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Dord

Experiences with Soy, Tea, and other supplements for Hair Loss

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I have peruse this site for a while now, and though it was best to join so I could interact with the community. If you need to gain access to certain studies I can help with that as well.

 

I wanted to see if anyone has had any experiences with soy or tea and reduced hair loss.

 

--While it does not seem to reduce hair loss, Corvettester's experience with Biotin (http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/163314-corvettesters-biotin-experience.html) is encouraging, and I will start taking this.

 

--Personally I have tried saw palmetto for over a year (450mg) and while I saw reduced hair loss and zero side effects, I am going to move on to other treatments. However, I would not discourage its use. One study's (Potency of a Novel Saw Palmetto Ethanol Extract, SPET-085, for Inhibition of 5α-Reductase II) review of the literature indicates that "Clinical studies of SPE have been equivocal, with some showing significant results and others not. These inconsistent results may be due, in part, to varying bioactivities of the SPEs used in the studies."

 

The above study indicated success in reducing the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. It is attached!

 

--No relationship was found between Vitamin D levels and alopecia in a 2008 study(Does degree of baldness influence vitamin D status?)

 

--Vitamin E did not help reduce alopecia in one study (High-dose alpha-tocopherol as a preventive of doxorubicin-induced alopecia.) However one cannot rule out the effect of the anti-cancer drug as a confounding factor.

 

--Spearmint seems to help reduce hirsutism in women by reducing free testosterone (Effect of spearmint (Mentha spicata Labiatae) teas on androgen levels in women with hirsutism.) Here is the abstract:

 

Mentha spicata Labiatae, known as spearmint and Mentha piperita Labiatae, known as peppermint can be used for various kinds of illnesses in herbal medicine and flavoring in industry. M. spicata Labiatae grows on the Anamas plateau of Yenithornarbademli town of Isparta, located in southwest part of Turkey. In this town, clinicians thought that consumption of tea steeped with M. spicata or M. piperita caused a diminished libido. Because antiandrogenic effects of spearmint and peppermint were found previously in rats, it was decided to observe the effect of this herbal tea on the androgen levels in hirsute women.Twenty-one female hirsute patients, 12 with polycystic ovary syndrome and 9 with idiopathic hirsutism were included to the study. They were took a cup of herbal tea which was steeped with M. spicata for 5 days twice a day in the follicular phase of their menstrual cycles. After treatment with spearmint teas, there was a significant decrease in free testosterone and increase in luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone and estradiol. There were no significant decreases in total testosterone or dehydroepiandrostenedione sulphate levels. Spearmint can be an alternative to antiandrogenic treatment for mild hirsutism. Further studies are needed to test the reliability of these results and the availability of spearmint as a drug for hirsutism.

 

--Soy and tea. The only study I found (Soy phytochemicals and tea bioactive components synergistically inhibit androgen-sensitive human prostate tumors in mice.) indicated success in reducing dht with black but not green tea. I have attached the study. Here are some interesting extracts:

 

Combined effects of soy phytochemicals and tea on serum

testosterone and DHT concentrations. Mice treated with

black tea tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P 0.05), suggesting that black tea

may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5-

reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more

bioactive DHT. Green tea tended to increase serum testosterone and DHT levels by 73.8% (P 0.14) and 194% (P

0.076), respectively. The combination of SPC (Soy extract) and green tea

reduced serum levels of DHT (P 0.05).

 

...

 

Several in vitro and in vivo studies have shown that green

and black tea polyphenols have chemopreventive effects on

prostate carcinogenesis (16,18,27). Studies of tea polyphenols

suggest that epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) is the major

bioactive component in green tea and less is present in black

tea. Black tea also contains other tea polyphenols such as

theaflavins and thearubigins (28). Multiple studies also suggest

that components in dietary soy have anticarcinogenic effects (Fig. 2D), suggesting that black tea may have bioactive components that inhibit the conversion of testosterone to DHT,presumably via inhibition of 5-reductase in this SCID-LNCaP animal model. It is unclear whether black tea theaflavins, EGCG and/or other components are responsible for this function in vivo.

 

On the other hand, green tea did not reduce the serum levelof DHT, but instead tended to increase it (P 0.076) (Fig.2D), and we found that green tea treatment did not inhibittumor growth (Fig. 1A). Green tea contained more EGCGthan black tea (Table 1), and studies have shown that EGCGinhibits the activity of 5-reductase (38). These results derived from our animal model suggest that, although EGCGmay be a potent antitumor agent in green tea and inhibit5-reducatase activity, green tea contains other constituentsthat may counteract EGCG’s antitumor activity, in part bycounteracting its modulation of 5-reducatase activity. Further research is required to identify these constituents andstudy their effects and/or their interactions with other components on prostate cancer. Our results demonstrate the importance of evaluating the benefit of whole tea products,rather than just isolated tea catechins or EGCG, on prostatecancer prevention because other tea constituents may playimportant roles.

