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Nine Month Report


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  • Senior Member

I know I still have some growth coming but right now at nine months I'm basically still bald in the front and would not take off my hairpiece. If I had to judge the procedure on the results I see today I would say it was a failure. However, I'm staying positive because I know Dr. Epstein will help me if it comes to that.

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Senior Member

Kevkristy-You bring up excellent points. I did discuss my goals in detail with Dr. Epstein and he decided which route we were going to take. He did tell me on the second procedure I could decide if I wanted the next grafts to go in the front, on the crown or a combination of both. Never was it mentioned that 2500 grafts in the front third would leave me still looking bald. Dr. Epstein told me I had enough grafts for a third procedure if I wanted one. I am really feeling discourage after waiting this long and seeing basically nothing. I have been very careful not to come on the forum bitching and complaining about my lack of growth because I wanted to give it time. From every post I've read on here in the past year almost everyone says by this point in time I should be working with new hairstyles. Well, that ain't happenin here!

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Regular Member

TTDS

I agree. The bottomline is you went in for cosmetic surgery. By definition it is supposed to improve your appearance.

 

Would you (or anyone else) have gone through with the procedure if you were told pre surgery that this was the end result?

 

I know I would not have -- not for 10 grand and 9 months of down time.

 

Again, I'm in the same boat, and I'm getting fed up with the goal post changers. 6 months with no growth (for me) and 9 months with little cosmetic change (for you) is way out of the norm.

 

-KK

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For all of those toying with this notion, let me say that 2500 grafts packed into the frontal third of a scalp (like in TTDS' case) should make a huge difference. If it was spread out all over the scalp on a completely bald area, I would argue otherwise.

 

I too would be very concerned if at 9 months I had very little hair growth in the area.

 

I know we are all trying to help make TTDS feel better, but let's be honest, wouldn't you all be concerned if you were in his shoes?

 

Now it IS possible that he is an extremely early grower and a lot still COULD happen. I'm not going to negate this, but the call to be concerned certainly is valid in my opinion.

 

TTDS may have to visit with Dr. Epstein (if possible) so he can evaluate his scalp to see what may or may not be going on.

 

A "failed hair transplant" procedure can occur for a number of reasons including the improper handling and care of the grafts, but also physiological reasons.

 

Before making a judgement however, I recommend that we hold off until we hear from Dr. Epstein.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

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  • Senior Member

"Bill states that the average at 9 months 90% growth."

 

kev,

that is an average. it does not mean everyone will experience 90% growth. also, just because all of his hair may have grown does not mean it's fully thickened and matured.

 

i am speaking from experience here, whereas you are speaking from 6 months growth of your first ht. plus, you are already a bit panicked yourself. my point is, should he be concerned--of course! it's only natural to feel that way. hell, i'm concerned and i'm only at 4 months. but the reality is that you cannot come to a full conclusion until 12 months time. every single ht doc will tell you that as will many experienced posters here.

 

p.s. spex has posted a few times an example of a patient and his thickening between 8-9-12-18 months. the difference is dramatic.

I am the owner/operator of AHEAD INK a Scalp Micropigmentation Company in Fort Lee, New Jersey. www.aheadink.com

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  • Regular Member

Hairthere

I think I included the word "average" in Bill's quote. And I do understand that average does not include all.

 

However, 9 months is 9 months. No matter which way you slice it.

 

Additionally, I think my "experience" counts as much as yours, if not more. I'm the one going through the so-called "panic." So I can relate with TTDS.

 

It's a real sickening feeling.

 

I know by now, six full months post surgery, I thought for sure I'd be well on my way, enjoying spring (sans hat), excited about growth and looking forward to what's coming. And I'm sure TTDS feels similarly, possibly worse.

 

Hang in there TTDS. Let us know what you hear back from the doctor.

-KK

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Kev,

 

I encourage you to hang in there and try to separate your experience from TTDS. We don't have all the details on his case yet, and your case is way too early to evaluate. I do however, understand that you are concerned, but try not to panic. All you can do at this point is take a deep breath and relax.

 

Hairthere is trying to be helpful by giving you some comfort showing you that it is possible to be a late bloomer. It's not too terribly uncommon, but nobody likes to be in that position.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

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  • Senior Member

okay kev, so at 6 months time you are panicked and think your ht might be a failure. and so is ttds'. there's absolutely NOTHING you can do about it right now. so stressing yourself and this other poster will get you nowhere. call your doc and he will tell you the same thing: you must wait at least 12 months for the final result to make a judgment call. the reason i am telling you my experience is that while i had growth at 9 months, it was still thin. then the grafts thickened up and looked like the rest of my strong native and donor hairs.

