Bad FUE scaring? lets see the pics.....

[GNX1]

I continue to hear people speak about bad FUE scarring and therefore newer cutting edge procedures are being promoted like (HST). of course there are other benifits with HST such as a greater donor supply but that's not the question here.

 

I have searched many forums as well as the internet and just dont see the evidence to support the claim that FUE causes bad scaring as a whole.

 

we are all well aware of how bad a FUT procedure can look over time as the scar stretches for many patients but where is the overwelming evidence that FUE causes bad easily noticable scaring?

 

of course the body will produce a scar anytime the skin is cut as it heals itself. there is no debating that. its a medical fact. but, where are all the bad FUE scaring pics?

 

im not saying they dont exist but I am having a hard time locating any.

 

and if there are some how many are there compared to how many FUE procedures have been performed? of course many grow their hair long and therefore we would not see any evidence of scaring.

 

so lets see em?

[chrisdav]

This link may get removed but here is an example of poor fue scarring.

 

(Outside link removed - sorry guys! Please see the example posted by Joe below)

 

I would not expect to have scarring like this from a good FUE surgeon.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Future_HT_Doc

[GNX1]

great thanx. thats probably as bad a FUE scarring as I have seen and it still looks far better then even a good healing FUT imo.

 

the fact is a lot of people just dont have densely packed hair on their head and even tho whoever performed this FUE obviously took too many grafts out too close to one another id bet the majority of the population (untrained FUE eye) would hardly notice this over harvesting.

 

it would have been nice to see this patient with his hair grown out a little to see the difference of essentially being shaved vs. grown out slightly. and also it would have been nice to have some info on how many grafts were actually taken from this patient.

Edited December 19, 2012 by GNX1

[Mickey85]

Hot damn! The link chrisdav posted shows really bad fue scarring. The scars themselves arebt too bad but they are so close together that the missing follicles are really noticeable. Of course he is shaved down. A good fue doctor would not let this happen.

[chrisdav]

It is very informative of FUE from the representive of a clinic that does great FUE.

[Jotronic]

Here you go. 3400 by a well known FUE doctor.

 

 

I'd like for you to clarify your statement..

 

we are all well aware of how bad a FUT procedure can look over time as the scar stretches for many patients

[chrisdav]

That doesn't look good. I thought FUE was scarless :rolleyes:

I have got poor fue scarring on the left side of my head.

 

Personally I would rather have a strip scar than that, and how do you revise something like that?

Edited December 19, 2012 by chrisdav

[Jotronic]

MP,

 

Not necessarily. Scar tissue is different than skin tissue in that it is more porous so sometimes SMP ink does not take well to it, same goes for strip scars. The ink can bleed out and become a splotch rather than a dot. Sometimes it will do this, other times it won't.

[michaeljames]

Hello Everyone,

 

I am finding this thread interesting on FUE scarring. However I think an important factor is missing to better the understanding in regards to scarring from FUE; that is the method of extraction of the follicular units. Is a mechanical system being used? Or perhaps a robotic system versus a manual system is being implemented in the cases posted here. A systematic clarification with organized photo array would be more helpful.

 

Could someone offer a comparison between types of FUE extraction and the scarring post surgery. The details of how long post surgery and perhaps mapping in contrasting colours the points of controversy would be or useful. Looking forward to more input from others. All the Best, Michael

[Mickey85]

Here you go. 3400 by a well known FUE doctor.

 

 

I'd like for you to clarify your statement..

 

Joe does the well known fue doctor practice fue exclusively?

 

I agree that the picture joe posted is very bad fue scarring. I dont wanna turn this into a fut vs fue thread so ill leave it at that.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Mickey85

[orlhair1]

The reality is that with any surgery there is going to be scarring and everyone will have some variation in their scar results even at the hands of top surgeons. Everyone heals and scars individually. So, whether it is FUE or FUT, some will have far better scar results than others. I think the best that one can do is go to a top surgeon where the chances of a poor scar are minimized. In my opinion, both FUT and FUE are producing some outstanding results on a consistent basis. The decision of which to use has many factors to consider. I have had FUT with a very successful result and scar. Next month I am having an FUE procedure for some additional work.

[GNX1]

Here you go. 3400 by a well known FUE doctor.

