is this ethical?

[Guest josh - b]

hi everyone,

Someone here recently posted asking about a dr mcmillian from dr armanis clinic.

Here is an example of his work posted by a 22 y.o on another site today.

I would seriously question the ethics of this procedure.

Maybe i'm wrong to. What do the veterans here think?

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=58&threadid=74139

[Guest josh - b]

hi everyone,

Someone here recently posted asking about a dr mcmillian from dr armanis clinic.

Here is an example of his work posted by a 22 y.o on another site today.

I would seriously question the ethics of this procedure.

Maybe i'm wrong to. What do the veterans here think?

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=58&threadid=74139

[NervousNelly]

I think that you know my answer to this.

 

NN

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Mine 2

[Guest josh - b]

thats what i thought.

Theres going to be a lot of middle aged men in years to come with very odd looking hair patterns unless hair cloning becomes a viable solution.

[MrJobi]

I hope this guy stabilied his hairloss and it doesnt progress further.

 

If it does, he may be pretty screwed in about 10 years or so ..

 

This is the difference between a short term fix and a long term approach.

[chucky]

his hairline is too low and as for the parts not transplanted mainly on the right temple(wtf)

once his hair grows he will be straight back having these areas filled when it should have already been done

[bverotti]

This looks almost like a female hairline to me, sooo low.

[M&M]

There are several parts that concern me about this patient and this post. He admits several times that he (the patient) wanted a more conservative hairline, but the doctor went ahead and made it lower. This is a horrible rookie doctor mistake. Even when I went to Bosley, they were at least careful enough not to bring my hairline down at all.

 

But it gets worse. There is a 'bald' spot (behind where the hairline was thickly transplanted and in front of where native hair exists) on one of the temples that is quite large. He'll now *have* to come in for a 2nd HT to get this fixed.

 

Okay, so the hairline is lower than he wanted and he also has a bald spot behind it... Anything else go wrong? Yes. He wanted 70% density in the front, but got 80%. Again, the Doctor didn't listen to him.

 

And it still gets worse.

 

The patient says it was a 'bit of bad luck' as when the hairline was being created, he was heavily sedated and dosed off. What? Shouldn't the hairline be the first thing discussed and planned between patient and doctor long before any meds or surgery has commenced?

 

Overall, it just seems that the doctor did what he wanted to have a nice 'before & after' photo vs. what the patient wanted or should have short or long-term.

 

It'll be interesting to see if Dr. Armani, Dr. McMillian or Shane come back with any commentary / defense.

[bverotti]

Indeed, M and M

IMHO start out with a conservative hairline aproach.

It is easy to lower the hairline if desired, the opposite is much more difficult.

[NervousNelly]

bverotti,

 

You got it. It really scares me when I see people going too low with the hairlines. It is bad enough for surgeons to fix old school plugs that were too low, but now try and move 2500 densepacked fu. That could be a nightmare and very expensive.

 

We do a pretty good job on this forum of warning about that but it really needs to be stressed a lot more I believe. Also, a person can achieve a hell of a lot more density by just going 1 cm higher in the hairline. Now for the short term they might think that they made a mistake but when you are fifty and have dense hair still and an appropriate hairline for your age--this is killer.

[Perfect Fit]

I had a consult with Armani in London recently. He had three post-op guys in the room as "models". I have never seen so much hair in my life! They were all mid 20's in age and had what can only be described as full and thick heads of hair. How? Well they had been receding from the front and armani had performed an excellent job in creating a new hairline plus they were on meds to stop any crown loss. They looked great but surely at some point the crown will start thinning also. One point not mentioned on this post is that this was an all-FUE procedure ie not FUSS. Will be interesting to see the grown-out results..

[MrJobi]

I am with Nelly on this one..

 

Being conservative is always the way to go . You can always go lower BUT not higher. This is key as your hairloss progresses. It can really be a problem but let's hope this guy doesnt lose anymore hair.

[gazzasgoin2]

Exactly, the biggest concern for me is the blatant disregard for the guys request to have a conservative hairline.

 

His reasons for this were two fold in that the patient recognised he is still young and is mindful of future loss. Secondly, he does not have the finances for anymore grafts. Now he is stuck with a very low hairline that will already have gaps behind it requiring additional cost to fix in the near future.

 

The Armani clinic seem to be very unflexible in their approach to hairline placement and always opt for a low closed hairline.

 

It is a shame they are not willing to listen to patients and when requested adopt a more conservative approach as their work is technically very good.

[NervousNelly]

It seems to me like they are all about the short term. Lets face it. What age group is the primary target? Its the 20 somethings that are starting to lose their youth and willing to give their left nut to have their hair back. The marketing monster Armani knows this. Therefore he showcases the young patients that he densepacks the hell out of the frontal region that combined with their native hair they look golden. This drives the marketing further and further. By the time their is a lot of upset young guys that have a wall of hair only, he is sailing in the Mediterranean.