I am the owner/operator of AHEAD INK a Scalp Micropigmentation Company in Fort Lee, New Jersey. www.aheadink.com

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  • Regular Member

Bill

I understand. But it's really annoying to see the selective outrage around here.

 

It can be guaranteed that if this were a Bosley job, the regulars in this community would be ripping and roaring.

 

I mean, here is FAQ copy straight from Epstein's website:

"...The transplanted hairs then usually fall out two weeks later, only to regrow in two to three months."

 

What are us so-called inexperienced patients supposed to think after reading this FAQ?

 

Yet we're ridiculed as "panicky" because at 6 and 9 months, respectively, we're concerned?

 

I'll keep quiet going forward.

-KK

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  • Senior Member

I really appreciate everyone's comments, I don't feel so alone. I'll post what Dr. Epstein says once I hear from him. I hope he isn't going to ask me to come to Miami to look at it before my appointment. It is only about a 3 hour drive from Orlando but a hassle and I'll need to take time off work.

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Senior Member

Kevkristy-You are right Dr. Epstein's paperwork said I'd see new hair coming in within two to three months. Well you can imagine how I feel at month nine with just a sparse covering. I saw nothing in months two and three. Maybe I'm officially a slow grower but my native hair grows incredibly fast I have to go get it thinned out every three weeks.

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Senior Member

kev,

people would question this if it were a bosley result based on bosley's piss-poor track record. nobody on here is showing favoritism. i have seen people show off their bad results from top and coalition docs. the difference is that it's usually after 12 months time.

 

and epstein says on his web site growth STARTS at 3 months. why are you insisting that you should see close to the final cosmetic results at 6-9 months time? some people might have close to it, others won't. again i urge you to find spex' post--it may help assuage your fears. and again, i'm not trying to attack you at all, just giving you some hope!

I am the owner/operator of AHEAD INK a Scalp Micropigmentation Company in Fort Lee, New Jersey. www.aheadink.com

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  • Regular Member

herethere

 

Here's the FAQ I was referring to. Where does it say "START".

 

PS - I don't appreciate your attacks on my credibility.

 

After the procedure can I resume my normal activities?

 

Most people are able to return to work and most social activities in one to three days. In four to six days all activities, including most exercise and regular hair care, can be resumed.

 

Tiny crusts will develop around each graft, falling out after one week. During this first week a powder, Toppik, provided by the office can be applied to the scalp to conceal the crusts. The transplanted hairs then usually fall out two weeks later, only to regrow in two to three months.

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  • Regular Member

...And furthermore... I am in no way "insisting" on final cosmetic results at 6-9 months.

 

Nice try with the spin.

 

But I am insisting on SOME results, SOME hope at 6-9 months. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Or maybe I'm just inexperienced and panicky.

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  • Senior Member

Kevkristy-I don't think you are being unreasonable, especially if you are at the six month mark with no hair growth. Have you posted a photo? Who was your doctor?

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Administrators

Timetodosomething,

 

Sorry that I'm late to joining this discussion. As a former hair system wearer and class 5 I can really relate to your dilema.

 

Over ten years ago when I did my first session with Dr. Ron Shapiro the 1,450 grafts I got in my front third was considered a mega session.

 

It did grow in pretty well but thin between 6 to 9 months for me. I then gained fullness as these hairs gained in diameter as they matured.

 

However, I was still wearing my hair system, while wearing clips and taking it off as much as possible. I also cut the tape tab down to 1/3 it's normal size and used it only on at the far forward edge. Essentially, like grass, hair growth can be inhibited if it is constantly covered over (think of grass with carpet over it in the backyard).

 

It was not only my second session of another approximately 1,500 grafts in the front and mid scalp grew in that I felt I had sufficient density and fullness to being transitioning out of the hair system.

 

What I did at that time was get a smaller hair system for my crown. Then my two sessions of hair transplants in the front combed back into and through the hair system and gave me a natural hairline with a full look.

 

I then got a third session of just under 1,500 grafts in my crown and ultimately burned my final hair system (i.e. like a feminist burning her bra).

 

It was a gradual process that took almost two years. Of course, today with larger sessions I could have done it faster.

 

You might want to consider building up a strong hairline and frontal third and wearing a small hair system behind it for the near future. It is much easier to wear a hair system when you have a natural real hairline.

 

Bill and I will be getting Dr. Epstein's input and monitoring your progress as will this community.

 

I can understand your frustration, since at this point your hair growth is indeed not as full as could be fairly expected.

