Dr Bradley Limmer - San Antonio

[Luis]

Has anyone had any experience or know anyone who has with Dr Bradley Limmer. I have been visiting his clinic, but honestly, I have no one else to compare it too, so I really don't know what to expect.

 

If anyone can give me any reference on Dr Limmer or anyone else in the San Antonio or Tampa area, let me know. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanx

[Luis]

Has anyone had any experience or know anyone who has with Dr Bradley Limmer. I have been visiting his clinic, but honestly, I have no one else to compare it too, so I really don't know what to expect.

 

If anyone can give me any reference on Dr Limmer or anyone else in the San Antonio or Tampa area, let me know. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanx

[arfy]

As far as I know:

 

Dr Limmer's staff uses microscopes to dissect the donor strip, and he uses the 'ultra refined FU transplant approach' (see this article. )

 

Dr Limmer supposedly relies heavily on his staff to do the procedure, this keeps costs down however I personally would want more hands on attention from the doctor himself.

 

He is not a bad choice, however it sounds like you should spend some time reading up on transplants, learning the pros and cons, what are the limitations etc. Don't even decide that you want a hair transplant until you've learned a lot more. There are a lot of misconceptions about what they can and cannot do.

 

The more you learn, the better your odds that you won't be disappointed.

 

In general, I recommend that you avoid any of the big franchises. They DON'T use the "best" techniques that you read about in that link I gave you.

[spoon]

I am not convinced it's fair to claim the rationale for relying heavily on staff is cost.

 

Dr. Limmer would be there throughout the surgery, so if anything, more nurses and technicians would increase costs...?

 

Anyway, agreed that research is the way to go, and Luis I think you should have a good look at the work of the doctor, through pictures and patients willing to meet.

[Luis]

First off, thankyou Spoon and Arfy very much for you help and advice.

 

Could you suggests any websites that can help me in research. The biggest thing I found was this Hair Restoration Network where I found Dr Limmer and Dr Paul Rose in my hometown. Just noticed that Dr Limmer was a little less expensive. But I think I shouldn't only concentrate on the price.

 

Thanks again

[arfy]

I am not convinced it's fair to claim the rationale for relying heavily on staff is cost.

 

Um well then what is the rationale? At most clinics the doctor creates the recipient sites (where the grafts are placed) and at some clinics the doctor is there placing grafts along with his staff.

 

My understanding is that at the Limmer clinic, the "techs" actually do everything except take out the donor strip and sew up the donor area.

 

So what do you suppose the rationale for that is?

 

Sometimes I hear people say "well the techs can do "____" (whatever task) better than the doctor can, because they do it all day long". That's a sorry excuse. Maybe they can train some monkeys to do it then, if it doesn't matter who puts the grafts in? (sorry, not directing this at you, just blowing off some hot air abouit something that bugs me).

 

In my experience, the more the doctor is THERE working on me directly, the better my experience as a patient is, and the better it seems to turn out later. Just like any other job, I think employees tend to be "on their game" more, when the "boss" is watching.

 

For Luis, what I recommend is that you spend time reading the forums here, go back through the archives. Read everything on the home page. Use the Search function to look up discussions on topics that you don't understand. It's "homework" but it will pay off if you are willing to spend a little time reading and learning. Keep asking questions too.

[spoon]

Originally posted by arfy:

I am not convinced it's fair to claim the rationale for relying heavily on staff is cost.

Um well then what is the rationale?

Maybe the rationale is what you say below, that he has faith in his staff.

 

Sometimes I hear people say "well the techs can do "____" (whatever task) better than the doctor can, because they do it all day long". That's a sorry excuse. Maybe they can train some monkeys to do it then, if it doesn't matter who puts the grafts in?

Completely illogical, and you are totally insulting the surgical teams. Of course matters who's putting the grafts in, and that's why you put your faith in the doctor and his or her judgement to pick the surgical team. Dissection of grafts is easily as important for a successful transplant, but the doctor isn't doing that.

