6000 grafts by dr hasson.very sad :(

[bonkerstonker]

he knows he's had growth that's why he put wet pictures up and dry photos scruffed up to show it at it's worst. I think he's just upset about how slow it's growing compared to others if he's honest, I'm sure it is very frustrating but he will get through it like we all do. Aman I get the feeling you think you're hair is gonna be like it was when you were a kid but you have to be real it will make a massive difference coming from where u were but you did not have enough pre ht hair to get a wow result like some people do.

[TheEmperor]

amanindia,

 

I can empathize with your situation because I also was deemed a "slow grower" in my procedure with Dr. Wong.

 

The thing that you must realize about Hair Transplants, and this is not clear until you have had one yourself, is that the "illusion of density" only appears when the hair is grown long on top and layered upon itself.

 

At the six month mark, perhaps 80% of the follicles have sprouted, but the majority of them are very short. It usually takes until the 12 month mark for all of the hairs on top to sprout and grow to 3" in length.

 

Also, patients with fine hair require the hair to grow longer to obtain the same illusion of density. Thus patients with fine hair often appear to be "slow growers."

 

I am not saying that there is not a yield problem ( as there are not good close up pictures), but if you let the hair on top continue to grow in length over the next six months, you may begin to see what is referred to as the "illusion of density".

 

Unfortunately, this is a limitation of the procedure that is not accurately communicated.

[ukpaitent]

If the illusion of density is only created through growing your hair to have length does this mean that after if you chose to have a buzz cut does this mean that you HT would be see through??

[TheEmperor]

If the illusion of density is only created through growing your hair to have length does this mean that after if you chose to have a buzz cut does this mean that you HT would be see through??

 

Yes. Absolutely.

 

On a NW6 they are only planting at (like) 1/3rd original density, maybe a bit more in the hairline.

[bonkerstonker]

The illusion works with ht length because the hairs are strong and terminal so they stay thick when long thus covering more area with each strand. Length doesn't work well with diffuse normal thinning hair because the miniaturising hair strands are weak and brittle so won't grow out strong strands after the first cm if that.

[C]

My friend, 6 months is hardly even the starting point. That's just basic healing time, hardly enough for any ample amount of time to judge your results. I wouldn't even begin to worry until the 1 year mark and even then the hair will not be full matured. I think there are way too many variations of results that tend to make others expect too much too soon. Just give it time, relax, and make sure your staying healthy to help your healing progress come along.

[mars]

6-7months is not just the begining or starting point thats ridiculous its not half way either its probably closer to 2/3rd's of the way there,not trying to be pesimistic but its the truth,the side by side comparisons show some growth but not much in fairness to think 5000 grafts were planted thats fact,i do think things will get better for sure but your not going to get what you were hoping for aman imo but you will def improve..maybe prepare for the worst and everything after is a bonus.

 

I think at times its better to tell people the truth instead of sugar coating things,how many people can honestly say they would be happy at this stage?i know i wouldnt,just for the record this is not bashing h&w in any way,i think they are really great.

 

I wish you the best and i hope i am 100% wrong in what i said i really do.

[largechris]

I don't understand some of these 'definitive' posts saying that absolutely things should be happening and obvious at 6 months, this is 'normal' I.e. Good sample size etc.

 

If we stick a little more to our actual personal experiences - I wasn't expecting much until 8 months. And almost exactly on time, at 7.5 months was the first time I noticed any real growth. And that was the point (not 5, 6 or 7 months) when other people started noticing my ht as well.

 

And I feel that at 9 months it was looking good, a lot better at 12 months, and fully done around 18 months.

 

I see no evidence that I was a 'late bloomer' my results timescal seemed to be exactly average compared to all the research I did and what my Doctor told me beforehand.

[Shadow of the EMpire State]

6-7months is not just the begining or starting point thats ridiculous its not half way either its probably closer to 2/3rd's of the way there.

 

Absolutely correct. These posters are well-intentioned people who want to make Aman feel better. But well-intentioned or not, lies are lies. In fact, you see placative lies told on hair forums all the time; no one wants to face the truth. These guys know right well that this situation is not looking good, but they want to help Aman. Don't get me wrong: there's a lot of humanity in empathizing or sympathizing with Aman, but the truth is the truth. I wonder what they'll have to say if Aman is saying the same thing in six months.

