6000 grafts by dr hasson.very sad :(

[bonkerstonker]

Shadow I'm not a we so im not sure why you wrote now we're blaiming the patient as if theres a conspiracy or something I'm saying his weak mind is probably not stable enough to go through a ht I don't think he is mentally tough enough to have one. Most people on here have a little inner strength and restraint it's like a unwritten code not to try naming and shaming before you're hair has had chance to grow.

 

I don't think you should go attention seeking on the forums with 7 posts in the space of a week all saying the same thing when you're only at 6 month post op. It's just common sense I don't remember your ht progress shadow but I bet you weren't being a little girl on the internet at 6 months it's likely you waited out for the 12 month and then aired your concern if you had some.

 

Just look at the title of this thread he made how damaging to a doctor is that and if this turns out to be a top result in 6 month this thread will still be here doing damage when hassons name is searched by newbs. I wouldn't dare be such a puff at 6 month at 12 month is a different ball game though.

Edited May 18, 2011 by bonkerstonker

[hairthere]

"Now we're blaming the patient?"

 

No. Bonker's point is that this particular patient is in a clear state of panic and is overreacting prematurely to a result that is not final. That panic has been validated by posters like yourself who have no real-life experience with HT growth. You're basing your perception/opinion on what you think you have seen on these forums. I think I produced a good number of 6 month results from other doctors that show what results commonly look like at 6 months. Yes, there are some guys who have better results at 6 months, but experience should have taught you that every patient does grow differently. Again, I've had 3 HTs, and not once was I happy with my 6 month results. But I understood the process and that it was better to sit tight, voice any concerns to my doctor, post my results objectively, and then let the chips fall and react accordingly.

 

"A reputation duly earned over years should not be lost on account of one negative result or even a few."

 

You're right about that. But the reality is, it can be tarnished, and as we already see there are posters who are now concerned that H&W is not infallible because of this.

 

Shadow, You have yet to comment on the B&As I posted of AMan.... Do you still think this patient is not where he should be at 6 months and that he has experienced ZERO growth?

 

Here they are again in case you missed them.... (BTW, it's okay to admit you're wrong, that's the "manly" thing to do, right?)

Edited May 18, 2011 by hairthere

[Shadow of the EMpire State]

"Now we're blaming the patient?"

 

No. Bonker's point is that this particular patient is in a clear state of panic and is overreacting prematurely to a result that is not final. That panic has been validated by posters like yourself who have no real-life experience with HT growth.

 

I thought you said that you were done posting in this thread.

 

You're right about that. But the reality is, it can be tarnished, and as we already see there are posters who are now concerned that H&W is not infallible because of this.

Well, they're clearly not infallable, so what harm is there in that conclusion? Who on this earth is infallible? The next one I see will be the first.

 

Shadow, You have yet to comment on the B&As I posted of AMan....

Because there's no sense in commenting on them. They do nothing to disturb my point: that most of the best results showed precocious growth at six months. Moreover, you merely posted pictures of various HTs at six months---pictures that are worthless without pictures of the final results. Besides, my conclusion is based on eight years of following hair transplants, not a smattering of cherry-picked photographs selected to suit my forensic purpose.

 

Do you still think this patient is not where he should be at 6 months and that he has experienced ZERO growth?

First of all, stop misquoting me. I never said that he experienced "ZERO" growth. I said that most "wow" results show more growth at six months and that this particular patient doesn't look good for six months.

 

Here they are again in case you missed them.... (BTW, it's okay to admit you're wrong, that's the "manly" thing to do, right?)

Just how many more posts are you going to make in a thread in which you previously declared you were done? And why do you have such an ad hominem hard on for me? Get a life. Edited May 18, 2011 by Shadow of the EMpire State

[Bill - Seemiller]

Shadow,

 

It's a well known fact that a hair transplant takes up to 12 months to mature. At 6 months, the vast majority of the hairs have begun to grow, quite possibly 80 to 90%. However, new transplanted hairs are fine and colorless at first and take several months to thicken, darken, grow and mature. Thus, on a typical patient, while most of the hairs have already started to grow, a large percentage of them are not yet visible to the naked eye (yet can often be felt) and do not aid the density that will be evident only after all hairs darken, thicken, grow and mature.

