Posters who are employed

[Grace]

Please note that this post requires the reader to have a bit of patience to carefully read the links to other threads as well as a certain level of mental capacity. Also please note that it might take awhile for me to reply to all of your comments because I'm very busy with my job. When I have sometime, I will try post again. Realize that I'm disclosing the fact that I'm affliated with a Bosley clinic to abide by forum rules, however what I'm about to write in this post is ENTIRELY my PERSONAL OPINION and and does not represent Bosley. For the time it takes for you to read this post, please think of me a mere 30 year old woman representing herself. This post is more geared towards the fresh new members who quietly read this forum.

 

The background story:

My motive for me to originally post on this forum before going on my vacation was to rectify the *DEFINITIVE* statement given to a prospective patient of mine that ALL Bosley doctors are butchers. In fact, *I am not here to recommend Bosley at all.*

 

The truth about this forum as I stated before in my thread to PowerRanger:

*There are educational information on this website*. However, this forum is dominated by a handful of clinics that hire people to proactively post on the forum. Thus clinics earn a reputation not based on their actual work but visibilty. Patients end up with a deceptive fixated view on a handful of clinics and miss the holistic picture of what the HT industry is really like. This website is *NOT* the golden list of *all* good doctors. If a doctor is good but does not want to pay s/he will not be listed on this website.

 

I cannot let the trend continue to happen in this industry where *SO MANY GOOD* doctors work HARD humbly without the "aid" of "cheerleaders". This is 2007 and not 10 years ago. There are many good doctors who can perform microscropic follicular unit transplantation nowadays.

 

I *UNDERSTAND* that some employees of clinics are more "geniune" in their intentions on what they post and working in their clinics at a more medical capacity. However, I think it is important to have a centralized list to keep track of *ALL* posters who are employed/paid. Here is the list please correct me if I'm wrong and I'll delete and repost. (all pictures have been taken from public domains at hairtransplanetnetwork and hairtransplantementor..com - hope you guys don't mind since you have nothing to hide, right?):

 

 

Maybe there are more who don't disclose their information.

 

It is my opinion that there is a greater chance for *OBJECTIVITY TO BE LOST* when you are paid.

 

Before going on my vacation to Bali Indonesia, I took A LOT of time (over 2 full days) to study the past threads of this forum as well used resources from Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations, where I received my Bachelor's and Master's degree in the analysis of public opinion, to try to understand what this forum is all about and the protagonists herein.

 

My conclusion:

 

*BEWARE* of the *DEFINITIVE* statements being made by some posters. Some statements are *OPINIONS* NOT FACTS. This forum is to a certain extent educational but potential patients and readers must *FILTER* some of the information being presented especially those from employed/paid posters. The reason being is that employed/paid posters have subjective tendencies (which they not be fully aware of) to *MANIPULATE* consciously or unconsciously, information IMO in order to *DEFEND* their clinics. I can show *NUMEROUS EXAMPLES* of this in past threads. You know what? Why don't I prove this notion to you all infront of your very eyes. I will show you how *some* information *can* be twisted on this forum.

 

Watch how the employed/paid posters will miraclously *POP UP* and "SWOOP IN FOR THE KILL" when I make these *UNDENIABLY TRUE AND FACTUAL* statements:

 

Statement 1: Even the doctors who are considered to be "elite" by this forum have unsatisfied patients. Here is one example of a patient who has expressed his unsatisfaction with his results from Dr. Victor Hasson (Please don't remove this link, I'm not posting it for "promotional" purposes):

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?cati...63&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

 

Statement 2: Some people have said that SMG is being ran similiar to that of a "hair mill". Take a look at these two threads carefully:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...=213000966#213000966

also read arfy's comment in this thread:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...216051861#5216051861

 

 

Statement 3: Dr. Shapiro does not do his own phone consultations and have Matt Zupan, someone with no formal medical training, determine donor hair density. As a results there have been patients who have been *UNSATISFIED* with their donor assessments. Here is one example (please pay close attendtion to B spot's response to Mudpuppy):

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...271090502#3271090502

 

Pat himself was dissappointed with his results so far from his most recent HT with SMG:

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=152031

 

 

Statement 4: Dr. Victor Hasson has stated in the following thread that he will be disclosing hair counts, but to this day we have yet to see *ONE* patient who was given his/her hair count from H & W. Even the highly respected Moderator, Bill, is too *CHICKEN* to call Dr. Hasson and ask for his own hair count to benefit this forum he represents:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...171097662#2171097662