 

Wishing Aman the best,

 

Shadow

Edited May 14, 2011 by Shadow of the EMpire State

[lorenzo]

Dr. Shadow thank you for your opinion. Having said that ever patients is different some patients at 6 months are 80% while other are even at 20%. Every patient is different when it comes to growth. If you read the forums from day one you will see that people results all vary when it comes to growth. Why not wait for 6 months and see how the results are? Adding this to a patient that is always panicing adds very little to this discussion. In other words you are calling all positive posts on this thread lier and what you are saying is correct? I hope you chose Dr. Rahal to have your surgery get an amazing results and then you can stop being so bitter.

[mars]

Lorenzo in your opinion do these patients that have 20% growth at 6 months do they end up with a similiar result to those with 80% growth at 6 months when they reach the 1 year mark or even 1.5 years post op?

 

In my opinion...no way!!

[Shadow of the EMpire State]

Dr. Shadow thank you for your opinion.

 

The idea that you need to be a doctor to acknowledge the nose on your face is absurd. Besides, from what I understand, you're not a doctor either, so your argument fails by your own criterion.

 

Having said that ever patients is different some patients at 6 months are 80% while other are even at 20%. Every patient is different when it comes to growth.

I've been on these forums for almost eight years. There are always some deviations from the norm, of course, but what I've found over that time is that the good transplants tend to proceed along roughly similar timetables. Nearly all the best results were precocious and showed strong growth by six months. That's not to say that growth was finished, only that it was strong enough to generate a "wow" reaction on the forums. Were there exceptions? A few but only that--a few.

 

If you read the forums from day one you will see that people results all vary when it comes to growth.

Yes, there is "some" variance but not nearly as much as you seem to imply. In my time on the forums, nearly all the best results showed extensive growth at six months. So-called "slow growth" has historically been a harbinger of less-than-optimal results. The winners tend to grow fast. And it has nothing to do with H&W. They're a top firm with top doctors. If they did FUE, I'd consider them. BUT every clinic has a bust now and then. There is no clinic out there that doesn't have examples of poor growth. Will this be a bust? No one knows with certainty, but it's not looking great, and I owe it to Aman to say so.

 

Why not wait for 6 months and see how the results are?

This is six months! He had the procedure in early November.

 

Adding this to a patient that is always panicing adds very little to this discussion.

That's the real problem, isn't it? No honesty allowed? Only platitudes? I'm sorry, but THAT adds nothing to the discussion. In fact, that's pecisely what hair forums must try to avoid because once that happens, truth goes out the window.

 

In other words you are calling all positive posts on this thread lier and what you are saying is correct?

I'm saying many posters are being less than honest in an effort to be kind. I think that's noble, but in the end, I think the forums benefit most from honest assessments, not pats on the back. Edited May 14, 2011 by Shadow of the EMpire State

[mahhong]

The idea that you need to be a doctor to acknowledge the nose on your face is absurd. Besides, from what I understand, you're not a doctor either, so your argument fails by your own criterion.

 

I've been on these forums for almost eight years. There are always some deviations from the norm, of course, but what I've found over that time is that the good transplants tend to proceed along roughly similar timetables. Nearly all the best results were precocious and showed strong growth by six months. That's not to say that growth was finished, only that it was strong enough to generate a "wow" reaction on the forums. Were there exceptions? A few but only that--a few.

 

Yes, there is "some" variance but not nearly as much as you seem to imply. In my time on the forums, nearly all the best results showed extensive growth at six months. So-called "slow growth" has historically been a harbinger of less-than-optimal results. The winners tend to grow fast. And it has nothing to do with H&W. They're a top firm with top doctors. If they did FUE, I'd consider them. BUT every clinic has a bust now and then. There is no clinic out there that doesn't have examples of poor growth. Will this be a bust? No one knows with certainty, but it's not looking great, and I owe it to Aman to say so.

 

This is six months! He had the procedure in early November.

 

That's the real problem, isn't it? No honesty allowed? Only platitudes? I'm sorry, but THAT adds nothing to the discussion. In fact, that's pecisely what hair forums must try to avoid because once that happens, truth goes out the window.

