The truth about FUE - read this - Dr. Armani, Dr. Rassman and my experience - nasty is the word

[hair_boy]

thanatopsis_awry:

 

First of all, I don't think you need to be a doctor to see the positive photos regarding FUE2, however, they are meaningless and misleading. And you do know why I know this?... because the inventor of the FUE2 procedure told me so. I was told that the FUE2 results are poor. Say no more, as you can't argue when the person that invented the procedure who he himself dismisses FUE2 as second rate. I heard this with my own ears and I challenge Dr. Rassman to say otherwise. It came directly from his lips...

 

Regarding the scar... I've personally seen a couple FUE patients and I couldn't find any scars whatsoever. Sure I saw hair missing in areas but I couldn't at all see any scars. However, I have yet to see a scar less strip procedure. If I had, it would make the decision a no brainer... instead, I've heard of lots of wide scars and scars widening as time goes on. I mean just because you put hair through the scar doesn't mean it's going to disappear... In fact some say as the scar spread it pushing the hair up so it grows in the wrong direction in time..

 

Note that I'm providing a neutral opinion as before you thought I was against FUE. You see, I'm just trying to locate the truth...

[Bill - Seemiller]

hair_boy,

 

There was nothing rude about my post to you. It was a matter of observation.

 

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that Dr. Rassman said that his FUE2 and strip were the same exact procedure (your words).

 

My "job" here is to educate, support, and maintain a fair environment for patients and physicians. You seem to think I'm one sided and here to protect the doctors. I think perhaps you should look back into history where I've challenged a number of surgeons, including those recommended here on their technique and practice. The bottom line is, I call it like I see it.

 

You, on the other hand, appear to have something against anyone who gets paid for a living.

 

I hope people are more forgiving in your line of work, lest they discredit you simply because you get paid for it .

 

Bill

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

What truth are you tring to locate .

You seem to feel you know everything about this industry.

Whats your point . You do know this is surgery ,right ?

If your looking for a doctor thats going to restore all your hair upfront without any signs of a scar in the back then maybe you should go the hair system route.

You obviously read this site religiously so Im also wondering who you think are paid posters that arent identified.

I dont quite understand if your trying to help or just trying to stir up stuff.

Why are we suppose to believe everything Rassman told you . How do we know your not paid by one of his competitors.

For a doc to say he can only do 1000 grafts fue ,then say 7000 strip is hard for me to believe.

Even if it was bait and switch

 

I obviously skipped through a alot of what you posted since I thought you were a bitter patients so could you make me understand what your point is.

Am I suppose to appreciate you or ignore you?

[Mr. GQ]

come on PGP that was plain ignorant and uncalled for. it is so obvious what reference ticked you off but you gotta take it like a man.

 

finally somebody that popped the blue pill and stepped out of the matrix!

hair_boy i agree with you 98% on everything you stated in your previous posts. i like you because you are also a realistic person because you are not one of those guys that is bashing FUE to the point where it's almost rendered useless. i'm grateful for this forum but keeping a keen eye with raised spocky eyebrow and open mind on these forums (not just this one at least 2 more worth checking) is the only way that you will get the most realistic picture on what's going on in this o so elusive HT world. sorting through BS and reading between the lines is the only approach for everyone reading the boards when the research is at forefront imo.

 

intelligent guys like yourself that are not afraid to speak their mind, and are very good at it I may add, is a huge asset to this forum and it's really a breath of fresh air.

 

cheers

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

You calling someone ignorant . Damn!!! I must be messed up then

What was ignorant ?

What part ticked you off? You got to take it like a man

[latinlotus]

Hair_boy:

 

I agree with 90% of what you wrote as you were able to back up your comments with fact/research and were able to sort out all BS regarding FUE hyping. However, i do also think that, due to your marketing background, you may have overreached on some of the comments by some members here.

 

Attacking the credibility of dr. Feller and Bill is really uncalled for since they are some of the most honest, helpful and knowlegdeable individuals out there.

 

It is one thing to be able to point the BS, it is another to sort out the good from the bad information, and i think you failed in that respect.

[Mr. GQ]

You calling someone ignorant . Damn!!! I must be messed up then

What was ignorant ?

