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Throwing donor site Hairs

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i have 2 questions i do not know the answer

1) is it legal or right for the doctor to throw donor hairs with or without asking the patient? 2) if the doctor get more graft due to a good density of the donor site, should doctor just place them or ask for the patient's permission during the surgery to place more grafts?


#1 HT by Dr. Rahal on 08-21-08

Strip 26.6 cm

Total 4308 grafts

-1116 single grafts

-2287 double grafts

-898 triple grafts

-7 quad grafts

Total Hairs: 8412

Medications:

Minoxidil 5%

Finasteride 1 mg daily

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i have 2 questions i do not know the answer

1) is it legal or right for the doctor to throw donor hairs with or without asking the patient? 2) if the doctor get more graft due to a good density of the donor site, should doctor just place them or ask for the patient's permission during the surgery to place more grafts?


#1 HT by Dr. Rahal on 08-21-08

Strip 26.6 cm

Total 4308 grafts

-1116 single grafts

-2287 double grafts

-898 triple grafts

-7 quad grafts

Total Hairs: 8412

Medications:

Minoxidil 5%

Finasteride 1 mg daily

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Any reputable doctor of sound mind would not throw donor graft out! Crazy-- a lawsuite waiting to happen.

Most just go ahead and implant them free of charge. All my procedures always got more than was quoted.

 

SMOOTHY

Dr. Shapiro

Propecia/Rogaine xtra

Zrii 3oz daily

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omviki,

 

Since you just recently had a hair transplant with Dr. Rahal and are asking these questions publicly, I think it's only right that you explain why you are asking these questions.

 

I got the impression from what you asked me privately that no grafts were discarded and you recieved a great number of grafts for free.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

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got it. i did not about throwing graft is illegal and implanting extra free of charge. i will upload more pictures of pre and post of guys. Excellent work by Dr. Rahal.


#1 HT by Dr. Rahal on 08-21-08

Strip 26.6 cm

Total 4308 grafts

-1116 single grafts

-2287 double grafts

-898 triple grafts

-7 quad grafts

Total Hairs: 8412

Medications:

Minoxidil 5%

Finasteride 1 mg daily

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omviki,

 

After talking with Dr. Rahal, I'm thinking there may have been a miscommunication between you two.

 

Dr. Rahal stated in an email to me that his policy is typically that in the event more grafts are harvested, the patient pays for half and the other half are given for free. Apparently, you received 4300 grafts, 700 of which were free leaving you only 400 extra that you had to pay for. I'd certainly say that's more than reasonable.

 

I trust you will have a stellar result and be ecstatic with the end product.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

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hi Bill

i agree with you. dr. rahal is right for what he has done. According to my experience he is a very nice, talented doctor. Adrian, technicians and teresa has been very caring and helpful.

If i have to go again for 2nd HT I would definitely recommend Dr. Rahal.


#1 HT by Dr. Rahal on 08-21-08

Strip 26.6 cm

Total 4308 grafts

-1116 single grafts

-2287 double grafts

-898 triple grafts

-7 quad grafts

Total Hairs: 8412

Medications:

Minoxidil 5%

Finasteride 1 mg daily

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im sorry let me get this right your saying that if the doc over harvests you have to pay for half and the other half is free, now then what happens if he over harvests and the patient is completely up to budget and cant possibly find anymore money arent hts expensive enough without getting suprised half way through with an extra amount to pay surely if the doctor over harvests this has nothing to do with the patient its totally beyond his control its the doctors fault so what happens if they havent got the money where do the graphts go then? im not having a dig at dr rahal as hes one of the best but this sounds wrong to me if the doc over harvests the graphts should be free or there should be a disclaimer on their website saying extra charges may occur. SORRY IF IVE OFFENDED ANYONE but after saving for 2 years for a ht the last thing potential patients want to hear is that there maybe hidden charges.If ive misunderstood the situation i apolagise and this has no detrement to the rahal team as in my opinion for what its worth they look fantastic!! icon_smile.gif


2 poor very poor UK ht's

2 world class repairs with Shapiro Medical Group

original thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...d.php?t=134995

Dr Paul's procedure http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1710

Dr Ron's procedure

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1128

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I am sure each clinic is different but the way we do this at our clinic is, if the patient pays for 2000 follicular units and 2200 are harvested, they are all implanted and there is not a bill given at the end of the surgery. The exception to this is when a patient requests Dr. Cooley to harvest as much as he is able to and if it is more than the agreed on amount they are willing to pay the additional fee. At no time are grafts discarded.

