L'Anonyme

C'mon, another "new" Armani patient who wants to post all the same pics we've seen before that the clinic supposedly sent him? And now he wants to post them all for us just 'cause? Wasn't it just one of their consultants a few weeks ago who supposedly couldn't get permission from the Armani clinic to post FUE results? It's pretty annoying, these attempts to reestablish a presence here.

"Mankind", no offense taken whatsoever, my friend, and sorry I haven't gotten to your private message yet. I'll answer your questions here if that's OK. The scar problem was not noticeable at all; we're talking maybe half an inch at most where a subcuteous stitch came to the surface about 2 months after the first procedure and no hair grew through the scar, which was a little wider than the rest of the line. The scar is much better now, though I still don't see hair growing through it in certain places--that's not abnormal, though, with trichophytic closures. I do think I looked better after the first procedure, but the work obviously wasn't complete. Had I only done the one procedure I wouldn't have been happy with the result. It's kind of like the proper area had been outlined for the most part, but there was still a lot of shading to do, and the number of 2-hair grafts was an indication to me that something had gone wrong. I _was_ charged for the second procedure but received 200 grafts free b/c of the growth problems from #1. I'd estimate that at least that many didn't grow, but obviously it's impossible to quantify at this point. Given a procedure of only 1150 grafts, however, those aren't great numbers. Add to that fact that I was the only case for the day (Dr. True routinely does two a day), and it's my opinion that I didn't exactly receive T/D's best work on that day. If you want to be happy with a one-and-done kind of approach, you need to research and find somebody who can do really dense packing and only needs to go over an area of scalp once before addressing other areas with subsequent procedures (should you need them).

Since most people can only seem to bitch about the quality of my pics instead of commenting on or inquiring about the specifics of my case, let me just clarify for "mankind" that yes, I think the results of my first procedure were disappointing. Too many 2-hair grafts in the hairline (aren't any too many?), a stitch that didn't get taken out on the far right side of the scar which created a small imperfection, and some poor growth on the right side and central portion of the hairline. These problems were addressed in the second session--the 2-hair grafts were FUE'd out, the scar revised, and grafts added. Things have turned out well now that it's almost a year later, but there were problems along the way. Not all of these cases are homeruns, but I will say that True/Dorin was attentive and responsive to my concerns. If "mankind" feels any sense of doubt about a doctor he is considering for whatever reason, I'd recommend that he look hard and keep researching until he finds someone he feels comfortable with.

I find that statement about Feller very hard to believe and would like to hear more about it. If anyone would stand behind his work, it would be him.

Ha, thanks notgoing. Maybe I'll break up the horrorshow aesthetic soon w/ some color shots, but the last few I think are bright enough to show how the hairline has developed and matured.

11 MONTH PHOTOS UPDATED. See last four in the gallery.

If he's already in need of a transplant at 22, he will surely lose more hair. It also needs to be said again that hairloss does not stabilize in your 20s. Just because Propecia has worked for a few years does not mean that it will do so for decades, and that goes for the 30 and up crowd as well. But if you've ever heard the typical Armani patient speak or write, you know that you're dealing with a highly impressionable demographic that parrots whatever the clinic has to say about things. Some of these guys have apparently never taken a science or critical thinking course in their lives. At least Armani has finally released an actual name of one of these other doctors. It's taken years of badgering by posters for them even to disclose that, but in my opinion a chain full of this kind of work will sink the whole enterprise fast. There's only so much damage control and promising of free touch-ups that Shane can do in a day....

"So, in closing, hair transplantation has to be individualized for each patient, as they are individuals." Doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it.... And she's not even sure which patient is being referred to? Even with artificially constructed 3-hair grafts, I'm afraid you'll still be able to, as Dr. Feller once put it, drive a truck through the spaces between those recipient sites.

I, too, applaud Bill's consistent fairness and the need for an appearance of open-mindedness to be maintained in this case, but I fail to understand how Martinick's defense of this work could be considered "compelling" if Bill still maintains "100% skepticism". I can't imagine any other doctor coming to the defense of the placement of these recipient sites. And on an unrelated note, I think it must be said again, mrphoenix, that there are no foods that "cause hair loss" or promote hair growth. Unless severe malnourishment is the case, diet has nothing to do with hair loss....

