1550 FUE with SMG ARTAS

[Questionmark]

Nowsthetime9, Erdogan in general is a good choice, and so is Demirsoy, but sheesh - 3500 grafts is way too much for your next procedure. About 800 - 1200 would be a conservative approach, considering future hairloss in the most ethical way. 1500 should be enough, and 2000 the upper limit imo. Otherwise you would have used about 5000 grafts for your hairline and small areas at the sides only. Not too much donor left, then, I would say.

 

Regarding the ARTAS, I don`t understand. Has it one single benefit then, if the punch size is either to big, thus problems with the donor punches, or too small, thus problems with graft survival? (It`s most obvious that this is the case, but can`t be written like this on here). And then two days for a procedure of 1300 grafts, for instance? I am sure SMG is as cautious and ethical as it gets, so has very good reasons to do this, hence this seems to be an all time issue with ARTAS. How much do these machines even cost?

 

Sounds like a pretty big fail to me (as expected btw, and I`m the last one to be conservative or against technical progress)...

Edited July 16, 2014 by Questionmark

[Nowsthetime9]

Question, Your right, I believe the ARTAS is proving to be not as successful as first desired and I wish I would have made different decisions regarding moving forward with it however the past is the past and all I can do now is look to the future and research as to what decisons I make next regarding my 2nd HT. I think the major issue were (ARTAS patients) having is not only the fact that we received poor results from the procedure but that somehow these poor results are being twisted around into reasons why it was not a failed HT, but because of other reasons not related to the actual transplant itself such as slow growth, native hair falling out, lack of medications, way we comb our hair, and so on to take the actual focus off the ARTAS procedure. Interesting you say 3500 grafts is too much as Demirsoy estimated 3000 and Erdogan 4000 and from my reaearch Ive come to understand that both doctors appear to have great reputations and the highest of ethical standards.

[Questionmark]

Hmm judging by your pictures (am I in the right thread? Your temples lack density and it needs to be yielded at both sites about 10 x 2 cm each side, or even less?), I really would stay with my estimation, but maybe others could give their opinion on this, too..

[Nowsthetime9]

Question, Here a few more pics that werent posted the Drs were basing their estimations off of.

I cant sem to upload the pics directly so heres the link to the album I just created. Let me know what you think.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/Nowsthetime9/albums/3340

[Questionmark]

Ok, thanks. But yup, 2000 max I think the issues here are not what possibly could be achieved by the next procedure, but as it has to be planted into relatively dense areas partly, that no native hair gets shocklost at any cost, and also that enough donor capacity remains for future work. I hope you don`t mind I ask Mickey for his opinion.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Questionmark

[Mickey85]

I looked at the pictures just quickly and sadly I can assume that the patient most likely will progress into a norwood 5 or 6...This is especially evident in the photo taken from the back with the hair shaved down as there is a distinguishable difference in density between the entire top of the scalp and the sides and rear... I personally wouldn't recommend a transplant right now, certainly not at 4,000 grafts. Reason being is that transplanting into the area could very well induce permanent shockloss. I really wouldn't exhaust 4,000 grafts right now knowing there is a good chance you will turn into a high norwood. I wouldn't exhaust 1,500-2,000 grafts right now because chances are you will need alot more later down the line and grafts are very finite. Given 1,550 grafts have already been depleted, a new hairline(that is there to stay given the grafts are DHT resistant) has been established by SMG AND further thinning is occurring behind the weak-yield hairline... I think surgery must be thought over very seriously because this could easily turn into one of those cases we see going to Dr Umar ten years from now... I'm really sorry to give you the bad news man... I'm just posting what I see.. Last thing I want is for you to exhaust all your leftover donor, lose more hair and then have to resort to beard/body hair and SMP...

[Nowsthetime9]

No i dont mind. Thank you both for your advice and opinions. So basicaly what your both saying is I should wait for now and see how my hairloss progresses, is that correct?

[Mickey85]

No i dont mind. Thank you both for your advice and opinions. So basicaly what your both saying is I should wait for now and see how my hairloss progresses, is that correct?

 

Yes... I don't think it would be wise to undergo another procedure given you now have a transplanted hairline and showing signs of miniaturization.

[Nowsthetime9]

*Update for 16 months/ SMG 1550 FUE * So far nothing has changed in the past few months. If anything my results seem to be worse as the months progress. Very disappointed and frustrated by this experience not only by the results but as well as with SMG and the professionalism or lack thereof they displayed. Not once have I received a phone call from Dr Paul discussing my case which surprises me due to all the positive reviews I read leading up to my procedure with the clinic and the communication between myself and my "rep" has been a disaster so much that my case apparently has been reassigned to Janna which has been the one bright spot in all of this. She reached out to me to based on my concerns and we are currently in the process of determining a solution based on the agreement on both sides that the procedure was deemed unsuccessful. I will post some pictures soon but at this point I'm looking at moving forward and as to what my next move will be. I have received alot of advice throughout this experience and I'm always open to hear what others have to say or add. Also big thanks goes out to the leaders of The Hair Restoration Network for creating this site to make things easier for all of us going through this difficult journey.

[Forever21]

I feel you man. I had the Artas procedure done by Shapiro Medical Group and I am disappointed with the results as well.