 

Green tea combined with SPC reduced total testosteroneand DHT levels (Fig. 2A, B), suggesting that interactivemodulation of androgen levels is one of the important mechanisms for the synergistic prevention of prostate cancer progression by the soy/green tea combination. This study supportsthe use of appropriate combinations of bioactive dietaryagents, such as soy and tea, as effective nutritional regimens forprostate cancer prevention and treatment.

 

 

Has anyone has any experience with soy and/or black tea?

J. Nutr.-2003-Zhou-516-21.pdf

Potency of a Novel Saw Palmetto Ethanol Extract.pdf

Edited by Dord

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While it appears no one has had any experience with soy/ black tea, I have included these into my diet for a while (but not green tea). I'll wait about another month and report if my DHT blood levels have decreased.

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Hey Mate;

 

I am a natural health fanatic in many ways; I will always opt for the non traditional solution in favor of the organic holistic type of solution. I mean I am your classic gluten free, don't care if it taste like hay, green energy type of guy. However there is not any compelling research or evidence to support black tea or any herbal remedy lowering DHT like the FDA approved medications. If there truly were such a remedy you can bet that a major pharmaceutical would have bought the rights to produce and market it. So, I am with you and laud your effort but the best thing anyone can do is to consult with a qualified physician like those recommended on HTN and decide on a prove medical approach for their hair restoration. All the Best!


Michael James is a Patient Advocate for Dr. Parsa Mohebi, who is recommended on the Hair Transplant Network; and not a physician. Visit Us On: Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | LinkedIn

 

Comments give here are only for intellectual consideration and in no manner to be construed or accepted as medical advice. It is important to seek the advice of a physician in all medical circumstances including hair restoration, dietary or others directly or indirectly related to the subjects in this forum

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Thanks for the input. I am in no way denying that the effectiveness of the FDA medications; However, the reason why there is no compelling research to support or deny the use of black tea and/or soy in reducing DHT levels in humans is because none have been conducted in humans as of yet. Never should the lack of research in an area allows us to make conclusions--doing so in my profession would be inexcusable. As partially mentioned above, several studies have showed the anti-androgen properties of spearmint in humans. Given the side-effects sometimes mentioned with the use of the current FDA approved medications, there is a need to investigate the alternatives.

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Soy may be a significant help for hair loss because it reduces DHT, but I wouldn't recommend that any men eat it due to its other negative hormonal effects. For example a study at the Harvard School of Public Health found that those in the highest category of soy consumption on average had 41 million less sperm per milliliter than men who avoided soy altogether. (Soy food and isoflavone intake in relation to sem... [Hum Reprod. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI)

 

Additionally, girls who were fed soy as infants had a significantly higher risk of early puberty (Early-life soy exposure and age a... [Paediatr Perinat Epidemiol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI). While they didn't study boys, I think it can be reasonably inferred that there would be some negative effect in relationship to the feminizing aspects of soy - this would go for men as well (especially when considering sperm count). After hearing these two studies, I find the risks of soy definitely outweigh the positives, especially when there are other options that don't have the side effects.


David Rodgers, MS Nutrition

Nutritionist, Hair Loss Author

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Thank you for your input. While I agree that soy intake may be an issue for younger men who plan on having children, the research appears mixed. A 2009 study found that "Semen parameters, including semen volume, sperm concentration, sperm count, sperm percent motility, total motile sperm count, and sperm morphology, were not significantly affected by consumption"

 

(Beaton, L., McVeigh, B., Dillingham, B., Lampe, J., & Duncan, A. (2010). Soy protein isolates of varying isoflavone content do not adversely affect semen quality in healthy young men. Fertility And Sterility, 94(5), 1717-1722.)

 

Another study, a meta-analysis, found soy to not have a significant effect on testosterone or free testosterone. However, it seems that they did not measure dht levels.

 

(Hamilton-Reeves, J., Vazquez, G., Duval, S., Phipps, W., Kurzer, M., & Messina, M. (2010). Clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men: results of a meta-analysis. Fertility And Sterility, 94(3), 997-1007.)