"Perhaps she feels that while this pattern does not look natural immediately post op it will when it grows out." I credit Pat for being exceedingly diplomatic and optimistic on this one, but in my opinion anybody who knows what they're looking at would consider this work disastrous. jagdish anyone? i would also ask how jojojo1 could find this to be great work without being a shill for Martinick. I, too, hope this grows out to be better than it looks.

God, you really are proposing the worst of the worst there. Let me make this easy: stay away from Bosley, MHR, and especially from Kassmir. Focus your NYC research on True, Dorin, Bernstein, and Feller. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble and heartache. ONLY consider going to a private practice, not a chain group.

I don't think your reasoning about "stars" is very sound. Which stars has he done? Do you know? Of course not. Nobody does. You're making assumptions about the quality of his work based merely on his address. Don't worry about Hollywood and start thinking about what your particular case demands. If you're a NW4-5 at your age, I don't think FUE is the way to go. Nobody is doing big FUE session sizes with results as impressive as strip for the number of grafts you'll need. The Armani clinic claims to, but they're a whole other can of worms. I've never seen a Rassman FUE result on a higher level Norwood. My hunch is that since he's a very ethical doctor, he wouldn't even consider doing FUE on you.

stratman, If I were you I would even try to get the deposit back. I know all these doctors give us the "nonrefundable deposit" routine when booking procedures, but if you're not using their services, why should they be allowed to keep your money? You put down your money to reserve a date, they've kept the deposit in the interim and probably earned interest off of it, and now they're no longer offering the service (strip) that you had contracted for. Too bad for them. You can't purchase what you want from them even if you were willing to go through with it now. On top of which, Armani is giving you some excuse about strip "complications" that sounds like total b*llshit. If there are complications, why are they still doing surgeries up until October 1st? I would insist that they give you your money back lest they receive any more negative publicity from your case. And it sounds like they're inventing criteria on the spot about you having to book a full session in order for your deposit to be honored. If you charged the deposit, why not issue a chargeback? I don't think Armani's reasoning on this issue, or on many other issues (as other posters have already discussed) adds up.

"rear seam" -- now that's an interesting euphemism for donor closure i've never heard before. i like it....

Hair to Style, While I admire your enthusiasm, you're in no position to say "That much is sure" at 9 days post-op. Sure people want to read as much as they can about certain doctors, but without corroborating pics or anything substantive being conveyed besides "He's a great doctor! Really!", we shouldn't be taking people's word for it. And Bill, now that you mention your suspicions, I have to say I had the same thoughts about mrjb over a year ago. He wouldn't (and still doesn't) post any pics, and when I went back and researched the history of his posts last summer, he initially seemed to pop up every time Dr. True's name was mentioned to say how great his surgery went. He's since evolved into a more active poster, so maybe Hair to Style will prove his bona fides eventually and stop sounding like a broken record. But the reluctance to show results is still suspicious to me, and that includes both mrjb and Hair to Style.

Bill, I think you've seen the pics before but just don't remember. Do a search for "1150 grafts" and my thread with all pics should turn up first in the results. Some of the pics are a little dark as you pointed out to me a few months ago, but you should still be able to see what I'm talking about. I hope to post more and better pics as things progress.

I can testify to the fact that Dr. True's instrumentation had become more refined between my first procedure (1150 grafts) in May '06 and my second (1156 grafts) in March '07 b/c he told me he was using different custom blades the second time around than he had used the first. This would mean not only that his current techniques are better than those used on Bill, but that they're better than the ones he used on me initially. How precisely the blades differed I can't elaborate on, but as the techs were cutting my grafts, Dr. True determined that my 1-hair grafts needed a .8-mm blade. My understanding was that the size of the 1-hair graft recipient incisions was dependent on the size of my 1-hair grafts or follicles; in other words, it isn't a one-size-fits-all proposition. Another person's 1-hair grafts may have necessitated a .7-mm recipient site, or a .9-mm recipient site. I think the ability to go down to a .6-mm blade is important but doesn't apply to a lot of patients unless they have very fine hair. Dr. True said he might use something that small for an eyelash, for example. That being said, the projected density for the 1st session was 40-50 FU/cm2; I still had a lot of native hair, so Dr. True's more incremental approach suited me and I liked his hairlines. I agree with B-Spot that a more conservative approach may not have been good for me if I had needed many thousands of grafts, and I'm not sure I would've gone to Dr. True in that case given all the research I've done up to this point. Even in retrospect, the initial 1150 didn't seem like enough and only about a third of my hairline turned out well after a first pass. I highly doubt that the 40-50 FU/cm2 goal was met, at least in the middle and on the right side of my hairline. Four months out from a second pass, I see in retrospect that I was more disappointed with it than I was willing to admit earlier in the year, probably because I was trying not to let the emotional rollercoaster get the better of me. That being said, the result is still in progress, so it's too early to say anything about pass #2 or how things will look in another 8 to 12 months. Dr. True went dense enough in the inadequate parts of the hairline that I did suffer some shock the second time around, but that seems to be growing back now. I will note that I can't recall seeing _any_ one pass Dr. True hairlines that I've liked; his impressive, denser examples were all built up over multiple sessions, so I think Hasson and Feller, for example, differ in that respect as far as dense packing is concerned. In my case, such dense packing may have threatened more of my native hair, so a gradual approach probably suited me better.

