Laser Comb/Herbal DHT Blocker/Rogaine 5 months now

[thanatopsis_awry]

Hey, if we replaced Snake Oil -- literally -- for ever time LLLC is mentioned, would *anything* change in our reactions and responses? The people advocating it? The people objecting to it? Is it the fact that "lasers" and "lights" and "therapy" have been verbally conjoined together that we allow ourselves to emotionally gravitate towards trusting this "scientific", "cool", "refined"......"treatment"?

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Dewayne,

As "exciting" as this may all seem, I've already won the debate because none of these doctors has posted any results on this site to date. Even more damning is the fact that none of their patients have either.

 

Furthermore, LLLT CAN'T work. Anybody who remembers their first year physics lectures in college MUST agree LLLT can't work as advertised.

 

It's as if many hair doctors got caught up in LLLT mania and discarded their common sense. Some did it naively, others did it willingly for profit and/or marketing purposes.

I've learned the pervailing philosophy among physicians is "hey, if he's making money with it in his office, so can I". This way of thinking is fine, but only if the procedure actually works. LLLT offers absolutely no cosmetically signficant change as evidenced by the vaccuum of reported results. Pseudo-scientific papers abound to be sure. This is the justification many doctors and manufactures use, but no actual real world proof has been forthcoming.

 

LLLT isn't the only quack remidy being sold to the public that has both junk-science support and physician support. Magnet therapy and chelation are other such quack treatments.

 

Innocent people are being bilked out of thousands of dollars. They are being sold false hope that can only result in their expectations being crushed when, even after months of religious use, there is no demonstrable result.

 

I await the input of LLLT supporting physicans on this thread.

[Rick055]

Dr. Feller-

 

While I am also of the opinion that LLLT holds no merit, you state that "Bill, they can't even offer a clinical mechanism of action as to how such "treatment" could work."

 

Can't the same be said about minoxidil?

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Just curious Dr Feller but do those beams do anything to the scalp like increase bloodflow or maybe calm a irritated scalp

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Not sure but there are hundreds of photos proving minox works.

The proof is in the pudding

[Ringo]

Gents,

 

I recently had a meeting with a surgeon from this coalition for a second procedure, with whose work I am impressed. After the evaluation of my condition, he sort of casually asked whether I had thought about laser therapy when I mentioned my adverse reaction to finasteride. I said no, and that I was not interested because I had never seen any proof that it did anything but grow wings on your money... He dropped the subject, but I was sort of surprised he mentioned it.

 

Ringo

[Bp1]

WOW loving Dr. Feller's statement on man-made global warming. After researching it, I completely agree that it is completely bogus.

[thanatopsis_awry]

eeezzzzzzz, let's not rock the boat too much; if I want to believe we evolved from chimps and are now causing apocolyptic "global-warming" let's work through my issues in a different ring. That said, I would pay big to get running commentary of Dr. Feller during an episode of Hannity&Colmes....

[Dr. Alan Feller]

PGP,

First, lack of bloodflow nor irritation of the scalp is the main cause of male pattern hairloss.

 

Second, laser pointers striking the skin for a few moments during "laser" treatments will not impart a signficant amount of energy to do anything, much less affect blood flow.

 

A bald man walking on the beach will be exposed to much more radiation than quack laser devices.

Remember, LLLT stands for LOW laser light therapy.

 

As for Rogaine, PGP is right. Efficacy is demonstrable and repeatable. In fact, evidence of its efficacy surfaced BEFORE anyone was ever looking for it. Minioxidil was origionally an anti-hypertensive medication in whom patients COMPLAINED of exceess hairgrowth on the scalp and body. It was only after this observation that intelligent people at the company began to sell it has a hairloss loss remedy.

 

LLLT does not have such a track record.

 

There are many drugs whose mechanisms of action are not completely understood. But LLLT stands alone in that it's proponents have NO idea how

it could work. Because it doesn't.

 

The few junk science "studies" thrown out for public consumption have absolutely NO connection to clinical application and reality.

