want a clinic who can consistently transplant at a high density for the procedure you want providing your appropriate for this of course.

2 poor unsatisfactory hair transplants performed in the UK.

 

Based on vast research and meeting patients, I travelled to see Dr Feller in New York to get repaired.

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  • Senior Member

You would need closer to 1,500 grafts to lower it how you would like in that photo. To lower the hairline just a millimeter needs about 100 grafts, you want it lowered quite a bit. Most ethical surgeons would and should not do it, no telling your future loss and this is just a superfluous amount. You have great hair man, spend the money on a holiday to a tropical destination instead.

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  • Senior Member

I don't consider it that great - made the pic I uploaded was too flattering lol It's a personal thing - it has bothered me all my life and now having reached 30 I think it's the time to take action.

 

All in all I want it lowered about 7 mm on average. But I'd would get more grafts if recommended.

 

Even if I have future loss, I'd like to have low hairline. It's been consistent throught my twenties so either finasteride is doing its thing or I haven't inherited my father's NW3 traits.

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  • Senior Member
You would need closer to 1,500 grafts to lower it how you would like in that photo. .

 

Agreed. ZeoRanger, your proposed hairline looks way lower than 1 cm, unless you have a tiny head (jk). Honestly your hair looks like mine pre hair loss, which is awesome and I wish I still had said hair. There's no visible temple recession plus it's strong and dense (if not coarse/thick). Because of the above, to get results that would even remotely blend/match your natural hair line would require extremely dense packing, and possibly 2+ sessions for nearly double your estimated 800. Even a true 1 cm drop would require approximately 1000 to match your current level of density. I still think you should hold off as others have said, but if it really bothers you: FUE.

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  • Senior Member

Maybe I do have a smaller head coming to think of it...

 

I did the measurements and I'd be happy with an average lowering of about 7mm (less in the temple region; more in the front so I have a more pronounced hairline. At the moment it's almost a straight line).

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  • Senior Member

I would really try and avoid it man. If it does not yield well you will be forced to go through another procedure and another 5 months of shedding, possible temporary shockloss etc. But that's all I will say on this matter, it is up to you.

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