Alvi Armani FUE

[TheEmperor]

OK, ive had a strip HT with a coalition doc, but I read this thread and the "locals" seem very confrontational.

 

I know the questions need to be answered, but I'd have to say that Alvi came off as more professional in this exchange.

 

While AA may be pushing the boundaries, im going to guess his product is not nearly as bad or as dangerous as everyone is saying.

 

I will say that ive got a healing strip scar that appears very wide and seems t have stretched in a short period of time. It is highly disconcernting and had I gone fue, I wouldnt be wearing a hat now. I might have traded overall density for a lack of linear scar, even if FUE yield is 20% less.

 

Sorry, ive just got to tell it how i see it.

[thanatopsis_awry]

How many months post-op are you -- hopefully you still have plenty of time to heal...? Anyways, nobody is saying someone shouldn't be able to do an FUE-mega where their yield will suck compared to strip and/or they will be overquoted....but they should be informed as to the realiy of the situation. I would not go that route; perhaps you would...nobody is any position to decide what route someone takes...however, EVERYONE should be granted the transparency to make a truly informed decision.

 

But the Armani machine puts out a tremendous amount of hype and often plain bull&$@(....difficult to not be confrontational when you see people being bamboozled and your very basic questions and inquiries go unanswered time and time and time and time again.

 

Also far as I can tell, Alvi was treated quite well until he decided to flee the scene with reasoning and timing that is....conspicuous, at best. I agree though that he shouldn't be treated in such a brash manner if he were to have remained an active member in the forum and grace us with his answers to our questions.

[djdennis]

To the Emporer, yes we may have been a little hard on him,but that is what this sites all about! Finding truth and sticking together to weed out the false. He may have been more diplomatic,but just look at our diplomacy and ask yourself do you believe everything you hear or read. Thank God we live in a country with freedom of speech and sometimes things in diplomacy can get nasty. This is the nature of the beast! We my friend Emporer are freedom fighters and we want truth!!! If any person comes to this site he will find truth in his brotheren and his brotheren will destroy the traders who perceive the truth for lies. Im thankful for this site and what we believe. I am sorry to hear about your scar and I hear you on going fue in your case. I would want the same also if my scar was to wide. Emporer who did your work? I hope you will tell so that another brotheren of our coaltion can make a wise choice for there future. Its about us not the docs unless they are also interested in us. Without us the docs are out of jobs (Right)

[notgoing2gobald]

I feel somewhat of an *obligation* to come across harsh when discussing Armani, as it is proportional to his savvy, marketing, and superfluous claims. I feel that he is preying on young men who are in a dire state of dillusion as a result of their hair loss and as such, are willing to believe anything anyone, especially, a *dr.* feeds them. Some of this:

 

#1 dense packing young 20 yr. olds hair line w/4K+ grafts down to their temples.

#2 telling them they have 15K donor.

#3 advertising FUE as 'non-surgical'

#4 claims of Mega FUE success w/-ZERO- results

 

Every other *good* doc on this site is completely transparent. If Armani has *such* great results w/his ground breaking MEGA FUE sessions, then where are they? Why doesn't he share them? Surely, he would be *proud* of them and they would boost his business (?)....

----FANCIFUL CLAIMS w/ZERO EVIDENCE----

Everyone who has read any of my posts knows Im a cheer leader for Hasson, and the only reason I became one was seeing all of his AMAZING transparent results: Bobman, Jotronic, Nicnitro, Shuffle, London Lad, Evolution, etc, etc,...

 

Where are ALL if *any* of Armanis Mega Fue?

As far as his ethics goes, even when he did strip:

what are these young kids going to do if they end up NW5+ and they have HALF of their available donor dense packed down to their eye-brows? They are going to look like circus freaks. They probably will not have enough donor hair left to even get an acceptable look. I feel we have an *obligation* to warn them.

 

Feller is both a world top doc AND a proponent of FUE, but by all accounts he claims that NOT everyone is a candidate for FUE as it takes a specific type of skin pigmentation (having to do w/collagen or such) to be able to extract FUE at a successful %; he also states that FUE leaves 10x the amount of *trauma* to the donor area as a result of all of the tiny extractions over the entirity of the donor area leaving it w/scarred skin and makes successive procedures less successful. He also states, that even if one is a good FUE candidate the yield is lower than that of strip.

 

Neither Armani nor any of his reps have ever directly addressed ANY of these claims or issues surrounding FUE; we should be able to expect the same from him that we would from any ethical and skilled surgeon who is TRULY successful at what they are doing. We don't. So, what are we to conclude seeing that someone of the caliber and transparency of Feller shows the pit falls and limitations of FUE; then Armani makes all of these claims w/absolutely ZERO proof (?!?!?)...