In my experience, the more the doctor is THERE working on me directly, the better my experience as a patient is, and the better it seems to turn out later. Just like any other job, I think employees tend to be "on their game" more, when the "boss" is watching.

 

And in my experience, Dr. Limmer's approach can work extremely well, depending on who the doctor is and who the rest of the team are. You are making blanket statements that are very unfair. What would you rather have, a bad doctor working on you or Dr. Limmer's surgical team under his supervision? I'll take the latter every day of the week.

[buddyebsen]

What would you rather have, a bad doctor working on you or Dr. Limmer's surgical team under his supervision? I'll take the latter every day of the week.

 

 

That is not the only choice. You can have a great doctor that makes the incisions, too.

[Luis]

You're right Arfy. I already delayed my next visit to the clinic just so I can read and study more in this forum. My biggest decision is to decide if to take the chance of seeing what a HT will do for me, or just stay shaving my head (which isn't the worst thing in the world)

 

But I will do my homework, thanx to you and everyone who has replied to my questions.

[Robert_]

Luis, I strongly recommend that you speak directly to Dr. Bradley Limmer about your concerns that have been raised in this thread. While the posters may certainly be looking out for your benefit, I dont believe that everything said in this thread is true.

 

Dr. Bradley Limmer is the son of Dr. Bobby Limmer, a.k.a. the "Godfather of Follicular-Unit Grafting." Dr. Bobby Limmer is called this because in the late 1980's he pioneered the use of the binocular microscope in preparing very refined follicular unit grafts.

 

Dr. Bobby and Dr. Bradley Limmer share their clinic in San Antonio, Texas. They are both highly reverred in the field of surgical hair restoration and are both highly recommended by the Hair Transplant Network.com as Coalition physicians.

 

While I certainly advocate you making the most informed decision you can make, taking statements like this:

 

Dr Limmer supposedly relies heavily on his staff to do the procedure, this keeps costs down however I personally would want more hands on attention from the doctor himself.

 

as fact can be incredibly misleading. Arfy has presented no evidence to back this up. Arfy, if you have had a personal experience with Dr. Limmer where you witnessed this, I would like to hear about it, but I highly doubt that you did. It sounds like you are passing off anectodal accounts as fact.

 

-Robert

[arfy]

maybe you can contact the clinic and ask who makes the recipient sites in Dr Limmer's clinic? I was told that Dr Limmer leaves that to his staff. If that has changed then please correct me. However I am just a patient, I am not running a website that keeps track of what every individual doctor does.

 

I certainly don't want to mislead anybody. However if Dr Limmer is not creating the recipient sites or is only creating some recipient sites, then it's fair to mention that, and let people decide if it matters to them or not. It's fair to want to understand your doctor's philosophy. I was relating information from 2 or 3 years ago, perhaps Dr Limmer does it differently. I also may not be making the correct distinction between what Bobby Limmer does, and what Brad Limmer does. My sincere apologies if I spread misinformation. Maybe Luis can call the clinic and post his findings?

 

This is what I said

I personally would want more hands on attention from the doctor himself.

I do think hands on time with the doctor is important, and I do think it has made a difference for me when the doctor was in the room.

[Robert_]

Of course hands-on time from the physician is important and you know that I am not discounting that position and never would. Your quote:

 

I personally would want more hands on attention from the doctor himself.

 

is certainly misleading because it seems to imply that Dr. Bradley Limmer does not devote ample time during the procedure to the patient. This is something that I know is false and that you have assumed to be true from something you heard "2 or 3 years ago." You figured that it would be ok to pass it along as fact. It is not ok.

 

This website is very wholeheartedly dedicated to bringing the hair loss sufferer accurate information on hair restoration physicians. If you would like to read up on that dedication a little further, Arfy, feel free to keep up with Pat's progress here.

 

-Robert

[arfy]

The issue is whether or not Bradley Limmer makes the recipient sites himself or not. If he does then I apologize.