What part ticked you off? You got to take it like a man

 

i'm not interested in pissing contest at this time

[Brian in KC]

Theres something called tact that is sadly lacking here, thats the point that most readers/responders are getting at. The majority of the members of this community are looking for legitimate feedback and research. However when it comes veiled in caustic rhetoric including some aimed at the individuals who are dedicating considerable time to keep this web forum active, it undermines the message considerably. The notion that half the posters on this board have agendas or are somehow on a payroll is absurd. I have found this forum immensely helpful both prior to and after my own hair transplant. I have also corresponded with numerous members on this site including ones that had procedures with my own surgeon which was invaluable. I did not sense the least bit of bias or agenda in any of this interaction and will continue to become better informed on the state of the industry/science as well as post op protocol and experience through the HTN. If you don't find value here then don't bother.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Ok bud then dont try evaluate my feelings.

Im not mad at all . I want to know who people think are paid posters.

Im probably in the top 5 of guys that constantly pm Bill trying to expose paid posters and average docs.

I love calling out frauds.

Most of the time he just blames it on my alleged paranoia but Im always looking out for that shit.

Im done basically done in my journey and just want to lead guys to doctors that will give them the best opportunity to achieve the results they desire .

I believe in only a small handful of these docs and thats why I said before I agree with 95% of what he says.

We are not clay figures ,this is real life surgery with unpredictable results but if you research and choose wisely more times then none youll get what was planned .

Thats why its soooooooo IMPORTANT to meet patients, evaluate and RESEARCH your ass off.

[omar77]

hair_boy i too agree with most things u say.I think u should check on Dr Bisanga.

I think he has most pics of FUE than anybody else.I my self have same problem with u.I dont want to have a terrible scar on my head.

I wish u best of luck

[hair_boy]

Bill: You write: "Frankly, I find it hard to believe that Dr. Rassman said that his FUE2 and strip were the same exact procedure (your words)."

 

Please go back and read my posts again, I say this because you are again mis-quoting me. I never said that Dr. Rassman said strip and FUE were the same procedure. He did however say that the follicle survival rate for both procedures was exactly the same but the FUE growth wasn't as robust (another words the hair aren't as thick - I know this because I asked him what he mean by robust) - and if you do read what I wrote, you will also see that Dr. Rassman early said that the follicle survival rate was poor compared to the Strip. This was a contradiction made by Dr. Rassman himself... it was kind of my point right?...

 

Please Grow Please: You write: "For a doc to say he can only do 1000 grafts fue ,then say 7000 strip is hard for me to believe. Even if it was bait and switch"

 

You then write: "I obviously skipped through a alot of what you posted since I thought you were a bitter patients".

 

That last sentence of yours is the problem. I would think you should reframe from commenting since you aren't reading what is written. I mean, I certainly would never comment about what you are writing, if I don't personally take the time to read what you wrote. If you don't understand something you should start by reading what is written first - is that fair?

 

Please go back and re-read the session about the scare tactic. Not only did he say that, he said it multiple times. Note though, that Dr. Rassman did NOT say "he can only do"... instead he said. "He wasn't sure if he could even get 1000 FUE, even over multiple days"... there is a big difference. Also, he did not say 7000 - he said 6000-7000 and when he mentioned that I believe he was talking about my total donor availability vs. one procedure. Simply saying such a blind statement that he might only be able to get 1000 grafts, was surely intended as a scare tactic to complete his bait and switch.

 

And when you do read what I wrote, you will find out that I'm not a patient... I'm a person who wants to get a HT but can't decide on which procedure. Do I take the risk with FUE.. and in the very best circumstance get an 80% follicle survival rate with a risk of going far, far lower below that. Or do I accept the scar from ear to ear and receive a 90-99% survival rate with fairly reliable odds that the follicle survival rate wouldn't go lower. We only have so many donor grafts available in our lifetime - time will go quick and I don't want to make a poor decision now that I will have to live with.

 

latinlotus: 90% is definitely a passing mark...

 

However, I don't believe I've ever attacked Dr. Feller's credibility. I do think you are correct about my marketing background though. I see maybe what others don't see on a certain level. And because of this, when I point out what is actually happening, it may be alarming for some people. Personally I believe it's a good enlightenment to what is actually happening. If anything, it provides a viewpoint not yet founded within this forum.

 

Brian in KC: Not everyone is a paid poster and I was providing legitimate feedback and the experience I had. After all, if I was making this up, Dr. Rassman would have said so in his reply to my post. Instead he just did some damage control.