 

Emperor, I don't know your situation but perhaps your scar is just suffering from temporary shock loss and coupled w/redness it *appears* bigger than it is (?). Maybe not, I don't know. If in the event that your not happy w/your scar and it is *completely* unacceptable to you, you could FUE into it. Just a thought.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Originally posted by TheEmperor:

OK, ive had a strip HT with a coalition doc, but I read this thread and the "locals" seem very confrontational.

 

I know the questions need to be answered, but I'd have to say that Alvi came off as more professional in this exchange.

 

While AA may be pushing the boundaries, im going to guess his product is not nearly as bad or as dangerous as everyone is saying.

 

I will say that ive got a healing strip scar that appears very wide and seems t have stretched in a short period of time. It is highly disconcernting and had I gone fue, I wouldnt be wearing a hat now. I might have traded overall density for a lack of linear scar, even if FUE yield is 20% less.

 

Sorry, ive just got to tell it how i see it.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Well I screwed that up

Emporer Im sorry about your scar but like others have said maybe its just the shockloss or redness making it look wider. If you went to a coaltion doc Im sure hell revise it for you.

You say sorry you have to tell it like you see it.

Well this is what this is all about. Your right the questions need to be answered but SEEING some real results is what we want. You cant call it if if you cant see it.

20% less grafts to avoid the scar is a difficult choice unless your 40 and a nw3 .

Another problem is we have no idea what % is lost without photos .Could be 30 or 40.

This isnt about bashing fue because there are doctors on here that show excellent yeild.

In this thread its more about Adam coming on here and trying to change our mind about Armani without any pictures.

Just 5-10 pictures would erase alot of my concerns yet they refuse to post any on any site.

What does that tell you?

[Bill - Seemiller]

TheEmperor,

 

When did you have surgery? Did you share your experience and pictures on another thread? If not, I encourage you to do so including any recent pictures of the scar.

 

Scar stretching can be caused by a number of things and unfortunately, it's one of the risks going into surgery which may or may not be within the doctor's control. However, I encourage you to share your experience and photos on a new thread and also contact your physician who I am sure will stand by you. Be sure also to give the hair transplant a chance to mature (12 months) before making a final evaluation of the results and scar.

 

If there is anything I can do for you, send me a private message.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[TheEmperor]

Emporer who did your work? I hope you will tell so that another brotheren of our coaltion can make a wise choice for there future. QUOTE]

 

I have decided to wait 12 months before divulging any information. If I post in the doldrums I am more inclined to say something negative. Everything may turn out OK, if all the grafts grow and the scar becomes "pencil thin", but I have serious doubts at this point about the scar, and I have reservations about the growth.

 

The one thing I cna say thats relative to this thread is that removing all the hype from FUE, and taking its drawbacks into consideration FUE still has great real world advantages in post-op recovery that cannot be understated!

 

I went from short hair on sides and long on top, to the complete opposite, and I cant buzz the sides because of the scar and shockloss. There really are big gaps of missing hair on my head. Maybe Im one of the very unlucky ones, but I know if I ad gone FUE, I would have been able to buzz down and gone without a hat a couple months ago.

 

I have no idea if this is common but I can say I went to one of the best doctors. About half or more of the native hair was lost in the procedure as well and in its place i have many tiny dimples. I do not think I will look normal until 9-12 months and that is if all the grafts grow and all shocked hair returns AND the scars turns out to be much thinner than it appears.

 

Another thing about strip that I have not heard mentioned is that strip makes your bald spot larger as it pulls down on the rim! This was a shocker! I find the baldness was greater imediately following the procedure as the hair is pulled down an amount equal to the width of the strip. FUE would not do this!

 

Ive revised my thinking on the "many small FUE sessions" to stay ahead of MBP strategy. (Certainly many small strip sessions does not make sense.) It will obviously cost 3 times as much in the long run, but would effectively enable a young man to avoid the extended doldrum periods. If acceptable yield can be confirmed/reproduced, I think this would be a first line approach for young men without extensive loss and without a family history of extreme baldness.

 

I might add that its not clear to me that yield is substandard. I believe we are comparing apples and oranges. We are comparing the entire pool of strip results to a tiny pool of FUE results. I think the large number of stunning strip transformations is due to the large number of mega procedures done in this manner. Its still not clear to me that graft for graft, FUE yield is necessarily worse. Feller has been showing good FUE yield IMO, so we might assume AA has the technical skill to do it too. Regarding the issue of who is a good candidate, that pool may expand over time as well as doctors get better with removal techniques.