 

Thus, at 6 months, a typical patient only sees 50% to 60% of the actual final result that is evident after a year. Furthermore, studies have shown that hair counts are typically higher at 18 months than 12 months, although this new growth isn't typically significant enough to make much visual impact in the vast majority of patients.

 

In addition to the above, all patients grow at different rates. Some do experience more growth and maturity at 6 months than others. Ironically, it does appear that there are more "fast growers" than not, which unfortunately, leave patients like Aman prematurely nervous and disappointed.

 

Being an average grower / late bloomer doesn't mean the result will end in poor growth. However, cases of poor growth do sometimes look like late bloomers, creating the misconception that all late bloomers will result in bad results. But this is simply not the case.

 

Since none of us have a telescope that can look through time, at only 6 months, it's far better to encourage Aman to be patient, go the distance and see how his results turn out. There's also no scientific reason to assume he won't get optimal growth just because he's an average grower.

 

Aman,

 

We've been emailing back and forth for years and I I feel that I've gotten to know you quite well. I also know that you're an avid worrier. I know it's hard to be patient. While nobody can predict what your final result will look like, your progress indicates that your hair will continue to grow, thicken, darken and mature, making for a much better result than you see now. However, I encourage you to look back on all of your pictures immediately before your hair transplant to now. It does appear that you've had some significant growth and it should only continue to get better.

 

Try to hang in there and go the distance before evaluating the final result. In the event that your growth isn't optimal at 12 months, I trust that Hasson and Wong will do all they can to help you meet your needs. Do understand however, that while 6000 grafts is a lot, given the balding area of your scalp, you may still want more density even with optimal growth. Remember that I had 9600 grafts in a similar balding area to achieve the density I have, and even so, there are areas of my scalp that are still thin.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Shadow of the EMpire State]

Shadow,

 

 

It's a well known fact that a hair transplant takes up to 12 months to mature. At 6 months, the vast majority of the hairs have begun to grow, quite possibly 80 to 90%. However, new transplanted hairs are fine and colorless at first and take several months to thicken, darken, grow and mature. Thus, on a typical patient, while most of the hairs have already started to grow, a large percentage of them are not yet visible and do not aid the density that will be evident only after all hairs darken, thicken, grow and mature.

 

Hi, Bill.

 

I never argued that a hair transplant was fully grown at six months (nearly seven in this case, I understand). My points were two: that most of the best results showed stronger growth at six months; and that I didn't think this transplant looked good for the amount of time that had passed. That's all.

 

Seems to me to be a matter of opinion undeserving of some truly bizarre accusations, to wit, that I somehow "want" the transplant to fail (Lorenzo) or that I fancy myself "a tough guy." (hairthere)

Edited May 18, 2011 by Shadow of the EMpire State

[hairthere]

No hard-on, we're just debating...

 

If you believe your statement about the best results being impressive at six months back it up. All I did was a simple search and posted whatever came up first, no cherry picking. I posted some which can be construed as backing your point.

 

Telling me to" get a life" is a bit beneath you, don't you think?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Shadow, Hairthere, Lorenzo and all,

 

You know what they say about opinions right? Everyone's got one. :-)

 

There's nothing wrong with dissenting opinions. In fact, that's what makes this discussion forum alive and rich with information.

 

But let's keep the tone of our conversation respectful, free from insults and provide Aman with accurate information, support, and the encouragment he needs during this time.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Shadow of the EMpire State]

No hard-on, we're just debating...

 

If you believe your statement about the best results being impressive at six months back it up. All I did was a simple search and posted whatever came up first, no cherry picking. I posted some which can be construed as backing your point.

 

Telling me to" get a life" is a bit beneath you, don't you think?

 

I thought you were done. I'm not going to continue arguing in this thread.

[hairthere]

Bill, I believe all I did was try to provide accurate info for this patient and back it with proof. I never went out of my way to insult Shadow--that's not my style--at the same time I'm not going to allow someone to try and belittle me.