 

 

I'd like for you to clarify your statement..

whats there to clarify?:confused: over time many FUT scars can and will stretch horribly. ive seen it for the last 10-15 years. they may look great at first but over time some stretch.

 

how often do you se FUE patients going to FUT surgeons to repair their scar after a HT surgery?

 

this thread isnt about FUT so try to stay on topic or create a new thread if u want a comparison. im simply looking for poor FUE result photos to give those a better understand of what poor results can and do look like.

[cargo65]

whats there to clarify?:confused: over time many FUT scars can and will stretch horribly. ive seen it for the last 10-15 years. they may look great at first but over time some stretch.

 

how often do you se FUE patients going to FUT surgeons to repair their scar after a HT surgery?

 

this thread isnt about FUT so try to stay on topic or create a new thread if u want a comparison. im simply looking for poor FUE result photos to give those a better understand of what poor results can and do look like.

 

I agree with you GNK. Are scarring issues related to FUT apparently new news to some in the world of hair transplantation?

 

No.

 

The reality is FUE/FUT are surgical procedures that cause trauma to the skin and thus can leave scars dependent on any number of variables. It is accurate to say though that by in large, FUE allows for less noticeable scarring, especially for those who desire to have closely cropped hair. In other words, all things being equal, that if two patients with the same skin and hair characteristics received HTs (FUE & FUT), and both surgeries went as expected, the patient that had the FUE procedure should be able to cut his hair much with a much closer grade and higher up his scalp and sides than the patient with the FUT procedure.

 

It's also misguided to post a loaded description like "...this is from a well known FUE surgeon" as if to subtly lay some blame at the surgeon's feet. Every patient has their own unique physical characteristics that can affect the final results. It would be just as misguided to post a picture of a FUT patient with a stretched out scar due to poor scalp laxity or condition (ex: keloid) and simply say "...here's a result from a well known FUT surgeon in Canada..."

[chrisdav]

I would say most of the guys I have seen that have scar repairs are usually from outdated techniques.

 

Remember strip has been around and evolved since early 1950's as far as I am aware, so there undoubtedly going to be a lot more guys that do need fixing as some of the cases from the poor outdated techniques that are documented are horrific.

 

There are guys now that do have scar revision of some kind from the latest technique I imagine but far fewer and far less for a scar closure from a world leader such as Hasson & Wong.

 

I am not having an arguement about the two procedures, but anyone looking at potential hair restoration surgery should have an open mind towards both procedures, and not just be fully focused on one or the other as they both have their positives and negatives.

 

I also think that the topic that is not brought up enough is what would a donor area look like if it is completely exhausted from Fue, as baldness in general is progressive. I can imagine it would look thinned and shredded, but maybe I am wrong. It would be nice to see some images of that.

Edited December 25, 2012 by chrisdav

[cargo65]

I would say most of the guys I have seen that have scar repairs are usually from outdated techniques.

 

Remember strip has been around and evolved since early 1950's as far as I am aware.

 

There are guys now that do have scar revision from the latest technique but far fewer and even less from a world leader such as Hasson& Wong.

 

I not having an arguement about the two procedures, but anyone looking at potential hair restoration surgery should have an open mind towards both procedures, and not just be fully focused on one or the other as they both have their positives and negatives.

 

I also think that the topic that is not brought up enough is what would a donor area look like if it is completely exhausted from Fue, as baldness in general is progressive. I can imagine it would look thinned and shredded, but maybe I am wrong.

 

Absolutely, patients should consider the pros/cons of both techniques, and in my opinion FUT offers the best option of the two in terms of yield, cost and results.

 

Having said that, FUE is a viable method, especially for someone who wants to keep a very low cropped haircut. In my opinion, a lot of FUT practitioners and their patient counselors fail to grasp that. I believe they sort of think "if you're gonna go through the trouble of getting hair transplanted, why would you want to shave (crop) your hair off?" Obviously, there are number of reasons. For me, I have some diffuse thinning with a little bit of recession in the frontal-third. I have thought about the idea of getting FUE to restore/reframe my hairline with the idea of later shaving my head and getting scalp pigmentation once my balding progressed to the point that I couldn't mask it. I like that alternative much more than having a FUT procedure only to eventually be left with whispy thin coverage on top and an ear to ear smiling donor scar that would prevent me from shaving my head. That's just me though...