 

I'm saying many posters are being less than honest in an effort to be kind. I think that's noble, but in the end, I think the forums benefit most from honest assessments, not pats on the back.

 

Whilst I certainly agree with you that honesty, openness and the freedom to state opinions is important and necessary on this site, I think the point Lorenzo is making is fair. Aman is clearly very worried about his HT and has been since long before the optimal growth. There are such a thing as slow growers that do get good results and even though that may not be the norm it's perfectly possible Aman will get a good result. Furthermore, a HT is really a work in progress until around the 12 month mark and in many ways opinions and conclusions up until that point are somewhat moot. If Aman's results are not up to scratch then his next step is to discuss that with his doctor - a process none of us are involved in.

 

I don't think anybody here on these boards would be condescending enough to tell Aman things are great when they're not, but similarly the flurry of "not good enough" opinions cannot be relevant for at least another 2-3 months. Only time is going to reveal the success of the procedure and there's quite simply nothing that can be done until Aman is a couple more months down the line.

 

I only say this because it's clear Aman is worried and whilst I know honesty is important on these boards, the only honesty any of us can really give is that there are at least a couple more months to go before any real suggestions on a way forward can be usable. Up until that point I think it's more important Aman is encouraged and reminded that his transplant is a work in progress and that we as a community try to relax him and make him feel positive about what could still turn out to be a good procedure.

 

I'm totally with you that it shouldn't be only platitudes or praise on this board, but there is an important caveat here. If someone has precocious and impressive growth at only a few months and you tell them so, that's a mentally positive and stimulating comment on a procedure that is already demonstrably successful. At 6 months in, telling people their growth is sub-par or not good enough or that they should be worried is really undermining their confidence at a time they should be relaxed and feeling well, and long before the procedure can be deemed even remotely finished. In other words, within the first 6-8 months, only unusually good results are proof of any sort of result - sub-par results are not proof of a bad result, only sub-par growth at that stage.

 

That's why I think you find more platitudes than criticism on pre-12 month progress threads. It's not about only giving out praise, but it's the fact that "wow" procedures already demonstrate huge progress, where as procedures that seem disappointing at 6 months could still turn out to surprise.

 

Aman - I think the truth is our opinions are just speculation until the 12 month mark and when the doctor comments on your results then. You should concentrate on staying positive, staying healthy and feeling well - attributes that can only help your HT. Stressing, whilst understandable, is not helpful and also not necessary just yet - the next 6 months could be huge for you, so stay positive and we'lll all be in a position to give usable, constructive advice at that point, and not before.

[Shadow of the EMpire State]

I'm totally with you that it shouldn't be only platitudes or praise on this board, but there is an important caveat here. If someone has precocious and impressive growth at only a few months and you tell them so, that's a mentally positive and stimulating comment on a procedure that is already demonstrably successful. At 6 months in, telling people their growth is sub-par or not good enough or that they should be worried is really undermining their confidence at a time they should be relaxed and feeling well . . . . .

 

What I gather from this is, "If the results look good at six months, you can tell the truth. But if not, lie."

 

I just can't buy into that. People come here for honest opinions---the straight dope, as it were. I hope it works out for Aman. I've told him as much. I've also told him I'm optimistic that he'll eventually find a solution to his hair loss. Goodness knows, I'd give all of us our hair back if I could. But I respect Aman enough to call it as I see it. It's not a bust yet, but it's not looking good.

 

I guess a part of this goes to much deeper questions like, "What's the purpose of the forum?" Is it an emotional-support group, or is it a place to learn and exchange information? Me, I think it's a place to learn and exchange information. I would never go out of my way to be nasty to someone, but I won't avoid giving an honest opinion either.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Shadow of the EMpire State

[hairthere]

shadow, What reason would I have for blowing smoke up this guy's ass? I don't know him. I don't work for his doctor. I have ZERO vested interest in his actual case. I could just as easily as you say, "Hey buddy, your HT was a failure...too bad." I am looking at his hairline, which now has a shape and greater density. I am looking at the areas where there was no hair in the vertex and crown and seeing hair where there was none. I am looking at his scalp and in the before picture you can clearly see scalp, whereas in the afters it appears darker. All of these factors indicate growth. Would this be acceptable as a final result? Of course not! But it is not a final result, is it? So why should he be so depressed right now and accept this HT as a failure?

