Turnaround the hairrestoration threathment!

[hairobservator]

Hello there,

..I want to do another hairtransplant but why begins/starts a hairtransplant with taking out donorhair and not with making inplantholes?

 

I already have 6000 grafts with strip- & fue hairtransplantation on my before big bald head but still want to do some more..

 

On monday I have a hairconsult with Dr. Gene & Dr. Fung of Natural Clinic in Maastricht(Holland). European hairtransplant leading instituut Laser Aesthetic is the new partner of the old Gho Clinic..

 

I want a SITEFUE by turning around the threathment("quick inplant technique) and I dont want the regrow in the donorarea, as a hairpatient I want double grafting in the threathment area if this HM is really working?

 

Look for my discussions already on Hairlosstalk/HairSite or HTM!

 

http://www.hairtransplantmagazine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=734

 

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=32801

 

Greatings Hairobservator

Im from Holland and 35 years young!

[hairobservator]

Forgot the HairSite discussion, I hope you have some good answers for me ore options, maybe something I could ask the medical team at Natural Clinic on monday? Are there any hairsurgeons overhere?

 

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&f...c_id=44151&mode=full

Hairsite4.com - Viewing topic #44151 - GEN????° & FUNG MD hairtransplantation at Natural Clinic!

 

Greatings Hairobservator

more info:

www.hairlase.com

www.naturalclinic.nl

[nobuzz4me]

Originally posted by hairobservator:

Hello there,

..I want to do another hairtransplant but why begins/starts a hairtransplant with taking out donorhair and not with making inplantholes?

 

 

Hello there,

 

I am no HT surgeon but I would reason this is why:

 

1) The grafts take some time to be prepared from the strip so if the implant sites (slits vs holes now!), which are much smaller now than ever, would start to heal on their own and close up too soon.

 

2) Until you know the graft count how would you know how many implant sites to cut?

[NervousNelly]

I think that NoBuzz has explained things well. There might be other reasoning but those are the 2 primary as well as wanting to limit blood loss.

[Bill - Seemiller]

hairrob,

 

nobuzz is right on the money. The incisions in the recipient area would start to heal if they were done first and without knowing how many donor FUs there are, one wouldn't know how many recipient sites to make. Additionally, I think it's better to get the worst part of the surgery over with first (cutting out the donor area and stitching it up) so it can begin to heal.

 

Yes, there are doctors who post on this forum as well as the others.

 

Bill

[hairobservator]

..the inplantholes have some very little medicalclips insite after creating them so they dont heal and if you maked to maney holes its no problem but what is if you have taking out to maney donorhairgrafts(!), throw them away?

 

You need two medicalteams with nurses for cutting and inplanting the grafts, two nurses are cutting and giving the hairfollikels to the nurses who are planting the grafts into the holes! With FUE you do a 100 or 200 grafts and then you start with inplanting after that you repeat the same procedure.. you can also take one out with FUE and put it directly in to the inplanthole!?

 

Greatings Hairobservator

"quick inplant technique"?

[Bill - Seemiller]

hairobservator,

 

I'm afraid I'm a little lost. I'm not sure if it's because your English is choppy or if you are describing something entirely different. Donor hairs are never thrown away. The exact number of incisions are made to the exact number of donor hairs extracted. I have never observed or done extensive research on FUE, so I'm sure the surgery works differently.

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say there are medical clips in the site after creating them so they don't heal. What are you referring to? I also noticed under your signature you are advertising "quick implant technique". Do you work for a clinic that uses this technique or something? I can't say I'm familiar with it.

 

Bill

[hairobservator]

I think it?‚??s a good idear to change the hairtransplant threathment by turning it around. I already had this idear for two years and all the experts(doctors too!) are looking strange at me but nobody say?‚??s it?‚??s no good idear!

 

With strip hairtransplantation it?‚??s very easely, first make holes and the take out the hairstrip, two nurses are cutting the grafts and two are inplanting it directly into the holes! The hairtransplant goes in one move!

 

With FUE is more difficult for the hairpatient, he has to move all the time but it is possible! First make holes and then take out 100-200 grafts and put them in the inplantholes etc..

 

After Orentreich MD introduced hairtransplantation in 1959 everybody is doing it this way(first take out donorhair - then make holes and then inplanting)but maybe it?‚??s better the other way?