 

I don't believe the strip method has been utilized quite as long as you've stated (1950s). Ironically, I believe a lot of surgeons in the 1970s/80s were using a more archaic form of FUE (if it could be called that) that caused the doll-like, punch hole-sized, pluggy look we all grew fearful of.

 

FUT will leave a scar though. Now, because of advanced suture techniques, the scars have become more refined, but every ethical hair surgeon will tell you that you'll end up with a scar. For those who plan on keeping their hair at a longer length, it's not an issue and typically unnoticeable.

Edited December 25, 2012 by cargo65

[Mickey85]

I agree with you GNK. Are scarring issues related to FUT apparently new news to some in the world of hair transplantation?

 

No.

 

The reality is FUE/FUT are surgical procedures that cause trauma to the skin and thus can leave scars dependent on any number of variables. It is accurate to say though that by in large, FUE allows for less noticeable scarring, especially for those who desire to have closely cropped hair. In other words, all things being equal, that if two patients with the same skin and hair characteristics received HTs (FUE & FUT), and both surgeries went as expected, the patient that had the FUE procedure should be able to cut his hair much with a much closer grade and higher up his scalp and sides than the patient with the FUT procedure.

 

It's also misguided to post a loaded description like "...this is from a well known FUE surgeon" as if to subtly lay some blame at the surgeon's feet. Every patient has their own unique physical characteristics that can affect the final results. It would be just as misguided to post a picture of a FUT patient with a stretched out scar due to poor scalp laxity or condition (ex: keloid) and simply say "...here's a result from a well known FUT surgeon in Canada..."

 

Thank you!!!!

 

Jotronic's post did have a slight undertone to it. Stating 'by a well known surgeon' is vrry vague. Armani is a well known fue surgeon but his work is generally bad. Umar is a well known fue surgeon whose work is generally great. What exactly is 'well known'? It doesn't always mean 'good'.

 

 

Post up a bad fut stretch scar and watch the fut reps defend fut and blame the patients own physiology instead of the technique or doctors skill.

[chrisdav]

I do apologise Cargo. It was not routinely being performed as far back as I quoted, but I think that was when the first surgery was carried out.

[cargo65]

I do apologise Cargo. It was not routinely being performed as far back as I quoted, but I think that was when the first surgery was carried out.

 

No need to apologize at all.

 

Cheers!

[MAGNUMpi]

Lets see some pics of FUE with the hair grown out and noticeable shredding or over harvesting. This guy probably wears his hair a little longer in real life.

[Mickey85]

Lets see some pics of FUE with the hair grown out and noticeable shredding or over harvesting. This guy probably wears his hair a little longer in real life.

 

 

Hmmm that might be hard to find. Fue clinics arent going to show you their own bad scarring much like an fut clinic wont show you theirs. Most of the time when we do see fue scarring is when the patient goes for repair at another clinic but they usually only take pics shaved down to emphasize that fue does scar(which is does). I do have to say that the 3400 fue case joe presented is very bad. His donor is absolutely ruined and the game is up for him. Its a surprise that h&w agreed to perform strip on him as his donor is vastly depleted but it may have been the only option.

 

I do believe fue to be superior to fut as a technique with less drawbacks but it is not perfect.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Mickey85

[Jotronic]

Merry Christmas to everyone and I hope you are all having a fantastic day! Today, I feel fat:)

 

GNX,

 

whats there to clarify?

 

What I wanted you to clarify was your entire statement. You said..."we are all well aware of how bad a FUT procedure can look over time as the scar stretches for many patients...".

 

What I am aware of is that if the procedure is done poorly then poor scarring will result. Further to that, a donor scar from FUT will continue to stretch when there is too much tension but they do not stretch over the course of years or decades. They stretch until the amount of tension present has lessened to a point of physical equilibrium. This usually takes about a year but it can be a bit more or less depending on how much tension is present at the time of closure.

 

For donor wounds that are closed well, and this is expected when one goes to a top clinic, then the donor wound is usually closed under little to no tension and the resulting scar is usually final within six to eight months. Regardless, your statement may appear to the uneducated that donor scars from FUT continue to stretch in general and do so over a very long course of time. This is untrue so I wanted to be sure this was not misunderstood.