[Rick055]

As for Rogaine, PGP is right. Efficacy is demonstrable and repeatable. In fact, evidence of its efficacy surfaced BEFORE anyone was ever looking for it. Minioxidil was origionally an anti-hypertensive medication in whom patients COMPLAINED of exceess hairgrowth on the scalp and body. It was only after this observation that intelligent people at the company began to sell it has a hairloss loss remedy.

 

LLLT does not have such a track record.

 

 

 

Yep, I get this part and again, I am not a believer in LLLT.

 

I more wanted to make sure my understanding of minoxidil was correct (i.e. I thought your comment might have implied we now did know how minoxidil worked).

[Dr. Alan Feller]

I know where you're coming from Rick and I appreciate you jumping in.

 

I believe most participants on this thread don't believe in LLLT and are just trying to play a bit of the devil's advocate as Bill is doing.

 

But that's all for the good because it will compel those doctors and other professionals who do support LLLT to come out of the woodwork and defend their position coherently and articulately.

 

To date, LLLT proponents have not really been challenged. But there are enough dissatisfied LLLT patients online now to force a dialog. Please stay on this thread and watch for the input of the LLLT supporting doctors.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

First, lack of bloodflow nor irritation of the scalp is the main cause of male pattern hairloss.

 

I understand that Dr BUT there has had to of been a couple of patients whom somehow grew SOME

hair during the laser treatment for SOME reason.

It seems like the few pics and testimonials we hear are from woman.

They also say they benefit from it more then men.

Dont get me wrong I know its a huge scam and those doctors offering are bogus as hell but there are some things that affect people differently in 1-5% of people for whatever reason.

Even if it helps that small % of women the results are so minimal its ridiculous.

I know this is htn not hlh but I believe the docs that offer this need to come aboard and explain why they are STILL offering this. I know they wont and thats a HUGE disappointment

If you scam people one way whats going to stop you from doing it any other way.

[Al - Moderator]

I tried to stay away from this argument for a while because too many people are against me and some of them are very vocal. I've been using a laser comb for over a year and I'm still using it. If I didn't think it worked I would have stopped using it long ago.

 

As for the cost, I don't understand why people are saying it's so expensive. I spent about $120 total and I've been using it almost 14 months. That's less than $9 per month. What treatments are you using that cost less than that? And unless my laser comb stops working tomorrow, the average monthly cost will keep decreasing. There's no further costs involved unless you count the few pennies spent on the electricity used.

 

I can say it absolutely, positively, no doubt about it, works for growing hair in areas of "permanent" shock loss. I had about a 1 inch square section on my lower left donor area that had almost no hair growing at all for the past maybe 15 years around a donor scar and another area in my crown that was bare from shock loss after removing previously transplanted hair to redistribute it. After a few months of using the laser comb on both areas, new hair started to grow. It's still improving and the areaa are both almost completely filled. Both spots were empty of hair for nearly 15 years, so there's no way anyone can ever tell me it's not because of the laser comb.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Be happy First of all glad things turned around for you.

The price the doctors charge for one session would net you 5 or your brushes.

I think you were the one person who posted their pics of this amazing transformation on another site .

Your one of the very few lucky ones .

Is there anyway you could show me the thread where you posted these pics. I forgot.

Thanks bud

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Im sorry Behappy I dont want to mislead people

I was reminded that it wasnt your pic it was a pic Dr Feller posted from hairmax site.

I think back early in the year when you were telling us you had good results you were gonna post.

Did you ever? I cant seem to find them Im curious to see your results.

Hey any results is worth a $100 brush.

Oh yeah ,theres no one against you at all . We patients really want the laser to help .

The problem is without proof from at least 5 people out of the thousands who have tried it ,its hard to be on anyones side .

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Be Happy,

I appreicate the input, but please keep the thread open for LLLT doctors to respond as they have been asked to by Bill.