 

I have had three HTs. Not once at the six month mark did I look in the mirror and feel good about my results. But guess what? 12 months showed a very different picture, and 18 months was even better. How did you feel about your Ht at 6 months Shadow? Were you thrilled with the results? Oh wait, you have no real experience with HTs. You have been basing all your expertise on spending eight years on the forum, which is just a sampling of all the HT results there are in the world...

[Cant decide]

I have to agree with Hairthere. I see no purpose in killing the guys hopes before the 12 month mark. If he asks dr. Hasson, he would say wait 12 months and then judge so why would the same opinion from us be wrong unless anyone here thinks they know more than Dr. Hasson. Bottom line, Aman could easlity see a great result as he has time left or it could be a less than otimal result but this is true at the T0 point also. I dont see the value of getting him worked up until the 12 month mark since the entire HT industry agrees is when you should judge the final result. Think of it this way; if we tell him he should be worried now because his growth is not what it should be and then what? So what is he supposed to do with that advice for the next 6 months aside from making his life very stressful. I think he will end up with a very good result but that is just my gut feeling.

[Levrais]

It actually looks like he has new growth. Also the hair looks sort of wet or matted down in the pics. If I took pics with my hair like that I would look completely bald. Perhaps he could clarify the condition of his hair in the pics and perhaps take some with hair dry we could better assist

[Atomic]

 

Why even argue about this @ 6months? We all know that this is not final results right?

Personally I think Amnn will end up being happy in the end. The work looks amazing, he has good charectersitics & a top surgeon in the industry= Success!

 

Seriously Aman, wait it out instead of being very sad. You have a lot to look foward to!

 

 

 

 

 

[Shadow of the EMpire State]

So why should he be so depressed right now and accept this HT as a failure?

 

Let's not misquote me. I didn't say that it's a failure. I said that it's not looking good for six months. If you want to argue that the transplant can't be definitively declared a failure at six months, I'll certainly agree. But don't come in and say that things look "good" or "right on schedule" for six months, because they don't.

 

I have had three HTs. Not once at the six month mark did I look in the mirror and feel good about my results. But guess what? 12 months showed a very different picture, and 18 months was even better. How did you feel about your Ht at 6 months Shadow? Were you thrilled with the results? Oh wait, you have no real experience with HTs.

I think this kind of facile argument is really beneath you. One doesn't need to have played major league baseball to know that a .220 average stinks.

 

You have been basing all your expertise on spending eight years on the forum, which is just a sampling of all the HT results there are in the world...

I think it's obvious that my "sample" of thousands of hair-transplant results likely tells me more about what a good hair transplant should look like at six months than having a single hair transplant myself. Edited May 15, 2011 by Shadow of the EMpire State

[mars]

Hairthere you are correct in saying you werent happy at 6 months only a small percentage are so thats ok but aman has had 6000 thousand grafts not 1500 or 2000 a whopping 6000 now surely more growth should be evident considering he is one week off 7 months post op,seriously guys a bit of realism wouldnt go a stray,no one wants to be an asshole to aman but is it really in his best interests for everyone being overly optimistic its obvious things are looking bad,as far as im aware nearly all grafts should have broken through the skin by the 10th month mark and its thickening and maturing their after...i dont see 5000 grafts breaking through in the next 3 months for aman its unheard of after 7 months of poor growth

[mahhong]

What I gather from this is, "If the results look good at six months, you can tell the truth. But if not, lie."

 

I just can't buy into that. People come here for honest opinions---the straight dope, as it were. I hope it works out for Aman. I've told him as much. I've also told him I'm optimistic that he'll eventually find a solution to his hair loss. Goodness knows, I'd give all of us our hair back if I could. But I respect Aman enough to call it as I see it. It's not a bust yet, but it's not looking good.

 

I guess a part of this goes to much deeper questions like, "What's the purpose of the forum?" Is it an emotional-support group, or is it a place to learn and exchange information? Me, I think it's a place to learn and exchange information. I would never go out of my way to be nasty to someone, but I won't avoid giving an honest opinion either.