 

Greatings Hairobservator

[Bill - Seemiller]

hairobservator,

 

I disagree with you for the reasons I posted above. It sounds like the only reason to try to do it this way is the "potential" to save time...but I would argue that it wouldn't. Whether you do one first or the other, the time it takes to do both would be the same. If you shower first and then eat breakfast OR if you eat breakfast and then shower...wouldn't that take the same amount of time? Anyway..I don't have any more to say on the subject. If you have any other concerns or questions, I'll be happy to help.

 

Bill

[hairobservator]

Breakfast- shower / grafting - donorhair

Shower - breakfast / donorhair - grafting

 

Maybe the breakfast is waiting to long to be eaten if you showering/washing to long! The hairgrafts must be quicker back into the blood!

 

Medicalclips could be used but the healingtime is long anough by strip, with fue you create a 100 inplatingholes - take some fue-grafts out of donorarea then inplanting and again the same!

 

Maybe it?‚??s for better results in hairrestoration worldwide! Hairgrafts will be quicker back into the bloodline! Hairtransplantation has to go in one move!

 

The time that donorhair is waiting for inplanting is to long I think!

First take out donorhair, then create a hairline & inplantholes and then put in the hairgrafts for inplanting! It?‚??s better to create the inplantholes first with a new hairline if this is needed and then start with taking out the donorhair and directly with the inplanting of those hairgrafts into the threathmentarea!

 

Maybe it?‚??s stopping the shedding this way?

 

The most hairexperts/hairsurgeons I spoke to over here in Europe say it?‚??s a nice idear! Te most experience hairdoc in Europe Dr. Malte Villnow(more then 10.000 threathments!)sayd to me: "Keine slechte Idee Frenkie!" - not a bad idear frenkie!

 

I like to have an opinion of a american hairdoc!

 

Greatings Hairobservator

"QUICK INPLANT TECHNIQUE"

[hairobservator]

HAIRFUE, QUICK IMPLANT TECHNIQUE ore even better QUICKGRAFTING!

 

My goal is too achieve better results in hairrestoration worldwide, I want 100% regrowth!

 

QUICKGRAFTING

In less then one hour all hairgrafts could be back/returned in to your skin with a strip threathment - with fue it?‚??s directly possible ore after 50/100 hairgrafts you change position!

 

In 2004 I caled it HAIRFUE(quickgrafting with fue!) and I give that name too Dr. Kokott(http://www.hairfue.de) who loved my idear! Dr. Kokott is the creator of slitgrafting(!), he was medical leading hairdoc of Moser Medical 1990-1994, together with Malte Villnow MD my favorit hairdoc they are the most experience hairdocs in Europe!

 

Greatings Hairobservator

"The QUICKGRAFTING method"

[John_in_NC]

My goal is too achieve better results in hairrestoration worldwide, I want 100% regrowth!

 

 

how about 200% ? Keep repeating it enough times and it will happen.

[the B spot]

Can someone explain this to me?

 

I'm not sure if I need to go back to school or put a gun to my head

 

Anyway, poihrirhurhwh rihrherhqafhoiqrfhoiwrhfoiwhroihrfrfhehehioefefoefehoiehfiehfqhefhefhqefhefhoeirhfqirfhoir!!!!!!

 

I call this "Hair-Shit"

 

It's a new breakthough as well................

 

wtf?

[nobuzz4me]

Come on B-Spot get with the program, its taking the hairworld by storm! I am going to pull my own hair out after reading this garble!

[Bill - Seemiller]

Come on B-Spot get with the program, its taking the hairworld by storm! I am going to pull my own hair out after reading this garble!

 

NoBuzz

 

Oh great...there go all my new grafts after pulling them all out trying to figure out this nonsense

[hairobservator]

Oh yeah hairpatients are helping hairpatients!

Still my bellyfeeling say??????s quickgrafting is the future in hairrestoration!

Look over here!

www.transhair.com on the top to the right you klick on transhair reportages!

What??????s the time between picture 18 & picture 30! I think more then a 100 minutes!

That??????s much to long for hairgrafts to be out of the skin, this must be done quicker!

You all overhere think the hairgrafts are 100% growing by the regular threathments?

I think it??????s maybe worlwide 60 ore 70%!