 

 

Statement 5: Shapiro Medical Group website is very outdated with non-current information. Eventhough it was mentioned numerous times that this problem will be rectifed, nothing has happened for years. Take a look for yourselves:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/346...391015582#4391015582

 

 

 

Please, please, please *don't* interpret the above statements as personal attacks on the doctors. I'm just giving the facts and it's my way to show that the end justifies the means. Doctors especially those in the coalition are very good doctors but there are not gods deserve of worshipping and NOT the *ultimate list* of all good doctors - this is a true fact. In my opinion, doctors who perform microscopic Follicular Unit Transplantation and who can show a dozen of good before/after pics, clean post-op pics as well as allow prospective patients to talk/see other live patients are "great enough".

 

Remember what I said in the beginning of this post about the fact that the forums are fixated with a handful of clinics? Well, Dr. Shapiro and Dr. Hasson are very good doctors. However, I feel that in this industry certain doctors (you know who) have been elevated to some sort of Hollywood celebrity status. I feel that some patients just merely go to these doctors just to have bragging rights. Some of these patients don't even talk to doctors over the phone until the day of surgery!

 

*ON THE BRIGHTER SIDE* about this forum, from my study of past threads there are several *UNPAID* regular posters who are extremely knowledgable, objective and know when to re-evaluate their stances when appropriate. Those saints IMO are the following people in my order of preference:

 

folica -

The understanding father in Phoenix who has empathy towards young patients (... and I'd love to go on a date with you thanks for asking!)

 

NervousNelly -

The great medical doctor from Michigan with a well-rounded perspective - a true gift to this forum.

 

Gorpy -

The most logical and systematic engineer of Arizona with the best hairline this world has ever seen.

 

John_in_NC -

The nice guy who has a keen eye to spot an unnatural hairline a mile away everytime - Good call on Bill's hairline.

 

spoon -

The quiet guy who speaks out only when it matters the most and move mountains with his solid arguements.

 

Aquarius -

A good "friend" of James. He has good intentions and shows his love to others in his own distinct way.

 

Mrjb -

AKA JOBI, who knows the true meaning of "cheerleader".

 

 

On the same token, in my opinion there are posters who are apart of the "mob" and who like to spew blatent and *cannot be trusted*. I won't name names but you'll see what I mean. I realize that this post will get the *MOB* going so to all the quiet readers out there, please observe carefully how *CHILDISH* some of the members of the mob will be in their use of foul language.

 

Do you guys want to hear my interpretation of why the B Spot is now hired by Shapiro Medical (which he might not realize)? Notice how more and more patients these days are deciding between Dr. Hasson or Dr. Shapiro? A good example is the poster, EmuSteve. SMG now more than ever needs a vocal *cheerleader*, someone who has an *IN* in this community to counteract Jotronic.

SMG's Less agressive session sizes Vs. H&W's More agressive sizes

SMG's Stick-n-Place Vs. H&W's No Stick-n-Place

SMG's Sagitals VS. H&W Laterals

IMO, the passive battle between SMG and H&W lives on.

 

You guys should have read what B spot wrote to Jotronic before he edited his post in this thread about the difference in philosophy on session sizes (B spot, what did you and Jotronic talked about over the phone?):

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/346...221046223#2221046223

 

To summarize, the points I'm trying to make:

1). There are many great doctors in and outside the coalition who do not have employees posting.

2). If possible, we should strive to have patients INDENPENDENTLY post results.

3). Filter information when appropriate particularly from those who have financial incentives.

4). The HT industry is more political than you all think.

5). Have some correspondance either via phone or email with the doctor DIRECTLY and not soley from the consultants before booking surgery. It is your head.

6). Sometimes a reality check is in order.

 

Thank you and I would like to extend my *apologies* to those I have offended,

Grace C, MS

 

 

(Yes, believe or not as you can see from the photo shoot of mine....even I have vanity. For those who dare, why don't you show your faces as well and let's talk face to face. Sometimes I wish these forums were face to face.)

