SorleyBoy

I'm exactly 1 year post-op with Dr Keene. She has done absolute wonders with just 2,650 grafts on a Norwood 5 dome! Although graft density could only be modest (as in your case Midiman) - the overall effect after 12 months (using a little volumising spray) has dispelled both the spectre of encroaching 'baldness' and its insidious effect on one's general well-being and confidence. . . As Dr Keene said - you may well find, as I did, that the 25-30/cm2 density does reduce shock loss to a minimum. I estimated my post-op loss as barely noticeable (but probably 5-10%) . . . You have made an excellent choice in my estimation Midiman. Sorleyboy

Bee I remember this stuff being flogged by cosmetic surgery clinics in the UK through the early 90's - alongside minoxidil when it first became available here. Allegedly the usual raft of 'all natural supplements' - available as pills/shampoo etc. in different strengths - however, in over a decade I never read about anyone in the UK reversing the genetic aspect of hair loss. The testimonials that are touted as part of the advertising blurb for Nourkrin seem to be from females that are either menopausal or who have a hormonal imbalance (childbirth etc.) - and I'm not convinced that 'cures' for female hairloss in the above cases could not simply be the result of natural physiological change through time. Personally, I think the grotesquely expensive product smacks of those tablets you feed to dogs to give them a shiny coat and wet nose . . . seemingly some sort of fish oil! Take care . . .

. . . For what it's worth - and as a temporal comparison - I'm also 5 months post-op and would have to report that for the more 'mature student' (50+) the healing process can be quite prolonged. It must be said that it took all of 5 months to regain total 'normality' at the excision site - so maybe your case is not unique (although you haven't stated your age). I would only be concerned if there has NOT been a progressive improvement through each successive month. Best regards.

Zip Do a search for 'Wellesbourne' using the FIND facility (tabs towards the top left of window) . . . I think that should give you some idea of recent thoughts on the matter. From personal experience, I got the impression that implants do tend to continue growing for a few weeks - until the effects of trauma/reduced blood supply etc. start to register - then the growth halts. Shedding of some or most of the implanted hairshafts then ensues over a period of weeks - the implanted follicles going into a 'rest' phase. Shock loss could also continue for a considerable time. It varies from person to person - depending on age, health, genetic coding . . . and not least, the procedure itself, but you may find that about 3 - 4 months post-op should bring stability to your situation - after which regrowth of implants and the 'shocked' area around the excision would slowly become evident. Best of luck . . . and wishing you every success.

Zara . . . you know what they say about anything that sounds too good to be true! The whole concept reminded me of that hideous 'Medicamat' Omni-graft machine that appeared in 'Questions & Answers' forum sometime early October. I seem to remember the promise that some ghastly 'hand piece' would correctly insert your 'donation' at the correct angle - "without being touched by human hand" (I suspect from that statement, that hands from other life forms could be called upon, after the technician has dozed off?) If this method is better than your surgeon personally positioning and setting every one of your thousands of grafts in a deliberately angled slit that is created to complement your hair growth pattern - then I'll plait soot! Keep reading Zara . . . your future 'quality of life' depends on it. Regards and good luck

Robert - the original grafts (all 80% or so that remained in place) most certainly felt quite 'stubbly' or spikey to the touch for several months (I guess through being healthy originals with at least some discernible shaft diameter). Over recent weeks this sensation has diminished considerably as each hair has started to lengthen - and although there is still only 1/4 - 3/8" of growth evident (at the front at least . . . can't assess the crown yet!) the effect is such that I've been able to kiss goodbye to that F***ing comb-over! If nothing else - now that I am seeing $9,000 worth of surgery come to fruition - the psychological lift that this has engendered would have been cheap at twice the price. Regards . . .

PB . . . Yes, you are about right. Retrospectively, I think the mechanism went something along the lines of a slowly decelerating growth of all implants and a little shedding of a few dozen of them over the first 2 -3 weeks. (I put this down to moderate implant density of only ~25-30 per cm2 which I think minimised capilliary damage). Into the second month the implants had gone into stasis - however shock loss continued at a slow rate for at least a further 2 months. It's only at the 4 - 5 month stage that I have seen both the lengthening 'shadow' of implant growth (particularly looking straight ahead) and the gradual regeneration of the shocked region around the excision area. It has been a lengthy process but what used to be quite 'slick' areas on both crown and frontal regions (2 -3 sprays of Minox used to run straight off!) now feels quite 'wooly'. Regards.

