hair4tomo

Curious about this case, but no replies. Is it as simple as counting the black dots to ascertain the grafts implanted?

Sounds good. Do you mean the Hasson & Wong clinic in general when you say Dr Wong?

I researched for many hours who would be the best surgeon to help with my crown some years back, only to find that I wasn't really a suitable candidate to have a hair transplant, due to not being on finasteride at the time. That's changed now, and I am suitable, but now my old research is outdated. So I am on the hunt again: Who are the best surgeons to help with the crown? I don't need perfect results, but something more conservative in case my head decides to stop responding to fin in future. I see very few crown results in general, so if it's allowed, links to other sites where I can check out the final photo results for various surgeons would be appreciated. Is there supposed to be a Spanish forum with a lot of photos? I'm also looking to restore my temples and even hairline to a degree, but I'm focusing on my crown for now. Maybe I should arrange separate appointments for the temples and hairline due to reducing potential shock to my donor hair if I have it all done at once? Finally, Is Lorenzo still up or near the top when it comes to the crown these days?

A few questions about your data: 1: What do the light grey rows mean vs the black ones in your 15 row table? 2: Also you have 15 surgeons in the table, but only 9 graphs. Can you give us the other 6 graphs please? There's a couple of people I'd like to see in more detail.

I wonder if anyone here has any insight as to which out of the red and blue study is more reliable. They differ greatly on for example, the 0.05mg dosage where the red study has 31% DHT serum reduction and the blue study has a larger 50% DHT serum reduction. If anything, I'd expect them to be swapped round, since the red study lasted 12 months, whilst the blue was only 42 days. What gives?

Of course: Effects of a novel finasteride 0.25% topical solution on scalp and serum dihydrotestosterone in healthy men with androgenetic alopecia (page 23) Clinical dose ranging studies with finasteride, a type 2 5cz-reductase inhibitor, in men with male pattern hair loss The effects of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgen levels in men with androgenetic alopecia You may need to create a throwaway email account to access the latter two studies. Here's alternatives for the 2nd and 3rd that another user gave: https://booksc.xyz/book/17840978/d696b4 https://booksc.xyz/book/17840977/b2aead If anyone just wants the abstracts, then these will do immediately: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26636418/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10495375/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10495374/

Posted this on another popular forum, so though I'd post here too. Here's the graph - enjoy! BACKGROUND: Many of you will be familiar with this old graph showing DHT inhibition from various microdoses of finasteride. You may even be using that data to help you choose which microdose of finasteride to take in an attempt at minimizing the chance of side effects. Turns out it was derived from the study: "Clinical dose ranging studies with finasteride, a type 2 5cz-reductase inhibitor, in men with male pattern hair loss". However, as far as I can see, the graph isn't actually displayed in the original study. Someone created the graph from just the numbers that the study reported. Anyway, the home-brew graph contains a number of limitations, so I've improved upon it in the following ways: - Instead of using just one study, mine uses three, one of which is topical. That's all of the range dosing studies as far as I know! They are colour coded everywhere in the image for clarity. The old graph is represented in my new graph as the red solid (not dotted) curve. - The graph display range has been adjusted from 0-5mg to 0-1mg. This helps make it a lot easier to see the much smaller microdoses, even around 0.05mg. - I give the ORIGINAL data points (as shown by the diamond/circle/X points and x/y labels). Needless to say, everything else is derived and only an approximation, so should be treated with caution! - Accuracy is better in the new one. The old one has a figure of 25% DHT inhibition for 1/16th mg dosage. I think the true figure is more like 37% as shown in the new graph. - I also give (where applicable) the DHT percentage reduced not just in the serum, but also the scalp, and also show a curve reporting the number of hairs grown back (or lost) - see the dashed red curve. - Finally, the studies I used are listed, and I stated the number of days / months before a DHT measurement is taken. As more microdosing studies come in (topical or oral), I look forward to updating the graph further. Here's the new graph again: https://archive.is/OGDk3

Do you have more info on this? How evenly distributed is the active ingredient? I've heard the reverse, that it is smoothly distributed through the pill. Maybe someone else can help confirm what you're saying. As for powder, mot much as you can see from the photos, and I'd do a ton of pills at once, and just clear up any debris afterwards making it a quick and efficient job.

There's very little research done with topical fin in comparison to oral fin, especially at around the 0.2mg dose mark. And around that level, you need to dilute it with ethanol or something (is water acceptable?), and store it with risk of the substance potentially degrading over time. Then there's the inconvenience of applying it, since it'd need to be over quite a wide area. Will it smell? Obviously we want it to be socially acceptable. Finally, I know of very few places in the UK where I can purchase topical fin, and I'm not sure I'd be able to trust the source. I'd be happy with one or two of these drawbacks, but in combination, they compound. Maybe I can get the topical fin validated by a third party chemist or something for a fee?