 

how often do you se FUE patients going to FUT surgeons to repair their scar after a HT surgery?

 

More than ever. Repair cases make up about 25% of all of work. Usually this is from older plug cases and other FUT cases but FUE cases are inching up in the ranks.

 

this thread isnt about FUT so try to stay on topic or create a new thread if u want a comparison.

 

With all due respect, GNX1, you were the first to mention FUT in your initial post. I was simply addressing something you said.

 

im simply looking for poor FUE result photos to give those a better understand of what poor results can and do look like.

 

And I provided you with one. I have more but they are not necessary.

 

Cargo65,

 

I hope you are well during this holiday.

 

The reality is FUE/FUT are surgical procedures that cause trauma to the skin and thus can leave scars dependent on any number of variables. It is accurate to say though that by in large, FUE allows for less noticeable scarring, especially for those who desire to have closely cropped hair. In other words, all things being equal, that if two patients with the same skin and hair characteristics received HTs (FUE & FUT), and both surgeries went as expected, the patient that had the FUE procedure should be able to cut his hair much with a much closer grade and higher up his scalp and sides than the patient with the FUT procedure.

 

I fully agree with you but with clarification. I think it bears mentioning that the idea of "much shorter" is relative. How much shorter is "much"? Two buzzer grades? Three? Four? Surgeon skill and patient healing are not the only factors. It also has to do with donor density, where the strip is removed and color contrast.

 

I get a lot of emails and phone calls and many of the people that reach out to me ask me about FUE. I think FUE is fine if one understands the reality of FUE. One of the questions I ask these people is why they are interested in FUE. The answer is the same, because they don't want a strip scar and so they can shave their head as short as they want to. This is logical. I then tell these people to ask the FUE surgeon of their choice if they will guarantee that they will be able to do as they wish, just like they told me, to buzz their hair as short as they wish. To date, no surgeon I'm aware of will guarantee this. Why is this?

 

It's also misguided to post a loaded description like "...this is from a well known FUE surgeon" as if to subtly lay some blame at the surgeon's feet.

 

Cargo65, make no mistake about it, there is nothing misguided about my statement. You simply misunderstood as I was not laying blame on the surgeon. Rather, I was pointing out that this was not from a back room, no name operation. The blame does not go to the surgeon but rather rests solely on the technique.

 

It would be just as misguided to post a picture of a FUT patient with a stretched out scar due to poor scalp laxity or condition (ex: keloid) and simply say "...here's a result from a well known FUT surgeon in Canada..."

 

I FULLY agree with you but the problem is that this happens all the time and is one of the great double standards in hair restoration today. FUE clinics THRIVE on showing bad donor scars from no name clinics that operate on the fringe. Look on any FUE clinic website and you will see some sort of comparison with strip scarring. They mention no strip scars and show something that looks pretty bad and then they fail to say what the conditions were that caused such scarring. They simply want you to immediately shake off the prospect of FUT and only consider FUE. That is why you see so many "clinics" offering FUT, even clinics that never did hair transplantation before. If FUE was so difficult to perform as so many experts claim then why are so many more clinics now offering it? Because it is easy money and an easy sale. "No scars", "non-surgical" all sound fantastic!

 

I hope this clarifies where I'm coming from and that I was not being misleading or disingenuous.

 

 

Happy Holidays, Mickey85,

 

What exactly is 'well known'? It doesn't always mean 'good'.

 

Point taken, and I agree, well known could be Norton Clinic or Bosley:) Regardless, as stated to Cargo65, I meant well known in that it was not a no name, low quality clinic.

 

Its a surprise that h&w agreed to perform strip on him as his donor is vastly depleted but it may have been the only option.

 

Indeed. He actually had more FUE after this photo was taken and the goal (one of) is to give him better coverage. Patients like this are similar to the older punch plug cases that we've seen and worked on. Laxity wise he's still a virgin scalp and after we had a Skype consult with this patient it was obvious that his laxity is above average. He's like a Shar Pei dog! When we eventually remove a donor strip from him we'll be able to remove a lot of the scarring.