[Grace]

Please note that this post requires the reader to have a bit of patience to carefully read the links to other threads as well as a certain level of mental capacity. Also please note that it might take awhile for me to reply to all of your comments because I'm very busy with my job. When I have sometime, I will try post again. Realize that I'm disclosing the fact that I'm affliated with a Bosley clinic to abide by forum rules, however what I'm about to write in this post is ENTIRELY my PERSONAL OPINION and and does not represent Bosley. For the time it takes for you to read this post, please think of me a mere 30 year old woman representing herself. This post is more geared towards the fresh new members who quietly read this forum.

 

The background story:

My motive for me to originally post on this forum before going on my vacation was to rectify the *DEFINITIVE* statement given to a prospective patient of mine that ALL Bosley doctors are butchers. In fact, *I am not here to recommend Bosley at all.*

 

The truth about this forum as I stated before in my thread to PowerRanger:

*There are educational information on this website*. However, this forum is dominated by a handful of clinics that hire people to proactively post on the forum. Thus clinics earn a reputation not based on their actual work but visibilty. Patients end up with a deceptive fixated view on a handful of clinics and miss the holistic picture of what the HT industry is really like. This website is *NOT* the golden list of *all* good doctors. If a doctor is good but does not want to pay s/he will not be listed on this website.

 

I cannot let the trend continue to happen in this industry where *SO MANY GOOD* doctors work HARD humbly without the "aid" of "cheerleaders". This is 2007 and not 10 years ago. There are many good doctors who can perform microscropic follicular unit transplantation nowadays.

 

I *UNDERSTAND* that some employees of clinics are more "geniune" in their intentions on what they post and working in their clinics at a more medical capacity. However, I think it is important to have a centralized list to keep track of *ALL* posters who are employed/paid. Here is the list please correct me if I'm wrong and I'll delete and repost. (all pictures have been taken from public domains at hairtransplanetnetwork and hairtransplantementor..com - hope you guys don't mind since you have nothing to hide, right?):

 

 

Maybe there are more who don't disclose their information.

 

It is my opinion that there is a greater chance for *OBJECTIVITY TO BE LOST* when you are paid.

 

Before going on my vacation to Bali Indonesia, I took A LOT of time (over 2 full days) to study the past threads of this forum as well used resources from Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations, where I received my Bachelor's and Master's degree in the analysis of public opinion, to try to understand what this forum is all about and the protagonists herein.

 

My conclusion:

 

*BEWARE* of the *DEFINITIVE* statements being made by some posters. Some statements are *OPINIONS* NOT FACTS. This forum is to a certain extent educational but potential patients and readers must *FILTER* some of the information being presented especially those from employed/paid posters. The reason being is that employed/paid posters have subjective tendencies (which they not be fully aware of) to *MANIPULATE* consciously or unconsciously, information IMO in order to *DEFEND* their clinics. I can show *NUMEROUS EXAMPLES* of this in past threads. You know what? Why don't I prove this notion to you all infront of your very eyes. I will show you how *some* information *can* be twisted on this forum.

 

Watch how the employed/paid posters will miraclously *POP UP* and "SWOOP IN FOR THE KILL" when I make these *UNDENIABLY TRUE AND FACTUAL* statements:

 

Statement 1: Even the doctors who are considered to be "elite" by this forum have unsatisfied patients. Here is one example of a patient who has expressed his unsatisfaction with his results from Dr. Victor Hasson (Please don't remove this link, I'm not posting it for "promotional" purposes):

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?cati...63&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

 

Statement 2: Some people have said that SMG is being ran similiar to that of a "hair mill". Take a look at these two threads carefully:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...=213000966#213000966

also read arfy's comment in this thread:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...216051861#5216051861

 

 

Statement 3: Dr. Shapiro does not do his own phone consultations and have Matt Zupan, someone with no formal medical training, determine donor hair density. As a results there have been patients who have been *UNSATISFIED* with their donor assessments. Here is one example (please pay close attendtion to B spot's response to Mudpuppy):

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...271090502#3271090502

 

Pat himself was dissappointed with his results so far from his most recent HT with SMG:

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=152031

 

 

Statement 4: Dr. Victor Hasson has stated in the following thread that he will be disclosing hair counts, but to this day we have yet to see *ONE* patient who was given his/her hair count from H & W. Even the highly respected Moderator, Bill, is too *CHICKEN* to call Dr. Hasson and ask for his own hair count to benefit this forum he represents:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...171097662#2171097662

 

 

Statement 5: Shapiro Medical Group website is very outdated with non-current information. Eventhough it was mentioned numerous times that this problem will be rectifed, nothing has happened for years. Take a look for yourselves:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/346...391015582#4391015582

 

 

 

Please, please, please *don't* interpret the above statements as personal attacks on the doctors. I'm just giving the facts and it's my way to show that the end justifies the means. Doctors especially those in the coalition are very good doctors but there are not gods deserve of worshipping and NOT the *ultimate list* of all good doctors - this is a true fact. In my opinion, doctors who perform microscopic Follicular Unit Transplantation and who can show a dozen of good before/after pics, clean post-op pics as well as allow prospective patients to talk/see other live patients are "great enough".