 

Regards,

Ailene


Ailene Russell, NCMA

Dr. Jerry Cooley's personal assistant and clinical supervisor for Carolina Dermatology Haircenter. My postings are my own opinion and may not reflect Dr. Cooley's opinion on any subject discussed.

 

Dr. Jerry Cooley is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians

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thats the way to do it kudos to your clinic icon_biggrin.gif


2 poor very poor UK ht's

2 world class repairs with Shapiro Medical Group

original thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...d.php?t=134995

Dr Paul's procedure http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1710

Dr Ron's procedure

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1128

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Originally posted by bullitnut:

im sorry let me get this right your saying that if the doc over harvests you have to pay for half and the other half is free, now then what happens if he over harvests and the patient is completely up to budget and cant possibly find anymore money arent hts expensive enough without getting suprised half way through with an extra amount to pay surely if the doctor over harvests this has nothing to do with the patient its totally beyond his control its the doctors fault so what happens if they havent got the money where do the graphts go then? im not having a dig at dr rahal as hes one of the best but this sounds wrong to me if the doc over harvests the graphts should be free or there should be a disclaimer on their website saying extra charges may occur. SORRY IF IVE OFFENDED ANYONE but after saving for 2 years for a ht the last thing potential patients want to hear is that there maybe hidden charges.If ive misunderstood the situation i apolagise and this has no detrement to the rahal team as in my opinion for what its worth they look fantastic!! icon_smile.gif

 

I think you make a very good point Bullit. If the patient can't pay then what happens?

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LOL HA THE BINS GETTING HAIRIER BY THE DAY WAS A NORWOOD 7 WITH A SHINY LID NOW ITS ELVIS HAHA TOO MUCH BEER ME THINKS icon_biggrin.gif


2 poor very poor UK ht's

2 world class repairs with Shapiro Medical Group

original thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...d.php?t=134995

Dr Paul's procedure http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1710

Dr Ron's procedure

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1128

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i think it would be interesting to hear what a few other clinics would do in this situation as its a very helpful aide in the research process every little bit of info helps no matter how small.Before anyone makes a potentialy life changing decision its nice to have ALL the answers and have all bases covered because i would imagine that if some one travelled thousands of miles and didnt have all the money it could be a little embarrasing all round especially if these extra ones were planted


2 poor very poor UK ht's

2 world class repairs with Shapiro Medical Group

original thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...d.php?t=134995

Dr Paul's procedure http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1710

Dr Ron's procedure

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1128

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Each clinic has their own policies. The key is knowing and agreeing to the policies up front, that's it. The issue of "budget" becomes a non-issue, when what to do is discussed and agreed upon up front.

 

In my opinion, Dr. Rahal charging for half of the additional harvested grafts and giving the other half for free is more than reasonable.

 

Some clinics would charge for all the additional grafts while others would give them for free. This is why open dialogue, communication, and understanding of all the policies is completely important before surgery.

 

From my discussion with Dr. Rahal and omviki, they did have a discussion about extra grafts and this policy up front. However, what exactly was said, heard, and what was interpreted can't be fully known. Clearly there is a misunderstanding somewhere.

 

Omviki, as I suggested privately; if you are still concerned about this, please contact Dr. Rahal. But it appears that he did communicate his policy with you in some fashion and how Dr. Rahal handled things and his policy to give you half (or more in this case) of the grafts for free is more than fair.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

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To All-

For the record, at our clinic if the donor yield is greater than the estimated amount, the grafts are placed without further charge to the patient. On the other hand, if we fall short of our anticipated number, we refund the difference to our patient.