. . . and with my first procedure in July of this year I would say 80% or more stayed in - (they all seem to be slowly growing now). . . so shedding most of the transplanted grafts is by no means a foregone conclusion. Best of luck, Sorleyboy

Jon Since you are a new member . . . best recommendation by a long way is to intensively research these forums until you have a full appreciation of the 'way of the follicle' and the procedures and practitioners worldwide. It's important that you make a measured judgement for yourself, based on all of our collective experience - not necessarily our recommendations (we're all biased!) It's all out there Jon - but you'll have to trawl through it . . . a little research for instance - and you'll very rapidly discover who people are recommending - and that includes DHI. Good luck Jon

Zara . . . With regard to information, I can only restate what this forum used to be good at - and that is to get you to read, read and read again. Spend a few months digesting all the information that's available here - and try to work that in to your ideology of budget, expectations, eventual choice of surgeon (e.g. would you prefer male vs female?) etc. . . . keep asking questions that will enable YOU to make a measured decision - but only when you have ALL the facts. I think there was a young lady from the UK who went by the name of 'Bee' . . . maybe she occasionally logs on. You might do a search for her last mail. Regards

Kez . . . Don't get too upset about this Piglet thing . . . The Councillor was a practicing Muslim anyway - in an area with a substantial Muslim presence. The whole affair has (seemingly) been a cringeworthy embarrasment to Islamics nationwide . . . and it's easy to see why; if you turn the whole thing on it's head, you would piss yourself laughing at what has surely underscored and re-emphasised in the most tragi-comic fashion, the profound unworldliness and incomprehensible intellect of some elements of this sub-culture. . . would you want to be thought of as that stupid by the rest of the population? They have to be pitied . . . but rumour has it that 2,700 'Mecca' Bingo Halls will shortly have to close! Organised religion . . . die !!!

Not sure what you are suggesting here 'Hairbethere'. . . I would have thought 'all' the nerve damage was caused by the cut? . . . I also thought that surgeons have been using disposable chrome alloy steel scalpel blades for decades now . . . not sure what you meant by (antiquated?) blade - Are you suggesting that the $1 disposables are re-used on a succession of patients? - or that there's something wrong with modern blade design? Sorleyboy

. . . A very dangerous assertion 'Specs' - if I may say so! As a 'consultant?' you need to be more careful with sweeping statements like that! . . . In severing cutaneous branches of the scalp nerves, we all hope that the majority of nerves will repair themselves - surely the degree of recovery is a pure lottery for all of us - wouldn't you say? Sorleyboy

. . . Voxo . . . As an old timer (with a more prolonged healing time) - I'm at 3 months post HT and estimate that the top-front (higher graft density) has about 70-80% feeling restored and I also still get some 'over-sensitivity' in a small area of the excision site that had transected some thick scar tissue caused by a childhood injury; this needed extra sutures to close it. I estimate another month and I should be in the clear. Regards,

Nev . . . "Dr Michael May, a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons, . . . leading consultant surgeons specialising solely in precision hair replacement surgery. He has many years of experience in this field and has performed thousands of Micro Hair Replacement procedures. Dr May operates out of Wimpole Street in central London". . . ."Mantis viewing system allows medical technicians to efficiently prepare and manipulate micro and mini hair grafts" . . . "The latest techniques used at the Wimpole Hair Restoration Clinic involves the placing of follicular units, whereby individual hair follicles or groups of two to three follicles are grafted to create a more natural appearance" . . . "The Mantis viewers allow each technician to prepare up to 500 grafts in one sitting with up to three technicians preparing grafts for the patient". Hmmm! . . . looks like a step in the right direction (for the UK) - but how much of a stylist is this GP/MD? I'd want to see several patients who have had work done at least a year back. . . . and then you have the overarching problem with the UK - The Cost! - I find it difficult to imagine you'll be charged the equivalent to $4.50 (??2.55 GBP) per graft from a surgery in Wimpole Street !! Nev, I hope that . . . "I haven't done an enormous amount of research" - doesn't come back to haunt you. Best of luck . . . Sorleyboy ,