 

Remember what I said in the beginning of this post about the fact that the forums are fixated with a handful of clinics? Well, Dr. Shapiro and Dr. Hasson are very good doctors. However, I feel that in this industry certain doctors (you know who) have been elevated to some sort of Hollywood celebrity status. I feel that some patients just merely go to these doctors just to have bragging rights. Some of these patients don't even talk to doctors over the phone until the day of surgery!

 

*ON THE BRIGHTER SIDE* about this forum, from my study of past threads there are several *UNPAID* regular posters who are extremely knowledgable, objective and know when to re-evaluate their stances when appropriate. Those saints IMO are the following people in my order of preference:

 

folica -

The understanding father in Phoenix who has empathy towards young patients (... and I'd love to go on a date with you thanks for asking!)

 

NervousNelly -

The great medical doctor from Michigan with a well-rounded perspective - a true gift to this forum.

 

Gorpy -

The most logical and systematic engineer of Arizona with the best hairline this world has ever seen.

 

John_in_NC -

The nice guy who has a keen eye to spot an unnatural hairline a mile away everytime - Good call on Bill's hairline.

 

spoon -

The quiet guy who speaks out only when it matters the most and move mountains with his solid arguements.

 

Aquarius -

A good "friend" of James. He has good intentions and shows his love to others in his own distinct way.

 

Mrjb -

AKA JOBI, who knows the true meaning of "cheerleader".

 

 

On the same token, in my opinion there are posters who are apart of the "mob" and who like to spew blatent and *cannot be trusted*. I won't name names but you'll see what I mean. I realize that this post will get the *MOB* going so to all the quiet readers out there, please observe carefully how *CHILDISH* some of the members of the mob will be in their use of foul language.

 

Do you guys want to hear my interpretation of why the B Spot is now hired by Shapiro Medical (which he might not realize)? Notice how more and more patients these days are deciding between Dr. Hasson or Dr. Shapiro? A good example is the poster, EmuSteve. SMG now more than ever needs a vocal *cheerleader*, someone who has an *IN* in this community to counteract Jotronic.

SMG's Less agressive session sizes Vs. H&W's More agressive sizes

SMG's Stick-n-Place Vs. H&W's No Stick-n-Place

SMG's Sagitals VS. H&W Laterals

IMO, the passive battle between SMG and H&W lives on.

 

You guys should have read what B spot wrote to Jotronic before he edited his post in this thread about the difference in philosophy on session sizes (B spot, what did you and Jotronic talked about over the phone?):

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/346...221046223#2221046223

 

To summarize, the points I'm trying to make:

1). There are many great doctors in and outside the coalition who do not have employees posting.

2). If possible, we should strive to have patients INDENPENDENTLY post results.

3). Filter information when appropriate particularly from those who have financial incentives.

4). The HT industry is more political than you all think.

5). Have some correspondance either via phone or email with the doctor DIRECTLY and not soley from the consultants before booking surgery. It is your head.

6). Sometimes a reality check is in order.

 

Thank you and I would like to extend my *apologies* to those I have offended,

Grace C, MS

 

 

(Yes, believe or not as you can see from the photo shoot of mine....even I have vanity. For those who dare, why don't you show your faces as well and let's talk face to face. Sometimes I wish these forums were face to face.)

[Grace]

.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Grace,

 

Well this post of yours definitely proves one thing...

 

You have WAY too much time on your hands!

 

So in other words, the whole point of your post is an ambiguous statement:

 

"It is my opinion that there is a greater chance for *OBJECTIVITY TO BE LOST* when you are paid."

 

Not very definitive I'm afraid, though I suppose it was more tactful than your last set of posts.

 

And your purpose for doing so is...

