Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted December 21, 2013 Author Senior Member Share Posted December 21, 2013 I feel the same man. Im on month 6 now and really cant tell a difference and my hairline does appear to be getting worse too. I hope things improve soon. I thought Id be way further along then this and this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member avivalasvegas Posted December 21, 2013 Regular Member Share Posted December 21, 2013 I would agree that I am quite disappointed with my hairline as well. There are days when I think it was better 3 months ago. This is something I intend to raise to SMG but I want to give them the time that they have asked for. That being said, there have been several positive developments: New hairs sprouted up until the 8 month mark. Quite late compared to other procedures but that seems to be the trend with ARTAS. Since month 9, my grafts appear to be thickening and I am seeing some recovery from the shock loss. Yesterday, in fact, I couldn't see any scalp for the first time. Not a bad result for being an estimated 25-30% away from the final outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted December 21, 2013 Author Senior Member Share Posted December 21, 2013 What was the time they said? 18 months? Glad to hear that your hair seems to be improving even if its just a little. I too am wondering if this is something to do with ARTAS not producing results and if it thats the case SMG should definetely be let aware of what is going on. The wait continues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member avivalasvegas Posted December 21, 2013 Regular Member Share Posted December 21, 2013 I would definitely say that the result is very noticeable but the hairline is not yet as desired. Dr. Paul Shapiro did state that it would take more than a year...sometimes up to 18 months. I'm prepared to give them to month 15 before getting worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted December 23, 2013 Author Senior Member Share Posted December 23, 2013 Do you have any recent pics vegas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member avivalasvegas Posted December 23, 2013 Regular Member Share Posted December 23, 2013 Yup. Check my ARTAS titled thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelwestv Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I had Senile Alopecia and which caused my hair to thin more and more. My baldness really ruined my early age esteems. Anyway now I am hapy with the results after my hair transplant surgery at Seager hair transplant centre in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted December 30, 2013 Author Senior Member Share Posted December 30, 2013 Michael, do you have any details and or pictures before/after of your procedure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member avivalasvegas Posted December 31, 2013 Regular Member Share Posted December 31, 2013 Looks like planted marketing post. Moderators will likely get involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted December 31, 2013 Author Senior Member Share Posted December 31, 2013 Your prob right. It did seem like a random post not related to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Forever21 Posted January 29, 2014 Regular Member Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) My hairline isn't great either. I'm not sure it is because of ARTAS but most likely because they did not give it the proper amount of attention. Edited January 29, 2014 by Forever21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Janna Posted January 29, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi, We understand that there are some issues of growth/concerns with few of our patients who had the Artas used. No matter what type of procedure we do at SMG, we take utmost care in achieving satifactory outcomes . Please contact Matt or myself so that our physicians can review your files objectively with proper pictures and surgery data. If there is an issue of yield with the Artas, we'd certainly like to know about it. Aside from few posters here, the feedback we've been getting from our Artas patients have been positive. There is a conference next week with Restoration Robotics and all the physicians using the ARTAS, it'd be good to present our cases whether it's positive or negative. When we first started using the Artas, the main concern we were hearing was the size of the punch, that the dull punch size was considered too big and therefore it may create unexceptable donor scars. We started and still maintain our cautious approach in using the Artas. We generally start off the two day FUE procedure by using the Artas the first day. If the grafts look good under the microscope we'd proceed, or switch to SAFE if the extractions were difficult. The second day we'd use the SAFE method to even out the extraction pattern and get remaining grafts needed. Patient Care Services & UK Patient Advisor for Shapiro Medical Dr. Ron Shapiro, Dr. Paul Shapiro and Dr. David Josephitis are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. http://shapiromedical.com/info@shapiromedical.com http://shapiromedical.com/contact/request-a-consultation/janna@shapiromedical.