Timothy Carman, MD ABHRS

Chairman, Ethics Committee (ABHRS)
ABHRS Board of Directors

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i agree every doctor have their own policies. first of all i am just asking a question. there is nothing wrong about what dr. rahal did about the extra grafts. we both agreed on 3000 grafts plus 200 more if needed. there is no misunderstanding. overall let me say this, if everything is done correctly according to policy then i would say its prefect.


#1 HT by Dr. Rahal on 08-21-08

Strip 26.6 cm

Total 4308 grafts

-1116 single grafts

-2287 double grafts

-898 triple grafts

-7 quad grafts

Total Hairs: 8412

Medications:

Minoxidil 5%

Finasteride 1 mg daily

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Bill if everythings agreed up front then thats fair enough but i still think it would be nice to know for overseas patients before they commit to travelling its therefore ESSENTIAL that this is discussed at initial consult stages cheers for feedback.Kudos doc TC NICE ONE.


2 poor very poor UK ht's

2 world class repairs with Shapiro Medical Group

original thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...d.php?t=134995

Dr Paul's procedure http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1710

Dr Ron's procedure

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1128

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everyone please let me clarify, im not saying theres anything wrong with rahals policy im just simply statinng that people need to know all the facts as early as possible its seems this guy did so everythings cool.


2 poor very poor UK ht's

2 world class repairs with Shapiro Medical Group

original thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...d.php?t=134995

Dr Paul's procedure http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1710

Dr Ron's procedure

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1128

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just read your post again stating that a budget doesnt come into it but thats not true if you agree with a doc/clinic that your are having for eg 4000grafts for ??8000 then you will have to budget for another thousand or so in case the doc overharvests.


2 poor very poor UK ht's

2 world class repairs with Shapiro Medical Group

original thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...d.php?t=134995

Dr Paul's procedure http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1710

Dr Ron's procedure

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1128

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Bullit boy,

 

There is an easy way to counter that problem and that is to go with one of the many surgeons who don't charge anything to plant the extra grafts such as Dr Carmen. I think i remember reading somewhere a while ago that Dr Hasson gave someone around 800 grafts for free, i can't find the link but i don't think i made it up icon_smile.gif

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bullitunt i agree. Bill from now i think, all doctors should have a written policy for extra grafts which every patient must sign before the surgery(no verbal-it can be very confusing), so everseas patients can manage the extra $$ amount. This could be also big factor to short list a doctor. Bill, i am also not saying here what ever happened with me is wrong because extra graft policy was not cleard before the surgery. overall, i choose a top class surgeon and everything went fine. i would recommend dr. rahal.


#1 HT by Dr. Rahal on 08-21-08

Strip 26.6 cm

Total 4308 grafts

-1116 single grafts

-2287 double grafts

-898 triple grafts

-7 quad grafts

Total Hairs: 8412

Medications:

Minoxidil 5%

Finasteride 1 mg daily

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Originally posted by omviki:

bullitunt i agree. Bill from now i think, all doctors should have a written policy for extra grafts which every patient must sign before the surgery(no verbal-it can be very confusing), so everseas patients can manage the extra $$ amount. This could be also big factor to short list a doctor. Bill, i am also not saying here what ever happened with me is wrong because extra graft policy was not cleard before the surgery. overall, i choose a top class surgeon and everything went fine. i would recommend dr. rahal.

 

I could be wrong but I think Dr Rahal's standard paperwork that is signed the day of surgery may have mentioned payment for the extra grafts.


4374 grafts-7/2/2008-Dr Rahal

485 singles

2336 doubles

1526 triples

16 quads

9809 total hairs

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My doctor has the same policy that Dr Carmen stated. My doctor told me upfront that any extra grafts that they get from the donor site would be transplanted free of charge, and if they fall short of the target number, they'll refund me for the shortfall.

 

So I was desperately hoping that my doctor would have something like 500 extra grafts or so icon_smile.gif Anyway, he is a smart dude, and got only about 20 more than the target icon_smile.gif

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bullitnut,

 

I agree that patients should understand all aspects of what they are getting into before surgery. Doctors/clinics should be educating their patients not only about surgery and realistic expectations, but policies also.

 

It appears that there was a misunderstanding in this case.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

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