The results with FUE are also not very great so far, I think it??????s because the hairgrafts are much to long out of the skin, several hours isn??????t good!

That??????s why I say Hairfue, "quick implant technique" ore even better QUICKGRAFTING!

But guy??????s it??????s possible this quickgrafting!

 

Greatings Hairobservator

[NervousNelly]

Ah, yes you're right.

[Janna]

It was kind of hard with hairobservator's broken English to decipher this new method. I think what he's trying to say is the length of time the tissue is out of the body is too long with the current method, therefore to get better regrowth, make the incisions first, then take the donor strip out. Thus allowing for cut grafts to be planted immediately.

 

IMO, it would not shorten the length of the total procedure time but, it certainly couldn't hurt for the grafts to be planted right after dissection. The incisions would in no way be healed up for planting. In fact, you can plant grafts into incisions made the day prior.

 

Even tho I may agree that he makes a good case, and it may be worth further investigation, I do not agree with the percentages he's stating. 100% regrowth? There are other factors than just planting grafts right away. Do you have the right instruments, correct size incisions, experience, etc.? I also do not agree with his claim of 60-70% regrowth with current method. Maybe regrowth in countries outside of US and Canada are so low that they bring our average regrowth way down. From what I hear at the conferences and experiences with our own clinic, we're getting somewhere around 97% regrowth.

 

I think hairobservator should be commended for bringing new ideas to light.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hairobservator,

 

I should probably apologize for my above post since it could be seen as insulting. I meant it jokingly, but sometimes jokes can be hurtful. So hairobservator, sorry if I offended you. Cheers my friend.

 

Janna,

 

Excellent response to hairobservator. Since you come from tech experience, you have more firsthand knowledge and experience with this...but if I am correct, the length of time the grafts to be planted are out would still be the same. As the techs cut the grafts, the incisions are being made, and soon after, grafts are being placed into the incisions. Now it's definitely possible that if the incisions were made and then the donor area taken out, that as the grafts are cut, maybe 50 at a time, they are continually brought over, therefore minimizing the amount of times the grafts are out of the scalp. However, if the incisions are made first, then the donor strip is taken out, wouldn't that potentially give the recipient incisions a chance to start healing, therefore closing up? Just a thought.

 

Bill

[hairobservator]

Thank you Janna for supporting me with "quickgrafting"!

I think the techs work is very important!

 

But the hairtransplants in the usa/canada are not better then in holland & germany! Ask your hairdoc mister Ron Shapiro if he knows Malte Villnow MD!

Some hairpatients get a regrowth of more then 90% but not every hairpatient! I have seen some results of Dr. Bosley, Dr. Rassmann, Dr. Elliot and Dr. Ochs in Hollywood but that was not better then overhere in Holland/Germany!

 

I think the german hairdoc Malte Villnow MD is the really worldleading expert of hairtransplanting! After Dallas 1994 he is not visiting any conference of ISHRS and that?‚??s for a good reason!

 

Is your hairdoc a friend of Walter Unger MD?

 

Look at my new message on HairSite, there?‚??s something to in it of Unger/Shapiro MD!

 

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&fo...&mesg_id=51273&page=

 

I give some more hairnews next week when I visited Dr. Malte Villnow in D??sseldorf!

 

But it is making a difference if the hairgrafts are implantet direct after donorclosing ore when they start with implanting after one hour ore more, maybe 100 minutes! - the last hairgrafts will be hours waiting with a megasession, the same with the regular fue threathments!

 

No problem Bill i?‚??m a strong guy with an own head full of new idears for hairtransplanting! And I know what i?‚??m talking about believe me, I became an expert through my own hairproblem!

 

I will be back!

 

Greatings Hairobservator

[hairobservator]

97% regrowth(!), I don?‚??t believe that Janna and I?‚??m sure you not know this for sure too!

I think it?‚??s over 70% maybe 80% worldwide, that means in the states/canada but also in holland/germany!

 

OK I want to achieve a 100& regrowth but if this is really realistic I don?‚??t know!

I think maybe it could be done better with quickgrafting, I hope it brings better results en stops the shedding!

 

Holland is the hairtransplanting country nr 1 worldwide and I think we got overhere allot of good hairdocs!