 

I see what you mean and guess it's down to difference of how to view the forums.

 

As I say, I have no problem with honesty and if people want to say the work doesn't look up to scratch that's their right. I just feel Aman is clearly very concerned about his HT and has been long before he could have even expected good growth. I know he's come on here looking for honest and perhaps even brutally frank opinions, but I don't really see what good they are. Essentially it's all just mildly informed speculation from layman (myself included in that category). As I say; great results we can all spot, but results still deep in transition are harder to make an informed opinion on. My suspicion is if Aman hears too many negative opinions from people on here it could be damaging to him emotionally and have an overall negative impact on his growth, which is still not yet determined.

 

I know what you mean about the deeper meaning of these forums and do share your belief it should be about information as much as support and optimism, but I think everybody should be viewed differently. I think Aman's need for support is far greater than his need for people's opinions at the moment. What good are the opinions, essentially? Yes, people have a right and perhaps even an obligation to say what they see with regards to photos and cases, but people's opinions cannot help Aman at all at the moment. None of us know the case history, have seen the hair in person, or understand the details of the patient and his procedure. If, at 12 months, the results are sub par, negative opinions can then be turned into positive action. Until that point they're just millstones around the neck of a man who is already having a hard time seeing much light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I don't think saying to Aman "wait it out" constitutes any sort of condescending or disrespectful mollycoddling. Anybody can see the procedure is not where Aman would like it to be and I don't think those trying to be positive are lying to Aman. The truth is none of us know and none of our uninformed projections about what might happen are of much use. It's still the waiting game; if the results look great already, then you know the results will be as good. But if the results don't look great, you still don't know anything. In the meantime, I don't think Aman needs any extra pressure and as a community I would still hold the job is to be supportive until such time Aman can make a proactive decision to go forward. That time isn't at 7 months.

[lorenzo]

I my views both Mars and Empire would like nothing more than this case to be unsuccessful. Mars welcome to the forum with all the great pictures doctors and patients are showing you have not said NOTHING positive towards any of them. Although everyone is welcome to their opinion I feel that maybe you need to share your story in order for us to understand your negativity. At least Empire once in a while pops a compliment Looking at the pictures I do FEEL there is growth as well as area that look darker. Just incase this was overlooked hair comes in very fine even to the point that many people dont even realize the transplant is growing. I had a Italian patient emailed me like crazy after 6 months saying his hair transplant was not growing. At one year point he was very happy and his cousin came to have his hair transplant. I am not saying this is the case on this but many aspects of the pictures state that this will turn out postive.

There have been many good and bad points made during this thread. I will say that once he posted his pictures without being wet there is definately good growth there. Slower than average yes but that doesnt mean this will turn out bad. Stop trying to tell us that we are lying when we have state our opinion. Shadow I maybe confused you but what I was saying was that lets wait another 6 months. I bet you if this turns out successful we will not be hearing nothing from both Mars and Shadow. Anyways my opinion. Let wait and be patient the only person that is a doctor here is Dr. Hasson and he stated please wait and be patient.. All the rest is just opinion.

[Shadow of the EMpire State]

I my views both Mars and Empire would like nothing more than this case to be unsuccessful.

 

You're a very disturbed man. It seems to me that your greatest problem is not what's on top of your head but rather what's inside it, which, with each post you make, appears to be less and less.

 

Mars welcome to the forum with all the great pictures doctors and patients are showing you have not said NOTHING positive towards any of them. Although everyone is welcome to their opinion I feel that maybe you need to share your story in order for us to understand your negativity.

 

You claim that everyone is welcome to give his opinion but then excoriate anyone who dares to do so.

[hairlosscursed]

You're a very disturbed man. It seems to me that your greatest problem is not what's on top of your head but rather what's inside it, which, with each post you make, appears to be less and less.

 

 

 

You claim that everyone is welcome to give his opinion but then excoriate anyone who dares to do so.

 

And who told you it s a free country???

[lorenzo]

Empire thanks for showing your true colors. I dont need to lower myself to insults Ill take your poison as long as you feel better.

Edited May 15, 2011 by lorenzo
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