 

Take care

Edited May 18, 2011 by hairthere

[bonkerstonker]

Shadow i don't really understand you! You've been a member here since 2009 and probably been on other hair forums for even longer but all i see is you winding people up, why don't you have any information on your profile about your self or hair blogs or anything at all?

 

Just out of interest what is your story? Is it top secret? I can't help but think your probably some bloke with amazing thick hair that likes coming on here to argue with people.

[recedingboy]

As an objective observer, I completely agree with Shadow and disagree with bonkerstonker.

 

First of all, I do not think this thread is damaging to H&W. Quite the contrary, it shows the reality of the potentially slow growth process. Not everyone is going to experience knock your socks off improvement, and all the docs/doc representatives seem to show good or best case scenarios, I wish that was always the case for every patient, but clearly its not.

 

For someone like me considering a hairtransplant, I certainly appreciate Aman's posting because it give me even more information that I use to process on whether I want a HT or not. I think everyone knows that H&W is a highly reputable clinic (and as such I'm sure they would want to step up if Aman's final results are not satisfactory btw).

 

Second, I truly sympathize with Aman's mindset right now. A lot of posters say it is too early to judge, but no one knows for sure in these things. The bottom line is obviously this guy flew 10,000 miles, probably spent all his savings, etc. on this in the hope that it would change his life. He is perfectly entitled and should not be chided for stating that it did not meet his expectations. I think some moron even used "little girl" as an example. That should be edited immediately imho.

 

I would venture to say that hairloss has affected everyone on this forum psychologically. Why else would we go through bloody (no pun intended) surgery, put down 10-20k of our hard earned money, and take off 2+weeks of time off of work for this? Obviously the hairloss affects us to a MUCH greater degree than the guys who are truly confident and just go shave their head and call it a day. Quite frankly we are all (me included) being girlie in getting a hair transplant, it is vanity afterall, there is no real functional purpose of hair.

 

Aman, please keep us posted, and hang in there. The consensus seems to think that your growth will improve. Now that you have a hairline at least (even if it is thinner than you had hoped), would you want to cut your hair very short till there is JUST stubble? that might actually look better because it might give the appearance that you have a pretty much full head of hair but that you choose to shave/buzz it down to stubble for the look.

Edited May 22, 2011 by recedingboy
spelling mistake

[bonkerstonker]

He is perfectly entitled and should not be chided for stating that it did not meet his expectations.

 

100% True but a pointless statement at 6 months it's common sense at 12 months.

 

Quite frankly we are all (me included) being girlie in getting a hair transplant, it is vanity afterall, there is no real functional purpose of hair..

 

Getting a ht is not girlie incase you haven't noticed men have hair too. Girls cry about things and get upset prematurely. The comparison with this case is he's been told before by his dr the process will take 12 month and he's extremely upset at the half way mark and thinking it's a failure, that trait reminds me of a little girl fact. "Are we nearly there yet dad". lol

 

Now that you have a hairline at least (even if it is thinner than you had hoped), would you want to cut your hair very short till there is JUST stubble? that might actually look better because it might give the appearance that you have a pretty much full head of hair but that you choose to shave/buzz it down to stubble for the look.

 

Thanks for the quote above i've laughed for a good few minutes cheers pal lmao ha ha ha

[Deadhead1]

Hi Aminindia - I absoutely know what you are going through. Really I do. As a fellow Hasson patient I can tell you that I too had very little growth at six months. It was awful and all I could think about, especially when I saw other posts from guys that had substantial growth at the same time period and earlier. My results didn't even kick in until much later as I had almost nothing going on until almost a year. I experienced thickening in my second and third year which sounds bizzarre but it is true.

 

Attached is a photo from last weekend to show you how I look now compared to another photo from five years ago. My hair transplant is still all I think about - but with much happiness. Feel free to ping me if you want to talk or see more photos or speak to me.

 

Keep the faith. If you are like me, six months is way early!

[HARIRI]

I really dont wish that anyone will attack me back. But according to my guess, my personal opinion. Mega sessions are sometimes risky especially this one which is super mega session. I never heard of 6000 grafts in one session before. I think this operation wasnt done with deep thinking. Sometimes there arent enough blood to supply those grafts. I have seen 4000's and 5000's but 6000's thats a lot really.