 

If he doesn't then I don't apologize. The doctor should do as much of the procedure as possible, including placing grafts. The doctor should most certainly be the one creating the recipient sites (the "artistry" part of a hair transplant). That doesn't happen at some clinics. I may be confusing what Bobby and Bradley Limmer do (with each other), if that is the case then I apologize profusely.

 

More clarification is needed.

[Robert_]

"The issue is whether or not Bradley Limmer makes the recipient sites himself or not. If he does then I apologize."

 

"If he doesn't then I don't apologize. The doctor should do as much of the procedure as possible, including placing grafts. The doctor should most certainly be the one creating the recipient sites (the "artistry" part of a hair transplant). That doesn't happen at some clinics. I may be confusing what Bobby and Bradley Limmer do (with each other), if that is the case then I apologize profusely."

 

"More clarification is needed."

 

 

 

No, the issue now is that you assumed that what you had heard was true and you are now passing it off as truth to at least one other forum member that believed it to be true. That, Arfy is called a lie. You lied and now you are trying to backpeddle out of it by placing the emphasis on a very well-respected physician that performs outstanding work.

 

Arfy, you don't even know which physician it is you are saying doesn't create his own incisions!!!

 

I am locking this thread because it serves absolutely no purpose anymore. This is absolutely your last warning on this or any other issue.

 

-Robert

[Robert_]

I locked this thread yesterday because the content was quickly devolving into nothing more than an argument. I do not condone petty arguing on the forums and to be an active participant would make me out to be nothing more than a hypocryte.

 

However, I called Arfy a liar and did not allow him a venue to respond and that is wrong. For that, I apologize. As a very big fan of constructive debate, I should have known better.

 

I stand by my statement, however.

 

I never challenged the statement that Arfy made that Dr. Limmer relies on his staff. It is true that Dr. Limmer does not make all of his own incisions. This is true of several leading hair restoration physicians that consistently produce beautiful results.

 

My problem with Arfy's statement is that he did not rely on first-hand accounts to make this claim. He made the claim as though it were fact from something he heard "two or three years ago."

 

I believe that this is wrong. I would have called Arfy or anyone else on this issue no matter what criteria it pertained to. Whether the discussion was about a doctor, a medication, or anything else a qualifier such "in my opinion..." would have been much more appropriate.

 

-Robert

[arfy]

It is true that Dr. Limmer does not make all of his own incisions. This is true of several leading hair restoration physicians that consistently produce beautiful results.

 

Oh Really????

 

Please do share which OTHER doctors let their techs create the recipient sites? Do spill the beans!!! Patients should know exactly which doctors hand over the reigns and let someone else design the graft patterns and placement. Deciding the angle, direction and patterns of where the grafts are placed is probably the single most important part of the surgery, so lets have full disclosure. Which other doctors let a Tech make the recipient sites, besides Brad and Bobby Limmer???

 

I TRIED to be diplomatic in this post by using language like "I believe..." and "My understanding is..." as a way to invite people to do their own research. ROBERT took this as a sign of weakness or indecison on my part and jumped down my throat, calling me a liar.

 

Okay Robert. What did I lie about?

 

As far as your dumb requirement of "no hearsay" well I have had surgery with 5 different doctors. However I realize that it is physically impossible for me to personally have surgery with every single doctor, watch every single doctor operate, or meet and interview every single doctor. So yes I do rely on hearsay, repeating what other real-life patients said. BOTH LIMMERS work out of the SAME OFFICE and according to my research that I've done by reading THIS WEBSITE both have their techs use the Stick & Place method. This means the tech does everything except remove the donor strip and sew up the gap. The tech creates the recipient site and then sticks the graft into it. Dr. Limmer will probably be sticking and placing too, however he gives his techs much more important role in the surgery. In other clinics the creation of the recipient sites is considered the "artistic" part of the transplant. A tech is not a Nurse, a Tech is usually someone who just has a certificate from a Trade School or a Community College.