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 10, 2014 I will be posting pics soon as I just hit my 8 month mark. Nothing has really improved lately. Still crossing my fingers that these next few months show something promising. Hopefully im a late grower as they say. Janna, when and where is the conference going to be with Dr. Shapiro? I would love to go and speak with him in person. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 14, 2014 It would only let me upload one picture so Ill try to post more later. This picture actually makes it look better than it really is. What do you guys think? Am I over reacting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 14, 2014 Here is a before and after I created. I just hit 8 months post op. Definetley some improvement but not what I expected after 8 months. Im still hoping for more growth. I guess only time will tell but already looking at planning a second procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hairshopeing Posted February 14, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted February 14, 2014 It's very difficult to tell as the before picture is wet and combed to expose the weakness but the after is combed to discuses it and is dry!! That said you've got great hair anyway by the looks of it so if you need a top up I'm sure youv plenty of donor and your current situation is great hair wise!! Only you will be able to tell and it's wether your happy or not that counts!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thats true. Ive been combing it different now to cover up the weak areas. Ill try to post more pic to give more of a fair assesment. Thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Doug Monty Posted April 10, 2014 Regular Member Share Posted April 10, 2014 Hi, We understand that there are some issues of growth/concerns with few of our patients who had the Artas used. No matter what type of procedure we do at SMG, we take utmost care in achieving satifactory outcomes . Please contact Matt or myself so that our physicians can review your files objectively with proper pictures and surgery data. If there is an issue of yield with the Artas, we'd certainly like to know about it. Aside from few posters here, the feedback we've been getting from our Artas patients have been positive. There is a conference next week with Restoration Robotics and all the physicians using the ARTAS, it'd be good to present our cases whether it's positive or negative. When we first started using the Artas, the main concern we were hearing was the size of the punch, that the dull punch size was considered too big and therefore it may create unexceptable donor scars. We started and still maintain our cautious approach in using the Artas. We generally start off the two day FUE procedure by using the Artas the first day. If the grafts look good under the microscope we'd proceed, or switch to SAFE if the extractions were difficult. The second day we'd use the SAFE method to even out the extraction pattern and get remaining grafts needed. Hi Janna, This just sounds crazy to me. Can you please go into more detail on the problems which you encounter using the Artas. 1. It takes you two days to do a 2000 graft procedure using an Artas? 2. You state you Generally Start off a two day procedure using the Artas? What makes you switch back and fourth between the Artas and the Safe scribe. Your Doctor has said in prior posting that the Artas is superior. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/170216-artas-fue-transplant-dr-paul-shapiro-2007-grafts-3.html 3. Can you show us some examles of the bad grafts you get using the Artas. What makes the grafts look bad. Is it the Double punch technique or is it the proding of the grafts to get them to come out of the scalp? 4. By your statement it appears that no matter what the quality of the grafts are you use the Safe Scribe to even out the extraction pattern on the second day. Can you please explain this more, it does not make sence to me if the Artas is a superior system that you would need to go back to very old technology. 5. It seems to me that your practice is promoting the Artas but are actually still relying upon the bulk of the procedure to be performed by the Safe Scribe as you state you use the safe scribe on the second day (Again your words not mine). 6. If the Artas is this difficult to get quality results with one of the best hair docs in the world is this because of the system, training or patient? 7. When the Artas was first designed there a reason why the Dull punch was large. It worked better with a larger punch. However patients/doctors want a smaller punch. Did forcing to go to a small punch due to patient and doctor demand force an unknown quality issue with the Artas? Thus causing bad grafts and the need to continue to use the Safe Scribe. I am looking forward to your answers, Best Regards, Doug Note: I work for NeoGraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Janna Posted April 18, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted April 18, 2014 This just sounds crazy to me. Can you please go into more detail on the problems which you encounter using the Artas. You're saying our cautious approach to using new devices sounds crazy?? We don't switch over to the SAFE very often, in fact, perhaps once or twice in a year timeframe. The problem we encounter has more to do with the patient's tissue. If you do any extactions you'd know not all scalp tissue is created equal. The really soft tissue or when a patient has lots of cowlicks, it may be more challenging but that’s an issue with all FUE devices. You have to keep in mind that we're still in the early stages of using the Artas. It the donor supply was unlimited, we might be more footloose and fancy free with our approach but since it's not, we approach it more cautiously. Just because we're more conservative and cautious with new devices doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the device itself. 