[notgoing2gobald]

Emperor,

 

how many months out are you? Im sure it can be a very difficult process to go through for *some*, while others tend to heal quickly; and this is precisely why I have not yet gone through with the procedure yet.

 

That being said, what do you mean by "little dimples" in the recipient area? I fully respect your reservations for not telling us who the doc was, but can you tell us the REST of the details of your surgery (i.e. NW level, age, grafts moved, how many months post op you are )? Perhaps you have stated this somewhere else but I haven't seen it. You lost a significant amount of native hair after your surgery? Were you a diffused thinner? While it's much easier for me to say this and is probably of little consolation, if you are only 2-5 months post op, then more than likely all of these conditions are temporary and you will be blooming soon and can report back with the good news...

[TheEmperor]

I dont buy the "more scarring" theory. Yes I guess in an absolute sense, there is more scarring, but also there is more tissue present.

 

After a few mega strip procedures, you may have 60% of your original tissue, of which only 2% of it is scarring.

 

After an equal emount of FUE grafts, you will have 100% of your original tissue, of which 40% of it contains scarring.

 

Quite frankly, if the scarring is not visible im not sure it is an issue. (I guess if overharvest a fue patient, you will see the scars, but overharvesting a strip patient you are going to be faced with a bigger problem -- hair too thin to cover a noticeable linear scar.)

 

The analogy that comes to mind is the Great Wall of China. you can see it from space with the naked eye, yet you can not make out any of the other millions of building that dot the landscape. Even though the wall is not particularly wide, something about the linear continuity that makes it possible to pick out.

[TheEmperor]

Im in the middle of the doldrums period and according to conventional wisdom, may expect to see growth soon.

 

 

The thousands of tiny dimples was also a shocker that they dont mention. The redness is mostly gone but the surface of my head looks rough and you can see that something was done if you are 2' away.

 

I have scrutinized the post op pics from other patients and I seee the tiny dimples on some of them, so I know this is not uncommon, its just not something that is advertized. If a hair follicle grows in the middle of EVERY dimple it will probably be a non-issue.

[notgoing2gobald]

You don't believe FELLER'S argument about scarring being an issue for FUE?...Are you kidding? Have you read it?

---YET YOU BELIEVE ARMANI (!?!?!?!?!??!?!)

----who has presented ZERO evidence (!?!?!??)

Have you read Feller's account of this?

The "SCARRING" Im refferring to for FUE

is NOT the moth eaten look. The scarring is w/respect to the ability to successfully extract grafts from the donor area...

An ENTIRELY different issue than that of the "moth eaten" look...

This will effect the total amount of grafts one can successfully have...

---I wish I could find the thread that Feller explained this...Bill? CAN YOU FIND IT???

He explains the SCAR tissue for FUE is an issue for extracting more grafts and the success of extracting these grafts becomes LOWER...

 

NOT talking about the MOTH EATEN look here, just talking about the SUCCESS of actually obtaining more grafts......

[TheEmperor]

This is no more and no less believeable than the statement that FUE produces lower yield -- without evidence to support it. We see several good FUE results but are quick to claim that they are abnormal. One physician (with how much of a sample size?) is claiming that yield gets worse with further extraction down the road. Thats not evidence IMO. Not saying its not true, but the verdict is out on that one. Keep in mind you can venture farther towards the edges of the safe zone with FUE, so perhaps its a wash.

 

I'm not an Armani Cheerleader and I have some ethical issues with his practice, but I belive the negativity towards him has taken on a life of its own and at least partly reflects a desire to maintain the status quo.

 

Good luck in your research.

[notgoing2gobald]

Below is the thread in which Feller's transparency regarding the limitations of FUE when compared to strip is *very* clear, and has persuaded me that MOST patients would be better served w/strip:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/346...861/m/3701081643/p/2

 

On pg2 Feller states the following:

""Trauma" is another confusing term when applied to FUE, but yes, a larger area of skin will be traumatized and forced to reorganize itself after an FUE "insult". When you tally up the total surface of area of skin affected by the two procedures, FUE will total 10 times as much "trauma" as a comparable sized strip surgery. While this is not so much of a problem at the time of the FUE, it becomes a considerable issue only a few months after the fact because the skin will tend to harden due to the deposition of scar tissue around each hole. When these rings of scar tissue fan out, they ultimately coalese together to form a "sheet of scaring". Further FUE in skin like this is very difficult and the number of successful attempts drops.