 

A study that did measure DHT levels in regards to soy intake found that it decreased in a group of people given soy supplements. Despite this, "No changes in the serum levels of estradiol and total testosterone were detected after 3-month supplementation."

 

(Tanaka, M., Fujimoto, K., Chihara, Y., Torimoto, K., Yoneda, T., Tanaka, N., & ... Hirao, Y. (2009). Isoflavone supplements stimulated the production of serum equol and decreased the serum dihydrotestosterone levels in healthy male volunteers. Prostate Cancer And Prostatic Diseases, 12(3), 247-252.)

 

Other, better options do exist for hair loss, but the scare that soy will feminize men seems overly exaggerated. The problem with inferring an effect in men in the second study mentioned above is that women already have higher levels of estrogen than men. I don't think it is safe to infer from a study of only girls to boys and then men. Boys and men obviously differ in their hormone levels.

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Yes, I agree that studies are mixed, and no one should be drawing firm conclusions yet.

 

This being said, if some studies are indicative of negative effects, than I stay on the side of caution and avoid the potential for harm. I believe that this is the safer thing to do. There are definitely no studies saying that it is dangerous to avoid soy, nor should any ever be expected. You are correct that it wouldn't be safe to infer conclusions from girls to men if the study were in regards to a treatment protocol, because a treatment protocol could have safety concerns. However, this is in regards to an avoidance situation, and therefore it is definitely safer to err on the side of caution.

 

Additionally, most soy products are highly processed, and are "pseudo" health food in my opinion. I would have less objection to fermented and/or unprocessed soy.

 

This is just my opinion, and I would definitely be curious to see how your experimentation works out.


David Rodgers, MS Nutrition

Nutritionist, Hair Loss Author

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Hi, so I just wanted to clarify: are you saying you can take black tea without the soy? because I would rather do that than combine the green tea with soy.

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Regarding black tea and green tea - the studies look very interesting and promising, but so far they have only been done on mice and test tubes. These may or may not translate to humans.

 

Theoretically, based on the mice studies, DHT levels could go down while general testosterone could go up by taking black tea, meaning that yes, it could be a solo therapy.

 

There have been some soy studies on humans, and it does look pretty clear that they affect hormone levels in a way that is likely to help hair loss. However, some (but not all) studies indicate that soy could have negative health effects such as lowered sperm counts, etc.

 

My recommendation would be to try the black tea and let us know its effects for you. Additionally, you could take pills standardized to have theaflavin (which is black tea's known active ingredient). If this doesn't work, move on to a different therapy, because some work only for certain people.


David Rodgers, MS Nutrition

Nutritionist, Hair Loss Author

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Regarding black tea and green tea - the studies look very interesting and promising, but so far they have only been done on mice and test tubes. These may or may not translate to humans.

 

Theoretically, based on the mice studies, DHT levels could go down while general testosterone could go up by taking black tea, meaning that yes, it could be a solo therapy.

 

There have been some soy studies on humans, and it does look pretty clear that they affect hormone levels in a way that is likely to help hair loss. However, some (but not all) studies indicate that soy could have negative health effects such as lowered sperm counts, etc.

 

My recommendation would be to try the black tea and let us know its effects for you. Additionally, you could take pills standardized to have theaflavin (which is black tea's known active ingredient). If this doesn't work, move on to a different therapy, because some work only for certain people.

 

Hi David,

 

Being very much into holistic and naturopathic options I have found your thread interesting. However to date I can find no clinical research to give merit to the benefit of black or green tea on hair loss. Please advise if you have links to such credible source. All the best, Michael.


Michael James is a Patient Advocate for Dr. Parsa Mohebi, who is recommended on the Hair Transplant Network; and not a physician. Visit Us On: Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | LinkedIn

 

Comments give here are only for intellectual consideration and in no manner to be construed or accepted as medical advice. It is important to seek the advice of a physician in all medical circumstances including hair restoration, dietary or others directly or indirectly related to the subjects in this forum

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MichaelJames - You are correct that they green tea and black tea haven't been studied directly on hair loss. However, many people extrapolate that if a compound lowers DHT, it is likely (although not certainly) able to help with hair loss.

 

The study that examines black tea, green tea, and soy in this regard (for mice) is Soy Phytochemicals and Tea Bioactive Components Synergistically Inhibit Androgen-Sensitive Human Prostate Tumors in Mice

 

In that study, you can see that DHT levels lowered 72% and testosterone raised 34% in mice treated with black tea alone. If this were to translate to humans (which it very well might, but not for sure), than it could possibly be a help for hair. Green tea was not as positive because it very significantly raised both testosterone and DHT. However, soy was able to completely counter green tea's DHT raising ability when both were given together.