 

Again, Happy Holidays to all of you and Happy New Year!

[GNX1]

What I wanted you to clarify was your entire statement. You said..."we are all well aware of how bad a FUT procedure can look over time as the scar stretches for many patients...".

 

For donor wounds that are closed well, and this is expected when one goes to a top clinic, then the donor wound is usually closed under little to no tension and the resulting scar is usually final within six to eight months. Regardless, your statement may appear to the uneducated that donor scars from FUT continue to stretch in general and do so over a very long course of time. This is untrue so I wanted to be sure this was not misunderstood.

 

for many patients the scar does stretch over time. even if its done properly by a qualified surgeon. but ur right it doesnt for all and I certainly wasnt trying to insinuate that.

 

the old "Punch" scar is nothing like FUE so yea some who had punch scars would need fixing but I wasnt referring to the punch method. the punch method is decades old so why you would be referring to the punch method I have no idea.

 

no where did I mention the punch method. I mentioned FUE not needing repair like FUT may need over time for certain patients and ur well aware of that so leave the punch method to another thread. once again, try to stay on topic here.

Edited December 26, 2012 by GNX1

[Mickey85]

Thanks for the detailed reply and clarification Joe. You mention thay no doctor can garuntee a patient will be able to shave down to a grade 1 or 2 after an fue procedure. But i dont think you will find any doctor can garuntee a 1mm scar after fut either or that the scar wont stretch. I do believe on that fue will let you shave down closer on average.

 

You are right in that most fue only clinic will post pics of bad scars on their websites but no all bad scars are from bad clinics. I have seen stretched scars from ALL the high end clinics. And lets face it, every clinic wants to promote their own agenda. Fue clinics will push the faster healing and minimally invasive factors of fue while posting bad fut scars. Fut clinics will play on the yield inconsistencies of fue and fewer sessions needed for large numbers.

[Jotronic]

for many patients the scar does stretch over time. even if its done properly by a qualified surgeon. but ur right it doesnt for all and I certainly wasnt trying to insinuate that.

 

the old "Punch" scar is nothing like FUE so yea some who had punch scars would need fixing but I wasnt referring to the punch method. the punch method is decades old so why you would be referring to the punch method I have no idea.

 

no where did I mention the punch method. I mentioned FUE not needing repair like FUT may need over time for certain patients and ur well aware of that so leave the punch method to another thread. once again, try to stay on topic here.

 

 

GNX1,

 

If you read the thread through you will see that I was not referring to you with my punch graft reference. Furthermore, I am not the first one to mention punch grafts in this thread. Cargo65 did when he was referring to punch plug grafts being a more archaic form of FUE. I was talking to Mickey85 and what I said was absolutely dead on correct. The patient I posted DOES need repair just like a punch patient would. The scars are smaller, the grafts have fewer hairs, but in the end it is the same.

 

I was not saying that FUT cannot stretch if everything is done right. I was saying that FUT scars do not continue to stretch for long periods of time. Once they are done, they are done. Scars in general do not continue to stretch, not on the hand, the face, the scalp or the leg or anywhere else. That is the point I was making.

 

Mickey85,

 

But i dont think you will find any doctor can garuntee a 1mm scar after fut either or that the scar wont stretch. I do believe on that fue will let you shave down closer on average.

 

I agree 100% and in no way was I implying otherwise. It would be foolish to do so. My point is that the marketing is completely skewed and serves to only distract from the point of getting a hair transplant to begin with; results.

[GNX1]

GNX1,

 

If you read the thread through you will see that I was not referring to you with my punch graft reference. Furthermore, I am not the first one to mention punch grafts in this thread. Cargo65 did when he was referring to punch plug grafts being a more archaic form of FUE. I was talking to Mickey85 and what I said was absolutely dead on correct. The patient I posted DOES need repair just like a punch patient would. The scars are smaller, the grafts have fewer hairs, but in the end it is the same.

 

I was not saying that FUT cannot stretch if everything is done right. I was saying that FUT scars do not continue to stretch for long periods of time. Once they are done, they are done. Scars in general do not continue to stretch, not on the hand, the face, the scalp or the leg or anywhere else. That is the point I was making.

 

 

ur right, my apologies. I cant keep up with who is typing what.