 

"to rectify the *DEFINITIVE* statement given to a prospective patient of mine that ALL Bosley doctors are butchers

 

Please post a link to the post of the member who said "ALL Bosley doctors are butchers". I know I certainly didn't say it. Did another clinical consultant say it or a patient member?

 

My dear Grace...

 

You point out a few threads that show some of the discrepancies against some of our recommended physicians while completely ignoring the obvious overwhelming positive response of patient members of the years. You are simply taking the "facts" out of context because you are upset you lost a perspective patient.

 

So here are some of the obvious statements that need to be made.

 

Notice I used your original "fact" type format since you like those so much.

 

Fact 1: I have been a member here for 3.5 years and have contributed just about 4000 posts before I was employed by the Hair Transplant Network. This holds true for other members as well.

 

Fact 2: Our recommended clinics have been encouraged to post here, so the fact that there are a number of clinic representatives here should come as no surprise.

 

Fact 3: Anyone who is a clinical representative is required to say so in their signature, that way, there is no intent of deceiving forum members.

 

Fact 4: You are an employee of a hair transplant clinic here as well - therefore there is a "chance" that your objectivity could be lost .

 

Fact 5: Clinics must meet our high level of standards to be recommended here.

 

Fact 6: We do not deny that there might be other quality clinics out there, but it is also just as true that many clinics have been turned away because they cannot meet the membership criteria.

 

Fact 7: Not all the faces you've shown are representing recommended clinics here (Bverotti - Bart). In other words, we allow anybody to come and post here as long as they are being truthful and honest.

 

Fact 8: This forum is about publicly representing the truth for educational purposes. (Notice that none of the threads you've linked up to have been removed over the years - as they are opinions expressed by forum members, and their opinions matter).

 

Fact 9: The fact that Bosley and other clinics have developed consistently a bad name has nothing to do with this forum. It has to do with it's patients coming here and posting negative experience and pictures.

 

Fact 10: There is no doubt that even the best of physicians doesn't bat a 1000 (just as you posted the links above). But we look for consistency in our recommended physicians. So congratulations, you have successfully found a few of the imperfections in our recommended clinics. For every negative thread, there are about 100 times the number of positive ones. I can't say that for Bosley, sadly.

 

Fact 11: The Hair Transplant Network is always out seeking new hair restoration clinics to recommend while yet others have been removed for producing poor results.

 

Fact 12: There is no denial that this is a public forum filled with opinions - not only facts. In fact, selecting a hair transplant physician can be just as subjective as it is objective. But we believe in recommending those who have a proven public record of producing positive results period.

 

And finally...

 

Fact 13: We do not deny that our recommended clinics here pay a nominal fee to maintain their recommendation. I think the following thread sums this up nicely.

 

The truth is Grace...

 

I actually agree with your summarizing points.

 

Though we appreciate the clinical involvement we have here (as I said, we encourage it), I prefer reading experiences and seeing postoperative photos of those posted by the actual patient. Many patient experiences and pictures HAVE been posted here over the years (including my own way before I was employed here) AND can be found in our Hair Loss Weblogs

 

So at least you had the courage to show your face. Anytime you are up for a face to face conversation Gracey...I'm game.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[Grace]

Originally posted by Bill:

Grace,

 

Well this post of yours definitely proves one thing...

 

You have WAY too much time on your hands!

 

 

... I guess it's nice to hear that coming from someone with 4000 posts!!

 

You know what? I don't have a lot of time in my hands. I have a gift of finding information quickly that's all and I'm quite good with the computer. The thing with you Bill, is that you are always nitpicky and asking for proof, so I needed to research past threads in order to give you proof otherwise I won't have credibility. Sorry.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Grace,

 

I never said I didn't have way too much time on MY hands .

 

I am proud of the fact that I am nitpicky. Proof is what makes a point valid.

 

You have done a good job providing the only evidence to support your case.

 

But it doesn't change the fact that if you look at the whole picture - you will find an overwhelmingly positive patient response to our recommended physicians while the overwhelming patient response to Bosley has been negative.

 

It's not that I WANT it that way...it's just the way it is. Your clinic might be a good clinic...but you have not given anyone the chance to see that publicly. Instead you'd rather ridicule the integrity of this community.

 

Sorry my dear Gracey...

 

Perhaps you and I can get together for dinner sometime and chat.

 

But there is nothing really more to say to this post.

 

Bill

[Grace]

Originally posted by Bill:

Sorry my dear Gracey...