 

Also, my post is more about the ranges of the FUE follicle survival rate, and how misleading all the information out there is.. That was my first and foremost point... Sure I believe Dr. Armani should fire who ever he has doing his marketing but that was just an experience I went through that really outlines how misleading the information is from some doctors. And regarding the bait and switch fear tactics by Dr. Rassman - well, that was just unprofessional on his part.

 

omar77: I know you mean well with your recommendation, however, Dr. Bisanga is no different than any other FUE doctor. If you don't understand what I mean please read the prior posts as I did explain this in detail.

[javy]

I agree with the point that one should express one's opinion freely and without disrespecting others on this forum... But form what i have read in this thread,i would like to ask Bill a question.. are you paid to write suff and for each and every recommendation of surgeon of the recommendation list ??

[Topcat611]

Regarding blacklisting, it is my own experience and opinion that it goes on. I believe you are now on Dr Rassman's blacklist, but I don't know him and I could be 100% wrong. By blacklisting, I mean he will never perform a hair transplant on you.

 

For you it's not as much a problem. But for repair patients their options are limited.

 

In the past I have felt the need to also call it like I see it. For example I posted on one doctor who showcases a bht patient on his website. It looks like a complete success. But anyone that knows the rest of the story, would know it all fell out 1 year later, and never grew back. This is complete fraud in my opinion. I'm sure this same doctor has had success with bht, so why he showcases this particular patient is beyond me. Could I ever expect to have a bht test with this doctor? I highly doubt it, after my negative posts.

 

Repair patient have to be really careful about what they post.

 

BTW, I would definitely not get a strip. I would say it took about 10 years to get the feeling back on my head. This can be very uncomfortable at times.

 

10 years from now all the techniques of today will seem just as barbaric as the huge plugs, and minigrafts were just 10-20 years ago.

 

If you can wait, then you should wait.

 

Real stories with negative experiences usually get slammed, and the posters burn out fast. This is just my opinion and is not always true.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

That last sentence of yours is the problem. I would think you should reframe from commenting since you aren't reading what is written. I mean, I certainly would never comment about what you are writing, if I don't personally take the time to read what you wrote. If you don't understand something you should start by reading what is written first - is that fair

Isnt this what you did when you judged Bill .

You said you just skip over what he writes yet you have him analyzed him to the fullest.

 

I do wish you the best and if Rassman did in fact do all you say they need to remove the R from his name

[will27]

Originally posted by javy:

I agree with the point that one should express one's opinion freely and without disrespecting others on this forum... But form what i have read in this thread,i would like to ask Bill a question.. are you paid to write suff and for each and every recommendation of surgeon of the recommendation list ??

 

I would be interested in knowing this as well.

 

Despite the tone of some of hairboy's comments, I am glad that he has expressed his views. Further, I think he has the right to read whatever post he chooses to for whatever reason he decides. However, it is important to remember that one can be biased (or paid) and still be right.

 

As a new member I want as much info. as possible and then I will decide (to the best of my ability) what is BS and what is not, so thanks hairboy and Bill.

[hair_boy]

Topcat611: I've met Dr. Rassman and I don't think for one minute he would blacklist me. The reason he wouldn't is because I don't think he's that kind of guy. And if he did work on me, he would do absolutely everything in his power to perform the best work he possibly could. The reason he would, is because that's who he is. He's a person that takes extreme pride in his work... Just because he's a bit sidetracked lately doesn't change who he is...I most definitely believe Dr. Rassman will take my comments as constructive, and in the form of 'tough love' so to speak. In a sense to remind oneself of what's going on. Life is busy and sometimes we get side tracked..

 

Thanks for your comments regarding the strip, hearing your experience is very helpful.

 

PLEASE GROW PLEASE: that's totally out of context.. When I referred to not reading Bill or other paid posters' posts - I most certainly wasn't referring to his replies within this thread. I was talking about when I read other people's threads and he responds... what you are suggesting would be completely disrespectful, I mean, if I'm going to reply to him, the least I can do is read what he has to say. It would be impossible for me to reply otherwise.

[Bill - Seemiller]

hair_boy,

 

What do you do for a living? Do people ignore the quality and intregity of your work because you get paid for it?

 

Bill

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

HAIRBOY You wrote to me , I certainly would never comment about what you are writing, if I don't personally take the time to read what you wrote..