I think there's something about the shape with the dog claw cutter (curved edge to follow the pill's contour, meeting edges, 30 degree edge taper, and of course extra sharp) that really helps to pin the accuracy down. Also thanks to the strong spring on the pair I have, there's a hefty weight to the squeeze action which helps to get a lot of force applied to only a tiny amount of 'squeezing distance'. Lots of torque! Here's a photo. This was my first attempt cutting Propecia 1mg. I'm sure with practise I could do better. The four bits at the top of the photo are eighths, and the ones below are sixteenths. Yeah, the 16ths were definitely trickier to cut (made a bit of a mess there), but I did a very good job of the eighths. I kept all fine crushed dust/bits in the shot so you can see how much was wasted too: Thing is, even the 16ths are inaccurate, it all averages out over the week. So if you take slightly over a 1/16th one day, and slightly under 1/16th the next day, you'll get about the right amount. When you think about it, taking an 1/8th EOD is sort of like super inaccurate cutting of an 1/8th where by you cut the 1/8th to make 16ths so badly that it remains the full eighth for one day, and zero the next day. So slightly inaccurate 16ths won't be any less effective than that. ------------------------------------------------------ EDIT: I tried to cut the remaining 1/8th pieces also into sixteenths. Overall, I think a did a pretty good job for first go:

1/8th and 1/16ths is pretty easy to cut if you have a pair of dog claw clippers. They cut cleanly, and without the tablet flying across the room (unlike cutting with say a stanley/carpet knife).

1/4th of a milligram seems to be quite popular for many looking to fight MPB who want to play it cautious with sides, but according to the DHT inhibition curve (https://archive.is/SP2n3), 1/8th or even 1/16th milligram looks as though it could be doable, especially if most of the DHT inhibition is in the scalp and not in the serum/plasma, or if the hair responds more sensitively to DHT than the rest of the body. Have any of you had much luck taking such small microdoses? Perhaps at least maintaining your hair without any significant sides? I'm looking to start myself.

If going the roller route, my advice would be to go for a derma roller with a relatively small number of needles. With a width of around 2cm, my old roller had 720 needles. This is bad for two reasons: a: It gets tangled up in the hair much more easily as you roll over it. b: More importantly, it's really REALLY hard to get the needles to go all the way into the scalp. I tried pressing very hard (even with 1mm needles), and succeeded with almost brute force (even more than the pain, it felt 'squelchy' too which was horrible). This makes it impractical to realize the full effect, since you do NOT want to use that kind of pressure for a small, let alone large area of your scalp. Afterwards, I went for one about the same size (just under 2cm width), but with just 192 needles instead of 720. MUCH better. You may need to roll a few more times, but at least the needles actually penetrate (and FWIW, it felt less 'squelchy' too).

That caught me off guard. Thanks for questioning one of my core assumptions. Indeed, I'm not so sure after all, despite the somewhat intuitive idea that more blood in and around the hair follicle will provide it nutrients. According to this paper, there are theoretically three mechanisms to prevent hair loss via microneedling: Release of platelet derived growth factor, epidermal growth factors are increased through platelet activation and skin wound regeneration mechanism Activation of stem cells in the hair bulge area under wound healing conditions which is caused by a dermaroller Overexpression of hair growth related genes vascular endothelial growth factor, B catenin, Wnt3a, and Wnt10 b. None of them mention inflammation. I think it's a combination of things that made think it. Hearing it online, and in that paper, how the technique they used for the subjects is to use dermaroller until mild erythema (reddending) is noticed.

Microneedling is used partially to help inflame the scalp so that blood can more easily reach the area to help the hair grow/regrow. But for many, it only lasts a few hours before the inflammation calms down and it looks normal again. So I was thinking, something like using a scouring pad (or even fine-grit sandpaper) to scour the area and 'redden' just the surface layers of scalp skin for a day or two. Could that work in helping blood stay in the area longer? Has any research been done in this area?

Do you have a link to that Indian study? EDIT: Looks like it's one of the below? The basic premise for both is that a dermaroller with 1.5mm needles were used horizontally, vertically and both diagonals until mild erythema (reddening) was noted. This was done weekly (or mostly fortnightly for one of the two studies). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4458936/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

Has anyone tried Redensyl? It's supposed to be an alternative to Minoxidil, and is used as a topical spray. It seems to produce promising results (much better than Min), but unfortunately, I'm not 100% sure if the research on it is genuine. I found this one but that's from a company website, and this article, though initially authoritative looking, is from the Omicsonline, which is a "predatory publisher" according to Wikipedia.