 

Perhaps you and I can get together for dinner sometime and chat.

 

 

Are you asking me out?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Because I like you Grace I have fixed the pictures you posted in your original thread. They went MIA for a minute there.

 

I did not modify anything else.

 

Bill

[the B spot]

I do NOT give you permission to use my pics.

 

I reserve that right for my friends and those who ask.

 

You are free to view them at your leisure.

 

Post some pics from your clinic if you want and have your photos critiqued.

 

Additionally-

 

Dr. Shapiro uses mostly acute sagittal incision but includes lateral incisions in his arsenal-- basically what he feels he needs to achieve the best results.

He possesses the skill to employ whatever method he deisres.

 

The doctors you keep referring to are the best in the world, which is why they lecture at the most important conferences and all over the entire world.

That is in addition to the amazing results we see and have seen.

 

There is no battle between SMG and H&W.

Posters like yourself are able to differentiate between the philosophy of each clinic and choose what fits them best.

 

I appreciate your opinion that I am the "lynchpin" in the "war" between SMG and H&W--- I also appreciate that you feel I am equal to Jotronics (a compliment) but the REAL truth Grace is that I am a part time patient advocate and a full-time law student.

 

I am here to help ALL sufferers AND help answer questions directed toward SMG.

That is it.

 

In addition, one of the threads you posted(mudpuppy) I regret very much--- I have tried very hard to make sure such an incident never happened again------ people do learn and grow through education and experience.

 

I am not here to "sway" you or change your mind, nor argue with you.

 

People like myself and others have nothing to prove--- I am a patient twice over, something I can actually relate to with every other sufferer, unlike many others.

 

Take Care,

J

[nikkop23]

If your motive for being here is to rectify statements made to a prospective patient of yours about Bosley, I don't see how you can try to convince us that your post has nothing to do with your affiliation with Bosley and that it's all a matter of personal opinion. Your sign-off is pretty disingenuous, and you can't have it both ways. If you know of Bosley doctors outside the coalition who do good work, then, as B-Spot said, post their results so we can evaluate them. Otherwise, it's really bad form to use other people's pictures without their permission, post glamour shots of your own as some sort of provocation, and then put an "MS" behind your name as if that's any kind of credential. What does a master's degree in "the analysis of public opinion" enable you to discern that other experienced, articulate posters here can't? Nothing. And let me guess, you keep telling us you're going on vacation so we won't be surprised when you stop responding to this thread. You haven't revealed anything that anyone here doesn't already know, and your supposed concern for newbies is more like a concern for newbies still considering Bosley.

[Gorpy]

Gorpy -

The most logical and systematic engineer of Arizona with the best hairline this world has ever seen.

 

Wow! A great compliment from a beautiful woman. I'm feelin' good!

 

Grace, do you like older guys ?

 

You know, I have to agree with some things here: As you know, I have always had a bit of a problem with clinics and their hired cheerleaders. Now, the trend is to require clinics to post more pictures? That can be good and bad. It's always good to see results, but will it result in more cheerleaders being hired? I hope not.

[Guest]

Wow Grace, pretty & smart!

 

As for B spot & his new position,

 

When I first joined the forum & I found out about jotronic working for H&W, I remember being put off by that.

Then I came to accept him as an employee of H&W not just a shill.

 

I guess the point is what if we were all paid cheerleaders for our doctors? What kind of forum would this turn into?

 

A battlefield basically!

 

We really don't need more hired guns by clinics to educate patients.

 

Most of us post advice for free.

[giants]

Heres the deal. This site may be slightly corrupted, so what? Bill, fllica ect... are smart people with a vast knowledge of hair loss. They know what works what doesn't and how to approach hair loss. They may advocate their respected ht specialist but they will also tell you their honest opinion on who is good and who is not. We trust them because they have a favorable reputation and they are open to questions, responses, and articles the community posts.

[nobuzz4me]

Grace,

 

You bring up some valid points and your piece is well written without the harsh tone. I take back any insults I layed on you before but your early posts included insults of your own about me so I responded.

 

I am really not sure your post is constructive. Without these "cheerleaders" and paid posters this forum would lose the educational value from these more experienced individuals.

 

Most of us who are non-paid like me are smart enough to know that a Jotronic for example, would have a biased point of view towards his doctors. We know that going in so that is fine. A little twist take on the FOX network slogan: All cheerleaders report, we'll decide.