 

PGP,

To clarify, I posted a before/after picture from the Hairmax site and pointed out their obvious use of deceptive practices.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I appreicate the input, but please keep the thread open for LLLT doctors to respond as they have been asked to by Bill.

 

Dr. Feller,

 

Patients and physician members of this community are welcome to offer their input whether "anti" or "pro" laser. Therefore, BeHappy's experience and comments are just as welcome as the other patient members who've contributed.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Bill,

 

I believe it was you in your last post that narrowed the focus of this thread to a virtual boxing match between DOCTORS.

 

As such, input from patients regarding their own experiences with LLLT represent an inappropriate tangent. This goes double for BeHappy who has been claiming miraculous results with his laser comb for over a year but to date has refused to post a single photo of proof. By failing to support his claims his credibility is as suspect as that of my LLLT opponents, and any statements written by him in support of my opponents or LLLT is not to be believed. He made his bed, he now must lay in it.

 

If BeHappy absolutely must continue to make unsupported claims about his laser comb, he can make his own thread.

[FenderPlayer]

I have a question for any doctor that advocates LLLT. If lasers grow/thicken hair, why don't all people working at supermarkets and the like have ridiculously hairy hands? Just a thought...

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Feller,

 

I agree that shared experiences without photo evidence holds virtually no credibility.

 

But I never said that I was excluding patients from offering their input and experiences from this thread while doctors duke it out in a virtual boxing match.

 

In the end, discussion forum members and guests can draw their own conclusions based on the what was discussed.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Fenderplayer,

 

Any hair regrowth agent, even finasteride and Rogaine will only grow hair in areas capable of growing hair - in other words, a hair follicle has to be present. No hair treatment has the capability to create a follicle.

 

That's why Propecia and Rogaine users also don't grow hair on the palms of their hands

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I just think doctor Feller is so passionate about hairloss and bogus treatments that hes on edge with anyone who claims success to something that he feels cant work in the first place.

I do think those doctor should have to someway somehow answer these claims .

If they dont email you back or use the "I dont want to argue" excuse Bill I would take it as

they already know they are preying on the desperation of hairloss sufferers.

They dont have to argue they can send you some proof and you can post it.

Or make a new thread for this issue to where only the doctors can speak.

This site always uses the word respected doctor.

I could never respect a scam artist

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Bill I believe Fender was implying the back of the hands .

[Bill - Seemiller]

PGP,

 

I respect Dr. Feller's passion and have no problem with any of the claims he's making with the exception of his attempts to moderate the discussion by asking the only member to disagree with his position not to post.

 

If BeHappy's input isn't welcome here, then neither should yours, or any other patient member's. But since this is an open community and we value both patient and doctor input, anyone is allowed to contribute to this thread (with the exception of spammers or anyone who breaches our terms of service).

 

Regarding hair growth on the back of the hands...

 

Hair follicles are already present on the back of the hands. Therefore, hair shaft thickening may be possible if Rogaine was applied. This is why some women experience hair growth in unwanted areas when using the stronger 5% version of minoxidil. It's not that hair wasn't there in the first place - it's just that the hair is thickening and darkening.

 

Whether or not this is the same for laser therapy - who knows

 

Bill

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Bill,

I think I was very clear in my last post why BeHappy should not post on this thread.

He has already made grand claims supporting LLLT that he has REFUSED to back up for the past year. Would any rational person trust anything more this man had to say or write about the subject of LLLT? What other conclusion can you draw from his past behavior other than that he is a fake?

 

I would think you as a moderator would have jumped in yourself to censure his input so this thread didn't go off course like it is now. You took the bait from this guy and now we are discussing him instead of the doctors you emailed 24 hours ago.

 

Bill, you don't have to worry about me thinking I'm "the moderator", I'm not interested in the job. I am interested in reading what the doctors YOU cited in your own article have to say as to how they justify the use of LLLT in their practices when they have admitted themselves that the results are not demonstrable.

 

It has now been 24 hours since you emailed these doctors and still there is no response. I think that is the most important point made on this thread today.