 

He has even taken his idea further by promoting the nonsurgery (FUE) as he calls it. Again, he directs his marketing to those that want the youth and ability to shave the donor area. And guess what, he can do all this while charging a premium over strip surgery.

 

Now it will again be years later before there is a lot of guys with a wall of hair and a moth eaten donor that would like to talk to him. Again, he'll be yachting in the Mediterranean by then.

 

If you have little conscience its a good gig. Now in saying all that, I also believe that he does it to avoid the unsatisfied client. How many guys will immediately complain--"hey doc, my hairline looks too dense and youthful. Hey I hate looking like I'm 18 again. Hey, you blended it too well with my native hair. Hey, I hate having several options for hair styles. It sucks getting laid nightly" You get what I am saying--not going to happen. Easy stuff. No complaints. By the time the complaints start he's made millions.

[wylie]

Originally posted by M&M:

There are several parts that concern me about this patient and this post. He admits several times that he (the patient) wanted a more conservative hairline, but the doctor went ahead and made it lower. This is a horrible rookie doctor mistake.

 

 

I agree with all your other comments, but the same thought immediately jumped out at me when I read his thoughts.

 

There can be no explanation for that other than lack of doctor skill or ethics.

 

He got packed with grafts all in front and down low and he is only 24. I sure hope he doesnt lose much more hair.

[chucky]

does anyone know how his other offices operate.Are they franchises which trade under his name but are run totally independant after they have purchased the franchise from armani,or does he own/part own them and takes a share of the profits from each office.ching ching$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[wylie]

I'll be the first to admit I never heard of Armani two weeks ago, but I have heard alot about him since then. I've learned he markets agressively (red flag, thats only my opinion) he does huge sessions (often frontal and low) consistently on young people (red flag) charges higher prices on average for FUE (oh well, if its worth it) and consistently leaves people MORE likely to need another HT in their future (see ya)

 

Even if your work is consistently spectacular and your results worthy of inclusion in the coalition the red flags concerning his ethics leave me very wary of this operation.

 

And you can still be a great physician but operate without your patients best interests in mind. Trust is crucial in considering a HT doctor. This other DR. McMillan sounds like he has been trained to do what Armani does himself.

 

That sounds like lack of ethics by design.

[TheHairLossCure]

Some people really think that, since transplants are elective surgeries, you should give the patient what they want. You should, within reason. But let's face it - it is pretty darn rare that a 22-year old is going to be a great candidate for surgery.

[gazzasgoin2]

Only very rarely can such dense packing be appropriate, yet it is typical of all Armani procedures. Having looked at that post op picture again I truly think it is scandalous and I am surprised it has not caused more of a stir on the other site.

 

Chucky,

 

Armani has operated out if his Toronto clinic for many years. He has recently opened 2 additional clinics in Dubai and LA which he also personally carries out procedures on certain days. I believe he has trained associate doctors including Dr McMillian who also carry out surgery along with large team of technicians to help with FUE graft extractions.

 

I believe he will be opening another facility in London next year. As his locations expand there has to be a risk that the quality is diluted. Dr. Armani cannot be present for every surgery and little is known about the associate doctor's experience so it will be interesting to see how it develops.

[L'Anonyme]

If he's already in need of a transplant at 22, he will surely lose more hair. It also needs to be said again that hairloss does not stabilize in your 20s. Just because Propecia has worked for a few years does not mean that it will do so for decades, and that goes for the 30 and up crowd as well. But if you've ever heard the typical Armani patient speak or write, you know that you're dealing with a highly impressionable demographic that parrots whatever the clinic has to say about things. Some of these guys have apparently never taken a science or critical thinking course in their lives. At least Armani has finally released an actual name of one of these other doctors. It's taken years of badgering by posters for them even to disclose that, but in my opinion a chain full of this kind of work will sink the whole enterprise fast. There's only so much damage control and promising of free touch-ups that Shane can do in a day....

[Bill - Seemiller]

gazza,

 

I don't agree that dense packing is only rarely appropriate, I can think of many cases where it is common and ethical...BUT on a young person like this - I agree with you!

 

I have a feeling in the coming years, there will be many angry Armani hair transplant patients.

 

Bill

[gazzasgoin2]

Bill, I agree. What I meant was producing such a low, dense packed hair line on a 22 year old who already shows significant signs of hair loss.

 

Also the other point I was trying to make is that almost ALL Armani cases involve dense packed hairlines regardless of whether a more conservative approach would benefit the patient over the longer term.

[Bill - Seemiller]

gazza,

 

We are on the same page and I agree.

 

Bill

[MrJobi]

This is why it is essential a patient does his/her research. There aremany docs who will perform surgeries which may not be in the best long term interest for you..

 

it's your head so it's your ass!