 

So this is still on the theoretical side, but black tea is cheap and safe, so I'd say it's worth a try. It would be nice to have a few people test their own DHT before and after trying various amounts of black tea.


David Rodgers, MS Nutrition

Nutritionist, Hair Loss Author

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I'm with MJ - I have tried every supplement known to man over the course of 20 years and nothing worked

 

My bet is to stick to the proven treatments which show proof , time and time again!


JOBI

 

1417 FUT - Dr. True

1476 FUT - Dr. True

2124 FUT - Dr. True

604 FUE - Dr. True

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My views are based on my personal experiences, research and objective observations. I am not a doctor.

 

Total - 5621 FU's uncut!

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I would agree that if you line up a single natural therapy against a single drug therapy, most often the drug will have far more noticeable benefits. However, if you combine several natural therapies (not necessarily all supplements), often you find results that rival or surpass the drugs without the side effects.

 

I personally have never used a hair loss drug or topical drug. Using only a collection of natural therapies (diet changes, supplements, and natural topicals), I continue to get great results - see my before and after pictures above this post, next to my name.


David Rodgers, MS Nutrition

Nutritionist, Hair Loss Author

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I cannot say I agree with you as the majority of these "natural" treatments have little if any documented truth. Studies aside, I have personally tried so many of these without any marginal results ( I'm talking thousands of dollars) . I might add that "natural treatments" can have side effects as do any foreign object you but in your body, especially supplements

 

Good luck if you are having results but to those out there seeking a legit treatment with proven results, stick to the proven treatments your doctor will suggest.


JOBI

 

1417 FUT - Dr. True

1476 FUT - Dr. True

2124 FUT - Dr. True

604 FUE - Dr. True

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My views are based on my personal experiences, research and objective observations. I am not a doctor.

 

Total - 5621 FU's uncut!

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Of course continue research beyound ancedotal is really necessary for all medical advancements. Also important is the contraindication of any other components with the natural supplement. As a patient advocate I just like to emphase to hair loss patients that at present no homeopathico or naturopathic remedy alone has been proven at the clinical level to effectively stop hair loss or accelerate hair growth. I hope that future research discovers more altternatives. All the Best, Michael


Michael James is a Patient Advocate for Dr. Parsa Mohebi, who is recommended on the Hair Transplant Network; and not a physician. Visit Us On: Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | LinkedIn

 

Comments give here are only for intellectual consideration and in no manner to be construed or accepted as medical advice. It is important to seek the advice of a physician in all medical circumstances including hair restoration, dietary or others directly or indirectly related to the subjects in this forum

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I have not gotten around to reporting the results of my initiative. I consumed either soy milk or black tea everyday for a four months, without finasteride. My dht was 22 with a range of 25-75, and I did notice some improvement hair-loss wise. I have a copy of the tests, but of course my personal experiences are anecdotal. My free testosterone is also on the lower half of the range (300-1080) in general, so more would be necessary for some.

 

I went back in January to get the dht tested on a normal diet and finasteride, but my doctor only tested free testosterone. So I'll have to remind her next time. Obviously I will not be able to compare this to a baseline with no treatment. Note that my doctor did not test free testosterone simultaneously with dht.

 

I hope studies are conducted in the area, though it is obvious that certain interested groups would appreciate nonsignificant data. Lackluster results can be turned into success, as we see with numerous pharmaceutical studies. Nevertheless, I do prefer popping a pill then having to ensure that I consume certain drinks daily.

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Need another reason?

 

Regulation of Male Sex Hormone Levels by Soy Isoflavones in Rats

 

Abstract: Several studies have suggested that soybean intake

is associated with a lower risk of prostate cancer. However,

the mechanism of prostate cancer prevention by

soybeans remains unclear. Because prostate cancer is reported

to have an association with an increased level of

dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and soybean isoflavones are

known to inhibit 5-reductase, which is involved in the conversion

of testosterone to DHT, the effects of soybean extract

and isoflavones on the plasma levels of male sex hormones

were investigated using male rats. In Experiment I, SpragueDawley

rats were fed diets with and without soy flour; in Experiment

II, rats were fed diets containing 2% soy methanol

extract or 0.2% semipurified isoflavones or a control diet.

The study showed a reduction of plasma DHT along with an

increase in total plasma androgen in rats fed soy flour or

semipurified isoflavones for 1 wk. These results suggest that

soy isoflavone intake may reduce plasma DHT level.

dhtsoyconversion.pdf

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