 

Dr. Epstein has a long history of great results and responsiveness to patient concerns. I expect that he will do every thing possible to meet your expectations.

 

I recommend that you give it another 3 months before reaching any conclusions. You may just be a late bloomer.

 

Please keep us all posted. I suggest that you create a photo album to post your current and future photos, which you can then link to from this forum topic.

 

I know we all understand your disappointment and we are all pulling for you.

 

Keep your chin up. We are all in this with you as is Dr. Epstein.

 

Best wishes for late stage growth.

 

Pat

Never Forget - It's what radiates from within, not from your skin, that really matters!

My Hair Loss Blog

Sharing is what keeps this community vital. Please join in. To learn how I restored my hair and started this community, click here.

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  • Senior Member

I know Dr. Epstein didn't get where he is ripping people off so I'm sure this will be ok in the end. It's just the waiting game that is killing me. I don't use tape on my hair piece I use clips and they are nowhere near the transplanted hair. In the front I use glue and have the hair piece pulled down below the transplanted hairline so it is very rare that any glue would get in the hairline area where the transplanted hair is. My plan is to have only a crown piece about the size of a silver dollar which my stylist has already made for me. It doesn't look like I'll be able to use it anytime soon though. I really appreciate all of the posts and the personalized attention you are giving me.

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Senior Member

I heard back from Dr. Epstein (he's really good about getting back to you). He agrees that I have lower than expected growth at this time and there could be several possible reasons for this. Gray hair tends to be slower growing (I do have some gray hair), a hairpiece might slow it down (not sure how since it is lace but I guess it is possible), or it may happen for no reason. He says in the next four to six months there should be at least another 30 to 40% growth. He will stand by his work as I knew he would and replace any grafts that do not grow. I guess when he sees me he has a way of counting the grafts to know how many may have not been successful. I think I have a good amount of donor hair available but I hate to think that I may have lost some of that finite supply.

 

We are going to see where I am in about a month and then determine if I can proceed with the second session or if I should postpone it. He was adamant to say he can get hair to grow where it is needed. I hope then next session he really packs the hair in thick. I think I'll probably put the remaining grafts in the front and wear a crown piece after that matures. One day I may finally go back and get the crown done as well. So, I'll let you guys know what happens in about a month.

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Senior Member

I dont agree in just replacing the grafts that dont grow being called standing behind his work 100% You should be given your money back and a free session if things dont improve. Those were lame excuses he gave and now you have a ton a grafts that possibly didnt survive . Those are precious grafts that you may need some day. I know your frustration and sadness .I felt those emotions along with extreme rage after my first procedure .Keep you head head up

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  • Senior Member

LOL!!!

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Senior Member

Well, maybe I should talk to him about that. Maybe I should also consider another unbiased opinion. After all I have to live with this for the rest of my life. You're also right, I'm not a rich man so this was a sizable investment for me.

NW5

Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007

2520 grafts

471 one hair grafts

1540 two hair grafts

505 three hair grafts

5070 Total hair count

 

Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008

2384 grafts

870 one hair grafts

1150 two hair grafts

364 three and four hair grafts

4262 Total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009

1896 grafts

760 one hair grafts

852 two hair grafts

288 three hair grafts

46 four hair grafts

3362 total hair count

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011

1191 grafts

447 one hair grafts

580 two hair grafts

150 three hair grafts

14 four hair grafts

2113 total hair count

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  • Senior Member

Why don't you try taking that thing off for good? I tried one of the "Hair Club" systems and to be honest, I felt 100% better after I took it off after a week and had a shaved down head (first time in my life at that time).

 

It was liberating just after a week to get it off, so imagine it would be a great rush after a long length of time.

100? 'mini' grapfts by Latham's Hair Clinic - 1991 (Removed 50 plugs by Cooley 3/08.)

2750 FU 3/20/08 by Dr. Cooley

 

My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Cooley

 

Current regimen:

1.66 mg Proscar M-W-F

Rogaine 5% Foam - every now and then

AndroGel - once daily

Lipitor - 5 mg every other day

Weightlifting - 2x per week

Jogging - 3x per week

 

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  • Senior Member

Time to do something Im sorry to hear about your lack of growth. I had an ht with Dr. Epstein 2 months ago. I am still in the waiting stage. I was glad to hear that Dr. E will stand by his work for you. When you spend that type of $$$$ and you really dont have it,bothers me that you where really counting on a big change,then you get dissapointed. I feel for you man!!! Keep your chin up and lets believe that all things will workout to your situation.

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