 

I would never be crazy to do 6000 one shot and risk my donor in one pass. I would do 4000 then 2000 if anythig goes wrong. No if anything goes wrong with Aman, then he will not have any choice for another corrective surgery but FUE :-(...

 

However lets pray for the results to come out. Still cant judge really. Lets give it another 2 months. Fingers crossed.

 

DEADHEAD1. You look great. WOW. Nice work really. :-)

Edited May 23, 2011 by HARIRI

[Cant decide]

I agree that if 6000 are wasted here (I dont think they will be), that would eat up alot of donor of course. However, it does not mean FUT is out in the next round. I had 5000 in my first and with my laxity and donor, I have approx. 5000 left. I know this is better then average but this is just to point out that Aman may have more than 6000 total in his donor.

[Dutch]

6k has been done before. Many times. London Lad was one of Hasson's patients. 7781 grafts in one pass. That wasn't even the record! I understand he was an exception to the rule with his laxity, density & bank balance.

 

Aman will get a good result. He needs to be patient and chill. It'll come. He went to arguably the best.

[Anouar]

I'll play devils advocate and say maybe he won't. There was guy drew who had a total of 8000grafts with h&w and his results were subpar. Either way speculating on whether he will or wont before 12 months is pointless.

[Trichologist]

First of all, I do not think this thread is damaging to H&W. Quite the contrary, it shows the reality of the potentially slow growth process. Not everyone is going to experience knock your socks off improvement, and all the docs/doc representatives seem to show good or best case scenarios, I wish that was always the case for every patient, but clearly its not.

Exactly, I mean I think people these days expect instant results in everything, but hair regrowth is a natural process that takes a natural amount of time. How much time depends on the person and their unique situation. Hang in there and it will improve.

[Dutch]

I agree about Drew's case that it wasn't a success. But he was a Norwood 7 and his hair is thinner than Aman's. And dare I say Aman has more hair coming through now than Drew had after more than a year.

We're NOT "lying" to him. This is in most cases an honest forum but also a support community.

[HARIRI]

This thread is very popular, 94 comments wow. Better we leave Aman breathe a bit and see whats the outcome in Month 8 so then we start posting all over again. I honestly feel his worries and pain especially when it comes to money. Dollars comparing to Rupee and the long flying distance. I will really wish from God that the growth will accelerate soon. Our prayers with you buddy, try using concelaers to stop thinking about it. It will help psychologically. Thats what i did before.

[bonkerstonker]

Hariri you raise a good point about mega megasessions I'd love to find out the science on wether or not the blood supply would be tarnished.

 

I got a sneaky feeling aman has started to get a dramatic change due to the fact I could see good growth starting in his pictures and that's why we haven't seen him posting when he usually posts 5 times a day. I know I've given him a bit of hammer and tough love but i really hope this is the case and he is relaxed and happy now with his growth.

[Anouar]

On the contrary, I have read the scalp is very vascular and I wouldn't def not put any conceilers in my hair. I want to be sure I did everything to insure good growth. This is just amunition for guys to say "the possible reason for your sub par poor growth was using conceilers prematurely"

Edited May 24, 2011 by Anouar

[bonkerstonker]

on the contrary, I have read the scalp is very vascular and I wouldn't def not put any conceilers in my hair just to insure good growth. This is just amunition for guys to say "the possible reason for your sub par poor growth was using conceilers prematurely"

 

Yes im not sure i agree with that, conceilers surely can not cause growth problems but i have heard talk of that before.

Edited May 24, 2011 by bonkerstonker

[Anouar]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I heard Joetronic comment that dermatch caused some problem with post op growth but regardless why would take any chance. You spent quite a bit of money on this procedure so try to do everything possible to insure optimum growth

[Dutch]

That's right, these concealers may suffocate the follicles and not let them breath even if they're not on the skin & only just sit on the hair. Who wants to take the risk. Even though some people do tell you it's fine to use concealers after only a few weeks after an op.

 

On a different note & to go back to Aman's case, I honestly don't see that this subject is damaging to the doctor- it just highlights that you need to be patient, not everyone is the same & it'll come eventually.