Cheers for the info. I managed to find some good alcohol wipes on Amazon (100 for £2). Any thoughts on using the alcohol pad before the saline spray (prior to or after rolling), or does it not matter? Also maybe missing out the saline spray altogether? I found saline spray on Amazon, but I think it's mostly meant for the nose? E.g: https://www.amazon.co.uk/NeilMed-nm-reg-enu-us-NasaMist-Saline-Spray/dp/B000ITMKQ0

Thanks. Any need for scalp sterilization before with alcohol or after with cream/moisterizer? Also question number 7 if you know that.

Can you find that poll please? Thanks for your insights by the way. Does anyone here think most of the votes from here and on Reddit were taking just 1mg per day? How many do you think were taking just 0.5mg or even 5mg per day? I'm worried that might have a big impact on the accuracy of the poll. Here's an update on the Reddit poll. I expect I'll get no more entrants from this point as the topic's gone off the page:

Thinking of getting this derma roller from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/SEEYC-Titanium-Rollers-，Silicone-Disinfecting/dp/B07GCZVQ4B - is it suitable in helping to maintain or even thicken hair density? I'm male, and looking at applying it to my thinning temples and Norwood 3 hair. A derma pen also sounds good, but it much more expensive, and there are fewer reviews, plus I want to trial it out. A few questions: 1: Do any here have before and after pictures to see if their hair density has stabilized or even thickened? 2: I'll probably start off with the 0.5mm, then probably move on to the 1mm and MAYBE 1.5mm if I'm feeling really brave. Do the needles need to fully penetrate the scalp to their maximum length? Have any studies compared different mm lengths? 3: For 1mm, Is treatment once a fortnight sufficient? This site says it shouldn't be more frequent than once every 10 days. The following questions assume 1mm treatment: 4: Should I disinfect my scalp with 70% alcohol before treatment? The aforementioned site says you do need to, but that may not be for the scalp. I'd rather just wash my hair beforehand thoroughly. 5: Should I use any cream after treatment? Can I rinse with water after treatment? 6: Do I go over even the vaguely thinning patches of my hair, or just over the moderately to very thin patches? 7: Do I roll over the same patch just once, or 4-16 times using different directions? Diagonals too, or just horizontal/vertically? 8: Do I need to moisturize my scalp for hours or days after treatment? 9: Do I have to be wary about going out in the sun for some days after treatment? That aforementioned site said "If you’re planning on using 1.0 mm needles or anything longer, then you really need to avoid excessive sun exposure a week before rolling, and two weeks post treatment.". 10: Looking to use it in combination with Minoxidil. Is it okay to wait 24 hours after microneedling before applying Minoxidil to the 1mm treated areas?

You're absolutely right. And if you have a look at the image in my previous reply, you'll see that's the fourth option (only added for the Reddit poll). I regret not adding that option for the main poll here.

You did the best with the information you had at the time. I just created the same poll on another forum (Reddit), and the results (so far, been about 12 hours) look a lot more optimistic than in this forum: So to be honest, I've even had second thoughts about taking the medication after all. Like Lenney and Bonkling say, the type of people who visit this forum may be more likely to have had problems with Fin. Whilst your point is theoretically sound, I might disagree because the poll results I collected from the other forum (see image above) are much less pessimistic. They each took the time to vote too, yet the vast majority have no perceivable side effects. Very good point. Thanks also for linking that knee study! The placebo effect is a powerful thing. I think more research is needed to use only the power of the mind to help heal certain conditions, especially those involving pain. People you know in real life, or on the internet? Did you know these people before they were even considering Fin?

Sorry to hear. Is the pain permanently there, or just sometimes? I know we've only had 13 poll entries, but I'm surprised at the results to be honest. The information leaflets by the chemist showed studies that indicated only around 1-5% of people would suffer side effects (However, they also gave "unknown" for a couple of things like depression). Looking at this thread however, you'd think it was just a coin toss in terms of Finasteride side effects! Really disappointed - I think I'll skip Finasteride for now, at least until I see more studies. Is there something safer than Finasteride to pause hair loss? I've heard Minoxidil can add around 20% of hair density, but the hair loss slide still happens (and if you come off it, it's as if you never took it at all).

Good to hear hairnma22 that you're improving. What made you discontinue Finasteride in the first place? The brain fog/depression stuff concerns me even more than the libido stuff to be honest. Has a poll like this before conducted before on these forums?