 

Do you REALLY want "JOE TECH" doing the artistic part of your hair transplant?

 

Now in the future I will try to be a little more blunt, so that Robert doesn't think I am wishy-washy about the facts, and accuse me of lying.

 

Would I recommend Dr Limmer (Brad OR Bobby)? Neither is a "bad" choice however in my opinion you can do better, and I personally would prefer more hands-on time with an actual doctor, not someone who went to Trade School.

 

When I do the research and pick a doctor, I want the doctor I picked to do the important part of my surgery. NOT an assistant!!!

[Robert_]

I'm not going to be led into an argument. I explained the reason behind my statement above. I reopened the thread so you could have your say to be as fair as I possibly can. It's obvious that you are going to continue on your tirade no matter how accomodating I am to your antics and melodrama. Tell me, Arfy, are you going to call me bad names and curse me out on the public forums too or are you going to just leave that to the repeated private messages?

 

I can totally respect a patient's inquiry into who makes incisions and who places grafts. Some physicians train and allow their techs to stick and place. You act as if I am hoarding some kind of secret, which you know is not true. Dr. Seager and Dr. Lehr are two excellent physicians that I can think of that also allow technicians to make incisions. Are you going to lump these physicians into your group of docs where someone could "do better?" Maybe you will, but there are hundreds of satisfied patients and dozens that have posted their results that will disagree with you.

 

But heaven forbid anyone disagree with Arfy. Yes, we wouldn't want that. Especially if you wish to keep your inbox clear of foul language and pointed conspiracy accusations.

 

-Robert

[Franklin]

I personally would prefer more hands-on time with an actual doctor, not someone who went to Trade School.

 

When I do the research and pick a doctor, I want the doctor I picked to do the important part of my surgery. NOT an assistant!!!

I would agree with Arfy on this one. We all have choices and if someone feels better if doctor does most of the work in the transplant so be it. I like my doc to do all the work.

[Robert_]

Originally posted by Franklin:

I personally would prefer more hands-on time with an actual doctor, not someone who went to Trade School.

 

When I do the research and pick a doctor, I want the doctor I picked to do the important part of my surgery. NOT an assistant!!!

I would agree with Arfy on this one. We all have choices and if someone feels better if doctor does most of the work in the transplant so be it. I like my doc to do all the work.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I never said there was. Arfy will have readers think differently, but anyone interested can go back up and see the reason that I called him a liar.

 

An informed patient is a patient that helps propel the industry forward. The forums exist for the exchange of information. It is my job to make sure that there is moderation and that the exchange is as accurate as possible. Just googling terms like "hair loss" will get you a bunch of lies, deception, and scams. People come here to read true information. If I have to make a judgement call to verify that information is correct then it has to be done.

 

-Robert

[spoon]

I object to Arfy's characterization of surgical assistants.

 

Arfy, why would you trust 'trade school' grads to dissect your donor strip by that rationale? You think having a doctor planting damaged grafts will give you a good result? Think again. The bottom line is that as a patient, you have to trust that the doctor will deliver.

[Gorpy]

Let's cool down guys. Arfy has a good point. Some doctors do rely more on staff than others. That does not necessarily mean that their work is inferior. I along with Arfy would prefer that the surgeon is more "hands on". That is one reason I picked the surgeon I did. Placing of the grafts and making the insisions has its subtle nuances that the surgeon should be involved in. Let's face it, Doctors are doctors for a reason. They went to many years of medical school and had years of training. Both making insisions and placing the grafts is a surgical procedure. I'm sure some staff members are highly trained and skilled and have gained the confidence of the surgeon, but they should never be unsupervised.

 

Thanks for bringing that point up Arfy. I personally want to know that information when choosing a physician.

 

Robert, your point was that Arfy maybe didn't have first hand knowledge of that about Dr. Limmer. That's also a good point. Let's know the facts before we speak. With your access to Doctors, how about adding this information to some of your surgeon reviews.