 

Then you say Im a victim of marketing because I believe fue success is different with different clinics.

 

So if you would never write without taking time to fully read Im assuming you would never make that second statement without thoroughly investigating FUE all over the world.

 

Could you then tell use why you feel the success of FUE is the same from every doctor.

[hair_boy]

Bill :

 

This has nothing to do with integrity and certainly nothing to do with a person's quality of performance. I think the problem you have is with the idea that the general public should always be skeptical of what corporations say. Now, when I say corporations, I'm referring to the staff - for example, sales people, consultants and / or the doctors themselves. It's not a personal thing of course. People just want to protect their decisions.

 

I can tell you that I've personally hired hundreds of staff in my life to promote various products and / or services. I would say that 99% of the staff I've hired which didn't have the title of 'sale person', had no idea that I was hiring them to be my pushers.. Now I use that word with a negative twist but that's simply to highlight my point. Of course, all the people that were hired, were 100% professional, providing the best information they possible could.. and because of that, the company that paid me for their marketing plans profited.

 

Maybe that example provides a better insight to my point. And if my point is sharp, I do apologize.

[Bill - Seemiller]

hair_boy,

 

It has everything to do with quality and integrity. Perhaps you better read your words again:

 

To be honest when you write stuff on the board I usually skip it. My reason for skipping what you write is because it's just paid words. Your only job is neutralize any comments, you constantly praise other doctors work and they praise yours... it's like you all understand that there is enough to eat if you just stick together.

 

"It's just paid words" shows you question the integrity of what I say because I'm compensated financially by this community.

 

You also know nothing about my job responsibilities and have the audacity to make statements like "Your only job is to neutralize any comments...".

 

I think you ought to speak on what you know and stop making false assumptions and accusations like:

 

If Bill didn't start off the way he did trying to discredit me for no logical reason, other than because it's his job...

 

hair_boy, you strike me as someone who wants to learn but is generally hostile and overly skeptical of anyone who makes money from the hair transplant profession. Your problem isn't your skepticism, it's that you put everyone in one category instead of separating the bad guys from the good ones.

 

Bill

[hair_boy]

Please Grow Please:

 

I don't know why I respond to you... I don't mean to appear rude but you simply don't read what I write and then you make comments that are completely unrelated to anything. Please Grow please would you simply read all the threads... the answers to your questions are within those threads and you most defiantly will see that I made no such statement as you are suggesting here: "Then you say Im a victim of marketing because I believe fue success is different with different clinics."

 

Again, I don't mean any disrespect by saying so... I'm just trying to improve the fairness regarding your thoughts.

 

Bill: I stand behind those comments. I can only say again that if my points were sharp - I do apologize. You should also note that your comments in your first post to me, were completely baseless and for that reason I hightlighted your response with such clarity.

[lanthanos]

Please Grow Please knows more about hair transplants than most doctors do.

 

This is an interesting topic all around.

 

Hairboy you make some good points. I am glad to see that, imho, this thread is softening in tone. People are relaxing, a little bit, their initial hard attitudes.

Hairboy, I think your topic is very good for opening dialogue. Like most here, I don't agree with everything you say, but some good points. It's very good to be skeptical. You are struggling with a decision we all struggle with, FUE or strip. It's not an easy choice, there is no right or wrong answer. It depends on what you want, what your expectations are, your hair characteristics, and yes, it does depend on doctor quality. Some doctors know the limitations of FUE and take the extra care and precautions, some don't.

 

I do agree with some other posters that there are good guys out there, and Please Grow Please is one of them. He has done more research than anyone I know of.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Ok, it's time to end this thread. It started out ok, but it just keeps getting more and more negative and accusatory as it progresses. A healthy debate is one worth having, but so much negativity and insulting defeats the purpose of educating and supporting the members of this community.

 

I think playing a game of he said/she said is ridiculous. In my opinion, Dr. Rassman has been forthcoming that his FUE2 procedure still often can't produce the same optimal growth yield as strip. If hair_boy heard something different, I suspect there was a misinterpretation along the way.

 

Hair_boy,

 

I'm growing tired of your toxic and contradictory comments. You seem to have no problem collecting money for your work yet dismiss the hard work of this community and quality doctors just because we are paid for what we do.

 

I expect your next post to be more respectful and without conflict or it will be your last.

 

This topic has also run its course and it's time to move on.

 

Bill