1. It takes you two days to do a 2000 graft procedure using an Artas? Our standard protocol from the beginning with our FUE program has been to schedule any cases above 1200 for two days, no matter which device is scheduled. Our physicians do not like to "rush" our fue procedures. It doesn't have to take 2 days but we schedule it as such just in case. Many of our FUE cases are complete after 1 day. So, it's no different with Artas. 2. You state you Generally Start off a two day procedure using the Artas? If the patient is scheduled for the Artas then we start off the first day with the Artas. We don't necessarily stop at 1000 grafts - it may be 1400-1600 in the first day. In the two day procedures regardless of Artas or SAFE, we like to do the bulk of it the first day. What makes you switch back and fourth between the Artas and the Safe scribe. Your Doctor has said in prior posting that the Artas is superior. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...-grafts-3.html If you go back and read more carefully, our physicians have said the reason why we acquired the Artas is because the Artas has the "potential" to be superior - they did not state it's superior. And the reason why we only do one day with the Artas is because like with all new devices, we want to approach it slowly to make sure it is indeed the superior technique. This is the protocol in which we started and haven't changed it yet. It's likely to change in the future as we're ever changing. 3. Can you show us some examples of the bad grafts you get using the Artas. What makes the grafts look bad. Is it the Double punch technique or is it the proding of the grafts to get them to come out of the scalp? Do you have some examples of the bad grafts you get with the Neograft or are they all the same? We don't get bad grafts from the Artas. As I said in my previous post, we'll switch to a different device if there are any problems but it's not often and certainly not on a regular basis. 4. By your statement it appears that no matter what the quality of the grafts are you use the Safe Scribe to even out the extraction pattern on the second day. Can you please explain this more, it does not make sense to me if the Artas is a superior system that you would need to go back to very old technology. It's important to point out that we don't consider the Safe Scribe to be "very old technology" as you do. SAFE has been our preferred choice for a long time after trying out many devices, including the NEOGRAFT device. We have seen some sharp punches that we like in the right hands - like Dr. Lorenzo's technique and Dr. Dorin's sharp device. We also like Dr. Cole's sharp punches. There are benefits with many devices but it really matters who uses them. The pattern in which the grafts are extracted can be evened out using the Artas, however, there are sections on the head that's more difficult for the grids to be secured due to shapes of the heads, thus the reason for going over the difficult areas of the head with SAFE method. 5. It seems to me that your practice is promoting the Artas but are actually still relying upon the bulk of the procedure to be performed by the Safe Scribe as you state you use the safe scribe on the second day (Again your words not mine). We don't promote one fue device over the other - our patients come to us knowing which device they prefer. We had a special one-time promotion when we first acquired the Artas for few months but it was never our goal to switch from one device to the other. We want to utilize the devices that produce the best results in our hands. We'll also use some sharp punches when it calls for it. We feel it's important to stay on top of new devices and techniques. 6. If the Artas is this difficult to get quality results with one of the best hair docs in the world is this because of the system, training or patient? How many quality results have you presented so far? I think that you need to read again more carefully the threads and what we've stated about the Artas and Safe. We've never said it's difficult to get quality results using the Artas. From the very start we made a conscience decision to use the Artas only on the first day - not because there were any problems or that we couldn't complete a case using only the Artas. There are many clinics using the Artas that will do 3000-4000grafts in one day. But it's because that's the protocol they have. Our protocol is different because we want it to be - not that one is superior over the other, it's just our choice. 