Gorpy I was just exchanging PM's with Kez this morning - discussing the self same thing. . . . and yes, I found grafts just kept on growing - but only for a couple of weeks, unfortunately! Beyond that it seems that the follicle growth rate slows dramatically and goes into stasis with the vast majority of implants (~85-90%) remaining firmly in place, but without going into the shedding phase. Kez experienced this phenomena and he estimated that his HT went into suspended state for the best part of six months . . . and then slowly bloomed to maturity beyond that. I have a bit of a theory about this inasmuch as both Kez and I had a moderate density of implants and I think that this has effectively minimised damage to the surrounding implant tissue, allowing them to maintain at least some 'life' and hindering the catagenic stage of the hair shedding phase. Another crucial factor I presume must be those surgeons who can work with the smallest recipient slit size - again minimising damage to blood capilliaries. All things considered, I don't see that there is much advantage in failure to shed implanted hair shafts other than you can maintain at least some vestige of spiky fuzz while you are waiting for the healing process to go to completion and each hair to go back into the remainder of its alloted anagen 'growth' phase (hopefully in less time than Kez experienced . . . ?!o) Interesting times . . . and now my friend, we know that we'll surely get there. . . Three cheers for the girls (and boys) at "Dr. Keene's Beauty without Cruelty Emporium" . . . Hurrrahh!

. . . "Medicamat" . . . Ah! - I've got it now . . . It's an anagram for 'Maimed cat' (which is what I assume you'll be if you are captured by one) Looks and sounds utterly hideous . . . "nothing touched by human hand" it says - I presume there's a low paid, bored technician sat at the other end of this prosthetic, robotic 'hand piece' then? . . . ensuring that every graft is put in at the 'correct' (same?) angle - OK I suppose if you want to look like you've been sat under a Van der Graaf Generator . . . or perhaps you were created by a machine in the first place . . . one that puts hair in dolls heads! (or have we already done that one a few years back?)

Bee Hello there. Let me put your mind at rest w.r.t. travel. . . . after just a couple of days post-op you will be perfectly fit to get the plane home. (I'd be interested to know what folks see as their biggest physioligical fear with this long distance travel business . . . pain, haemorrhage, blackout - grafts popping out like porcupine quills with the cabin pressure?). I'd have to admit, going back to see the HT surgeon is probably impractical from the UK and in this respect you are making that leap of faith based on the experience of other people. The surgeon you choose will be available to talk to you of course, but still wouldn't be able to wave a magic wand should you suffer shock loss to some degree. It's probably best to prepare for this event happening but bear in mind that it's likely to be worst at the periphery of the excision site - and that won't be seen anyway. Posts on this forum suggest that shock loss at the recipient site is quite variable and would seem to depend on, amongst other things: - i) pre-existing loss rate, ii) percieved loss as a function of existing hair quality, iii) density of graft implants (i.e. trauma to existing follicles). There will be other factors, but you get the idea that it's a bit of a black art trying to predict how the visible shock loss will manifest itself. I'd be inclined to have a good discussion with the surgeon before booking the procedure; in my case I was determined that the 'finished article' would far outweigh any shorter term disadvantages (that has to be your holy grail?) In terms of travel costs I can only advise you to book everything via the internet. Start with Yahoo, Expedia.com etc. (both do customer reviews) and do a thorough search . . . i) travel in the low season or take a package holiday flight to a US holiday destination and then fly on if necessary via an internal flight (again, inexpensive in the USA) ii) If time is a factor - choose the nearest US State to Europe (probably cheaper flights anyway e.g. New York return approx. ??199 - 250) iii) A half decent hotel/motel booked on-line can be had for ~$50-60 iv) Use ground transportation (buses) wherever possible (e.g. airport to hotel, hotel to clinic etc) . . . ~$2 per single journey (taxis ~$2-3 per mile) Travel light - and don't forget your travel insurance. If you are going to the USA, make a short holiday of it. Give yourself a day or two before the procedure then have a decent spell afterwards to enjoy yourself. You'll probably find that you've had a massive psychological lift anyway, so you'll be less inclined to 'worry' about your appearance. (Of no relevance to your circumstances of course, but to give you my particular experience - I was back in Las Vegas 48 hrs post-procedure and out in the 10 billion light bulb 'Fremont Street Experience' . . . hatless . . . still showing some of that purplish discolouration at the stubbly recipient site, and you know what! . . . no one even noticed . . . and I felt free of that nagging disfiguration for the first time in 20 years. Best of luck Bee . . . Sorleyboy

Gorpy It's interesting that you should mention dispensing with pain pills etc. . . I binned mine after a couple of days post-op with Dr. Keene - and my swelling was also virtually non-existent. In fact the only routine that I needed to persevere with was the inexpensive W*lg***ns contact lens solution for graft cleaning that the clinic recommended (seemed to help primarily with relieving the 'tightness' sensation over the first week or so - beyond which a daily shampoo seemed to eliminate that anyway). You mentioned that you'd seen little shedding so far (early days yet however) - but nonetheless can you imagine going ten weeks without losing any more than about 10-15% of the 2,600 grafts! (and that's a generous estimation of a barely noticable loss through washing or contact with pillows etc.) . . . I don't know whether it's a function of having just a fairly moderate graft density but the top and front of my head still feels like it has most of the short stubbly implants still firmly in place . . . whatever next I wonder? . . . will they eventually shed . . . or start growing? I'll keep you posted . . . Sorleyboy