[Janna]

Nowsthetime,

Dr. Paul not calling is my fault........the last time we spoke, you wanted to check on your work schedule before committing to a surgery date. I thought it'd be a matter of days or weeks before you got back to me. You seemed happy with what we discussed so I informed Dr. Paul of our conversations and thought it'd be best to speak to you when we got you scheduled or at least when you came in for surgery. I thought you'd have been booked by now so I apologize for not following up and getting things moving. I've just been busy in surgery. I believe Dr. Paul has reached out to in few different ways now. Will you be scheduling soon?

Forever21,

It's rare for our patients to be unhappy but I'm hopeful that we can resolve your dissatisfaction. I believe Matt has reached out to you.

[hairweare]

I agree that it is quite likely that you will eventually progress to a NW 6. I don't think that your overall appearance is that "bald" to risk undergoing additional procedures when your hair loss has not yet stabilized. If you are not already on finasteride you should strongly consider it. Keeping your hair relatively short on top and closely cropped on the sides and back can go a long way in camouflaging the effects of the thinning hair.

[fisher4man]

I feel you man. I had the Artas procedure done by Shapiro Medical Group and I am disappointed with the results as well.

 

Robot collects the grafts into a water-filled suction tube with negative pressure, hair follicles may be damaged more than with the other techniques. But this is theoretical knowledge, the time will judge the pros and cons of the robot. It seems to me now as a good advertorial tool to allure the clients.

[Janna]

fisher4man,

 

It looks to me that you are confusing the Artas Robot to the Neograft device. The Neograft is not similar to the Artas. The Artas will score each graft and then the grafts are pulled out manually by hand. Shapiro Medical no longer has the Artas. We're using either the dull punch or the sharp punch depending on each patient.

In our hands, we felt the small drill by hand using the sharp or dull punches to be the best for our patients.

[Forever21]

Janna can I have your email please.

[fisher4man]

fisher4man,

 

It looks to me that you are confusing the Artas Robot to the Neograft device. The Neograft is not similar to the Artas. The Artas will score each graft and then the grafts are pulled out manually by hand. Shapiro Medical no longer has the Artas. We're using either the dull punch or the sharp punch depending on each patient.

In our hands, we felt the small drill by hand using the sharp or dull punches to be the best for our patients.

 

 

Sorry but confused more,

 

What is the meaning of "scoring the grafts"? And, why did you give up using Artas Robot.

 

And, which Robot you use now, and how it works, Is this Neograft you use now?

[Janna]

Janna can I have your email please.

 

janna@shapiromedical.com

[Janna]

Sorry but confused more,

 

What is the meaning of "scoring the grafts"? And, why did you give up using Artas Robot.

 

And, which Robot you use now, and how it works, Is this Neograft you use now?

 

When a punch is made, it scores (cuts) the skin. Once the round cut is made with the punch, then the grafts will need to be pulled out.

 

No, we are not using Neograft. We use a motorized device to make the punches and pull the grafts out by hand.

 

At our clinic, we felt we were able to better adapt to each patient with our motorized device than with the Artas Robot.

[wings]

I'm excited to be coming back to SMG on 12/1. They are the best practice available in the USA by far and always try to do the right thing for their customers. I have had 2 procedure's this will be my 3rd. I have had both the Artas and the Motorized hand drill with different results. I wasn't pleased with the results from the Artas and am happy they have deducted that option. I just feel with such a delicate procedure a hands on approach creates the necessary precision needed for the most natural result. With that said i do feel the results with hand drill were superior. Most of the growth from the Artas occurred after 12 month mark for me. In terms of comfort and technique, the Hand drill is definitely my preferred choice.

[Janna]

Wings was back at SMG two weeks ago. We took some photos of his result from 2 fue procedures with us. Here is a link to his photos he posted last week:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177779-amazing-result-shapiro-medical-group.html

[Nowsthetime9]

Update on my procedure with SMG-

I recently had the chance to get back to SMG and have my final consult with Dr. Paul Shapiro and staff. I ended up feeling that I received poor growth from my procedure and wanted to speak in person with Dr. Paul so we could determine the outcome of my case in greater detail. Dr Paul explained to me that he felt I had received a positive result and that I had indeed received growth and accomplished what was set out to begin with. I disagreeed and to make a long story short that is where we pretty much left things. Agree to disagree. He explained that patient interpretation played a factor in what was set out for however I felt it strictly came down to the procedure itself and the ARTAS method that was used produced failed and poor results. Whatever the actual reason was/is, SMG took the proper steps to fully understand that I was unhappy with the way things turned out and they did a good job with listening to my concerns in moving forward. That was a big factor in me deciding to go with SMG in the first place. Their reputation for customer satisfaction and service. I plan on having another procedure in the near future with Dr. Lorenzo, Dr Konior, or Dr. Edrogan to finish what I set out for. From my research those are three of the best HT doctors in the buisness right now and why not go with the best. Good luck to all those who travel the long and rough road of hair transplant recovery and I will be posting some final pics soon.

[wazaam]

So SMG didn't offer to repair/touch up the areas that you were concerned with?

[Nowsthetime9]

Yes they did however I declined. Ive seen too many "homeruns" with the doctors I mentioned so I decided that Im going to move forward with one of them.

[mav23100gunther]

Good luck with the next surgery. All three are great, and I keep reading great things about Konior. My top 3 for my next procedure (2nd) are Konior, Ron Shapiro, and Rahal. Please keep us updated on whom you decide to go with.