7. When the Artas was first designed there a reason why the Dull punch was large. It worked better with a larger punch. However patients/doctors want a smaller punch. Did forcing to go to a small punch due to patient and doctor demand force an unknown quality issue with the Artas? Thus causing bad grafts and the need to continue to use the Safe Scribe. We've reviewed our patients with the Artas and we feel they achieved expected yield and results. The only issue may come from being conservative with the number of grafts than what the patient may have expected once the grafts came in. Again, it's not an issue of yield but a difference in expectations. Patient Care Services & UK Patient Advisor for Shapiro Medical Dr. Ron Shapiro, Dr. Paul Shapiro and Dr. David Josephitis are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. http://shapiromedical.com/info@shapiromedical.com http://shapiromedical.com/contact/request-a-consultation/janna@shapiromedical.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member wazaam Posted May 17, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted May 17, 2014 Is there any updates that could be provided in regards to the final outcomes of these SMG ARTAS cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hsrp10 Posted May 17, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted May 17, 2014 between Artas and Neograft etc., I think it is currently smart to advise patients seeking FUE to go with manual FUE at an experienced clinic, until these automated processes can develop and mature to a reliable level seems currently a patient is saving time and money at potentially the risk of poor yield if going with automated FUE go dense or go home Unbiased advice and opinions based on 25 plus years of researching and actual experience with hair loss, hair restoration via both FUT & FUE, SMP, scalp issues including scalp eczema & seborrheic dermatitis and many others HSRP10's favorite FUT surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr Hasson, Dr. Rahal HSRP10's favorite FUE surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr. Bisanga, Dr. Erdogan, Dr. Couto (*indicates actual experience with doctor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member wazaam Posted May 17, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted May 17, 2014 I always was under the impression that the Artas FUE was a two day surgery. This doesn't seem to be saving much time for the patient compared to other procedures? Other than the lower introduction offer initially for the Artas procedure the pricing is roughly the same was my understanding. Some clinics I have seen the cost to be even higher when having the Artas procedure performed. I would be interested to see the final results of these Artas cases so we could see how things ended for the patients in the earlier posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Nowsthetime9 Posted June 19, 2014 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 19, 2014 Well its been a year since my 1550 FUE procedure with Dr. Shapiro and the SMG group. Nothing drastically has changed in the last few months. If anything I continue to thin more and more as time goes on. I was hoping for much more with this procedure however it was only 1550 grafts. Iam hoping to get into the SMG office for a year post op eval soon as Iam interested to hear what they have to say. Im already planning another procedure. This time Im going to head overseas to Turkey and go with Dr. Erdogan or Dr. Demirsoy. Both doctors have quoted me an estimated 3500 grafts. Below I have attached the link to my new picture album. I will add some more in the following days. Hair Restoration Social Network - Hair Loss and Transplant Photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member wazaam Posted June 19, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted June 19, 2014 Thanks for updating your progress. It does appear that the left side is really lacking any density. As several have now stated the Artas seems to be producing mediocre and inconsistent results based on the recent postings. Please keep us posted on your 1 year post op eval. We would like to hear what SMG thinks about your result. Dr Erdogan has been producing some fantastic FUE results. You should be in good hands with either one of the docs that you mentioned. Best of luck in getting the results you are seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hsrp10 Posted June 20, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2014 agreed, continue to tell your story so others realize robotic FUE is not the optimal way to go and I hope you get repaired by a great manual FUE surgeon! I would choose Erdogan from those two, good luck man go dense or go home Unbiased advice and opinions based on 25 plus years of researching and actual experience with hair loss, hair restoration via both FUT & FUE, SMP, scalp issues including scalp eczema & seborrheic dermatitis and many others HSRP10's favorite FUT surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr Hasson, Dr. Rahal HSRP10's favorite FUE surgeons: *Dr. Konior, *Dr. Bisanga, Dr. Erdogan, Dr. Couto (*indicates actual experience with doctor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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