 

I would rather hear from the experienced posters who have knowledge to share (like Janna, Jotronic and yes, you too Grace, than the newbies coming on asking the same old questions which they can easily find the answers to using the search function.

 

Now, I cannot put B-Spot in the same league as the others who are paid since he is not doing this full-time like Jotronic and he posted thousands of times before becoming employed. I just hope the candor of his posts continue and are not watered down due to the position. That is what made B-Spot so popular on this forum.

 

Grace, why don't you take a positive step and showcase some of the finer Bosley work, I see no reason why anyone would object.

 

Some of the best Doc's from Bosley eventually could leave after they get experience and decide to go out on their own. It happens in any many types of industries and the HT industry is no different.

 

Rather than cutting down other doc's, I would like to see who may be the up and comers. The Shapiros and Hassons will have to retire someday, who will replace them?

[Guest]

See Grace, All you had to do was show that pretty face & everyone plays nice!

 

I agree with nobuzz that you should post some photos of Bosley work.

 

We would welcome them, then of course we would dissect them and point out all of the flaws!

 

Just kidding!

[Rhodeman]

Grace,

 

If you truly mean to help, then posting pics of the work of the docs you consider to be as good as the coalition docs would be a start.

 

Keep in mind, consistent performance/results is the key, so a few or even a dozen results is no way indicative of the results one could expect from any particular "good" doc, although it is certainly a good way to weed out the bad ones pretty quickly.

 

I have had 2 procedures with 2 different docs. The first was a non-coalition doc who spewed all sorts of credentials,awards, etc. & did NOT do as good a job as I anticipated. These "credentials", awards, etc. were not from the folks who had procedures done.

 

My second procedure was done by a coalition doc. It has only been 4 months since my procedure, so the jury is still out, although the early growth seems to be good & I am expecting to have good results based upon what I've seen so far & based upon his past results. His credentials I researched online in a number of different patient & HT forums, similar to this one.

 

Bottom line....a HT is sort of like any product....you know what to expect from a coalition doc based upon previous performances/word of mouth;however,if the doc in question is an "unknown" quantity or the word of mouth of his place of business has been poor, then it's a crap shoot. Since the donor supply is limited, anybody taking a risk with an unknown doc after doing the research is being foolish.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the work of the Bosley docs that you mentioned.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Grace,

 

Like democracy, free speech and this forum are not always tidy. But everyone, whether recommended or not, have access to this open forum to share results, ideas and respond to comments they do not agree with.

 

This community and the physicians who are recommended on it operate in a transparent environment where our actions and results are often critiqued in open public view. These posts ??“ the good, the bad and the ugly ??“ are permanently left in our archive for any one to find by searching our "Find" feature.

 

I welcome your participation on this forum. This community is always looking for constructive criticism so we can continually improve. Such feedback has served to help up maintain the quality of the list of physicians recommended.

 

As you point out, no community or any physician is perfect. But in an industry/profession that has little or no regulation and a long history of hype, patients and clinics sharing and debating real information openly worldwide 24/7 has created a good measure of much needed accountability.

 

Grace, you claim to be good at digging online. But if what you presented is the worst dirt you can find out of well over 100,000 posts going back over five years then I'm delighted with our track record and will be recommending Dr. Shapiro and Dr. Hasson to the pope for canonization ?????? Now if you really have some time available, please going digging for dirt on the national chains. But do be sure to bring a convoy of those trucks they use for open pit mining.

 

It is openly stated on the Hair Transplant Network that the recommended physicians presented are not a definitive or perfect list .

 

Important Note - The hair restoration physicians recommended on this site are not a definitive list of all excellent hair restoration surgeons. Nor do we warranty or guaranty the results of any of the physicians presented on this site. As always, we encourage you to do your due diligence in evaluating these and all physicians.

 

But after ten years of researching leading clinics and traveling to them from Sao Paula, Brazil to Brussels, Belgium and from the tip of Miami to Vancouver, Canada I'm confident that the vast majority of the true gems are recommended on this community.

 

Your choice of photos demonstrates the very nature of your selective presentation. The Joe Tilman (Jotronic) we know and respect looks nothing like the goof ball you presented (see his blog for a realistic depiction), who was obviously just having some fun with the camera. Although I must admit I laughed at how grossly misrepresented and goofy the photo was.

