Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted March 25, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Bill, I don't recall *which* doc's have stated this, but they did NOT say it *suddenly* begins losing effectiveness at 10 years, rather it begins to tapers off. According to that link you put up..."According to his dermatologist, it is very rare for Propecia (finasteride) to suddenly stop working or lose effectiveness for treating hair loss." "OR LOSE EFFECTIVENESS FOR TREATING HAIR LOSS"... so according to this dermatologist the benefits of propecia can last indefinitely? I never hear clear answers about this. I have always been under the impression that most doc's on this site feel at BEST it *delays* one's eventual ultimate balding pattern. Which process *slowly* begins after (on average) ten years of taking propecia (?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member youngsuccess Posted March 25, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Doctors' responses to this seem to depend on the context in which the question is raised. For example, if a 20 year old asks, "Why can't I have my hairline restored; I'm on Propecia!", the response is usually something like the "can't delay the inevitable" spiel. However, if a 34 year old argues, "I don't want to take Propecia because it only delays the inevitable , then the response is usually more like "No it doesn't". There is like a skillion posts about this on BaldingBlog, and the editors over there give responses that contradict each other constantly. I do remember one quote from Rassman: "I've never seen anyone on finasteride go bald". Part of the answer may have something to do with how old the patient is at the time of treatment; maybe even more importantly, the extent of hairloss + genetic predisposition to a final pattern the patient has before he begins treatment. The other thing to consider is why do you always see, in combination with transplant post op pics, captions like "vertex/crown being treated with Propecia" if the results on average are that temporary? I mean, 18 months to see full results from a transplant: that's a year and a half. If fin. stops working in a few years then what's the point of "stabilizing" loss first? I wish there were some solid answers too. ------- All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice. View my My Hair Loss Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted March 25, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Yeah, from what I have seen posted on this forum doctors have varying opinions. I have always been under the impression that at BEST it delays one's final pattern. Im sure much of this is relative to the individual as well. Some people feel it has not benefited them at all, others are good responders, then others say they were good responders in the begining but then lost all they gained in but a short time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Sean1977 Posted March 25, 2008 Regular Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 I see the finasteride debate a little bit differently. Here is the analogy I came up with in my head to explain why this is.. Imagine a teeter-totter in your mind. On one side of the teeter-totter you have a full head of hair sitting, on the other side you have a bald head. Most people when they are young, have a full head of hair, and the teeter totter at this young age remains perfectly balanced, they are neither gaining hair or losing hair. As we age, the balding side begins to gain some weight with the help of DHT and probably a myriad of other hormones, and tips the scales on the side of balding; thus, we begin to lose some hair. The more the scale tips to the balding side, the faster we lose hair. Now introduce finasteride to the scale. Finasteride adds some counterweight to the other side of the teeter-totter, and in most people, either slows or stops hair loss. A few people even have regrowth. In my opinion, finasteride is able to rebalance the scale, and that is what stops the hairloss; in some people it perfectly balances the teeter-totter, and thus hair loss stops, in others it tips it further towards the hair side, and they see regrowth. For some people it doesn't tip it far enough, and it doesn't do as much for them, they might keep losing hair, but maybe at a slower rate than before. Using this analogy, it seems to reason that finasteride doesn't ever quit working. It simply only adds a set amount of counterweight to the scale. As we age, DHT and hormones can continue to increase and can cause the scales to slowly tip again towards the side of balding. Has finasteride failed?? No, it is still there providing the same counterweight, but may not be enough to stop hairloss at this point. In others, it may still be enough. However, one thing is for certain, once you remove the counterweight, the scales will tip even further towards the balding side, and hairloss will increase quickly. Maybe I put way too much thought into this, but since I've been researching all of this stuff over the past few years, I had to come up with something that made sense to me as I see a lot of conflicting information... Hope that helps someone.. Sean1977 4181 FUE -- 2/11/08 Dr Armani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 The finasteride conversation is certainly a worthy one. But may I suggest having this conversation by starting a new thread in the "hair loss drugs" forum? This conversation will be lost in the original context of the FUE debate. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Sean1977 Posted March 25, 2008 Regular Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hey guys.. it looks like Armani put up a new site. Appears that they FINALLY labeled each photo with the graft count and whether it was an FUE procedure or a Strip procedure. I have only looked at a couple of the pics, but I did find one FUE pic that was over 3000 grafts. I'm still looking through them... (promotional content removed) Sean1977 4181 FUE -- 2/11/08 Dr Armani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted March 25, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Looks like the same website to me; I'm not seeing any of the labels, just a lot of talk about neo-classical, Vitruvian-inspired design. Can you link me to the page where you are finding the labeled pics, or that one 3k+ you mention? The one labeled pic I've found was of a (relatively) small FUE session with a prior FUT. Ridiculously nice website, though; perhaps he gave his marketing director a bit too much ammo, but no doubt it is overwhelmingly posh and expansive. ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted March 25, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 with sixteen clinics world wide cranking out mega FUE's Im surprised there's not more pics of these mega fue's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Sean, You are rapidly appearing like a shill for Dr. Armani. Feel free to share your own personal experience and journey with us, but restrain from posting anymore additional links to his website. Our members are perfectly aware of the whereabouts of his website and can draw their own conclusions from this discussion and the photos they've seen. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted March 25, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Btw, I saw it stated multiple times on his website that Armani is performing a "non-surgical" procedure.....is that part and parcel with his always-disguised, revolutionary tools that he and his underlings wield? ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Sean1977 Posted March 25, 2008 Regular Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 If you go to the alvi armani webpage, you should be able to click on photo gallery. if you "click to enlarge" the photos, they blow up and give the graft and technique used for each patient. I wish they had done this while I was doing my research, because it made it very difficult to see how many grafts gave a certain result. Not sure what you mean by shill.. but I thought this thread was titled Armani FUE. I am a patient of Armani, just as many people on here are patient's of other docs. Am I excited about Armani's work?? Of course I am, I'm hoping that my results turn out as good as I expected them to be. That is how I found this chat board and this particular article last week; I was searching for Armani FUE pics on the web to try and find more grown out results. It seems that the only way not to be considered a "shill" here is to say something negative about Armani. I'm sorry I posted a link to the page, I didn't know that wasn't allowed; but people on here seemed eager to see the FUE pics. Sean1977 4181 FUE -- 2/11/08 Dr Armani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Sean1977 Posted March 25, 2008 Regular Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Originally posted by notgoing2gobald:with sixteen clinics world wide cranking out mega FUE's Im surprised there's not more pics of these mega fue's... notgoing2gobald.. I don't think there are 16 clinics doing work.. it looks like there are 3 that he travels to and from, the rest are for consultations... Sean1977 4181 FUE -- 2/11/08 Dr Armani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted March 25, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 I now see that some are labeled; I wish I could be more enthusiastic about Armani, for my sake and others', but at least from the extensive perusing I've done, I'm seeing...quite a few....that are either unlabeled, FUT, or small FUE. I have yet to come across a clear "FUE mega", let alone a handful, but I'll continue to look. I am, nonetheless, intriuged about this "non-surgical" procedure he is doing.... ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Sean, Read my message to you in the thread above the last one. As I said, I and other members are often skeptical of new posters coming to a controversial topic and posting a number of links and jumping to a physician's defense. You "appear" to be a consultant of sorts for Dr. Armani in which case I'd ask you disclose this in your signature. Understand that there have been problems with covert promoters in the past of certain physicians, so you'll have to try to understand my skepticism based on the above. If you are an excited patient only, I completely understand however, as I suggested, it would be nice if you start your own thread to share your experience and photos. As long as you are not here to promote Dr. Armani, you are welcome to contribute your experience and opinion, whether favorable or not. Thanks, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Sean1977 Posted March 25, 2008 Regular Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 I don't know what the heck they mean by "non-surgical", it was surgery and I can vouch for that. lol.. I just finished going through all of the photos, and they are all labeled except for one photo which opens a new window. They should have organized them better so you had a section that was just FUE pics and then a section that was Strip pics; but at least they have labels now.. I think there was at least 4 or 5 FUE pics that were over 4,000 grafts in there and several over 3,000... Sean1977 4181 FUE -- 2/11/08 Dr Armani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Sean1977 Posted March 25, 2008 Regular Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Bill, I guarantee you that I am not getting paid by Armani or anyone else (my current employer might be the exception, as I am at work while logged in here) to post any comments on here. If you would like, I can provide you my myspace account or other online profiles or references to prove that I am just a normal guy. If Dr Armani would like to add me to his payroll, then I would gladly add that to my signature below. Has Armani had covert "shills" on this forum? Sean1977 4181 FUE -- 2/11/08 Dr Armani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member M&M Posted March 25, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted March 25, 2008 Sean, First of all, thank you for joining the forum and for posting your experience at Armani. I think his hairlines speak volumes (literally)! However, I am concerned about many of his unsubstantiated claims (ie. 20,000 grafts, taking grafts from an unsafe zone when not necessary, lack of photographic evidence of these high-grafts, etc.). If he was pushing for the final 5,000 in a 20,000 graft session(s) and dipped into the 'unsafe' zone, that's one thing but to do it on the first 4,000 is a bit much. With regards to his new website, someone else brought up some much needed enhancements (higher res images, better more accurate and consistent lighting in before and after photos, and the ability to turn off the videos. Enough already with the music!!). I look forward to your updates. ___________________________ 1662 with Dr. Ron Shapiro - Spring 2006 1105 with Dr. Ron Shapiro - Fall 2009 M&M Weblog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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