 

In other words, the fewer times you have to cut the skin, the better. This axiom serves the whole of the surgical field, not just FUE. It's also common sense.

 

I agree that it is best to "strip" out a patient before moving to FUE."

---Dr. Feller

 

It's pretty clear that the "scarring" he is referring to is not the "moth eaten" look...

So it's really not about viewing THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA FROM SPACE....

 

I hope your ht turns out GREAT Emperor!

We will have to agree to disagree regarding FUE though!

[TheEmperor]

HT55,

 

I dont think you have had a HT.

 

That guy does not have to deal with a wide (red) strip scar or shock loss. He could buzz everything down to a #2 if he wanted and it would look natural (with the exception of the hairline which looks too low to me.)

 

Week for week, his growth is better than mine so far. I think he is growing well for 4 months!

 

 

I went with strip because of Drs reputation, his results, and the cost of FUE is prohibitive. I did not anticipate having to contend with a scar or shock loss. Like I said, we'll just have to see how things turn out. I'm sceptical but I also know Im in the doldrums so im not completely objective at this point.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Good discussion.

 

The debate over FUE will continue for some time until some time until (and if) it starts becoming more commonplace.

 

I do agree that there is more hype about FUE megasessions and phenominal hair growth yield than actual results posted online.

 

In addition, the majority of reputable hair transplant physicians agree that follicle transection rate is higher due to the extra pulling, twisting, and squeezing forces put on the grafts at extraction.

 

It should also be noted (and I think that this is often NOT considered or discussed among potential patients) that more grafts are often extracted then transplanted. If a physician takes the time to examine each extracted graft under a microscrope after extraction, it might be found that the graft is damaged before placement. Perhaps that will increase the over all hair growth yield of the transplanted hairs but NOT overall. Valuable grafts are still wasted if they are extracted damaged and not transplanted.

 

But until I see more evidence of consistent quality with FUE megasessions, I will remain skeptical.

 

Bill

[notgoing2gobald]

Ah, yes. The debate shall continue for some time until some time until (and if) starts of time continue and this until some time and then it starts until this (again) some time...

[thanatopsis_awry]

I'd just like to know what candidates Armani & Co. *don't* perform FUE-megas on....or, what *revolutionary* tool he has created which has completely evaded the minds -- and ears -- of brilliant hair surgeons everywhere.....most of whom represent the antithesis of the "status quo"....

 

And if the latter is true, I'd like to know why such a man and such an operation can't create a website that showcases the work that they do, and why they stumble ad nauseum in posting clear, grown out pictures....

 

Personally, I demand precise answers to the aformentioned before I risk my precious follicles, time, and money; ethics surrounding him densepacking kids is really the least of my concerns (whether that is sympotmatic is another issue....).

[Bill - Seemiller]

Personally, I demand precise answers to the aformentioned before I risk my precious follicles, time, and money

 

I couldn't agree more. A clinic should fully disclose to their patients their techniques, practices, tools, all potential benefits, risks, etc. to their patients about any given procedure.

 

Transparency is key which is what makes this community so vital.

 

Bill

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by HT55:

 

I have had 3 HT's over the past 10 years, 2K grafts total. I can shave my Trico to a #2 without it being noticed. At the moment I could use about 750 in my hairline.

 

 

I thought we were talking about mega sessions. I've got over 2x as many grafts as you in one session, but probably because I am older and more advanced NW. Consider that the process of having 4000 grafts moved at once is a bit more arduous than having 700 moved.

 

 

Just because you have had a bad HT (so far) don't try to say I don't know what I'm talking about or haven't been through this several times.

 

I dont see a connection between my being in the doldrums and disagreeing with you. I did not say my HT was bad, I have expressed some concerns about it and am waiting to reserve judgement. The reason I posted in this thread was because while FUE may not be suitable for everyone, it would have eliminated the doldrums I am experiencing, specifically shock loss on the sides and a red scar -- together which require me to have my hair much longer on the sides. I do not think the doctor did anything wrong and there is evidence tat this does not happen to many people, its just that I did not anticipate this. Other people researching the process may not anticipate it either.

 

You talked about doldrums not being there with FUE and I pointed you to a guy who will be going through doldrums until at least month 6 if he is LUCKY.

 

 

He can buzz his head and nothing will be visible in the donor site. I agree his hairline looks odd relative to his native hair, but thats another issue that could also be solved by shaving down until everything grows out. I wish him the best even though he chose FUE. I think a low hairline like that demands higher density.

 

If you look at his pre op pic I would say he definitely has shock loss since he has less hair 4 months post op than Before surgery.