 

But rather than working so hard to lampoon the members of this community in mug shot format, why not go digging for some impressive immediate post op Bosley patient photos? While we all enjoy a pretty face or a good laugh, we are much more interested in seeing actual surgical results. Surely with your skill at digging and photo editing you can find a few authorized promo shots to present.

 

Your accusation that this form is dominated by paid posters is simply on true. The members of this community and myself have been militantly against clinics covertly marketing their services on the forums. Those who have been caught doing this have been publicly removed.

 

Those who are compensated by clinics are required to disclaim this in all their posts. We work hard to run an above the board and accountable community. Your accusations that it is otherwise are as misleading as the typical hair transplant infomercial.

 

Onwards and Upwards, Pat

 

 

P.S. Does anyone have an old photo of Grace when she passed out on the couch in college and her friends put pepperoni slices over her eyes?

[Bill - Seemiller]

P.S. Does anyone have an old photo of Grace when she passed out on the couch in college and her friends put pepperoni slices over her eyes?

 

Pat,

 

I'm sure I can dig this up from other online public resources .

 

Bill

[thanatopsis_awry]

This will be my only post in this thread, and hopefully it will spur "Grace" to actually step up to the plate and produce for once. I will keep this as impersonal as possible, though when someone goes into hysterics w/ psychotic threats, and bizarre insults at state univeristies it isn't always easy, sorry... **shudder**

 

Where are the pictures, Grace? Most don't want to see your mug; we care about actual *results*, and the actual services that are being offered to prospective patients....do you still not understand this very simple, but singularly important point!?

 

With all the supremely satisfied Bosley patients sworn to secrecy (and all those supremely screwed patients mere "aberrations") it'd be nice to finally see that Bosley is no longer a fecal-stain in hair restoration industry & that young, prospective patients can safely adopt their services...to be clear:

 

IF GOING TO BOSLEY WASN'T THE EQUIVOLENT OF HAIR-RESTORATION-RUSSIAN-ROULETTE, AND IF SO MANY PEOPLE HAVEN'T RECEIVED SUB-STANDARD SURGERIES NO ONE WOULD BE AGAINST BOSLEY...THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO ALTER THIS PERCEIVED TRUTH! STOP CARRYING ON WITH THIS UNTACTFUL, PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE PERSONA AND ADDRESS THE CORE POINT!

 

I would actually love to be wrong on this one, so I'm really hoping to see the super-adequate results that you may put up; it would be nice to know that there are certain Bosley clinics that can consistently produce results tantamount to, say, Coalition docs...until then, its all cheap talk from this Bosley laborer. Please, prove otherwise.

[Guest wanthairs]

Hey Grace,

 

Why not read a thread from "dakota3", one of yoru happy clients.......It would be even better if you could also explain it publicly to all of us.

[Jotronic]

Grace,

 

Thank you for "Gracing" us with your presence. Sorry, couldn't resist. Look, if you're going to post a photo of me that makes me look like a loon, use this one instead. It's much more effective

 

 

 

Hey, which Bosley office do you work in? Just curious.

[MrJobi]

In my opinion, this network is very fair and just. The point of argument would be the differences of opinions. This of course is par for the course.

 

People need to see the benefit of this site and not bash every detail. If you look close enough at any post, the vets on here strongly encourage research by the individual in question.

 

If this was a dishonest website they would not.. This site has save a lot of people's "heads" including my own..

[Bill - Seemiller]

Joe LOL,

 

Every time i see the photo of you eating your hat I nearly fall off my chair laughing!

 

Bill

[Grace]

Good evening everyone, since I passively checked this forum today and felt obliged to reply to another thread just now I might as well briefly reply to this. Thank you for your comments. As some of you know I just returned from my vacation this past Sunday and I am swamped at work and at my condo (I'm repainting). I am not trying to "go in hiding". By this Sunday I will reply and address all of your comments.

 

You have my word.

 

-Grace

[NervousNelly]

Grace,

 

Still waiting on the official offer. I applaud you for sticking it out and argueing your points. You could be a great addition to this forum as it sounds like you have a decent knowledge of the HT industry and are one heck of a sleuth. We need a few willing to go toe to toe.

 

Sounds like many do want to see some photos from your doc as this is one of the only ways to validate statements of ability. I'm sure that you'll get around to things when you get the chance. Good luck with the condo.

 

NN