This thought has occurred to me in passing a few times, but Bill's post on refinement of techniques yesterday reminded me of it. Given the extreme level of knowledge and investment of time exhibited by some of our veteran laymen posters here, has anyone thought about wanting to become a hair transplant surgeon themselves? Will we one day be pointing people to check out the work of Dr. Bill or Dr. Bspot, for example? Or Dr. Tillman? Just wondered if anyone's experience with hair loss has led them to consider a medical career in a way they hadn't before....

This thought has occurred to me in passing a few times, but Bill's post on refinement of techniques yesterday reminded me of it. Given the extreme level of knowledge and investment of time exhibited by some of our veteran laymen posters here, has anyone thought about wanting to become a hair transplant surgeon themselves? Will we one day be pointing people to check out the work of Dr. Bill or Dr. Bspot, for example? Or Dr. Tillman? Just wondered if anyone's experience with hair loss has led them to consider a medical career in a way they hadn't before....

Hairme, Thanks for your very thoughtful responses. I think Nervous said it best--you've obviously given this a lot of thought, and I hope it all works out for you (and that you're right about an imminent cure!).... Just out of curiosity, does Armani use densitometry to assess your actual donor density before the transplant? I ask this b/c you said you had thick donor hair, but sometimes appearances can be deceiving (not implying that's true in your case). Someone like londonlad, for example, appeared to have a very poor donor but his densities ended up being off the charts (130-150 FU/cm2). I know a lot of doctors just inspect the donor by sight and don't know actual densities until they cut you open. How does Armani determine these donor estimates? Thanatopsis, I think people are referring to body dysmorphic disorder (BDD).

OK, here's are some questions--do you believe what your doctor has to say about your donor reserves? Or were you willing to overlook the hype because of the pictures you saw of other guys on the Web? My sarcasm has a point which all of the thin-skinned Armani kids are always glossing over: why is hope and sincere belief about what you hope will happen in the future part of your master plan? More than likely you've already used up half of your donor on a head that shouldn't have been transplanted in the first place.

"I truly believe by the time I will have some serious balding (around 10 years if like dad and grandads) there will be a cure." LOL... I hope so, for your sake. But wait, you have 15,000 available FUE grafts, right?

If you've already lost 95% of the hair you're going to lose and are nearly entirely bald, then the aggressive Armani hairline approach is definitely not for you. I believe what Bill meant to say was, "Do NOT start out with an aggressive hairline if you are a NW6." And take anything Armani tells you about total donor reserves with a massive grain of salt. It's my opinion that that clinic is basically bullshitting its way to all FUE, top-dollar surgeries now, and by the time people run out of their real (rather than promised) donor reserves, Armani will be retired and untouchable. You realize that this is someone who legally changed his name to "Armani" in Canada pretty much for marketing purposes? And is opening a new clinic in Dubai in a building that has a (Giorgio) Armani hotel on the top floor, hoping, I guess, that people will associate or confuse the two? Don't believe everything that's presented to you as scientific fact unless you can corroborate it with the experiences and testimony of other leading clinics.

@ MRJB -- just wanted to note that Dr. True has done 4000+ FU sessions, but I agree w/ you that his approach is more conservative and incremental. Good luck, scooter, and looking forward to watching your progress.

Thanks, Bill. I'll try to put up more pics in better lighting, but as I said before, you can tell what's amiss from what's up already. As for the poor growth, I think you answered the question -- bad handling, lack of quality control, whatever you wanna call it; that's the only thing it could be in my opinion.