 

I'm talking about shock in the donor. Donor shock loss is a double whammy. Youve got a healing strip scar to cover and because the hair around it is missing, there is nothing to cover it with. I am not aware of any FUE cases causing donor shock, or if it does it is so spread out that its not noticable. Besides there is no linear scar to hide.

 

If you chose strip over FUE because of money you obviously were not ready to play the HT game !

 

I would still make the same decision today. I disqualified FUE because of the "yield question". If I had really dnoe my research I would have gotten a FOX test to at least see if it was an option. If I was FOX favorable and knew I was going to have to contend with donor shock, I might have given FUE consideration. FUE would probably not have made sense for me because I am an older NW5. However, I am revising my belief about its applicabilty in younger patients who are not progressesd and whose family history is favorable. My point is that even if FUE's yield is 20% less, this may be a non-issue if young patients are having small sessions to stay ahead of loss. Ive seen these young guys who have their hairlines bolstered, and they are out in public living their lives 3 weeks after the surgery without a hat.

 

 

Also the guy in the pic got his FUE with an Armani associte Dr Mcmillan for ~ $5 graft so he paid about the same as you did for strip.

 

I'm pretty sure you havent seen my checkbook nor do you know the doctor I chose.

 

Good luck in your growing.

 

Thank you.

[Sean1977]

Hey guys, I'm new here, but have been researching these sites for over a year and a half. I decided to join and post after reading this thread.

 

I'm not sure why Armani's people don't post their FUE pics for everyone to see. While I was researching with them they supplied me several examples of grown out FUE results. I will post the ones I have below so you guys can see them.

 

After a year and a half of research, I decided to go with Armani for my HT and had it done early last month. I received 4,181 grafts via FUE in Beverly Hills, and it took about 13 hours. (Those hours sucked too, but it's kind of like child birth I think, after a few days you forget how bad it was) 4000 sounded like a lot to me to after the initial consultation, so I did consultations with Hasson $ Wong as well, and they recommended 3800.

 

I did have a little bit of shockloss in the recipient area; I would estimate around 10%, but nothing too bad. The donor area healed quite well and was almost impossible to see after 2 weeks. I returned to work 3 weeks after surgery and no one has noticed anything. Once I came back, I began using a little bit of cover up makeup to hide the obvious new hairline that the residual redness left. Everyone assumed that I had gotten a little bit of a sunburn on my LA "vacation".

 

I only felt comfortable going through with the operation because of my response to meds, and even then, it took a lot of research to be sure. I have been on meds for 3 years solid now and have been an excellent responder, especially to rogaine. My mom and coworkers began asking me what I was doing to my hair after 2 1/2 weeks of use of rogaine. Within 3 or 4 months, my hair had almost tripled in thickness, and my hairline moved back down closer to it's originaly location. I have even noticed new hairs popping up in my hairline as recently as the last few months. If it hadn't been for this good response, I don't think I would have gone through with the procedure.

 

Anyways, here are some of the pics I was sent prior to my procedure:

[Sean1977]

Here's another..

[Sean1977]

Another..

[Sean1977]

This guy has his own website, had some previous work but ended up doing 3K FUE with Armani over a year ago.

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/galleryview.cfm?id=gac201|gallery1.cfm

 

 

This guy had 2500 FUE and is an Armani Rep. Pics are kind of dark, but I think he says he will email bigger pics upon request.

 

http://fue2500.blogspot.com/

 

 

This kid had 2500 FUE performed. I post a few of his pics in the post above, but this is his full website with several pics.

 

http://quest4hair.blogspot.com/

 

I think I knew of some other Armani FUE pic websites and will post them here if I can find them.

[notgoing2gobald]

Sean,

EDIT-----

Thanks for sharing the pics. I think what *all* of us are really after though are the MEGA FUE pics. We are all well aware of Armani's smaller session sizes. I know your not responsible for the quality of the pictures, but I gotta say two of those links have some of the shittiest quality (lighting) of ht pics I have ever seen.

 

I don't know why the guy w/the 3K is literally *in the dark* on his 14 month photo (?). The guy below him is even worse! I love the one pic where he says he was "trying to improve the lighting;" what was he using a fucking candle?

 

I would have to say that if I were going to go to *any* doc, I would want to see a bunch of clear shots of previous patients who had at least as many grafts that they were planning on moving on me; especially w/something as controversial as Armani's Mega FUE..

 

Didn't Armani send you *any* pics of patients who had at *least* 4K, or even better yet at least 5K? If you have any Im sure we would all love to see them...