Gorpy Congratulations on what sounds like a very positive experience for you . . . Your testimony reinforces my main criterion for visiting Dr Keene in the first place: A 2,700 graft procedure makes for a very long day for any surgeon who, one would hope and expect, to be in attendance throughout the whole implant procedure (in your case and mine, probably in excess of 6-7 hours of dedicated concentration devoted almost entirely to graft placement). Before chosing a surgeon I had noted that the vast majority of HT practitioners were male . . . and not doing a very good job in worldwide terms (if this network is anything to go by!) - and I chanced upon this study abstract, originally conducted by the University of Surrey in the UK. . . "[between men and women] The only evidence for biological differences in intellectual ability indicates that women are generally better at tests of perceptual speed, memory, verbal ability, precision tasks and mathematical calculation while men are better at visual-spatial tasks (the ability to visualize and mentally manipulate two and three-dimensional figures), at ??target-directed motor skills such as guiding and intercepting projectiles', at so called ??disembedding' tests ( finding a hidden shape in a complex drawing ) and at mathematical reasoning. (Kimura, 1992) . . . In terms of perceptual motor skills and completion of precision tasks the choice for me was clear . . . I needed a female to undertake the prolonged procedure. (There are many examples throughout modern history that show the ladies to be par excellence in this field - everything from embroidering colossal tapestries to turning out millions of tons of munitions and shipping throughout WW. I & II - all highly skilled, precision tasks) . . . It's not all bad news for the 'target directed motor skill' type guys I suppose . . . you don't get many female guitarists! Sorleyboy

. . . Spoken like a true Bronze Age warrior !

Western Star . . . I'm almost the same age as you and I think I could re-echo what has already been inferred from each of the above replies. My 'hairline and pattern of loss' had stabilised and become established from around the age of 50-52 - without getting appreciably worse over the last 3 years or so - and indeed the actual daily hair loss count (bathtub, shower, comb etc.) is very minimal (which you would expect - having less than half the hair coverage that I had 25 years ago!)- However . . . Looking at my aged parents, who are now in their mid 80's I would have to say that in my case (and this seems to hold good from what I've observed of many senior citizens) - I can expect hair growth to continue to slow, with perhaps (or even probably) a gradual atrophy of the follicles through each growth cycle, such that the hair will progressively thin rather than recede any further. I think it's a truism of this dilemma that we are all in, that the quest for social acceptance through a good head of hair is primarily a young man's anguish - and that 'getting' old' will, for everyone on this network be the 'sting in the tail' - as ones slowly thinning tresses become less adequate to the task of even hiding the scars. . . . but may good fortune be with you . . . Sorleyboy

Initially I tried an enormous chef's hat pulled down to the chin - but then having been mistaken one night for a sneak-thief, I swapped that for a whicker rubbish basket. After a few days I found that a large paper bag was more comfortable - and less aggressive on the crown area implants . . . After a couple of weeks you'll find that by pressing your back up against buildings and using your hands to feel your way forward, you can slither round the streets without showing anyone the back of your head. . . . worked for me! Sorleyboy

Spurs person (Boooo! . . . Come on Boro!) . . . Did you not ask this question before - in April? Any search engine will give you a mass of information on where to buy generic finasteride, propecia etc. in the UK. without a prescription, although I (and the suppliers)would advise you read the small print with regard to prescription protocol and at least having a working relationship with your GP - if only for your own sake. Give it a try - the information is out there in abundance . . . and you've vacillated for nearly 6 months now! - tsk!-tsk! Good hunting . . . Sorleyboy

sac . . . Yes, as was suggested earlier by arfy & co. - I see now from the doc's web-site that he does this anachronistic mix of Mini & micro-grafts For the minor procedures the prices seem exhorbitant for what I can only assume will be very little density: - . . . "For very small sessions of micro and Minigrafts, the cost is $13.00 a graft this would be for sessions under 200 grafts. Next in price would be an intermediate session. This would cover from about mid ear to the front and would range approximately 200-300 grafts. The cost is $2600.00 per session. The next level would be a major session which would extend farther back into the crown and include the front. The cost for this is $3600.00 per session. If the area is very wide and requires more than 600 grafts, the additional grafts are charged at $4.00 per graft". OUCH !!