 

Sorry from me to Ron Shapiro MD about my words to his book together with Walter Unger MD on HairSite but I don?‚??t like it when they not recommend hairlase and my favorit hairdoc Malte Villnow MD!

 

In German, I believe Walter Unger MD knows that language!

"Malte Villnow ist das A&O der Sch?¶nheitschirurgie und wir d??rfen froh sein das dieser Sch?¶nheitschirurg sich angezogen f??hlte zu die Haartransplantation und sich dar spezialisiert hat!" "Besuch im mahl in seiner D??sseldorfer Praxisklinik ist meine Emphelung zu dir f??r dein ebentuellen n?¤chsten Buch ??ber Haarchirurgie! MFG Frenkie the hairobservator.

 

Greatings Hairobservator

[NervousNelly]

Hairobservator,

 

I think that it is the broken english and language barrier that makes it very difficult for us to fully understand the points that you are trying to make.

 

After Janna's post I have been able to comprehend about "quickgrafting" and do see some legitimacy to it but I don't know if it is such an advanced alteration that will drastically improve graft growth percentages. Possibly?

 

I would agree with you that there are probably several excellent european physicians that should possibly get a little more recognition. I believe that Pat (the editor of this site) is planning to address that concern by visiting more clinics overseas.

 

It appears that you are quite educated on HT and it is a shame for the language issue as I'm sure that we all would benefit from some of your insight. Can you post photos of yourself and the work that Dr. Villnow performed? We are always interested in seeing positive results from anywhere in the world.

 

Thanks for your insightful posts.

[Janna]

Hi Bill,

 

Well, I'm speaking now just for our clinic; we have six techs who work everyday. Once the donor strip is taken out, four techs start slivering and dissecting the grafts while the other two assist with suturing and administering local anesthetic to the front/top of head for recipient site incisions before cutting grafts. This process of suture/anesthetic can take about 30 minutes to an hour. Once the patient is numbed up, the doctor starts making incisions. Our technicians cut approximately 200 to 250 grafts per hour under the microscope. These are fine, trimmed grafts. The process of making incision can take anywhere from 1 to 3 hours depending on how many incisions need to be made. An hour after strip removal, there are approximately 1000+ grafts ready for insertion yet the incisions are not ready for planting.

 

I know there are doctors/other clincis that make faster incisons than ours sometimes, and there's also the technique of making 1/3 or 1/2 of the total incisions, plant, then make another 1/3, etc. Even with this method, you have the first cut grafts sitting out of body for minimum of an hour.

 

I don't know how imperative it is to plant the grafts within minutes, and studies have been done to see how long grafts can be safely out of the body. The longer grafts are out of the body the less viable they are. We, along with many other clinics keep the cut grafts chilled on ice soaked with saline. The studies done have stated chilled grafts can be out of body for 6-8 hours before losing viability. This does not mean the grafts are dead after 8 hours.

 

We get great results with current method, however, it never hurts to reevaluate even a proven method to constantly improve.

[the B spot]

Sorry Folks, but this guy has been accused of spamming several sites in order to "push" this technique or the Doc he works for.

 

He is targeting all of the main Hairloss Forums and all of his posts up to now have been copied verbatim.

 

Sorry HAIR Frenkie, but I think your a spammer/shill.

Unfortunately, because of your English, I can't really tell who/what. Perhaps Malte Villnow?

[Bill - Seemiller]

B Spot,

 

I have also noticed his posts on other forums. And this last post does indicate that he is trying to push his doc, whoever "Malte Villnow MD" is, I don't know.

 

Janna,

 

You stated:

 

The studies done have stated chilled grafts can be out of body for 6-8 hours before losing viability.

 

I think this says it all. If indeed this is true, then there should be no reason to think that this "quick implant technique" will be of any benefit or consequence (general statement here, not stating you Janna think it's superior or inferior). The concept in itself doesn't seem to be anything substantial or new, at least from my logical mind, though I admit, I'd like to hear from a doctor on this. Has no other doctor thought about this before? In a field where accuracy is extremely important, I imagine that all options were explored about what would provide for the most accurate and highest yield hair transplant. That being said, I'd find it hard to believe any of our top doctors would look at this and say "I never thought about this before". Just my thoughts, but I'd love to hear from a doctor on it.

 

Bill